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ridgeclimber
Oct 22, 2005, 10:44 PM
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The added friction may even be an advantage in some circumstances. Even when it's disadvantageous, it can still be used in a pinch.
I wonder whether it would be safe to use two opposed/reversed biners with a munter hitch; they might be a little small, in that the hitch might not have a lot of room the reverse when pulling slack back through, but I'm not sure it would be unsafe, per se.
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holdplease2
Oct 22, 2005, 11:42 PM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: Dec 18, 2002
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Well, I am on cold medicine.
Squirrils laughing?
I honestly can't tell what I was talking about, either. :oops:
I bet if you just tried it, you'd understand.
Coldclimb - I wish I could respond but I am really out of it. :(
-Kate.
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cracklover
Oct 23, 2005, 3:14 AM
Post #28 of 35
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kate, hope you feel better!
In reply to: Coldclimb - I wish I could respond but I am really out of it. :( -Kate.
Um, did ColdClimb post and I missed it?
G:?:
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holdplease2
Oct 23, 2005, 4:26 AM
Post #29 of 35
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Oh, Cracklover, I meant you. I've been away and your names are simliar...the two-word, one-word thing got me.
I am so cooked I had trouble logging on just now.
Sorry about that...
Thank you for the well-wishes,
-Kate.
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cracklover
Oct 23, 2005, 2:15 PM
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In reply to: Oh, Cracklover, I meant you. I've been away and your names are simliar...the two-word, one-word thing got me. I am so cooked I had trouble logging on just now. Sorry about that... Thank you for the well-wishes, -Kate.
That's what I figured. Poor thing - whatever cold medicine you're using, it must be good stuff!
GO
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j_ung
Oct 23, 2005, 3:15 PM
Post #31 of 35
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j_ung moved this thread from General to Aid Climbing.
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kimgraves
Oct 23, 2005, 8:02 PM
Post #32 of 35
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Can I give this a try?
Ovals: the reason to use ovals for aid is two fold that I can think of. For one thing, ovals are designed with a gate clearance so that you can clip in a rope while two biners are already clipped into it. The reason you need this gate clearance is due to the following aid sequence. Secondly since you have two biners clipped in, and alternately loaded, the biners would shift if the biner was a D shape. Ovals shift less. Personally, I’m using the BD wiregate ovals, which have both the classic shape, have a huge gate clearance, and are light in weight.
Aid Sequence: Every aider is attached to a daisy with a dedicated biner. The other end of the daisy is then girthed to your harness. If you’re using a two-aider system you have two daisys girth hitched to your harness and two dedicated biners – one for each daisy/aider. When I say "clip an aider", I really mean clip the biner attached to the aider. Assuming a two aider system (there are 3-4 aider systems as well that I’ve never used):
1) place a piece of pro and clip a biner to it (gate down and out).
2) retrieve one of the aiders you're currently standing in and clip it to the pro’s biner. (gate up and in)
3) test the pro.
4) reach down and retrieve the 2nd aider below and clip it too to the new pro.
5) climb up the two aiders (this is were the alternate loading would cause shifting) till you’re waist height with the pro biner. Note: at this point you have two biners in the pro-biner.
6) clip the rope to the pro-biner. (hence the need for the gate clearance)
6a) if you need to extend for potential rope drag, you do it in the same way you would for a trad placement - clip a sling to the pro-biner and then clip the rope to the sling with a second biner. You can clip an extension biner to the pro-biner to extend also, but that’s old school.
7) repeat.
The reason you don’t clip the rope until you’re waist high is that you don’t want to pull the rope up only to have it slip back. You’re moving fast and it’s a lot more work for both you and your belayer to be constantly taking in rope and paying it out. I've never soloed, but my guess is that if you’re soloing it’s impractical to take the rope out and then back in again as you move up. Just get waist high, then clip.
You must clip the rope before testing the new pro to avoid the possibility of taking a static fall onto your daisy. You never want to fall directly on your daisy. Falling on a static daisy puts a MASSIVE load onto the pro and can cause massive internal injurys. Only the rope is dynamic and designed to catch a fall.
Best, Kim
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ricardol
Oct 25, 2005, 1:40 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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yikes ..
.. the best answer i can come up with is .. do a few pitches of aid (specially using 4 aiders) and you will understand why sometimes you would clip biner to biner ..
even if you use less than 4 aiders .. sometimes you bugger something up and you end up with biner-to-biner connections..
for example .. (and this always happens when the aid is dicey) ..
you go up on a piece .. my setup is 2 aiders.
Place the piece (say -- a pin or head -- or but -- whatever)
clip one carabiner to it.
clip one aider to it
stand on aider
clip 2nd aider to 1st aider (aiders are staggered)
climb up
place next piece
remove bottom aider, place on new piece
now before we go onto the next piece (we would test of course) you want to clip the rope to the previous piece. --
what if you buggered somethign up, and now cant get the gate clearance to throw in the rope ont he biner that is on the piece -- then you have little choice
1 - add a sling + biner
2 - just add a biner
.. i almost always choose 2 -- because i only carry about 8 slings on lead. and because usually there is no need for a sling when soloing.
-- if i can help it -- i dont use 2 biners per piece .. because that is ALOT of biners for 1 pitch .. but sometimes you can't help it.
-- also .. this problem does not come up on easy aid, because if the piece you are moving onto is bomber, and the pieces below are also bomber -- then i have no problems with getting onto the new piece before clipping in the piece i am coming off from...
i just change aiders -- then remove the aiders from the previous piece -- then throw the rope in -- (that is if i'm not backcleaning -- which on easy aid, you do alot of)
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tomtom
Oct 25, 2005, 5:27 PM
Post #34 of 35
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In reply to: The reason you don’t clip the rope until you’re waist high is that you don’t want to pull the rope up only to have it slip back. |
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curt
Oct 25, 2005, 5:37 PM
Post #35 of 35
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In reply to: In reply to: The reason you don’t clip the rope until you’re waist high is that you don’t want to pull the rope up only to have it slip back. The only reason you would fall is if the upper piece that you are standing on blows. The piece below catches the fall. So there's no reason to clip the rope to the piece you are currently standing on. People who pull the rope up to clip the high piece will take a longer fall (when that high piece blows) than if they just left the rope unclipped until they moved up.
You might want to give that a bit more thought. :wink:
Curt
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