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vegastradguy
May 30, 2006, 6:15 AM
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wow....interesting. i've posted elsewhere about trimming the rack-- its tough, especially when you're new or when you've got enough experience to climb confidently but not enough to be sure of yourself without your full rack.
personally, i always start with a base rack-
1 set of BD stoppers (including #'s 1-5)
1 each- blue, green, and yellow alien
BD cams from .5 to #3
10 trad draws and 3 over the shoulder slings plus assorted accessory crap
from there, i either add or subtract gear accordingly:
if its really easy and i expect to be moving very quickly, i'll trim further and leave the smallest stoppers, 4 draws, and the aliens on the ground.
if its tough or an unknown quantity, i'll double up on the appropriate pieces. [if its unknown, i double up on green alien, purple camalot, and green camalot- these are sizes i suck at and like to have extra pro for]
if its really unknown (like a FA or the like), i'll almost always bring the #4 camalot-- better to have it and not need it. i'm also more likely to double up on everything if its a FA, mostly because i like to have alot of options when whats ahead is completely unknown.
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superbum
May 30, 2006, 6:42 AM
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In reply to: Are modern racks excessively big? Do you find that as you buy more gear it gets increasingly harder to leave kit at the bottom of the route? Would carrying less gear make you lighter, more nimble and therefore more confident, requiring less protection?
I had a similar thought just recently while pre-racking for a multipitch in Red Rocks the next day. I was certain I wanted a single set of cams to 3.5" single set of stoppers minus the biggest ones and draws, biners, etc. I was trying to decide on what (if any) doubles to bring. I have a full set of doubles except for one size...this fact was making it hard not to take any of them, especially two shiny new aliens and a new blue camalot.
In the end I decided to take doubles of my aliens because they are light and low profile. Also, chances are better w/ aliens that I might not even need to put a draw on them, thus conserving more gear. I left behind all my hand size doubles because, even though that is the easiest size to "spot" for a placement, it is also the easiest climbing, therefore I can run it out if needed. I did take a 4" but the second ended up carrying it the whole way.
Though I like nuts, I don't like the fact that they need a quickdraw every time. Placing a ton of nuts on a pitch is a sure way to eat up your draws as well as a little extra time. Unless you are in an alpine arena, where weight and space matter a lot, I think one set of nuts is plenty.
What I tend to do is carry too much OTHER stuff: a knife, double length slings, extra biners, prusik cords, a quicklink or rap-ring...extra clothes, water, decent shoes...THAT is where your weight and bulk come from. I've never needed prusiks, or a knife, or quicklink on a multipitch...YET. But I'd rather have to run it out than not be able to retrive my stuck rope while the sun goes down.
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azrockclimber
May 30, 2006, 11:10 AM
Post #28 of 61
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I often carry too much gear...however...somtimes what seems like too much at the bottom turns into not enough 1/2 way up.
I basically caryy doubles unless I know that i need triples for some reason. I rarley carry above a 3 or 3.5 unless I know I need one. If I have no idea what is up there at all (which is very rare)... I carry everything. It just makes you stronger.
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cornish_retard
May 30, 2006, 11:24 AM
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Just been looking at this web page. Some useful suggestions on what to carry. There are other pages of interest on the site including how to 'stack' hexes in off-widths and using them as tricams (shady!)
http://www.psychovertical.com/?rockrackgear
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petsfed
May 30, 2006, 12:21 PM
Post #30 of 61
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Carrying a smaller rack of "core" pieces will make you a stronger and more attentive climber. I rarely carry more than 8 cams on any route unless I know I'm going to need them. Couple that with a single set of nuts and I'm ready to rock. I've done 1200 ft routes onsite (in fact without any beta even about the descent) with that rack and never felt unnecessarily run out. And not 5.6s either. Technically, it was only 6 pieces. By the end of the first route like that, every single piece we had had been placed at least once. After that, we started placing less unnecessary gear.
For the average route I carry:
6 cams from yellow alien to #3 camalot
1 full set of rocks
12 slings (usually 8 full length, 4 quickdraws, although I'll swap out draws for doubles).
A #9 hexcentric (just trust me).
That's it.
I add or subtract when I know more about the route or the nature of the area. In the creek, I may pack 8 of the same size, and no slings or nuts. In the flatirons, I'll leave the cams behind and cut the number of slings in half. In Eldo I'll throw on an extra set of nuts.
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getsomeethics
May 30, 2006, 2:27 PM
Post #31 of 61
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i have found that i have gradually been taking less on average, but it all depends on where you are mentally, physically and the type of rock etc etc. standard now is a 1 set of cams and 1 set of nuts. a set of cams is BD 0.5-3, plus a green, blue and yellow alien.
i used to bring double that for everything.
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cchildre
May 30, 2006, 3:07 PM
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I spent two weeks in J-tree this winter, and my rack tendices seemed to evolve as the trip progressed. Started off carrying everything, and as things progressed I found myself thinning down my rack. Partly because I became accoustomed to the area and what I like to use. Also, my trad leads were almost doubled in that time and just became more comfortable. I was using a borrowed rack 2nd rack from a buddy which lacked in the variety of gear. It really forced me to economize and plan for the placements to come. What caught me out, was on 'The Swift' with two pitches, I failed to anticipate the gear lost to the midway belay, and the top belay left me with no cams, on a crack that would not take nuts or hexes. Luckily, my buddy proceeded me and he had all the excess gear for the anchor. Not making that mistake again. All said, you can never have too much gear. Sometimes those chimney pitches, you need the extra bulk to achieve the wedge effect! Nice thread.
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tradrenn
May 30, 2006, 10:24 PM
Post #33 of 61
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In reply to: What a n00b rack.
STFU REDNECK
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tradrenn
May 30, 2006, 10:41 PM
Post #34 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: I usually cary to sets of stoppers, 5 aliens ( wish I had 10 ) and 9 camalots Every time I leave someting on the ground I endup needing that piece for an anchor. Something to think about for you. The irony is that on average I will have 10 or 12 draws on me but I will carry about 30 pcs on my rack. Wow. That's a ton of gear to bring on just about any climb. I just about always bring one set of bd stoppers, dmm peenuts, and grey, yell, blue, and red WC zeros, and .5, .75, 1, 2 maxcams. If I see myself needing it i'll bring the number 3 as well. 9 trad draws is usually all i need.
This rack is allready trimed down from what it used to be 4 years ago.
It might seem like much but I also try to put two pitches together,(mostly 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 at Gunks) just so I can get more climbing done in one day, it works pretty good so far.
I will agree with other users saying that the more you climb the more you trim, it seems to be happening to me too.
For Dirtineye: this is how intelligent people interact over the internet.
Maybe, just maybe you could read into it and learn something.
Good day Dirt.
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brutusofwyde
May 31, 2006, 12:55 AM
Post #35 of 61
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climb safe.
climb smart.
less gear.
more heart.
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dirtineye
May 31, 2006, 1:50 AM
Post #36 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: What a n00b rack. STFU REDNECK
LOL, neck may be red, but at least I can climb.
you're still at 5.7, right? And climbing with nothing but nuts n cams...
Figures.
Maybe you'd like to help me shut up?
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tradrenn
May 31, 2006, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What a n00b rack. STFU REDNECK LOL, neck may be red, but at least I can climb.
Yes you can, but only in Alabama.
How was "The Eye" at JT for ya ?
In reply to: you're still at 5.7, right?
Hello there smart ass, you think you will piss me of with this ?
Lame, very lame, you can do better than that, can't you ?
I'm not one of this crazy people that buy a rack and goes and leads 5.8
5.8 this year and very happy with it BTW.
In reply to: And climbing with nothing but nuts n cams...
Is there anything better than stoppers, passive pro rules man
I know you want to sound smart, right about now, but it is not working, not on me at least.
I also climb with Aliens, Hexes, tricams, you know all the staff like that.
Figures what ?
You and other people can say what you wish about the grades that I climb.
In reply to: Maybe you'd like to help me shut up?
Hope this will help you to shut up.
Just so you know:
If you stop calling people morons, I will stop calling you a redneck.
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cosmiccragsman
Jun 1, 2006, 2:19 AM
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ok boys,(Dirt and Trad) time to go to your separate corners :D
Thru my years of climbing, there have been times when I carried too
much gear, and many times when I didn't carry enough. I usually ran into that problem on multi_pitch.
In areas like JT, (my backyard) where most climbs are a pitch or less,
I would carry a standard rack,for me, and then add or subtract to
the rack, as I saw fit, by studying the route.
My standard rack is bigger now, since this aged body doesn't like long falls. :)
IMHO, Everyone should carry whatever gear they need to feel, and be safe.
Cosmiccragsman
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dirtineye
Jun 1, 2006, 2:41 AM
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Nah, Mr 5.7, 5.8-- after HOW many years?--weenie climber can keep right on.
HEHEHE, my rack has been places yours will never go trashrent.
In grade and FA.
Hell why am I bothering with you? you can't even get your rack story straight, first it's all nuts and cams, then later, it's other stuff too. BTW chuckles, aliens ARE cams, that was a bit redundant, but then, n00bs don't really know what they are talking about, do they?
Go ahead, try again, you'll lose.
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fixednut
Jun 1, 2006, 2:43 AM
Post #41 of 61
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I always take my #5 big bro, a .45 caliber hand gun, and a vial of holy water.
Just in case.
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tanner
Jun 1, 2006, 3:26 AM
Post #42 of 61
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I don't mind taking a little extra on new climbs or climbs that I can't read from the ground.
My standard rack: camalots .5-3 and tcu's blue to orange(2 blues) a half rack of nuts(leave all the big ones on the ground) 6 or so draws and what ever for slings.
Running out of gear can be stress full! But if I find my self with too much gear on my harness, I simply place extra at good stances.
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tradrenn
Jun 1, 2006, 3:34 AM
Post #43 of 61
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In reply to: HEHEHE, my rack has been places yours will never go trashrent.
Invalid argument.
Don't be ignorat man, don't say never, you have not a clue where will I and my rack go + I have been invited to do some FA next year, shut up.
In reply to: In grade and FA.
Give me 2 more years and I will royally kick your ass and your BS attitude.
How many FA in Alabama do you have ?
In reply to: Hell why am I bothering with you? you can't even get your rack story straight, first it's all nuts and cams, then later, it's other stuff too. BTW chuckles, aliens ARE cams, that was a bit redundant, but then, n00bs don't really know what they are talking about, do they?
Yes I do own "other staff too" it doesn't mean I don't know my rack, diff areas require diff rack, you should know that, it is pretty simple to understand if you had a brain, do you have one ? I think it is kind of obvious that Aliens are cams, if you weren't a noob yourself then you would know that that goes without saying.
In reply to: Go ahead, try again, you'll lose.
Yo Dirt I tried again, what do you have on me that I don't know ?
Hint for you: NOTHING
At this opportunity I would like to extend my congratullation to you.
You are the biggest M. on this web site.
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tradrenn
Jun 1, 2006, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok boys,(Dirt and Trad) time to go to your separate corners :D Cosmiccragsman
Thank you for your post, that was hilarious.
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dirtineye
Jun 1, 2006, 1:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok boys,(Dirt and Trad) time to go to your separate corners :D Cosmiccragsman Thank you for your post, that was hilarious.
yeah yo uare blakc and blue, adn reeling, and you don't even know it.
Your information about me is not even close to correct, hahaha!
Idiot.
You are boring.
Ivited to do an FA next year??? LOL, my 6th lead ever was an FA, found it myself, didnt need an invite from anyone.
MAYBE in two more years you will do what I did in my first six months, but I doubt it.
Lets's see, there is a phrase for this moment, what is it?
Oh yeah, STFU n00b.
Now i'm leaving, you can have the last word, but when the dust settles, you'll still be what you are-- pathetic.
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heiko
Jun 1, 2006, 1:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok boys,(Dirt and Trad) time to go to your separate corners :D Cosmiccragsman Thank you for your post, that was hilarious. yeah yo uare blakc and blue, adn reeling, and you don't even know it. Your information about me is not even close to correct, hahaha! Idiot. You are boring. Ivited to do an FA next year??? LOL, my 6th lead ever was an FA, found it myself, didnt need an invite from anyone. MAYBE in two more years you will do what I did in my first six months, but I doubt it. Lets's see, there is a phrase for this moment, what is it? Oh yeah, STFU n00b. Now i'm leaving, you can have the last word, but when the dust settles, you'll still be what you are-- pathetic.
Haha, dirtyeye, can't believe that an experienced, seasoned climber like you needs to diss other people b/c of their climbing gear, and then brag about grades, rack size or number of FAs. Money (if I had any that is) buys me about any rack I want, I have more than 12 FAs of my Kitchen Table North Face, Laundry Hill and The Couch, and in Australia I'd climb 15's. So:
:wtf:
:roll:
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cchildre
Jun 1, 2006, 1:59 PM
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LMFAO, you guys are fighting like an old married couple! Sweet!
Dirtineye, I would have to agree that this falls into the 95% you speak of in your personal description.
I am waiting for one of you to tell the other that his dad can beat up the others!
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok boys,(Dirt and Trad) time to go to your separate corners :D Cosmiccragsman Thank you for your post, that was hilarious. yeah yo uare blakc and blue, adn reeling, and you don't even know it. Your information about me is not even close to correct, hahaha! Idiot. You are boring. Ivited to do an FA next year??? LOL, my 6th lead ever was an FA, found it myself, didnt need an invite from anyone. MAYBE in two more years you will do what I did in my first six months, but I doubt it. Lets's see, there is a phrase for this moment, what is it? Oh yeah, STFU n00b. Now i'm leaving, you can have the last word, but when the dust settles, you'll still be what you are-- pathetic. |
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reg
Jun 1, 2006, 2:04 PM
Post #48 of 61
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In reply to: I always bring everything I have. But I have not been leading long, so I do not always know what I might need. At this point, I would rather have way too much, than not enough.
me too!
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dirtineye
Jun 1, 2006, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I always bring everything I have. But I have not been leading long, so I do not always know what I might need. At this point, I would rather have way too much, than not enough. me too!
As they say in Bob's church:
Too much is ALWAYS better than not enough.
And again, also relevant to climbing:
MORE SLACK!
I begin to think Bob must have been a climber.
You other guys: Yeah, I should not have said anything. But what I said is true. Sue me.
YOu see, at some point, anythign you say will offend someone. IF I talk casually about climbing with MOST of my partners, mentioning them by name, I get accused of spraying. IF I say, " I don;t know where the crux is, it was all about the same", to someone who stuggles at that grade on that climb, they are likely to get offended, in fact, a friend of mine did just that once.
So, if you think I am going to moderate what I talk about to try to satisfy a bunch of wank-balls, think again.
I have helped more beginners learn to climb safely than most of you, they usually appreciate that, so, if you don't like what I write, don't read anything I post, but, in any case keep your Fvcking mouth shut when you don't know what yo uare talking about, and I won't try to bit your head off.
I hope that is clear.
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up_up_up
Jun 1, 2006, 7:15 PM
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as it has been said i totally agree that it depends on your level and your confedence in yourself to do a route. If you have done it several time you may know what gear you need. if its your first time i would bring most of my rack that i thought i would need.
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