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sidepull
Feb 21, 2006, 8:22 PM
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In reply to: Re: Evolv: another thing that may be bringing them some loyalty is giving so much away. I only have ONE female partner that doesn't have a FREE pair of evolvs. And none of them lead harder than 5.10 trad except maybe 1. A few have more than one free pair!
Are you complaining about companies giving gear away? I hope not.
Are you complaining that climbers that aren't at the cutting edge are receiving free gear? Is there a threshold at which one should receive free gear? (I'm sure there are several reviewers on this site that would consider a trad 5.10 to be a great accomplishment).
Overall, these comments strike me as a bit elitist. Am I misinterpretting them? I think there's a whole slew of reasons for Evolv's popularity as well as Five.ten's or Madrocks for that matter. Singling out "give aways" as the crucial element seems to simplistic to me.
At any rate, I've only seen a pair of Acopa's once at the Buttermilks - they looked exactly like Boreal Stingers which I loved. However, I've never seen Acopa's here in Phoenix and I have a hard time spending more than $50 on shoes now that you can always find a pair on clearance somewhere.
Moreover, the fact that a guy claims that Acopa significantly improved his footwork on a 10b doesn't strike me as compelling evidence that these shoes are all that innovative.
It probably wouldn't hurt Acopa to give a bunch of them away, or start a reviewing process then people could actually see and feel how they work.
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caughtinside
Feb 21, 2006, 8:40 PM
Post #52 of 111
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In reply to: Overall, these comments strike me as a bit elitist.
Hah hah! Kate, you elitist you, you make me sick! :P
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holdplease2
Feb 21, 2006, 9:07 PM
Post #54 of 111
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Ahhh! Sidepull - Thank you for saying that...I can see how that could be taken.
I am simply trying to point out that
1) The behaviour is strange for a gear company, for sure. And incredibly widespread and probably very very expensive. The grades etc were simply to show that you DON'T have to be elite to be treated like gold by those guys, and everybody knows it...a good thing, IMO.
2) If anyone gives away stuff to me (nobody does, really) I get super loyal, super fast. And I tell my friends if the gear is good, even moreso than I would if I bought it myself. I am guessing that the technique is working for them
3) Of course their marketing success depends on more than this one variable. Can you think of another stand out technique that could be tipping the scales for massive success? Ads in the mags, everybody does that...
In summary, I meant to point out that this form of marketing is weird, innovative, and I believe probably a big contributor to a very effective campaign. Of course, if you give away shoes that suck, it wouldn't work. So their shoes must be pretty good!
:)
Now, I'm off to be elitist on my V1 project at the gym. Seriously.
-Kate.
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vegastradguy
Feb 22, 2006, 2:25 AM
Post #55 of 111
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In reply to: 3) Of course their marketing success depends on more than this one variable. Can you think of another stand out technique that could be tipping the scales for massive success? Ads in the mags, everybody does that...
well, they do have that loyal following from their resole days as YosemiteBum....thats how i became an evolv fan. They did the best resole work around and now they make some of the best shoes.
another thing is that Brian actually listens to his customers when he designs the shoes- and i mean the average customer. Just look at the DeMorto- a direct response from consumers (including myself) who requested it.
at any rate, Evolv has done it right- price, fan base, and market exposure....congrats to them, they deserve it.
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sidepull
Feb 22, 2006, 3:45 PM
Post #56 of 111
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In reply to: In summary, I meant to point out that this form of marketing is weird, innovative, and I believe probably a big contributor to a very effective campaign. Of course, if you give away shoes that suck, it wouldn't work. So their shoes must be pretty good! :) Now, I'm off to be elitist on my V1 project at the gym. Seriously. -Kate.
Okay, it came across as more of a critique to me so thanks for the clarification. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an evolv devotee, their shoes don't fit me. Good luck on your project! :D
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74cruzah
Feb 22, 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #57 of 111
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First time poster, although I have lurked for quite awhile.
I have the Lowriders, and although they are sold as a "street" shoe I have climbed several 5.7s and 8s in them while out with beginners. They seemed great, and super comfortable.
I am planning on using them for easy multi-pitch climbs this summer (Mt. Moran, WY).
I imagine that they would also work well on big walls, although I have 0 experience with them.
I guess I stumbled across Acopa, but now that I have had the Kool-aid I think that I will try some of the non street versions when my Mythos bite the dust.
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bachar
Feb 24, 2006, 6:49 PM
Post #58 of 111
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Registered: Feb 19, 2006
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Just a heads up for L.A. climbers! I'm going to give an Acopa shoe demo at Clim X Gym in huntington Beach on Wednesday March 1st at 6PM for anyone who wants to check out the shoes. Come on down - we'll have a good ol' time!
Cheers, jb
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bodyboarder
Feb 24, 2006, 7:08 PM
Post #59 of 111
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Registered: May 19, 2005
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awesome now i can actually get a pair!
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bachar
Feb 24, 2006, 7:16 PM
Post #60 of 111
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Climb X demo folks will also be able to get a first time "check-'em-out" pro deal as well! = if you like certain model you can get 'em for cheap just to get you stoked on Acopa shoes!
See ya' there! jb
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seanb
Feb 24, 2006, 8:19 PM
Post #61 of 111
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Registered: May 28, 2003
Posts: 100
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JB, do you have any dealers in NC? I'd like to try out the Spectre... a friend has a pair and they look solid. He says he didn't quite get the right size.
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organic
Feb 24, 2006, 8:41 PM
Post #62 of 111
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Registered: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2215
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In reply to: Ahhh! Sidepull - Thank you for saying that...I can see how that could be taken. I am simply trying to point out that 1) The behaviour is strange for a gear company, for sure. And incredibly widespread and probably very very expensive. The grades etc were simply to show that you DON'T have to be elite to be treated like gold by those guys, and everybody knows it...a good thing, IMO. 2) If anyone gives away stuff to me (nobody does, really) I get super loyal, super fast. And I tell my friends if the gear is good, even moreso than I would if I bought it myself. I am guessing that the technique is working for them 3) Of course their marketing success depends on more than this one variable. Can you think of another stand out technique that could be tipping the scales for massive success? Ads in the mags, everybody does that... In summary, I meant to point out that this form of marketing is weird, innovative, and I believe probably a big contributor to a very effective campaign. Of course, if you give away shoes that suck, it wouldn't work. So their shoes must be pretty good! :) Now, I'm off to be elitist on my V1 project at the gym. Seriously. -Kate.
Listen to the fellow So. Ill.er(or she once was, correct?) How do you think Microsoft became a giant? Bill Gates gave away/sold for dirt cheap tons of his first versions of MS DOS. Then he had a huge market share. How much Microsoft Advertising do you see? honestly for one of the largest companies in the world virtually none. It advertises for itself because it is everywhere. There are basically three types of people you are going to sell shoes to, n00bs, dirtbags and elite level climbers. n00bs believe anything so just lie a lot and put like wings on the side and maybe extra velcro straps to entice them. Dirtbags won't buy your shoes unless they are being resold by someone who barely wore the pair or they are on super clearance. And elite level climbers it is going to be hard to break into unless you give them to them for free or they are your friend like MR. Well he probably wears them also because you give them to him for free. No offense but none of my questions were ever answered. Why would anyone want to wear Acopa shoes? And what makes them better than my current 5.10 shoes?
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bachar
Feb 24, 2006, 9:03 PM
Post #63 of 111
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Registered: Feb 19, 2006
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FIT + DESIGN + RUBBER in a nutshell, are what make Acopa shoes what they are = BETTER.
Fit is the invisible factor that makes the shoe work properly. You can't see it but when you feel it on your foot, you'll know it immediately.
Design comes from first hand experience in knowing what a climbing shoe MUST DO! + many years of practice making actual shoes that can actually perform these things and not let you down.
Acopa's rubber is far superior than anything I've ever tried. It's got superior "feel" and "friction" in my opinion. Again, you'll know it when your rubber hits the rock. I wouldn't be soloing in this stuff if the rubber wasn't the best there is!
Apart from all this, most people who try Acopa shoes are impressed right away. You just got to try 'em out and see for youself! Hope all this helps someone...Cheers, jb
http://i50.photobucket.com/...bachar/bachar4_1.jpg
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omenbringer
Feb 24, 2006, 10:32 PM
Post #64 of 111
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Posts: 248
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In reply to: Acopa's rubber is far superior than anything I've ever tried. It's got superior "feel" and "friction" in my opinion. Again, you'll know it when your rubber hits the rock. I wouldn't be soloing in this stuff if the rubber wasn't the best there is!
In reply to: Fit is the invisible factor that makes the shoe work properly. You can't see it but when you feel it on your foot, you'll know it immediately. Design comes from first hand experience in knowing what a climbing shoe MUST DO! + many years of practice making actual shoes that can actually perform these things and not let you down.
The Aztecs were my favorite shoes. Unfortunately I have had much difficulty finding a replacement pair and haven't gotten around to ordering them online. REI carried them for a short time but sold out and hasn't stocked them since.
For my money Acopas is the only game in town!!!
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bachar
Feb 24, 2006, 11:26 PM
Post #65 of 111
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Registered: Feb 19, 2006
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omenbringer! Thanks again for the compliments! My rubber seems to last quite a while but I've recently heard your complaint a couple times. Do you climb on rougher rock a lot (i.e. Josh or equivalent)?
I've been basically climbing at the Gorge, Clarks, Deadman's,the Happys and the Milks (Tuolumne in summer) so the rock isn't that abrasive (maybe the Milks). My Sidewinders lasted a year, my B3's about six months.
Out online service is pretty quick especially if you already know your size.
I don't know what happened to REI, the Aztecs sold quite well there. Hopefully they're reading these forums!!!
cheers, jb
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stagg54
Feb 25, 2006, 2:33 AM
Post #66 of 111
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Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 190
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Sorry if I spend my time outside climbing instead of worrying about my profile and making sure its all up to date.
You should try it though, its actually a lot more fun thanjust sitting at a computer waiting for excuses to tear people apart.
By the way the fact that I own and actually use them for climbing should give me the right to voice my opinion on my climbing shoes.
( I don't just sit around and wear them while I browse the internet to listen to people talk about climbing)
In reply to: Tgreene: Stagg54's profile contains some information of level in the past year. As of May, 2005 Stagg54 has recorded two routes. A 5.6 toprope and a 5.9 hangdog. It may be that this was the wrong shoe for the climber at the time. I'd like to hear more on this design, though. It seems to be Acopa's "original idea" and I'm wondering how it translates into reality. Sometimes I like a big flat edge for edging, I might not want a "foot shape." -Kate.
And by the way in case anyone is interested I've been climbing for about a year and a half. I trad lead 5.7 and I've sportled a couple 5.9s I try to go climbing every weekend if the weather cooperates and in the meantime I go to the gym at least once or twice a week. I've led at Seneca and the New along with some other small Western PA crags.
Does that make me qualified enough to comment on my shoes?
( or maybe I should make sure I put in my profile that I climb 5.13a. I'm mean who's really going to know anyway? If that's all people are going to judge you on. And then maybe I won't get blasted by people like you all the time)
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stagg54
Feb 25, 2006, 2:37 AM
Post #67 of 111
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Oh and by the way I don't think comfort has anything to do with rock climbing ability.
So I stand by my claim that the sidewinders are uncomfortable.
As for any of my other claims I guess since I'm not a 5.13a climber, my opinion doesn't really matter that much
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bachar
Feb 25, 2006, 2:52 AM
Post #68 of 111
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Registered: Feb 19, 2006
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stag54!
Yo, sorry the Sidewinders didn't fit for you. They do have a very unique shape that doesn't quite suit everybody. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's no shoe that's going to fit well on every climber's foot. I would bet that if you tried some of our other models you might find one that fits you well.
In a "Nike" poll given to athletes of all sports, over 75% of them said "comfort" was the single most important factor in their shoe that could affect their performance. Although it's not neccessary to have a comfortable shoe, I believe it definitely can help!
peace, jb
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hdiddy
Feb 25, 2006, 2:58 AM
Post #69 of 111
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Registered: Dec 17, 2004
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I have a pair of b3's. Great shoes, comfortable and sticky. great for the overhanging routes.
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omenbringer
Feb 27, 2006, 4:20 AM
Post #70 of 111
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Registered: Sep 19, 2003
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In reply to: omenbringer! Thanks again for the compliments! My rubber seems to last quite a while but I've recently heard your complaint a couple times. Do you climb on rougher rock a lot (i.e. Josh or equivalent)? I've been basically climbing at the Gorge, Clarks, Deadman's,the Happys and the Milks (Tuolumne in summer) so the rock isn't that abrasive (maybe the Milks). My Sidewinders lasted a year, my B3's about six months. |
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stagg54
Feb 27, 2006, 5:51 PM
Post #71 of 111
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Bachar,
It sounds like you work for Acopa and if you do I'm not trying to say anything bad about Acopa. I've heard good things about their shoes in general. The only pair I've ever tried are the sidewinders (I got a really good deal) and I find them very uncomfortable. I also find it hard to edge with the side of my foot because of the way the sole curves up on either side of the sole. I contstantly slip off edges unless I turn my foot to some ungodly angle.
I definitely agree with you quote on comfort, because I do some multipitch trad and hanging out all day in uncomfortable shoes would definitely affect my performance
In reply to: stag54! Yo, sorry the Sidewinders didn't fit for you. They do have a very unique shape that doesn't quite suit everybody. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's no shoe that's going to fit well on every climber's foot. I would bet that if you tried some of our other models you might find one that fits you well. In a "Nike" poll given to athletes of all sports, over 75% of them said "comfort" was the single most important factor in their shoe that could affect their performance. Although it's not neccessary to have a comfortable shoe, I believe it definitely can help! peace, jb |
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bachar
Feb 27, 2006, 6:18 PM
Post #72 of 111
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Stag54! Yeah I own Acopa (with two other partners). Anyway, you're right...those babies (Sidewinders) are gonna fit like a glove or they're gonna be off. It took me two years to adapt my footwork to the shoe! But now I can't switch back. They can do so many things that a flat shoe can't do.
But I do appreciate your comments...thanks again. If you ever need some help getting something more of your liking gimme a shout - I'd be glad to help if I can!
Peace, jb
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crankmas
Feb 27, 2006, 6:44 PM
Post #73 of 111
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Registered: May 7, 2004
Posts: 31
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Hey John, purchased a pair of Chameleons from the site last spring? used for sport and some crack climbing on southeast sandstone, what stood out for me was the construction, they seem quite burly and well made without being chunky and/or heavy. I would and have recommended from my experiences looking forward to obtaining the new lace-up model soon. Take care.
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tgreene
Mar 3, 2006, 10:00 PM
Post #74 of 111
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Registered: Oct 22, 2003
Posts: 7267
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I just received my new Sidewinders today, and I have some pretty interesting thoughts on them...
Everything you have ever tried to convince your feet of in all of your years of climbing, will be tossed out the window once you slip your foot into this shoe... Over the years, we've been conditioned to have to curl our toes into un-Godly and painful positions, in order to gain maximum performance. With the Sidewinder, your foot is actually pre-positioned (for lack of a better word) and supported in what at first seems to be a really uncomfortable position. Oddly enough though, each of the positions where you typically have a knuckle bulge, is PRE-BULGED and ready for your foot.
Imagine your favorite pair of properly stretched and faded jeans. Now imagine that weird feeling that you first get when you put them on after washing them and hanging them out to dry... At first they feel stiff and uncomfortable, but gradually they take on a life of their own, and before you know it, you forget all about that "strange" feeling that they can only have from drip drying.
Sure, the first thing you'll probably be thinking when you lace up the Sidewinders is, "What could I have possibly been thinking..?" Then you'll stand up and take a few steps in them and suddenly your thoughts of insanity will turn to a smile and you'll be saying to yourself "Ohhhhhhh, n.i.c.e!" ;)
As much as I'm in love w/ my Chameleon's, I can immediately see where these have much greater edging capabilities, and should be superior in cracks.
The first couple pics are a comparison to my Chameleons. The 3rd pic shows the Chameleon, Sidewinder and my wifes' Auroras. The white rings in the 4th and 5th pics show where the special pre-formed knuckle bulges are.
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa1.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa2.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa3.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa4.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa5.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa6.jpg
http://www.great-river.com/pix/acopa/acopa7.jpg
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nevenneve
Mar 3, 2006, 10:39 PM
Post #75 of 111
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Registered: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 454
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The local gym had a demo of these on Wednesday and I tend to agree with you. I have never had a pair of shoes that actually fit. I quit buying lace-ups because the eyelets would have to be touching in order to be tight enough. With the exception of Boreal's which I oddly didn't care for, considering my enjoying wearing the somewhat similar Acopa's. The sidewinders were by far my favorite of those I tried. Edging being a very positive mark in their favor I wonder if the sole thickness is fairly uniform, or if the shape relied on some creative whittling?
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