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sesh
Sep 14, 2005, 7:50 AM
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OK, I'm asking this question because it suddenly occurred to me that maybe not too many people do. I live in an area where all rocks in a 100 mile radius are strictly NO BOLTS, so either you trad lead or you top rope (you could solo, I guess, but that's not for me). So poor little me with a pitiful rack and no trad experience - well, you can see why I'm mostly on TR. But I'm keen to learn and whenever I get the chance to climb with a more experienced guy than myself, I jump at the opportunity (I've also lead some routes on my own, but it's just a little bit freaky). The problem is, none of these hot-shot climbers ever seems to trad. A few weeks ago I went out with this French guy who's got a big rack and lots of Alpine experience and I was all keen to try some routes, but he said he'd prefer to TR! Several other climbers around here too seem to want to TR. So I was wondering - is this a general phenomenon? Do people like to talk big about trad and then TR when no-one is looking? Or do most guys you know actually do what they say? (Not that I'm judging them, just curiosity.)
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pecall
Sep 14, 2005, 8:37 AM
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:shock: R U serious? I mean, don't people trad climb? Personally, all I ever do is trad - almost. Because I'm pretty much out of shape right now, sport climbing holds no interest for me. I used to sport climb a lot more 10-15 years ago when I was in shape. Then it was fun. But trad climbing adds another dimension: protection problem solving, which means that I can climb 5.7 and 5.8 and still find it a challenge. But I also find that a lot of people stick with top roping, probably a tradition from their schooling on indoor walls. They also seem to think that placing a top rope gives them the right to occupy a route for a whole day. I miss the days of "lead, follow, or get out of the way". In Sweden, there is also currently a great debate on whether to retro-bolt old, poorly protected trad routes. But who's to judge what's poor protection, those who trad climb those routes, or those who only sport climb? It's easy to get the impression that those who grew up in the post war era were taught to assess risks, and accept or reject them, that is, doing or not doing a climb. Now, here, we have a generation of climbers who have grown up with fasten seat belt-signs in cars, bicycle helmets, safe playgrounds, etc. and an on-going debate i society concering risk reduction in all aspects of life. It can seem that these climbers want to climb, but are not willing to accept any level of risk whatsoever, preferring to install bolts and other safety measures to adjust nature to their own level rather than striving to improve that level. But then again, who's to say who's right and who's wrong?
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devkrev
Sep 14, 2005, 11:39 AM
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I haven't been climbing for very long, so take this with that in mind. But I live in CT, and if anyone knows CT we pretty much are a bolt free zone. My first time on ANY lead was on gear, and I have been sport climbing once, it was fun. I guess trad is what I do. I can see where you are coming from though, lots of folks these days top-rope, which is good for them. I guess its all personal choices. I WISH more people didn't bother leading trad, the gunks on the weekends would be a whole lot quieter later dev
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king_rat
Sep 14, 2005, 11:56 AM
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I think you mistake was going climbing with a french guy and expecting in ethics. :lol:
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ajkclay
Sep 14, 2005, 12:51 PM
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yup, most of my climbing is Trad... I sport, boulder, solo, DWS, and TR, but the bulk is Trad. When I was starting I top roped for the first two years because I had no gear and the only person that did have gear had a bad shoulder and so wasn't climbing, but I knew that this was where it was at, and where I wanted to go. One day I borrowed the rack and took another climber out and ran laps on a grade 11 with good pro, placing and removing, then placing and removing. I read books on systems and talked to everyone I could, especially experienced climbers at the gym. I think if you don't Trad, you don't know what you're missing. Buy a piece of gear each pay-day, soon you'll have a rack, and while you're building, practice placements on low cracks and read, read, read. And talk talk talk, talk the ears off of anyone who will listen. Use this site, some doofuses will bite your head off for asking (as if you should know already) or tell you to go do a course, but others will help you; If I can, I will :) PM me Cheers, Adam
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andrewph
Sep 14, 2005, 1:15 PM
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In reply to: I live in an area where all rocks in a 100 mile radius are strictly NO BOLTS Well in Ireland the whole country is 'NO BOLTS' so all we do around here is Trad. In my experience very few people around here top rope. its all lead and followed. I started a couple of years ago seconding my brother and other friends learning how to place gear and I very quickly got into leading (I think like my 4-5th outdoor route). Anyway I (like ajkclay Suggested) slowly bought gear until now when I pretty much have a full rack (for where I climb at least) minus a few bits and bobs. SO I say get gear when you can practice placing as often as you can until you know you can trust your gear. and then start leading easy routes that you can sew up with gear. I read somewhere possibly on this sight, that the longer you top rope the harder the transition to leading will be. I don't know if that's true but I made the transition early and it was real easy. and I'm surprised how much I read about others who find it difficult!! Just my 2 cents.. Andy
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climbingaggie03
Sep 14, 2005, 1:27 PM
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I do both, I like to lead trad, and even a 5.5 is interesting when your last piece is 10 feet below you, but I can sport climb 10d-11a however, I dont' really feel comfortable pushing that hard on trad, so if I want to climb a trad route that is that hard, I usually set up a tr. Maybe this isn't the best ethical/style decision, but I've got to find a way to climb harder stuff without decking all the time.
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vegastradguy
Sep 14, 2005, 1:27 PM
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<----- see name for answer.
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far_east_climber
Sep 14, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Hmm, from reading some of these replies, I get the feeling that people think or think others feel that top roping is bad style/unethical... If that's the case, what are your reasons?
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skateman
Sep 14, 2005, 1:53 PM
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Hey Pecall, You are fueling the trad stereotype! :-) "Personally, all I ever do is trad - almost. Because I'm pretty much out of shape right now, sport climbing holds no interest for me. I used to sport climb a lot more 10-15 years ago when I was in shape." However, you are dead on about the problem solving aspect of it! To answer the OP, I think a smaller portion of the climbing community are actually traddies. I would guess about 25% (I could be way off). However, in New England, if you want to get more than 200 feet off the ground, you need to go trad! Dan
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reg
Sep 14, 2005, 2:06 PM
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trad 50%, TR 40%, gym & sport 10%
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phugganut
Sep 14, 2005, 2:15 PM
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Mostly trad for me.
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olderic
Sep 14, 2005, 2:17 PM
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In reply to: :shock: R U serious? I mean, don't people trad climb? Personally, all I ever do is trad - almost. Because I'm pretty much out of shape right now, sport climbing holds no interest for me. I used to sport climb a lot more 10-15 years ago when I was in shape. Then it was fun. But trad climbing adds another dimension: protection problem solving, which means that I can climb 5.7 and 5.8 and still find it a challenge. But I also find that a lot of people stick with top roping, probably a tradition from their schooling on indoor walls. They also seem to think that placing a top rope gives them the right to occupy a route for a whole day. I miss the days of "lead, follow, or get out of the way". In Sweden, there is also currently a great debate on whether to retro-bolt old, poorly protected trad routes. But who's to judge what's poor protection, those who trad climb those routes, or those who only sport climb? It's easy to get the impression that those who grew up in the post war era were taught to assess risks, and accept or reject them, that is, doing or not doing a climb. Now, here, we have a generation of climbers who have grown up with fasten seat belt-signs in cars, bicycle helmets, safe playgrounds, etc. and an on-going debate i society concering risk reduction in all aspects of life. It can seem that these climbers want to climb, but are not willing to accept any level of risk whatsoever, preferring to install bolts and other safety measures to adjust nature to their own level rather than striving to improve that level. But then again, who's to say who's right and who's wrong? Very well said - makes me proud of the of my Swedish ancestry
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hangerlessbolt
Sep 14, 2005, 2:18 PM
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Only fat guys who can no longer clip bolts at the .12+ level trad climb. Phuck dat Trad climbing’s like fishing… You just sit there trolling along until you feel a tug at the end of the line. No excitement. You’d think with the long approaches, those fat bastards would be in better shape. How many trad climbers have you seen without their shirts on…you know why? Cuz they’re FAT!! No amount of gear is going to help you climb harder. Lose the cams…lose the ankle socks…hang on to whatever nuts you have…and climb sport! Get back in the gym…you fat nasties!
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landgolier
Sep 14, 2005, 2:41 PM
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I don't know how high the routes are where the OP is, but I know that lots of weekender types consider climbing trad on short, single-pitch crag routes (up to 50', which seems to be where most people's little local crags fall) to be more like training for longer stuff or trips to bigger places than the thing itself. If I'm at a local crag and I'm climbing trad, I kind of think of it as training/practice for gear and systems, while if I'm on TR or sport I'm practicing movement. Which I do depends on what I want to train that day and if the rock provides good gear practice. I know there are plenty of legit, fun, and hard as hell 50' or less trad routes out there, but most of the time pulling the rack out for 40' of 5.7 at the local short-approach, partner-had-to-mow-the-lawn-that-morning chosspile feels more like a dress rehearsal than the thing itself. Of course this doesn't apply at all if red rocks or the gunks is in your back yard, but I think there are a lot of us who live less than an hour from some decent stuff and 3-5 hours from really good stuff who have this mentality.
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dingus
Sep 14, 2005, 2:43 PM
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678,143. DMT
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bobruef
Sep 14, 2005, 2:50 PM
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I got more excited two weeks ago about my first two trad leads (though very mediocre ones) than I got about setting a new personal best (grade-wise) on toprope last weekend.
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hangerlessbolt
Sep 14, 2005, 2:57 PM
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You forgot to carry the one 8^)
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cchildre
Sep 14, 2005, 3:40 PM
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Trad climb...yes. You just met some TR guys that probably got the racks to look cool and setup TR anchors, but I could be wrong. I have met a few guys that show up to a trip with a fully loaded sweet shiny new rack that makes me drool, and then discover they don't lead, just TR most times, but they want to lead just haven't learned from anyone. I am still learning and consider it to be unethical to try to school anyone on the subject. I love to trad climb...but I prefer to work with my partner or within our tight knit group, as for others those equal to or ahead of me experience wise I can be comfortable with as well, but not noobs. The blind leading the blind...yes?
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pettsnjam
Sep 14, 2005, 3:49 PM
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Just a trad climber, but I love lead ice too.
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speedywon
Sep 14, 2005, 4:02 PM
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Several thoughts: 1) When I climb for the first time in a new area, I'm sometimes hesitant to jump on the sharp end until I get a feel for the rock quality. This might mean TR a route or two to analyze the rock a bit. 2) Most, sane, people don't climb the same level on trad lead as they TR. If you want to improve, I feel you need to push your physical limits (on TR or bouldering) as well as your mental limits while trading. 3) One would think that if you spend all that money on gear you should use it. However, some days you just don't feel like going through the hassle of sorting gear and racking up. Instead you TR a few problems to get in your quick rock fix and call it a day.
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dingus
Sep 14, 2005, 4:12 PM
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In reply to: 2) Most, sane, people don't climb the same level on trad lead as they TR. If you want to improve, I feel you need to push your physical limits (on TR or bouldering) as well as your mental limits while trading. The best trad climbers I've known climb on the lead within a letter grade or two what they can do on TR, danger ratings notwithstanding. I used to climb this dude and I could occasionally out-TR him. Then he'd turn around and lead the scariest shit, like a letter easier than what he just fell from on TR... twas mind blowing to see it and to feel it in the stomach, to see that kind of mind control displayed. Leading near your limit in trad is an expression of mastery, make no mistake. It isn't a place for beginners to be exploring their craft. I guess what I'm saying though, it this; just like with free soloing, leading near or at one's limits may be an act of suicide or it may be an expresson of mastery. Cheers DMT
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kyote321
Sep 14, 2005, 4:13 PM
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the rock quality around here (albuquerque) is marginal at best for trad., so i mostly sport climb/boulder. used to do more trad when i lived in wyoming.
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mrtristan
Sep 14, 2005, 4:28 PM
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My time is probably spent 60% sport, 40% trad. I enjoy trad much more but the local crag has more and better sport. I rarely toprope. -Tristan
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areuinclimber
Sep 14, 2005, 4:52 PM
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ive top roped a total of 3 climbs in my climbing career. the rest i was forced to learn trad. all it takes is a little research, a little gear, a little smarts, and some balls. i saw the greatest thing the other day. some dude was leading the first pitch of jam crack (5.7, sunnyside bench, yosemite, ca) with 2 hexes (sizes useless on the crack) a couple nuts and a cam equivalent to a #4 c4. it was fuckin brilliant that the guy had so much gumption to learn even though he was basically freesoloing the pitch. i set him straight but heavily congratulated him for the size of his sack (no one taught him shit, he was just doing it). i say screw depending on others and just lead trad. the only thing you really need is an experienced belayer because a trad fall can be alot different than a sport fall.
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harmonydoc
Sep 14, 2005, 5:41 PM
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I've never lead sport, haven't found anyting easy enough to be in my comfort zone (still in the low 5.10s on TR). I'm a NOOB trad leader, and I love it! Staying on easy stuff (5.6-5.7) and having a blast! Last weekend I lead Holdless Horror (5.6) in Tuolumne (all 4 pitches). Epic'ed on the hike out, but that's another story.
In reply to: all it takes is a little research, a little gear, a little smarts, and some balls. Well, I've done a lot of research, have a lot of gear (I'm gainfully employed, and I have the female shopping gene which has now been diverted into buying shiny metal things), I like to think I have a little smarts, but last time I checked ... well, do ovaries count?
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areuinclimber
Sep 14, 2005, 6:23 PM
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ovaries count....... i know some bold chicks. so if your climbin in the meadows than you are climbin in the valley too?
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harmonydoc
Sep 14, 2005, 6:50 PM
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Haven't been climbing in the valley yet. Want to. Potential trip next month. Mostly been to Lover's Leap, it takes me 3 hours to get there instead of the 5 hours to Yosemite, so I can daytrip if I need to. I have to stay home on weekends once in a while and pay attention to my husband, or he's gonna think he's a climbing widower ...
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ajkclay
Sep 15, 2005, 3:30 AM
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In reply to: Only fat guys who can no longer clip bolts at the .12+ level trad climb. Phuck dat Trad climbing’s like fishing… You just sit there trolling along until you feel a tug at the end of the line. No excitement. You’d think with the long approaches, those fat bastards would be in better shape. How many trad climbers have you seen without their shirts on…you know why? Cuz they’re FAT!! No amount of gear is going to help you climb harder. Lose the cams…lose the ankle socks…hang on to whatever nuts you have…and climb sport! Get back in the gym…you fat nasties! Not that we want to be promoting any stereotypes here huh? :wink:
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ajkclay
Sep 15, 2005, 3:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: 2) Most, sane, people don't climb the same level on trad lead as they TR. If you want to improve, I feel you need to push your physical limits (on TR or bouldering) as well as your mental limits while trading. The best trad climbers I've known climb on the lead within a letter grade or two what they can do on TR, danger ratings notwithstanding. I used to climb this dude and I could occasionally out-TR him. Then he'd turn around and lead the scariest s---, like a letter easier than what he just fell from on TR... twas mind blowing to see it and to feel it in the stomach, to see that kind of mind control displayed. Leading near your limit in trad is an expression of mastery, make no mistake. It isn't a place for beginners to be exploring their craft. I guess what I'm saying though, it this; just like with free soloing, leading near or at one's limits may be an act of suicide or it may be an expresson of mastery. Cheers DMT Very true Dingus me ol' chap! (sorry for some reason felt like talking like an old English Gentleman) I think that it is a sign of mastery and mental control when all of your limit grades for each discipline begin to dovetail.
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docontherock
Sep 15, 2005, 3:46 AM
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Trad, but someone has to clean when swinging leads on multipitch so I guess that's top-roping.....
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climbingaggie03
Sep 15, 2005, 3:57 AM
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To get off the original Topic, and answer someone who asked if TRing is considered bad style, I dont' consider it bad style, I just wouldn't say that you've sent a route clean until you've done it on the sharp end of the rope, It's a small distinction, but pretty important I think
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mcfoley
Sep 15, 2005, 5:07 AM
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I would say that if you are relatively new to climbing (?) and if you meet new people, they might want to size you up as a competent climber/belayer...before risking thier lives on a mutipitch with you. Also "Most" people usually lead trad on routes that aren't at their threshhold of failure. Not too many people plan on falling while on trad leads. It's more a consequence of f'ing up. It could be that the people you are climbing with want to climb hard to keep up thier strength...so they TR hard(er) routes. Also if you go out with a group of people at varying levels of ability, TRing (trad routes) is typical practice. my thoughts
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mcfoley
Sep 15, 2005, 5:09 AM
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Oh yeah...I trad as much as possible...I also boulder, sport...went ice climbing once too... TRAD IS THE MOST FUN THOUGH!!!
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cchildre
Sep 15, 2005, 3:33 PM
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Reading through all this....some of the Trad only guys have chimed in that they aren't in shape for sport climbing....LOL...so if one were to sterotype..then one could say that trad climbers are fat out of shape guys. Not true by any means but some have admitted as much. Then I think about my first trad climbing trip. My buddy who frequents 5.12's and was at 12b/c at the time shows up with his full rack of gear and jumps on the classic route in the Wichita's, the Dihedral at 5.6, which I lead the day before, and being my first trad lead, I breezed through, and I was a weak 5.10'er at best. 5.12 buddy gets on and proceeds to spend almost an hour navigating to the top, which shuts him down for the rest of the day, putting him on the TR! This isn't me spraying at all, but I was just shocked to see this guy having a 5.6 hand him his hat. Sooooooo I guess I have no point here, but the three or four shades of climbing are very different indeed, and so long as your pulling down, does the rest really matter that much...ethics set aside?
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atpeaceinbozeman
Sep 15, 2005, 3:46 PM
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Trad is the way to go, and if you throw the word multi-pitch in....oh fuck yeah! 8^) All this talk about trad, and me with a noon lab....damn I'm skipping school again already. I guess you have to take advantage of the season while it's here though....ok, I'm going to the Gallatins.... Tom
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fng
Sep 15, 2005, 4:21 PM
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You don't need some one to teach you how to trad. Start leading easier routes and place an obscene amount of gear. After a few routes it will become easier and more comfortable and you gradually increase route difficulty and the distance between pro. All climbing rocks, but doing a long trad route placing gear is my favorite.
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ambler
Sep 15, 2005, 4:27 PM
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In reply to: I guess you have to take advantage of the season while it's here though....ok, I'm going to the Gallatins... I miss the canyon...only visited there once, but what a great place.
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outsideguyzak
Sep 15, 2005, 5:29 PM
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I have found that tons and tons of people will call themselves climbers. Sadly most of these people are either gym rats, or people who HAVE climbed but don't really climb anymore, but they just talk about it like they do. Out of the limited real climbers that I know, most of them are strictly sport climbers and some are boulderers. In the Southeast where I live true trad climbers are few and far between. This is a sad and depressing situation, plus i can never find anyone who even wants to follow trad. I usually can only scrounge up someone to go sport climb or boulder with. If i want to climb cracks, then I have to go by myself and free solo. I love it, but it would not be healthy for me to make a daily habit out of it. My search for more trad climbers will always continue, but my hopes are not too good. It seems to me that most of the trad climbers are in the West.
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healyje
Sep 15, 2005, 6:29 PM
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In reply to: You don't need some one to teach you how to trad. Is this true? Yes, many folks over the years have taught themselves via the ancient "Devil's Lake Trial and Error Scool of Rock Climbing", but the single best and quickest route to becoming a good trad leader is to second as many good trad leaders as you can. Ask, plead, beg, bait, badger, beat, annoy, or otherwise haraunge them until they take you. This especially applies to any old [medically] "retired" trad leaders under the age of 65 who should be mercilessly hounded and persecuted back on to the rock. Go through your state's profile and list of climbers on this site and go after a few... ----------------------------------------------- 'Place thy protection well lest the ground rise up and smite thee...'
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hangerlessbolt
Sep 16, 2005, 3:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You don't need some one to teach you how to trad. Is this true? Yes, many folks over the years have taught themselves via the ancient "Devil's Lake Trial and Error Scool of Rock Climbing", but the single best and quickest route to becoming a good trad leader is to second as many good trad leaders as you can. Ask, plead, beg, bait, badger, beat, annoy, or otherwise haraunge them until they take you. This especially applies to any old [medically] "retired" trad leaders under the age of 65 who should be mercilessly hounded and persecuted back on to the rock. Go through your state's profile and list of climbers on this site and go after a few... ----------------------------------------------- 'Place thy protection well lest the ground rise up and smite thee...' Oh very well then...so you're available? What time? I guess that does leave a certain Woody Stark out of the equation...as I'm sure he was well past the century mark when we climbed together a few years ago.
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healyje
Sep 16, 2005, 4:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You don't need some one to teach you how to trad. Is this true? Yes, many folks over the years have taught themselves via the ancient "Devil's Lake Trial and Error Scool of Rock Climbing", but the single best and quickest route to becoming a good trad leader is to second as many good trad leaders as you can. Ask, plead, beg, bait, badger, beat, annoy, or otherwise haraunge them until they take you. This especially applies to any old [medically] "retired" trad leaders under the age of 65 who should be mercilessly hounded and persecuted back on to the rock. Go through your state's profile and list of climbers on this site and go after a few... ----------------------------------------------- 'Place thy protection well lest the ground rise up and smite thee...' Oh very well then...so you're available? What time? I guess that does leave a certain Woody Stark out of the equation...as I'm sure he was well past the century mark when we climbed together a few years ago. I am and after six thousand posts you probably need to get out from behind that keyboard for a refresher session...
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tradrenn
Sep 18, 2005, 9:53 PM
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In reply to: Only fat guys who can no longer clip bolts at the .12+ level trad climb. Phuck dat Trad climbing’s like fishing… You just sit there trolling along until you feel a tug at the end of the line. No excitement. You’d think with the long approaches, those fat bastards would be in better shape. How many trad climbers have you seen without their shirts on…you know why? Cuz they’re FAT!! No amount of gear is going to help you climb harder. Lose the cams…lose the ankle socks…hang on to whatever nuts you have…and climb sport! Get back in the gym…you fat nasties! Dear Sir: You are a Tool of the Day. And I'm guessing you never climbed with somebody who leads 5.10b on gear.
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all_that_is_rock
Sep 18, 2005, 10:43 PM
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In reply to: Several thoughts: 2) Most, sane, people don't climb the same level on trad lead as they TR. If you want to improve, I feel you need to push your physical limits (on TR or bouldering) as well as your mental limits while trading. so I guess I'm insane then. I lead exactly the same grade I can TR. I am leading most of the time anywho, so I guess that would make sence. The only exeption to this rule is if I know the climb has poor protection options. In that case I may bring it down a grade.
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atpeaceinbozeman
Sep 18, 2005, 10:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I guess you have to take advantage of the season while it's here though....ok, I'm going to the Gallatins... I miss the canyon...only visited there once, but what a great place. The Gallatins are pretty special, and a great place to climb. You should come back through, seems I never see more than 2 or 3 parties at most... Tom
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live2climb
Sep 18, 2005, 11:05 PM
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i think that you just had one or two weird experiences but a lot of people including myself climb with cams and nuts and sutch but is that realy "traditinal climbing" i mean we arnt climbing on hemp ropes with manky geer doing amazing scarry stuff but....... we stil call outselfs trad climbers?
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ridgeclimber
Sep 18, 2005, 11:40 PM
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I haven't been climbing for too long, but 90% of all the routes I've done have been trad. The only times I sport climbed were when I was first learning. Personally, I find trad much more rewarding. If I want to practice fancy, acrobatic routes, I'll go bouldering. I find trad climbing less of a "sport" and more of an adventure, and I'll take sluggish clove-hitch rope-soloing over most sport climbs any day of the week I find also that toproping is good for scouting out a route or for trying routes that are above my level; I don't feel nearly as good having successfully toproped a climb as I do having lead it.
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steve_in_scotland
Sep 19, 2005, 4:39 AM
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Hey Trad is the way to go. Sport Climbing is neither. Enough said. Cheers Steve
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healyje
Sep 20, 2005, 5:24 AM
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In reply to: I would say that if you are relatively new to climbing (?) and if you meet new people, they might want to size you up as a competent climber/belayer...before risking thier lives on a mutipitch with you. Also "Most" people usually lead trad on routes that aren't at their threshhold of failure. Not too many people plan on falling while on trad leads. It's more a consequence of f'ing up. It could be that the people you are climbing with want to climb hard to keep up thier strength...so they TR hard(er) routes. Also if you go out with a group of people at varying levels of ability, TRing (trad routes) is typical practice. my thoughts It's a mystery to me why the 95% of the folks that post here all say "...sport at 5.n and lead trad at 5.n-4." Bottom line, if you aren't taking dives trad climbing then you aren't climbing hard enough, you really haven't learned to place gear confidently yet, and/or don't have the judgment skills to know when falling is or is not a viable option. The gear you're clipping should be basically irrevalent if you really have learned how to trad climb.
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camhead
Sep 20, 2005, 5:30 AM
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Sporto's that diss trad have no balls. Traddies that diss sport are weakmos. how many times do I have to say this?
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healyje
Sep 20, 2005, 10:00 AM
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In reply to: Hahaha, seems all the trad guys I climb with telling me not to fall on gear are utter wimps. Huh, why would you buy all that shiny gear and then never really use it...? I've heard of this "never fall" business before from a few "purists" here and there. They obviously weren't roofers who love getting upside down. If you climb a lot of roofs [ground up, no dogging] you are going to do a lot of flying on your gear - at least we always have. Plus, how would you know if your gear skills are any good or getting better if you never dive on it. Like I said, it's a mystery. For me, flying is half the fun of getting there...
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healyje
Sep 20, 2005, 10:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Huh, why would you buy all that shiny gear and then never really use it...? I buy used gear... :wink: Me too, ebay's the place...
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azrockclimber
Sep 21, 2005, 2:44 PM
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yeah, that .." i trad cause I am out of shape" thing is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard....trad is just as hard and way, way more committing. you have to be in much better shape to climb .11a trad than .11a sport...and you have to be a better climber in every way. I never got that one....
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ambler
Sep 21, 2005, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: OK, I'm asking this question because it suddenly occurred to me that maybe not too many people do. I think that if you took the subset of rc.com users who are active on rock, and then subtracted those who mainly gym climb, toprope, boulder or do sport, you'd have a relatively small fraction left -- although that still would be lots of people.
In reply to: ...a lot of people including myself climb with cams and nuts and sutch but is that realy "traditinal climbing" i mean we arnt climbing on hemp ropes with manky geer doing amazing scarry stuff but....... we stil call outselfs trad climbers? Hemp ropes and manky gear (or cams and nuts) are not the essence of trad climbing. Ground-up leads on unknown terrain are the essence of trad climbing. Now, by that criterion, how many climbers here know what "actual trad" feels like? 8^)
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antiqued
Sep 21, 2005, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: OK, I'm asking this question because it suddenly occurred to me that maybe not too many people do. Hemp ropes and manky gear (or cams and nuts) are not the essence of trad climbing. Ground-up leads on unknown terrain are the essence of trad climbing. Now, by that criterion, how many climbers here know what "actual trad" feels like? 8^) OK - I have (to help the count), and I do (but not often enough). But Ambler's criterion will certainly will lower the number, and remove many who feel that they trad climb, as compared to sport climb. But who are the silent majority? It seems a few dozen people dominate the contributions here, but a two day old troll posting (Old guys pulling hard) has seen 2000 views! Do those 8 dozen people check it 10X a day for the latest?
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thegreytradster
Sep 23, 2005, 2:38 AM
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In reply to: Ground-up leads on unknown terrain are the essence of trad climbing. Now, by that criterion, how many climbers here know what "actual trad" feels like? 8^) No need to add any more comments after this one 8^)
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