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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 2:58 PM
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I just heard that Krahlick has been purchased by a Gun club and is closed to climbing. Some climbers have had their gear confiscated, even. Anyone else have any info on this?
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microbarn
May 1, 2006, 3:19 PM
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I have no information, but I can't say I am too sad to hear if it goes. I think I have only ever had one good experience there. All other experiences have been remarkably bad.
Large groups are always hanging around the main area. People crap onto the top of the routes. Breakins have reportedly gotten worse.
My only regret is that the people causing my previous bad experiences may spread to other crags now.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 4:00 PM
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I bet I know exactly who it was, too. I've only had bad experiences there when one certain group brings clients there (who will remain unnamed). They felt they owned the place and didn't control their client's actions. One incedent I remember kids throwing nalgenes off the top, and one of our kids almost getting hit. After we asked them to stop, their guide had some words to share. We kindly told him where he could stick his gear. It was always the same group. Other folks were very nice. But we were usually there alone most of the time. We guided small groups, 6-10 people, and climbed there recreationally as well. Tuesdays were usually the quietest.
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microbarn
May 1, 2006, 5:27 PM
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I don't mean to rag on big groups. My one experience there that was good had a very large group. They were excellent crag company.
I am not sure what to blame it on. I just blame the entire crag.
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machino
May 1, 2006, 5:58 PM
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I have to agree with microbarn. Although I hate to see it go, it was always a circus there. Besides, in my honest opinion, I think there are much better crags within a short distance of here, and lots of them are undeveloped.
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markc
May 1, 2006, 5:58 PM
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I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware?
I'm having an exactly opposite emotional reaction from microbarn. I adore Krahlick. My first lead on gear was there. There are a nice mix of routes, from confidence-building routes that are good for beginners to things that will thrash you (or at least me). Depending on the day, it could definitely be crowded. I've also had the crag almost entirely to myself on some weekends. I generally find it a lot more mellow that some areas of Coopers. If it's permanently closed, it's a very sad day indeed.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: I don't mean to rag on big groups.
My favorite time down there was when I was about 5 feet from the top, and an apache helicopter came up from behind the trees pointed right at me. It was fully loaded w/ missiles and everything. Later I found out that the military does their helicopter maneuvers in that gully. Frickin sweet times. We even saw an old bubble copter, like in MASH, down there once.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware? |
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markc
May 1, 2006, 6:25 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I have no other info, and appreciate hearing about this. Is it posted as no trespassing, or are climbers being caught unaware? From what I heard, word of mouth that is, is that it is posted as no trespassing/hunting. I'm hoping someone has been there recently who knows first hand.
Okay, thanks. By the by, I've never seen a helicopter at Krahlick. It must have been a surreal experience.
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chronicle
May 1, 2006, 6:36 PM
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This is where I learned to climb. I was looking forward to going down there this year just to see how different it looks after being to so many other crags.
I wonder where wonder where the climbing shop (the place I took my climbing class) will hold their outdoor classes now. Guess I'll have to stop in and ask them.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 6:41 PM
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In reply to: I wonder where wonder where the climbing shop (the place I took my climbing class) will hold their outdoor classes now. Guess I'll have to stop in and ask them.
Edit: spelled w/ a k.
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microbarn
May 1, 2006, 6:48 PM
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Yea, people at Exkursion should know. I have to make a trip out there tonight. I will have to let you all know what they say tomorrow.
Dan
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 7:03 PM
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Sweet. I keep forgetting you are right down there.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 7:45 PM
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I just got an email from someone who has first hand info.
They said it is indeed posted w/ no trespassing signs, and Fred from Exkursion has been in contact w/ the owners trying to work out access permission, but it isn't looking good.
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chronicle
May 1, 2006, 7:59 PM
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I didn't want to drop names, but since it has already been said, it seems like most people knew who I was talking about anyway.
That is a big hit to Fred and Exkursions. For a beginner class, that place had the perfect setup for topropes, teaching how to set up a toprope, etc. I'm sure if they can't get access, that they can find another crag. That area has so much rock, they really wouldn't have to go far.
Thanks for the update arretinator. I have to stop in at Exkursions tonight, so if I hear anything different, I'll post it up.
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arrettinator
May 1, 2006, 8:07 PM
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Yeah, that sucks. Fred is a nice guy, and that mustache is frickin awsome. We ran into them a bunch of times down there when he was teaching classes. Always great experiences.
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jkarns
May 1, 2006, 8:54 PM
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Is this place worth working for?
Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion.
What options were discussed?
Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources.
Josh
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microbarn
May 1, 2006, 10:30 PM
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In reply to: Is this place worth working for?
The AREA is worth fighting for. Krahlick is great rock with a wonderful view. The people that frequent the area are what ruins the experience.
In reply to: Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion. What options were discussed? Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources. Josh
I can't answer any of these yet. I am sure you could probably find out much more through a direct conversation with people at Exkursion. http://www.exkursion.com/
Like I said, I will see if I can't get more details shortly. Many of your questions seem like they should be directed to the people with the answers. I get the feeling that any answer I give will lead to more questions. Then I would be serving strictly as a go between.
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microbarn
May 2, 2006, 2:44 PM
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most everything came out in the thread yesterday.
Exkursions contacted the land owners, and they did their best. They have decided the best action for climbers to take is to avoid the area. Let the current owners learn that it isn't the climbing community that ruins the area. After they learn that climbers are not the problem, they might be more willing to let us back into the area.
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arrettinator
May 2, 2006, 4:53 PM
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Thanks Dan.
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tanderson
May 2, 2006, 11:42 PM
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Krahlick was purchased by Joe Hardy of 84 Lumber and it is officially posted with no tresspassing signs... Don't know about enforcment, but I'm sure it is probablly being enforced knowing Joe. Sure is sad to see so many people complaining about crags and not doing anything to improve their current condition. Krahlick is a nice crag its crowded because most people tend to stay on the same 4 or 5 routes at the main area. The GOOD routes were hardly ever climbed. What a shame to see people say o well it was crowded and not that great anyhow.
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microbarn
May 2, 2006, 11:56 PM
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What can I do to help the area stay open?
The only person I talked to other than you who really seemed to know things requested that the owner not be bothered with more people asking permission to climb. Since I am not in the know, I can only respect the request to stop bothering the owner.
If there is something I can do, please tell me.
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cincysam
May 3, 2006, 2:09 AM
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I climbed at Krahlick a few times when I was in college at Pitt (99-00). I always thought it was a great place - and has some of the tallest cliffs near the Pittsburgh area, if I recall. And when I was there, there was never anyone else around.
Sad, the nicest climbing area here near Cincinnati is closed too. What's up with landowners and their hatred/fear of climbers??? Sigh...
-s
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chronicle
May 4, 2006, 3:24 PM
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In reply to: Is this place worth working for? Is anyone else involved in the discussions other than Fred? Not that I have anything against him, but from past experience, I believe it can be good to have a small number of representatives in any kind of discussion. What options were discussed? Can the Pennsylvania Alliance of Climbers help? Our base is a little far from there, but we do have many resources. Josh
[Begin]
For those that don't know, the PAC is a grassroots organization, that has the full support of the Access Fund and was initially formed with grant money from the Access Fund. This organization has done a lot for the climbing in central PA and has wanted to help with some of the situations in Western PA. However, the Access Fund Regional Coordinator (you can find the name of this person on the Access Fund website, I won't drop names here) had a HUGE problem with the PAC getting involved. We (the PAC) wanted to try to help with the Projects Area at McConnell Mills, we wanted to do a clean up at Beartown Rocks (which I wound up doing alone anyway), we wanted to work on the situation at Derry High Rocks, etc. I met with the Regional Coordinator and got his take on everything, which was basically, "Keep you 'kiddie' group away." Afterward he called Josh (the president of the PAC) and literally yelled at him for trying to get involved.
Now the other two Access Fund Regional Coordinators for PA are very supportive of the PAC. They have played major roles in slide shows and working with the PAC on access to areas like Safe Harbor.
So, my hats off to the Access Fund Western PA Regional Coordinator. Three areas that I know of (The Projects, Derry High Rocks, and now Krahlick) have been closed while you've held your position AND you have smited the help of an ACCESS FUND SPONSERED ORGANIZATION (the PAC). Good job. Maybe you should run for President.
[End]
I have always supported the PAC, both financially and as an active member. Honestly, I think that this organization should get involved and I feel confident that we could be successful in regaining access. I will help organize fund raisers, slide shows, "town hall" meetings, whatever it takes. But let's not loose this area because we didn't try. If we at try our hardest and still loose access, then at least we can say we tried.
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fleamodee
May 5, 2006, 1:54 AM
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The PAC has opened up govenor stables. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a good boulder field, and the PAC is to thank. Have they done much else??? Now the access fund regional reps from east PA on the other hand have done nothing but spread rumors about privately owning areas in central PA, doesn't sound productive to me, as far as I'm concerned they can stay the Fuck away from west PA. As far as access to Western PA areas are concerned there are bigger fish to fry than the McConnells mills, Derry, and Krahlich. Yeah they are good in there own way, but if the resources are going to be used there are much better options out there.
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