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zao479


Oct 24, 2005, 8:02 PM
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If your gonna bring your dog/kid to the crag...!
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This weekend I was at the rendezvous at Horse Shoe Canyon Ranch. The weather was perfect, the rocks were perfect, and everyone had a good time. The only thing that got to me were the kids and the dogs. Don't get me wrong I think its cool if you want to bring along the next generation and I like to take my dog to the rock, but there has to be some boundaries. We cant have kids and dogs fighting and playing in other peoples gear and around belays.

Complete the sentence and give us your thought, rants, and raves.

If your gonna bring your dog/kid to the crag...


thomaskeefer


Oct 24, 2005, 8:07 PM
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Rants about dogs are understandable.. they can piss on your gear or steal your lunch.. rants about kids.. lighten up. They have just as much right to be where they are as you do..


rainontin


Oct 24, 2005, 8:20 PM
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Put your dog(s) on a leash or don't bring them. Not everyone loves them as much as you do...http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ist_start=5&id=63246


climbsomething


Oct 24, 2005, 8:29 PM
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Dogs and human children are not the same, and actually, BOTH have a right to be there, but no creature, canine or human of any age, has any "right" to be obnoxious or in harm's way. Both should be well behaved and kept under control. I have been just as annoyed by screaming kids running around under the belay and pitching rocks and crap, as I have been fighting, yapping or nosy dogs. A 7 year old child is smarter than a puppy and deservedly higher on the food chain, but they're both still babies and need discipline. That's all up to the grownups they answer to.


bigevilgrape


Oct 24, 2005, 8:31 PM
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Rants about dogs are understandable.. they can piss on your gear or steal your lunch.. rants about kids.. lighten up. They have just as much right to be where they are as you do..

Uhhh exept for when people dont watch their kids and they start chucking rocks down from an upper terrecy section, or from the top of the cliff. Or when the kids are screaming and tired and should be at home sleeping after a long day, but i'm still trying to climb.

dogs need to either be the type to stay near you, or on a leash. THere is a dog at rumney that likes to take off across the street, play in the river, and harass the donkey. ANd then people wonder why the locals hate us?


treez


Oct 24, 2005, 8:41 PM
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If you're gonna bring your dog to the crag, make sure it has a cool name and is wearing at least one biner.

If you're gonna bring your kid to the crag, be sure to deck it out in mini patagucci wear and feed it organic juice boxes.


risos


Oct 24, 2005, 8:48 PM
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Sheeeshshshsh here we go again, soon someone will start saying how dogs should be sacrifized if they piss on your gear and how lawsuits will start falling on you for bringing your pet to the crags.

People its a trend every few weeks this comes up. Keep your dog on a leash, that is very simple and easy to do.

Kids have as much a right to be there but I think its sensible to ask the parents to keep them away from other belayers just for the simple reason of SAFETY. We dont want them steping on our gear and we wouldnt want anything falling on them, quit the we have or dont have the right to have or not have..... just be reasonable.


cam


Oct 24, 2005, 8:48 PM
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Put your dog(s) on a leash or don't bring them. Not everyone loves them as much as you do...http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ist_start=5&id=63246

I think that should read, dog(s) and kid(s). Remember that Seinfeld episode where some couple kept saying "ya gotta come see the baayybeee. When are ya gonna come see the baayybeee?" Yeah, that hit it right in the head. Other people do not necessarily think your kids are as adorable and precious as you do.

So to complete the sentence in the OP ...tie them up!

cam out.


squierbypetzl
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Oct 24, 2005, 10:09 PM
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Pets Im Ok with, even if I have to wrestle your damn chihuahua for the only sandwich Ive had in 3 days.
But please people! Keeps your durned kids on a leash (though Ive never had a kid pee on my gear before).


vicsai11


Oct 24, 2005, 10:16 PM
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I was at city of rocks this weekend and enjoyed listening to someone's crying baby for three hours at elephant rock! it was insanely annoying.. on top of that they had three dogs running around bothering everyone else! i'm sorry but not everyone likes dogs running up to them and not everyone likes crying babies..


Partner philbox
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Oct 24, 2005, 10:23 PM
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I`ve got only one thing to say about a dog sniffing around my gear. Set of hexes, end of problem.

On the other hand you can`t use that tactic on a kid snuffling around in my gear. That problem becomes the parents problem. You see I won`t direct my ire towards the kid I will direct it towards said urchins parents however. So in one respect the set of hexes still holds true for either problem. :lol:


thetroutscout


Oct 24, 2005, 10:33 PM
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Yeah, its a pain when people bring their kids and they get bored and sit there and scream. This selfish parent then lets the rest of the rock deal with their responsibility. One time this guy came up with his crawling baby, laid out his blanket and then traversed out of sight. I watched as his baby crawled off his blanket and into the dirt. I yelled out to him, "hey, your baby just crawled into the dirty." He replied, "yeah, he likes the dirt." I wish mom had been there to hear that one...

I love dogs and good behavior for a dog is subjective. I know some dogs that if they don't rip your leg off they are displaying good behavior. Probably the most bothersome thing at crags are the drunken, vulgar spouting neighbors that always seem to rope up next to me. I'm always friendly and up for a chat but I hate a greeting strung full of profanity, laced with rock climbing infused lingo that neither of us really understands.

^^ike


iowanclimber


Oct 24, 2005, 11:02 PM
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hey man, i climb at HCR alot, live near Springfield, and i think HCR has rules that dogs have to be on a leash because of the goat herding dogs (basically because the goat herding dogs are trained to kill your dog and/or coyotes)....


ebersoless


Oct 24, 2005, 11:16 PM
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Bear Spray - Obedience Training and Parenting Skills in an easily portable applicator.


overlord


Oct 24, 2005, 11:25 PM
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I watched as his baby crawled off his blanket and into the dirt. I yelled out to him, "hey, your baby just crawled into the dirty." He replied, "yeah, he likes the dirt." I wish mom had been there to hear that one...

theres nothing catastrophic with a kid getting a little dirty&co.

anyway, both kids and dogs at the crag should be well behaved and should under no circumstances put themselves or others in danger.


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 7:03 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.


bbrock


Oct 25, 2005, 7:13 AM
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Ah the dog arguement. Sometimes dogs are anoying, but lets face it people are much more so. People say hey your dog is digging or sh@ting or barking or whatever. I guess there saying my dog is ruining the place. Lets take a look at people. What about the bolts on the rock, the trail leading to the rock, the road leading to the trail, the toilet, the parking lot, the garbage. How much gas did you burn to get to the crag. How much trash did you throw away this week. We are all parasites and are ruining the place not the dogs. My dog has much more of a right to be there than people.


paganmonkeyboy


Oct 25, 2005, 7:21 AM
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...make sure the kid stays away from rattlesnakes. I was at the tropics a few years back, before they were cemented under to make a new dam at horsetooth - mom and dad are climbing, little 4 yr old girl just wandering around playing in the dirt...suddenly we hear her shriek, a *LOUD* rattler starts hissing and making noise...a bunch of us jumped off the rocks and started running towards her - this guy got there first, grabbed her and kept running (a thousand kudos to that dude...damn...), totally saved someone else's kid that Wasn't Paying Attention...

I don't care if your kid makes noise. Don't let them get hurt (and don't just smile at me when your dog eats my lunch...offer me some of your food :) )


photon


Oct 25, 2005, 7:22 AM
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"When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others. "

Maybe you should just stay home instead of dictating who should be at the crags and what they should say. Is there a reason you belong there more than anyone else.? I certainly don't enjoy being at the crag around little hitlers like yourself, so take your own advice, if it's going to be super crowded stay at home and play with your woodie or build a training wall.


Partner j_ung


Oct 25, 2005, 7:24 AM
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You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs.

I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.


sarcat


Oct 25, 2005, 7:27 AM
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If you bring your kids to the crag and they are bothering others then they aren't climbing. How come the parents don't have harness for them and aren't teaching/letting them climb? I have 4 kids and they all climb. If I want serious climbing for myself the kids stay home. I don't fell the crag is a very good babysitter and it's not the responsibility of others to watch my kids especially when they are belaying.

As for dogs. For all the years I've been climbing only once did a dog tick us off. That's good odds for the dozens of other dogs that were well behaved. The one that wasn't we asked the owner to tie it up and he did.


starkcontrast


Oct 25, 2005, 7:39 AM
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here is a funny story: this guy insisted on taking me trad climbing at an area near the gunks in spite of me having not tying in for over four years. he brings his four year old with him. the kid was ok for the most part, but the guy gets on lead and then backs off the first route. he encourages me to finish the route. i tied in and after determining his gear was ok, led up to the point where he came down. at that point i was encountering a eight foot roof with a old rp fixed in the only spot that would hold pro. thankfully, the horizontal at the base of the roof had bomber gear. i proceeded out the roof and realized quickly i had chosen a bad sequence. i weighted the rp which held, and then tried again. after pulling the the v5 boulder problem roof and accessing the next horizontal, i realized it wouldn't hold gear. in fact, the entire headwall above the roof was devoid of pro and required some dicey footwork to climb. obviously i made it to the anchors. when i reached the top the guy started hooting that he had never seen anyone do the route before. i late found out it was a Russ Raffa 5.12x route called "hell is real". the best part of the story... i reached the ground thirsty and with thick cotton mouth only to find the guy's son had poured out all the water from my three water bottles. moral: keep your kids on a leash at the crag.


cowpoke


Oct 25, 2005, 7:57 AM
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my kids and dog are perfect crag citizens...it's everyone else's kids and dogs that are bad. not to mention all the inconsiderate "adult" climbers getting in my way, stepping on my rope, leaving power bar wrappers and tape wads all over, and peeing and pooing all around my crag. just joshin' (kinda).


bigevilgrape


Oct 25, 2005, 7:59 AM
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You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs.

I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.

that doesnt mean its common curtesy to not bring your dog to the crag when it cant behave itself without annoying other people, or to bring your kids home if they are either too wound up to behave properly, or overly tired and shoulld go home (or someone to sit with them for a while so theyh can take a nap) Nor does it mean I dont have the right to ask polietly for you to tie your dog up, or to please keep your kids from throwing rock.

I also think people *cough*collegroups*cough* who might be new to the sport under control. I refused to climb with our college outing club last year because the PRESIDENT was loud and obnoxious, I had a friend from another school talk to me about him after a trip I wasnt on. So if you're bringing n00bs to the crag, try and keep them under control too ;) A nice talk about climbing ettiquette can go a long way.


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 8:04 AM
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What is more fun than dogs and kids? If they are behaved then bring them along. My only beef is when 4yr old kids are climbing boulders with out supervision, and when the dogs are overly aggressive or when either is digging through peoples stuff and running under belays. Climbing requires too much focus for all that.


chh


Oct 25, 2005, 8:09 AM
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I've had many an outdoors trip (climbing and otherwise) enriched by the presence of a well trained dog. And for the most part where I climb the dogs are all very well behaved, having been presumably raised in the environment.

However, climbing a route with my partner once we ran into a party with a very poorly behaved pit bull. 4 or so of them walked past us to get to a couple of bolted routes next door. Having had the crag to ourselves for the whole day up to that point, we'd left some draws hanging on a branch by these routes. After rapping off our route we went back to retrieve our gear. The Pit was NOT on a leash, showing both of us his teeth, growling, and just being generally aggressive when I got anywhere near him (which I had to in order to get my gear). One of the party, on belay and not able to do sh*t about the dog was half heartedly saying over her shoulder, "Oh he's ok."
Which isn't what the dog was telling me.....

I love most of the dogs I meet outdoors, but have also met a few mean or just plain annoying ones. I don't think the distinction between an animal that is well behaved enough to bring, and one that isn't, is that difficult to see. But, sometimes you meet people who can't, or choose not to, make this call because lets face it, having a dog is SO COOL! :roll:

Kids I don't have a problem with mostly because they won't take a chunk of flesh out of you if they are angry. But that story about the little girl and the rattler? :shock: I'm glad someone snatched her up.


leinosaur


Oct 25, 2005, 8:13 AM
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starkcontrast, that exact same thing happened to me!

but seriously . . .

If you're gonna bring your kid to the crag, READ:

Familes Rock (good article by mother_sheep re. climbing w/kids).
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/?id=2026

It goes beyond the OBVIOUS principle of respecting others' climbing/gear space and gives thoughtful perspective re. the kids' relationship to climbing, encouraging w/o pushing etc.

Good stuff.

Oh, and here's a pic of the article's author, just because:
http://groups.msn.com/...=4675541195774416833


markc


Oct 25, 2005, 8:16 AM
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If you're going to bring your dog(s) or kid(s) to the crag, make sure you have at least one extra adult on the ground at all times (belayers don't count). If the child or animal needs attention, there will be someone available immediately without any impact on the climber or belayer.

Know when to go home. You have to be prepared to go when the first person is ready, not when the last person has had their fill for the day. Taking multiple cars and a wealth of gear can be a good strategy. The parents/owners can gracefully duck out without impacting anyone else's day.

If I have my dog tied to a tree out of the way, ask if you can pet him. I'm going to tell you no, which is for your own good. My dog wants to chew a stick and enjoy the sun, not meet new people. He doesn't like new people. If I tell you to stop approaching my dog repeatedly and you insist on backing him into a tree, don't complain when he eventually scares you off. You are an ass. You fail to grasp a concept children readily accept.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 8:40 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.


greengoblin


Oct 25, 2005, 8:50 AM
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HCR is a pretty big place. Chill out. I'm sure you were once an obnoxious seven year old at one time. If you don't like the atmosphere in one area, move to another.


justsaynototake


Oct 25, 2005, 8:55 AM
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[quote="risos"]Sheeeshshshsh here we go again, soon someone will start saying how dogs should be sacrifized if they piss on your gear and how lawsuits will start falling on you for bringing your pet to the crags. [/quote="risos"]

Speaking of which, who wants to meet up for a dog sacrifice. I'll bring the BarBQ sauce!
:lol:

Seriously speaking though. I agree, dogs although they have a right to be there in the philosophical sense, they should be well trained just to be courteous to your fellow climbers. On the other hand, I get very irritated when parents bring children and they don't bring helmets for them to wear. It's cool that they bring the kids out because everyone should be able to enjoy being outside. But it is just plain irresponsible to put a kid's life in danger, especially if they don't understand the danger that they could be in, fully.
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zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 8:57 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

:cry:I'm sorry that your family didn't hold you enough when you were a kid, but it is time that you deal with these issues of inferiority that cause you to be overly aggressive and defensive. I think you should seek professional help for such a case, and might I suggest the n00b.

Just remember YOU are not the world WE are the world. We are the children(all be it well behaved and respectful children.) ... sing along every one... :o


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:10 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

:cry:I'm sorry that your family didn't hold you enough when you were a kid, but it is time that you deal with these issues of inferiority that cause you to be overly aggressive and defensive. I think you should seek professional help for such a case, and might I suggest the n00b.

Just remember YOU are not the world WE are the world. We are the children(all be it well behaved and respectful children.) ... sing along every one... :o

Still my world and whatever you say is not going to change my mind. Your post is nOOb-ish at best. How many times has then been beat on in the forums? Real original. :boring:
What you are complaining about is how you think it should be. Sorry things don't work the way you think it should. If you want to go to a crag where kids and dogs are allowed, then you have to accept it. Make your choice. Either deal with it or leave. In fact, are you sure climbing is the right sport for you?


tradgal


Oct 25, 2005, 9:15 AM
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I watched a kid (10 years old?) poop in the middle of a trail in a crowded area. Later, a women stepped in the pooh. My dog is smart enough not to pooh in the trail! TRUE STORY.

Point being, shit happens. There will always be things in the world that bother us, make us laugh, make us happy. But, you can't get every you want. The question should be, if you are going to go to the crag, what will you do to prepare yourself in case a dog is there, a child is there, that annoying guy from the gym is there?


lajhanata


Oct 25, 2005, 9:17 AM
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For me the first issue is safety. Put a bucket on those kids and keep them out from under climbing lines (falling on a kid or dog sucks for everyone). Also, I'm not really into breaking up dog fights or being attacked. If I get attacked, I may end up hurting your dog, and guess who's paying my hospital bill...

The thing that sketches me the most is kids below me when I'm bouldering, or placing the first gear. We're all there to have fun and no one wants something nasty to happen. Things are almost always cool. BTW, I definitely avoid crowded crags as a personal thing. There's always somewhere else to climb.


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 9:23 AM
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How many times has then been beat on in the forums? Real original. How extremely interesting.

Are you sure that posting is the right thing for you?! And I see that you have found your sport. :shock: Good luck with that.

I will humbly admit that I nor anyone else at this sight get the same envious props from Sharma and the like that you receive on a daily basis. If my lack of 5.27 skills makes me a n00b then so be it. I'll take your hit if you take mine.

Your screw the world attitude makes you one of two things: 17yrs old and a punk, or 28 and sadly living at mom's.


mcfoley


Oct 25, 2005, 9:38 AM
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If your gonna bring your dog to the crag be prepared to bring home a limping dog if he get's into my shit...

If your gonna bring your kid to the crag...teach your kids to repect others belongings and "SPACE".


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:38 AM
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Your screw the world attitude makes you one of two things: 17yrs old and a punk, or 28 and sadly living at mom's.

Ooh, ooh, ooh, you are sooooo close. Boy you sure are good at these generalizations. :roll:

Actually I was thinking your posts made you a kid who could only play outside with a helmet on, or a janitor who likes to feel like someone is actually listening to what they have to say...


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 9:43 AM
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For me the first issue is safety. Put a bucket on those kids and keep them out from under climbing lines (falling on a kid or dog sucks for everyone). Also, I'm not really into breaking up dog fights or being attacked. If I get attacked, I may end up hurting your dog, and guess who's paying my hospital bill...

Keeping anyone out from underneath a climb is a good idea. I certainly hope climbers are not falling on a dog or kid underneath a climb. Decking sucks. Rockfall from climbing activities is a very real danger at most crags.
If my dog or any dog attacks you, the owner is definitely responsible for your injuries and hospital bills. I can agree with that.


b_rock


Oct 25, 2005, 9:47 AM
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Make sure that they are both well behaved, I had a dog that I would never have taken to the crag as he was a maniac, my present dog Pedro or the P-Diddy as she is known on the streets finds a bit of shade lays down and sleeps until I am ready to leave. Oh and bring a bag to clean up after them.


crimpandgo


Oct 25, 2005, 9:50 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

You are right dude, You do have the right to be at the crag. You even have the right to do whatever you want. Just hope you are prepared for the other people to do whatever they want. If you let your dog dig in someone elses pack, be prepared for the consequences. You are infringing on their personal property and they have the right to protect that property. And if you confront them yourself, they have the right to protect themselves as well. Its called self defense. So, why not go to the crag and have fun instead of creating a selfish controversy. Eh? Put your dog on a leash. Its better for everyone, including yourself


Partner j_ung


Oct 25, 2005, 10:15 AM
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You have the right to free speech, to worship whatever god (or not) you choose, etc. You have no right not be annoyed by kids and dogs.

I bring my well-behaved dog out all the time and if for some reason I can't control her, I remove her. That's called courtesy and it has nothing to do with rights.

that doesnt mean its common curtesy to not bring your dog to the crag when it cant behave itself without annoying other people, or to bring your kids home if they are either too wound up to behave properly, or overly tired and shoulld go home (or someone to sit with them for a while so theyh can take a nap) Nor does it mean I dont have the right to ask polietly for you to tie your dog up, or to please keep your kids from throwing rock.

What? That's... what I said. Or at least what I meant. It has nothing to do with "rights". Rather, it's all about "courtesy". Perhaps not common courtesy, but courtesy, nonetheless.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:17 AM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

You are right dude, You do have the right to be at the crag. You even have the right to do whatever you want. Just hope you are prepared for the other people to do whatever they want. If you let your dog dig in someone elses pack, be prepared for the consequences. You are infringing on their personal property and they have the right to protect that property. And if you confront them yourself, they have the right to protect themselves as well. Its called self defense. So, why not go to the crag and have fun instead of creating a selfish controversy. Eh? Put your dog on a leash. Its better for everyone, including yourself

Not that my dog or kid (since this about kids too) would dig in your pack. If you choose to confront me about it, I also have the right to protect myself. It's still called self defense, even if my dog did shit on your pb&j.
Who has fun at the crag? No one on this thread judging by the posts.


Hook, line, and sinker....


Partner j_ung


Oct 25, 2005, 10:20 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:28 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x

Yeah? Well what about those who bring their whiney little significant others to the crag? That really annoys the crap out of me. They should leave them at home. I am so sick of hearing, "I can't" or "I have to hike all the way up there?" or "I don't want to let go!". At least snap a muzzle on them... :twisted:


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 10:29 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x
The more things change...

What is the lesser evil: Repeating a previously mentioned topic, or resurrecting old threads?

My next thread is either going to be about shoes or crash pads.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:36 AM
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My next thread is either going to be about shoes or crash pads.

Now that is funny... :lol:


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Yeah? Well what about those who bring their whiney little significant others to the crag? That really annoys the crap out of me. They should leave them at home. I am so sick of hearing, "I can't" or "I have to hike all the way up there?" or "I don't want to let go!". At least snap a muzzle on them... :twisted:

Finally we have agreed, but what about; "These shoes hurt my feet", and "I need gloves."


mushroomcloud_2


Oct 25, 2005, 10:43 AM
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What about cats? I've seen them at the crag frolicking around. They get into packs AND the can climb. I about $%^* myself once when a cat pounced next to me while I was climbing. The cat itself didn't scare me it was the anaphylactic shock that I was more concerned about. Allergic reactions really suck when your climbing.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:47 AM
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What about cats? I've seen them at the crag frolicking around. They get into packs AND the can climb. I about $%^* myself once when a cat pounced next to me while I was climbing. The cat itself didn't scare me it was the anaphylactic shock that I was more concerned about. Allergic reactions really suck when your climbing.

And don't even get me started about lobsters...


jabtocrag


Oct 25, 2005, 10:53 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

That kind of attitude makes you sound like a selfish ass. This isn't about my enjoyment being disrupted. This also isn't about climbing at the crag. In any social situation, if you, your kid, your dog, or anyone else for whom you're responsible is acting inappropriately and ruining the atmosphere for others, it's decent, courteous and the responsible thing to try to remedy the situation. If you can't see this, I feel sorry for those who are forced to deal with you on a daily basis.


killclimbz


Oct 25, 2005, 10:56 AM
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Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.

That kind of attitude makes you sound like a selfish ass. This isn't about my enjoyment being disrupted. This also isn't about climbing at the crag. In any social situation, if you, your kid, your dog, or anyone else for whom you're responsible is acting inappropriately and ruining the atmosphere for others, it's decent, courteous and the responsible thing to try to remedy the situation. If you can't see this, I feel sorry for those who are forced to deal with you on a daily basis.

A little slow today are we? Hook, line, sinker...


crimpandgo


Oct 25, 2005, 11:20 AM
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I can't believe I got sucked into this topic. Everything... EVERYTHING... written in this thread has been hashed and rehashed several times before, if you really want to participate, just read one or two the redundant dog and child threads below. It's all been said... including what I just wrote. :x

Yeah? Well what about those who bring their whiney little significant others to the crag? That really annoys the crap out of me. They should leave them at home. I am so sick of hearing, "I can't" or "I have to hike all the way up there?" or "I don't want to let go!". At least snap a muzzle on them... :twisted:

What???? I can't climb without the whiney significant other. She ismy belay partner :)

A note on earlier post. Lots of us are having fun at the crags... and with this post as well. :)


On a serious note. It should be obvious how quickly things can get out of control. Dogs and kids messing (no pun intended) brings out the worst in people. As much as I have come to appreciate the "friendly" nature of most climbers, I have also learned to respect their need to for personal space. Most real climbers got involved in climbing for the love of the outdoors and the solitude it provides. That is being lost due to overcrowding and a few bad apples of course.

Get used to it? Tolerate it maybe. Get used to it, I doubt it. I personally have lost interest recently in many of the local crags and climbing on holiday weekends due to this very problem. I have accepted the problem, but it is a bit unfortunate in my personal oppinion. With a little bit of respect for others, we all could get along.... REALLY we could


Peace


paganmonkeyboy


Oct 25, 2005, 11:27 AM
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...push out the Jive....

...bring in the Love...


will0


Oct 25, 2005, 11:46 AM
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to complete the sentence: "don't bring them at the same time." I have in the past brought both my son and my dog (but not on the same trip). I feel bringing both at the same time would be too much to keep tabs on while climbing or belaying. Like I read earlier in this thread when I bring my son he is climbing. When I want to do some serious climbing he stays at home. I think it is about respecting other climbers (and their space) as well as the local crag. I also like to go to less crowded spots with the dog so I know when he is exploring he won't be bothering other people.


markc


Oct 25, 2005, 12:11 PM
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What is the lesser evil: Repeating a previously mentioned topic, or resurrecting old threads?

I was wondering the same thing. If you bring up an old topic someone posts, "Why don't you do a search, you big jerk?!?" If you resurrect an old thread it's, "Where the hell did you find that thing? And why didn't you leave it alone? It's X years old! STFU, n00b!"

You're damned either way.


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 12:16 PM
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2000+ hits and 50+ posts in less than 24 hours. Doesn't sound like a waisted thread to me. Not to mention that the similar topics aren't really to similar.


dyno2it


Oct 25, 2005, 12:23 PM
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I was at Stover not too long ago, sitting only 10 feet away from a nursing mother (note- kids usually face up when nursing...) No helmet on the kid or mom. She was apparently an experienced climber (ie should have known better.) A very sharp rock about the size of a deck of cards was kicked off by a climber (who didn't shout "ROCK!") that cut my hand wide open to the bone. I love kids and am a mom. I have raised my kids on climbing but it never would have occurred to me that having a toddler under an actively crumbling cliff would be ok, especially without protection.


redpoint73


Oct 25, 2005, 12:42 PM
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Don't even THINK of bringing your kids unless you are gonna leash them.


Seriously though, I was just out this past weekend and someone's unleashed dog pissed on my partners rope. The owner ( a real nice guy) was real bummed, and total apologetic. And the dog was great besides that, didn't bark too much, or chew my pack or gear. But since urine is one of the few substances people freak about that actually DOES affect rope strength, it was an unfortunate event. Not too much piss got on the rope, and I'm sure it didn't reach the core. So a wash should do the trick. Still, I would understand if someone disliked unleashed dogs at the crag.

And I didn't put the rope in my mouth the rest of the day.


leinosaur


Oct 25, 2005, 12:57 PM
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This weekend I was at the rendezvous at Horse Shoe Canyon Ranch.

What did you expect, idyllic solitude?

In reply to:
The weather was perfect, the rocks were perfect, and everyone had a good time.

Then what are you bitching about, again?

In reply to:
The only thing that got to me were the kids and the dogs.

It's a rendezvous. That means, "y'all come!" Next time get to know the folks with annoying dogs/kids & say a gentle word. Give 'em chocolate, like the wise sage in the other post where you were bitching about drunk people. Make friends, have a positive influence.

Then again, it's easier to bitch in the forums.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=32326

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=22248

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=32357

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=25103

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=35206


markc


Oct 25, 2005, 1:27 PM
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How many times do I have to tell you to leave the damn pet lizard at home? That thing always climbs circles around me and disrupts my fragile serenity!


sidepull


Oct 25, 2005, 2:28 PM
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If your gonna bring your dog/kid to the crag...

. . . then it's your responsibility to clean up their crap (metaphorical or otherwise). And if you don't, don't get mad when someone rubs YOUR nose in it. :shock:


litleclimberchick


Oct 25, 2005, 2:52 PM
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If your gonna bring your dog/kid to the crag...

...keep them leashes!

yes, both kids and pets. :)


zao479


Oct 25, 2005, 5:38 PM
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I wonder who crapped in leinosaur's coffee. This isn't as catastrophic for me as you might have first perceived. Not every discussion is a soap box. I was just looking for some stories and a topic to get people talking.

Deep breath...In with the positive out with the negative.

Besides I take my goats every were I go.


southtxtraveler


Oct 25, 2005, 5:46 PM
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I bring my kid, because I trained him on how to behave, now he loves the sport and is certainly more welcome and respected than I am, go figure!


Partner ctardi


Oct 25, 2005, 5:58 PM
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Rants about dogs are understandable.. they can piss on your gear or steal your lunch.. rants about kids.. lighten up. They have just as much right to be where they are as you do..
Or when the kids are screaming and tired and should be at home sleeping after a long day, but i'm still trying to climb.

What makes you more important then that kid, NEWB?


adrenaline_smack


Oct 25, 2005, 6:51 PM
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i personally love dogs, i always love to see and play around with dogs if even for a few minutes. i would not mind in the least if you brought a well trained dog to the crag. they make everyone happy, unless your the kind who hates cute things like puppies and babies...

....


...



you dont hate babies do you?




dont bring monkeys to the damn crag though! watch the dosage III trailer on big up to see what im talking about


piton


Oct 27, 2005, 1:47 PM
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v5 boulder problem roof and accessing the next horizontal, i realized it wouldn't hold gear. in fact, the entire headwall above the roof was devoid of pro and required some dicey footwork to climb. obviously i made it to the anchors. when i reached the top the guy started hooting that he had never seen anyone do the route before. i late found out it was a Russ Raffa 5.12x route called "hell is real". the best part of the story..

BS it takes gear PG

stick to the bouldering forum


jred


Oct 27, 2005, 2:21 PM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.
http://Nice response to a reasonable statement. You are a prick, you do not care if you are a prick, good for you.


killclimbz


Oct 27, 2005, 3:14 PM
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I'm sick of hearing every one argue about their rights. It is never your right to impose on other people. If you disagree then you might want to look around because I would bet that your friends are tiered of picking you up all the time.
If your headed to your local crag on a Tuesday, that is one thing. But when you know that there are going to be 300+ at the ranch that weekend you have to alter you thinking. When its crazy busy you need to leave the dog, the kid, the pot, and the expletives at home. If this is in no way possible then you need to stay home. It's not your right to be selfish and to enjoy your day at the expense of others.
It's not about what will happen, it's about what could happen. I just don't think that the reward is worth the risk.

Guess what dude? You are living in my world. If you happen to be at a crag I am at, you get to deal with it. If you don't like it leave. That is how it is.
http://Nice response to a reasonable statement. You are a prick, you do not care if you are a prick, good for you.

Ok corky... :roll:


deserteaglle


Oct 27, 2005, 3:49 PM
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This last week I was in Enchanted Rock and had a great time for the most part. The only problems I had was how cold it got at night and my dumbass not having a cold-weather sleeping bag, and a huge group of 10-12 year old kids with only four or five adult supervisors.
I may sound like a dick here, but I thought that those "city kids" had no business being there. They were yelling, screaming, crying all late into the night and in the early mnorning. Am I evil for wishing several of them would have choked or something? :? J/K...kind of.
At the same time there was a man and woman with two kids. They were respectful, quiet, and the kids were learning about the wilds from their parents who were constantly supervising. This is the way that I learned about respect for the outdoors and I see no problems with it. However that other group should have gone to Six Flags or Disneyland or something that is made for large groups of kids and adults who know jack about the outdoors. They had no business being there, though they may have had the right.

It would probably be very good for everyone if everyone's parents took them to do things like that, but the world ain't perfect. People still want to do it though.

There were two people coming down this slope next to my campsite being very loud, and having a lot of problems getting down. I wouldn't usually bother someone that is trying to do something if they don't ask for my help, but I figured they were disrupting my peace and quiet so I would help them out to get em' out of my hair. They were stuck on this slope, and the overweight woman was trying to go down kind of on her butt and slipping alot. I ran up to where they were in my flip flops and noticed that they were wearing expensive new hiking boots, and had actually bought walking sticks. I was nice, did not laugh at them and explained how to stand so you don't slip instead of leaning towards the rock and losing friction, then I showed them a way to get down, and went on my merry way. It was still several minutes before they got down. I am just lucky my mom was a very outdoors type of person and that I have enough navigational sense to not get lost on a trail old ladies hike.


carpediem


May 24, 2006, 10:42 AM
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DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA...

I have an idea lets make a reality show about kids at crags and the dogs the ruin the earth.

Get over it, you were all kids at one point and who know some of you may think you were a dog.

People( I ) will continue to bring my dog to the crags and she will continue to piss and eat your food(AKA Lay at the bottom and chew a stick) for years to come.

Life goes on and people will drive off with just as much road rage as they came in with... Lets talk about climbing, although thsi is rather amusing to read.

BLAH BLAH BLAH GET BACK TO WORK>


cloudbreak


May 24, 2006, 10:54 AM
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RETARD RETARD RETARD

As if this topic hasn't been beaten to death, you had to shit it out from it's 7 month hibernation.


cloudbreak


May 24, 2006, 11:01 AM
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DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA...

I have an idea lets make a reality show about kids at crags and the dogs the ruin the earth.

Get over it, you were all kids at one point and who know some of you may think you were a dog.

People( I ) will continue to bring my dog to the crags and she will continue to piss and eat your food(AKA Lay at the bottom and chew a stick) for years to come.

Life goes on and people will drive off with just as much road rage as they came in with... Lets talk about climbing, although thsi is rather amusing to read.

BLAH BLAH BLAH GET BACK TO WORK>


RETARD RETARD RETARD

As if this topic hasn't been beaten to death, you had to shit it out from it's 7 month hibernation.


krusher4


May 24, 2006, 11:24 AM
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whinny kids (they all are) have not right to ruin my day with their complains to their parents. If mom and dad both climb, one is going to have to stay at home to watch the kids sorry, you freaking choose that life don't ruin what I have chosen for mine.
Dogs, if they are nice an keep quite I have no problem with them. Many crag dogs are great! All kids are whiny little bi*ch's


gnat


May 24, 2006, 12:22 PM
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whinny kids (they all are) have not right to ruin my day with their complains to their parents. If mom and dad both climb, one is going to have to stay at home to watch the kids sorry, you freaking choose that life don't ruin what I have chosen for mine.
Dogs, if they are nice an keep quite I have no problem with them. Many crag dogs are great! All kids are whiny little bi*ch's

You are so right and thus should stay home too.


bluering


May 24, 2006, 12:48 PM
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Didn't we just go through this with the 'dog-haters'....f**k!!!!!

Who is more selfish, someone who brings their dog and/or kid to the great outdoors, or some a-hole who expects HIS experience to always be to HIS liking????

Whiny little bitches, learn some social skills and learn how to deal with other people.


krusher4


May 24, 2006, 1:16 PM
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Didn't we just go through this with the 'dog-haters'....f**k!!!!!

Who is more selfish, someone who brings their dog and/or kid to the great outdoors, or some a-hole who expects HIS experience to always be to HIS liking????

Whiny little b----, learn some social skills and learn how to deal with other people.

yeah!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


telluryan


May 24, 2006, 1:18 PM
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I have a great idea....Let's have somebody start a thread about hating dogs again!!

Maybe you shouldn't leave your lunch out or gear lying around!!

the worst part about this now is that all my posts are now becoming pointless and not even about climbing but responding to these stupid posts. I remember when people used to get bashed for posting threads that have been talked about before.

To all the dog haters, we get the point, let's get past it. Maybe you should talk to the parents or dog owners themselves rather than posting on this site....


mother_sheep


May 24, 2006, 1:48 PM
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I love it when people bitch about this sort of thing. If you're cragging in a popular area do you expect it to be quiet? What about the LOUD, struggling, big boned guy 2 routes down on that wicked burley 5.7, bolt every 2', route with pink tape? Do you complain while he grunts and groans his way up a route?

What about this one:

Stud: "Cutie, I think you'll really dig this route. It's got some SICK moves!"
Sexy, clueless girl (her 2d time out on real rock): "SWEET! I can't wait! It looks RAD!!!!"

Goddess ties in and properly adjusts her rack while everyone watches.
Stud commences belaying while flexing and kissing muslces.

Sexy clueless girl: "Studmunch, this route is kind of hard! I'm not sure I can stick these sick moves."
Stud: "Well, at least you look good trying. Come on baby, grab that jug!"
Sexy clueless girl: "I can't reach the hold you ASSHOLE!"
Stud: "Don't call me asshole you stupid bitch!"
Sexy clueless girl: "Let me down!!! Shut up or I'll never sleep with you again"

And finally there is silence throughout the crag. :lol: Maybe you should try this tactic, especially if you're with a honey.

As far as keeping the dogs and kids quiet, I have nothing to offer. My kids are perfect and my dog is too.


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