|
wilcox510
Jan 10, 2006, 5:01 AM
Post #1 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
looking at some potential places to move next year, Bozeman (more likely) and Missoula (less likely) are on the list. i've been to Kootenay (sp?) canyon, and i've heard a little about Blodgett canyon, and i've heard a bit about Gallatin near bozeman. whats the scoop on climbing in both areas, particulalry Bozeman? im generally a trad climber, and like single pitch and multipitch stuff, generally 5.8 to 5.11 (on really good days only)
thanks
|
|
|
|
|
itakealot
Jan 10, 2006, 5:42 AM
Post #2 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2003
Posts: 382
|
Bozeman pass.
|
|
|
|
|
rockinrock
Jan 10, 2006, 5:51 AM
Post #3 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 44
|
Go to Bozeman...NOW!
Seriously, Bozeman is just better in general. Missoula is a town of Meth addicts, surrounded by small, puny mountains...kind of like Butte but not there yet.
Bozeman is very outdoors oriented and has a great community of climbers in a freaking awesome setting. Oh, and Conrad Anker lives there, so there must be something good about Bozeman. So does Ron Brunckworst, the guy that wrote the guide book for SouthWest Montana mountaineering and other rock climbing guides as well. The place is a center for mountaineering and ice climbing. Alex Lowe also came from Bozeman of course.
Get up in the morning and the Hylite and Spanish Peaks are seen to the south, the Bridgers are North, the Tobacco Roots are West and Frog Rock is East. Galitin Canyon has excelent climbing in an alpine setting. Practice rock is also a nice local spot, as is Neat Rock. Sport routes can be found at the pass, Revenue Flats, Indian Creek and lots of other places. The Beehive also has some greak multipitch alpine trad with tons of possibilities for new routes, well, not tons, but a lot. Just a short ride to the East is the Absaroka Range...WOW! Awesome mountains! Get to Mount Cowan and do some of the best alpine trad ever! Check out the classic Cenntenial route at 5.11. Fire Spire, Thunder Dome, Black Mt., the list goes on. A little longer to the East is the Beartooth Range. Holy CRAP!!! HOLY CRAP!!! Beautiful granite walls in every direction! The possibilities for new routes and old routes are endless!
Ice climbing is even better. It is everywhere in all of the aforementioned places. Hylite Canyon is world class ice, and there is road that take you pretty much right up to it (good/bad?) in about a half hour from town.
Skiing is also world class. Go the poor mans way at Bridger Bowl or ski in style at Big Sky.
Tetons, Yellowstone, Glacier NP...all are within reasonable distance.
Did I mention that the place is breathtakingly beautiful? Did I mention that the people are awesome? That the town is very homey?
Yeah, go to Bozeman.
|
|
|
|
|
schmidty06
Jan 10, 2006, 6:51 AM
Post #4 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 39
|
Yeah, Butte sucks all-around, Missoula isn't as great as people make it out to be, and the real climbing action is around Bozeman and in the Beartooths.
I'm going to hit up Granite Peak, Montana's highest point (which thanks to my cabin can be a day hike) this spring. LOTS of stuff in the East Rosebud Canyon when you get into the Beartooths. I hear that there's a lot of climbing around Red Lodge, too.
|
|
|
|
|
aeray
Jan 10, 2006, 7:05 AM
Post #5 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 53
|
missoula is not so bad as they make it sound. good food, good bars, lots to do besides climbing. there is also some good limestone (mulkey and rattler gulches) not all that commom in the intermountain west. HOWEVER, i suspect that you are actually trying to decide which school to go to.
|
|
|
|
|
schmidty06
Jan 10, 2006, 7:15 AM
Post #6 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 39
|
MSU-Bozeman or MSU-Billings if awesome rock is part of your school deciding skills. If you go to MSU-Billings, there are these wonderful sandstone cliffs that border the northern edge of the entire city. Most of that is bouldering, but some of it can get reasonably long, and who can argue with being able to go on lunchtime climbs thanks to a staircase that is carved along one part of the rims which just happens to be right above the MSU-B campus.
I also think that Billings is pretty much central for most of the outdoorsy awesomeness that you may be looking for. Then again, I may be biased because I live in Billings.
|
|
|
|
|
aeray
Jan 10, 2006, 7:26 AM
Post #7 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 53
|
I lived between belfry and bridger, working on a ranch, for about 7 mths. Billings and Red Lodge may have good climbing, but living in billings would blow goats.
|
|
|
|
|
aeray
Jan 10, 2006, 7:29 AM
Post #8 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 53
|
I lived between belfry and bridger, working on a ranch, for about 7 mths. Billings and Red Lodge may have good climbing, but living in billings would blow goats. Incidentally, East Rosebud is the most tick-infested place I have even been.
|
|
|
|
|
schmidty06
Jan 10, 2006, 8:28 AM
Post #9 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 39
|
There hasn't been that much of a tick problem up there since the 1996 forest fire.
|
|
|
|
|
crackers
Jan 10, 2006, 3:59 PM
Post #10 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2005
Posts: 416
|
I lived in Missoula for about 10 years. It's a very nice town. It might be full of methheads now, but a few phone calls that I just made suggest otherwise.
Missoula was crunchier than Bozo when I lived there, and probably still is. Bozo and Missoula both make fantastic recreational bases. I'd have to say that while the climbing around both towns is very good, none of it is really world class except for hyalite--methinks that describing the ski in as 'the road starts just out of town' is a serious misnomer most winters--blodgett and the alpine stuff that abounds in the state.
If you want to climb long hard trad routes, go somewhere else. If you want to climb alpine stuff, you'll be in heaven. Blodgett has quite a few long moderates...
Get ready to drive ALOT more than you ever knew was possible. When you live in MT, a short drive to climb can easily be 2 hours.
If you're making a decision about where you're going to school, it should be pretty simple: MSU doesnt really have any humanities, and UM doesn't really have any engineering.
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Jan 10, 2006, 4:31 PM
Post #11 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: Seriously, Bozeman is just better in general. Missoula is a town of Meth addicts, surrounded by small, puny mountains...kind of like Butte but not there yet.
Ouch! Unfortunately, meth is everywhere. Can't beat the Bitterroots or Missions near Missoula for alpine. Ok, maybe the Beartooths, Absarokees, Crazies, Spanish Peaks...
In reply to: Alex Lowe also came from Bozeman of course.
Of course...NOT. Alex grew up in Missoula. Although, he wasn't born there (not that he isn't considered a Montana climber, though). Jennifer, I seem to recall, is third generation Montanan and from Missoula as well.
In reply to: Beautiful granite walls in every direction!
Not quite.
In reply to: Ice climbing is even better.
This is very true. Missoula is in the Montana banana belt. Very warm around town, but, town suffers from pretty bad inversions in the winter, making it a tad dismal at times. Ice is pretty sparse but doable. Rainbow Falls, Missions, Bitterroots, etc.
In reply to: Skiing is also world class. Go the poor mans way at Bridger Bowl or ski in style at Big Sky.
Good backcountry either place. But, for better consistant snow, Bozeman. Colder by far.
In reply to: Tetons, Yellowstone, Glacier NP...all are within reasonable distance.
Glacier closer to Missoula of course. Ditto Canada ice, Cascades, etc.
In reply to: Did I mention that the place is breathtakingly beautiful? Did I mention that the people are awesome? That the town is very homey?
Missoulians are pretty friendly as well. Also might depend on what type of "scene" you're looking for. Bozeman is chock full of name brand climbers. In both places, the climbing folks are pretty "clique-y" (as they are anywhere). Might be easier to meet climbers in Bozeman. There is much more of a scene in Bozeman, for sure.
I'm born and raised in Missoula. Went to school in Bozeman. So, I'm partial to both. Since leaving the big sky, I've probably travelled back more to Bozeman than Missoula for the climbing (although more "in between"). But I still like the "feel" of the town of Missoula more. Its changed far less than Bozeman has in the last 20 years. Bozeman has a "Boulder North" feel to it. Missoula, while its grown, still seems the same to me.
If you're considering schools, then the curriculums will probably dictate more where you'll end up, than the climbing, depending on what type of schooling you're looking for. Don't rule out the smaller schools. Billings has climbing (and prof's that climb, even). Ditto Dillon (especially if you like a much smaller town and scene).
They both can be party towns, both have "bar-muda triangles", mucho pub crawling.
For quality climbing close to town, ice and rock, Bozeman gets the nod.
Ahhhh....heavy sigh...
Brian in SLC
(not "Brian from SLC")
|
|
|
|
|
wilcox510
Jan 10, 2006, 6:33 PM
Post #12 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
hmmm. not sure how i posted this in the gearheads forum, but oh well, at least i'm getting good info. school isnt part of the equation, im actually finishing grad school right now in slc (brian in slc - we should get out some time). slc is a pretty decent place, but its pretty big for my taste and i miss the feeling of being able to get into the middle of nowhere fast ( i used to live in jackson, wy). climbing, backcountry skiing, biking (road and mountain), the ability to find some peace and quite...those are some of the biggest factors involved. unfortunately, finding a job we be a factor too....thanks for the info, keep it coming
|
|
|
|
|
crackers
Jan 10, 2006, 6:39 PM
Post #13 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2005
Posts: 416
|
jennifer is from the bitterroot valley near darby AFAIK...
i thought alex went to hellgate.
For skiing, i think missoula is the better base. you can get to Disco and Lost Trail for a day easy, and there is as much or more b/c than bozo.
Dillon is awesome, but very small.
The economy in montana is best described as unhealthy.
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Jan 10, 2006, 7:52 PM
Post #14 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: jennifer is from the bitterroot valley near darby AFAIK... i thought alex went to hellgate.
According to her website, she was born in Msla. And, also according to same, her family homesteaded east of the Bitterroot Valley (Bighole area, methinks).
I thought Alex may have started at Hellgate, and finished up at Sentinel. I'm pretty sure Jennifer went to Hellgate, as I recall telling her one time, "once a Spartan, always a Spartan, but once a Knight is enough". To which she replied, "I'm not sure I'd agree with that". I think his younger bro went to Hellgate, though. I think I played football (little grizzly) with him. Wierd the type of things that stick in your head after all these years...!
In reply to: For skiing, i think missoula is the better base. you can get to Disco and Lost Trail for a day easy, and there is as much or more b/c than bozo.
Yeah, but. Its a drive. For post work backcountry, or, area skiing (like short half day stuff), Bozeman to Bridger is pretty close.
But, you're right. Backcountry very good near Missoula. They don't call it the Five Valleys for nuttin'. Five Valley Bowl....hmmm....
In reply to: Dillon is awesome, but very small.
Yep. Good backcountry skiing, climbing, and no crowds. Not super good climbing close by, but, almost. And, does lack crowds! Patagucci outlet, fine fishing and hunting...
-Brian in SLC
|
|
|
|
|
rockinrock
Jan 10, 2006, 9:55 PM
Post #15 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 44
|
I admit it, I'm very biased towards Bozeman. But for good reason I think.
Missoula does have more sprawl (if you could say anything in Montana is sprawling) and is less scenic from within the town. True, Missoula does have the Mission Mountains and the Bitteroots, but these are easily matched and surpassed by the Spanish Peaks, Hylite Peaks and (I think at least) the Tobacco Roots. Also, all of these ranges near Missoula and Bozeman are not really good for rock climbing/mountaineering due to loose rock. I'll emphasize the Mission mountains because although they look spectacular I've been told that not many people climb on them because the rock is bad. The real place for alpine rock is the Absaroka and the Beartooths, both of which are much closer to Bozeman.
Unfortunatly meth is spreading very quickly accross Montana. I know for certain that Butte is far gone as far as drugs go. Bozeman seems to have less of a drug culture than Missoula. However, Bozeman is also one of the fastest growing towns around, for good reason, and I won't be suprized if meth starts to become a serious problem.
Alright, so Alex Lowe was not born in Bozeman, he was born in Missoula, granted. I would have thought that he would make Bozeman his base for part of his life however, presumably the prodigious climbing part, because of how much he developed Hylite in addition to other climbs in Absaroka/Beartooth? I guess it doesn't really matter...
As for granite walls in the Beartooths being everywhere... Enter by RedLodge around Silver Run Peak and you will see what I mean. Beyond that there may not be huge walls, but everytime I go there I see a new spire or ridge or face that could be done.
|
|
|
|
|
mbg
Jan 10, 2006, 10:06 PM
Post #16 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 372
|
In reply to: Ron Brunckworst
:P
|
|
|
|
|
rockinrock
Jan 10, 2006, 11:35 PM
Post #17 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 44
|
Ron Brunckhorst
Sorry Ron, I slaughtered your name.
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Jan 11, 2006, 7:07 PM
Post #18 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: IMissoula does have more sprawl (if you could say anything in Montana is sprawling) and is less scenic from within the town.
I dunno. I compare Msla today with 20 years ago, Bozeman ditto. I see way more sprawl in Bozeman. Out to Gallatin Gateway, north, etc etc. Look at how many strip malls have cropped up. And, good lard, the R bar is a fern bar. And, a store on main street that sells gormet dog food? Amazing. Be an interesting urban study, though. Wonder what the census has done in the last 20 to 30 years?
Anyone remember Bridger Mountain Sports, (ugh, memory, can't think of the climbing store on the end of main street, and the one just north of the middle of main street, help!).
In reply to: True, Missoula does have the Mission Mountains and the Bitteroots, but these are easily matched and surpassed by the Spanish Peaks, Hylite Peaks and (I think at least) the Tobacco Roots.
Personal preference, to be sure.
In reply to: Also, all of these ranges near Missoula and Bozeman are not really good for rock climbing/mountaineering due to loose rock.
Hmmm...Blodgett and Kootenay (etc) in the Bitterroots? Out by Lolo Pass? Hmmm. Yeah, rock is loose and terrible out there...
In reply to: I'll emphasize the Mission mountains because although they look spectacular I've been told that not many people climb on them because the rock is bad.
Great ice climbing. Yeah, mountaineering can be challanging due to some looseness. But still, spectacular range.
In reply to: Alright, so Alex Lowe was not born in Bozeman, he was born in Missoula, granted.
Nope. Grew up in Missoula, but, not born in Montana. That'd be a good trivia question, eh?
In reply to: As for granite walls in the Beartooths being everywhere... Enter by RedLodge around Silver Run Peak and you will see what I mean. Beyond that there may not be huge walls, but everytime I go there I see a new spire or ridge or face that could be done.
Have you heard of the vigilantes? We're both in big trouble...
Cheers!
-Brian in SLC
|
|
|
|
|
mbg
Jan 11, 2006, 9:00 PM
Post #19 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 372
|
In reply to: Anyone remember Bridger Mountain Sports, (ugh, memory, can't think of the climbing store on the end of main street, and the one just north of the middle of main street, help!).
Bridger Moutain Sports doesn't ring a bell, but I'd guess that Barrel Mountaineering is the shop you're thinking of on the east end of Main and The Great Outdoors was the one just to the north on Mendenhall. If I remember correctly the later closed in 1997 or 1998.
In reply to: Nope. Grew up in Missoula, but, not born in Montana. That'd be a good trivia question, eh?
Alex told a friend of mine that he was born in Frederick, MD. That's only something that stuck in my head because they both had roots in that town.
Edited to add: I think urban sprawl in the Gallatin Valley has gotten absolutely henious (and I grew up in the Denver area). The climbing around both towns is great, but Bozeman's definitely got a big hand up when it comes to winter sports.
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Jan 11, 2006, 9:22 PM
Post #20 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: Bridger Moutain Sports doesn't ring a bell, but I'd guess that Barrel Mountaineering is the shop you're thinking of on the east end of Main and The Great Outdoors was the one just to the north on Mendenhall. If I remember correctly the later closed in 1997 or 1998.
Nah, Barrel is a pretty recent (and welcome!) edition to the Bozone. BMS was almost next to Karl Marx Pizza, down from Joe's Parkway, catty corner of Langford Dorm. Jack's place, methinks. Didn't last long. May have folded in '83 or so? Anyone remember the briefly short lived "Climber's Rag" magazine published in Bozeman? Article about the climbing gym on campus, controversy on guidebooks, etc. Pretty neat. 1984.
Dang it, can't think of the name of the shop. I bought my first pair of plastic boots from them (Kastingers, with Reinhold on the box). Very end of the south and east side of main street. Small place. Straight across the street from what used to be Rosies Cantina (then Terepin Station?).
In reply to: Alex told a friend of mine that he was born in Frederick, MD.
Ding ding. One of my more regular climbing partners was a friend of Alex's, and, his brother was born on the same day (only one year apart) from Alex in the same hospital. By a strange coincidink, they also share the same death date (not counting the year).
In reply to: Edited to add: I think urban sprawl in the Gallatin Valley has gotten absolutely henious (and I grew up in the Denver area). The climbing around both towns is great, but Bozeman's definitely got a big hand up when it comes to winter sports.
Absolutely agree. Henious. Past the woolen mills on the west end of town, there used to be almost nothing all the way to the corner club (original of which burned down years back). Crazy in almost every direction. The strip mall thing blows me away. I hadn't spent much time in town in recent years (climb in Hyalite, but, with a friend who lives near the mouth, never go into town), but, returned for a class reunion. Unreal.
I'll bet Msla hasn't grown the same percentage, but, dunno.
-Brian in SLC
|
|
|
|
|
mur
Jan 11, 2006, 9:59 PM
Post #21 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2006
Posts: 114
|
Is the small shop you are thinking of "Mama's Cache"? Great shop, great people, not sure it it has survived.
To the OP, I would lean towards Bozeman. I loved it, and there is so much to do, that I was forced to drop out of MSU. Yeah, I have always had my priorities straight. Great skiing, great climbing (Rock & Ice), amazing fly fishing, hunting, Mtn. Biking (Do Steve and Steve still have their shop?),...
The sprawl is a bit shocking, but that is one of the indications of what an amazing place it is. Might take a look at Livingston to the East, or even Ennis.
MUR
|
|
|
|
|
mbg
Jan 11, 2006, 10:16 PM
Post #22 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 372
|
brianinslc, you speak of times and places that existed before I lived there. I didn't know that the Korner Club burned, though. Has Boodles opened an establishment there yet?
In reply to: Do Steve and Steve still have their shop?
The best bike shop in town still exists but now there's just one Steve running the place (the clean-cut one).
As for the sprawl, it's not called Bozangeles for nothing!!
|
|
|
|
|
brianinslc
Jan 11, 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #23 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 13, 2002
Posts: 1500
|
In reply to: Brianinslc, I think you are referring to The Ski Surgeon which was a small shop located where Barrell is now. It was open from 77-80. On the other end of Main was The Beaver Pond which also carried climbing gear and where Barry Frost use to work. The Climber's Rag was one issue as I remember, I think David Gearhart(gearhead) put it out.
The Mountain Air? Might be. Yeah, Beaver Pond, bought a pair of downhill ski boots and a backpack from them.
Wasn't there a climbing or backpacking store when the mall first opened, too? North Face retail store?
Yep, Gearhead. Too funny. And the No. Lights was by the Hideaway Lounge. I think Alex worked there for a spell.
Thanks for the stroll down mammery lane!
Brian in SLC
|
|
|
|
|
roshiaitareya
Jan 12, 2006, 12:06 AM
Post #24 of 44
(4639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 345
|
Bozeman, by far has the better climbing/ice climbing/skiing. However, it's hella expensive to live there nowadays. Just give it a few years, and once the boom is over they'll have so many unused condos they won't know what to do with them and you could pick one up for cheap.
Billings is a good place if you need a better job and a cheaper place to live. By no means does Billings have good jobs, or very many of them, but there are more than Bozeman, and the climbing around here is pretty good. I'm partial to the West Rosebud area myself, but hopefully the next few summers I can get out and see what the Beartooths have to offer.
And Alex Lowe lived in Bozeman up until his death. Rumor has it he would start out each day with a 10 mile jog up Hyalite, solo up some .12c climb on practice rock then jog home. I don't know how much of it is urban legend, but it makes for a good story.
If you can get a job, I'd go for Bozeman. I agree with whoever said it's chock full of brand names though. I always felt kind of out of place because I didn't have the latest Arcteryx gear. But when I was going to school there, I could find my way around the people that wear the brand names just to show off the names.
|
|
|
|
|
rockinrock
Jan 12, 2006, 12:35 AM
Post #25 of 44
(4684 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 44
|
AHHA! I am vindicated! Alex Lowe did live in Bozeman for uber amounts of time!
As for urban legends... I heard the same sort of thing, just a little different. He would get up every morning around 3, run 5 miles, solo 5.12 Cardiac Arete at Practice Rock and then do 100 pull ups, and then take his kids to school. I also heard that in the winter he would often do something like hike/run/fly up to Mt. Baldy every morning and then ski down. Another story has him and this wieght lifter in a room, and the wieght lifter shows off and says he bet he can do more pull ups than Lowe. So Alex does 20 one arm pull ups with his left arm because he says his right arm is a little sore.
It all sounds a little overblown to me... One thing for sure is that he is one of those people that didn't need as much sleep as the rest of us do, that he did solo the 5.12 many mornings and that he ran to get there. Beyond that I don't know what to believe.
Anyone else have some urban legends on the guy? Anyone know if they are true?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
