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dilettante
Jun 18, 2006, 8:31 PM
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6 lockers is silly for a TR set up (but at least it's not dangerous). If you're using a redundant anchor you don't need lockers on every piece, whether they're pins, bolts, trees, whatever. You need one to two lockers to connect the rope with the anchor. You weren't buying an ATC or other belay device, right? So the employee would not assume that you were using one for that.
Every weekend at the Gunks I see somebody doing something crazy and have to decide if I should say something or not. Since the time I watched a guy using a single nut for an anchor and chose not to say anything and then watched him fall and break his leg, I have tended to err on the safe side and just mention the problem to whoever it is. I try to be nice and if they ignore me I walk away. At least it clears my conscience. An aside but maybe the rei guy felt similarly. who knows?
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zara
Jun 18, 2006, 9:00 PM
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Yeah sometimes you get that it can be weird. The few times i've been in REI the guys have been pretty cool. I live in NYC now and surpisingly the people in my local EMS are usually completely knowledgeable about the NYC's bouldering scene and always give me some locations to try out. They always are eager to know where my secret spots are that i've found around the upper manhattan area.
Sometimes you get asshole store clerks sometimes you get good ones. Your man was just an arse oh well :)
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boondock_saint
Jun 18, 2006, 10:22 PM
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I'm sure there are people at REI and other outdoors stores that know their shit, but I have yet to meet one.
One time at REI I was looking at some gear and some guy was looking for a way to set-up a toprope. So the kid pulls out a pulley and hands it to the guy like "this will probably work" I sent the guy to our local gym to learn about setting up climbing walls.
Another time my friend was buying a helmet and the guys (several of them) would respond with "It probably says that on the box" to damn near any question that went beyond "how much is this one?"
But what can you expect when most places hire kids ...
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rocketsocks
Jun 18, 2006, 10:59 PM
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6 lockers might be overkill for a TR setup, but I think that's beside the point here. Besides which, it's his perogative how he climbs and how safe he wants to be. When you go into a retail store you expect, and I would say demand, to be treated with respect. And not to have your decisions called into question at every step. That's not the way to run a store, nor is it even the way to educate those people who do lack knowledge. It seems to me as if, especially in the retail environment, people are less and less able to strike up pleasant conversation. And that's what's needed. Not an interrogation, just a casual conversation.
I'm sure working retail isn't easy, and if you have great interactions with 99 customers during the day but screw up interacting with 1, the 99 won't remember that at all, but the 1 will. But that's always been the nature of the beast and it seems to me that the ratio isn't even close to that.
What I hate, personally, is how the clerks bug you when you don't need help but they're never around when you do. It's really obvious how to avoid this too. When someone is walking around at a normal walking pace, when they stop at a shelf and quickly glance over it, find what they're looking for, put it in their basket, and move on, they probably don't need help. When they are standing in one spot for a while and are looking around, they probably do need help. Is this rocket science?
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rockscaler2
Jun 18, 2006, 11:19 PM
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I went to the REI by I-10(i think) in or by Tempe Arizona to get some boots, crampons and some gaiters.... these 2 hippie chicks helped me and I asked if these boots were crampon compatable and they said yes. The boots fit and I was leaving and they said you're so easy usually people ask 1000 questions so I think thats why they're like that cause 70% of their customers are beginners.... Well maybe :lol:
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tomm_dogg
Jun 19, 2006, 12:44 AM
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so, i'm a newcomer to this forum, but i might as well pop my cherry by chiming in on this discussion with my opinion and while i'm at it, throw in what will probably be a controversial little story.
my opinion on emplyees at rei or other outdoors stores is that how annoying they are depends on how much you know about the activity you are shopping for. for instance: i have been skiing since i was 3, climbing four years now, and just got into biking last summer. i hardly ever bother talking to a store employee about skiing gear, because i have enough knowledge and experience that they are rarely helpfull. with climbing stuff, it's about half and half depending on how much research i've done before showing up at the store. with biking, they could tell me just about anything, and i'd nod appreciatively ("really, it's better to have the handlebars behind your head? thanks!").
and if you can argue about how many locking and non-locking biners to use while toproping, what do you have to say about this:
my dad (happy father's day) wanted to give me a piece of protection because he knew i was starting to lead, so he gave me the BIG green camalot, the one bigger than a child's head. upon seeing it, i knew it was way too big to be usefull often if ever, so made sure not to open the sealed bag it came in, and brought it back to rei. i know people are very sensitive about "used" climbing gear, so i carefully asked the guy at customer service if they would allow me to exchange this obviously unused gigantor camalot for a couple normal sized pieces. the dude gave me the condecending look many have described in this thread and said:"ok..." and as he began entering the transaction into the computer, shook his head and muttered: "it's a shame... we'll have to destroy this perfectly good piece of equipment..." from his attitude, you would've thought i was asking him to murder puppies.
"destroy it?" i asked
he glared at me and replied: "would you trust a piece of equipment if you didn't know it's history?"
"but it's in its original packaging and you just said it's perfectly good..."
"listen, no real climber would ever trust used equipment, and you should know that."
at that point he gave me the receipt for store credit, so i took off without continuing the conversation and picked up a camalot 1 and 2, recommended as the most usefull sizes in cali by a different, much more friendly store employee who chuckled when i told him about my dad naively giving me the green monster. this second employee didn't have a problem with me returning the camalot.
so should i feel bad? was rei really gonna throw this unused camalot into a dumpster? was i cheating the co-op? and what did this guy want me to do? let the thing collect dust in my closet? sell it on ebay? and if rei couldn't legally resell the camalot, isn't that what would probably happen to the thing anyways (seller: condecendingreiemployee)? and if it's such a sin to return climbing gear, why don't they make it a policy to not accept returns on any climbing gear (like many other stores do)?
that's the only annoying rei experience i can remember, other than no one ever being around to let you into the changing rooms.
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jt512
Jun 19, 2006, 2:16 AM
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In reply to: my opinion on emplyees at rei or other outdoors stores is that how annoying they are depends on how much you know about the activity you are shopping for.
I basically agree with that, except that there comes a point -- you're probably at it with skiing -- that there is nothing they can do to annoy you because you your knowledge of the relevant gear exceeds theirs by an order or two of magnitude. I stopped asking REI employees questions about climbing equimpement, or caring about their opinions a long time ago.
In reply to: my dad (happy father's day) wanted to give me a piece of protection because he knew i was starting to lead, so he gave me the BIG green camalot, the one bigger than a child's head. upon seeing it, i knew it was way too big to be usefull often if ever, so made sure not to open the sealed bag it came in, and brought it back to rei. i know people are very sensitive about "used" climbing gear, so i carefully asked the guy at customer service if they would allow me to exchange this obviously unused gigantor camalot for a couple normal sized pieces. the dude gave me the condecending look many have described in this thread and said:"ok..." and as he began entering the transaction into the computer, shook his head and muttered: "it's a shame... we'll have to destroy this perfectly good piece of equipment..." from his attitude, you would've thought i was asking him to murder puppies.
First of all, since when did Camalots start coming in sealed bags? Secondly, IMO, climbing gear should not be returnable. I would not want to buy previously sold climbing gear from a retail store. Third, if as store does take back climbing gear, they absolutely should not resell it. Now, if they don't resell then I'm not sure where your ethical responsibility lies; like you say, they took it back, so maybe it's their problem.
Finally, although you are correct to avoid cracks that are wider than a child's head, you will occasionally find yourself confronted with one, and will eventually wish you had that piece. But, you'll probably never break down and buy one for yourself. You'll end up going through life crying everytime you are confronted with an offwidth crack that you can't protect. How do I know this? Because I have never been able to bring myself to shell out the bucks for the biggest Camalot for the one or two times a year I might need it.
One of the characteristics of well-chosen gift is that it is something the person needs, but wouldn't buy for himself. Moral of the story: some day you're going to wish you'd kept the huge cam.
Mark my words.
Jay
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the_iceman
Jun 19, 2006, 9:45 AM
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I just thought I'd respond to a few of the posts, but I'm not going to sift through all of them to find out who said what. So, sorry for not using names.
The comment about frequent replies:
Yeah, the replies come from boredom... I work at a troubled youth facility, on the weekends I usually work nights so I hang out on forums a lot.
About top-roping indicating inexperience:
I actually have a fairly decent knowledge of climbing, and a few years of experience under my belt. Read the origional post, I think I specificly said I purchased a new ATC with the other gear. Setting up top rope doesn't necessisarily imply noob status either, it just means I'm starting over from scratch, and don't have the cash to just throw down $1000+ on a decent rack. I have owned a fair amount of climbing gear in my day, but alas am forced to start over.
And finally,
The reply to the comment on the Green Giant:
While those obscure, rarely used pieces of pro are nice to have; and he might think back a couple of times, and momentarily regret returning that cam. In all likelyhood, he wouldn't have brought it with him when he DID need it anyway. And in my opinion, when you are starting your collection of gear, it makes a lot more sense to buy the necessities first, then build from that base. (Hence my initial investment being in the necessities to top-rope. Next paycheck I'll probably snag 8-10 quickdraws! Woot!
Anyway, I think I'm done with this thread. I've pretty much decided that from now on, when I go to REI I'm going to wear my old boyscout uniform. Hell maybe just the merit badge sash! I'm going to put all the REI related ones at the top. Cambing, Skiing, Bicycling, Climbing, etc. Then every one will know not to bother me. "BACK OFF YOU CRAZY FUCKERS I ALREADY GOT THE MERIT BADGE!" ...I hope it works. :D
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sevrdhed
Jun 19, 2006, 1:31 PM
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What I don't get is that you've said repeatedly that you don't like the way you're treated when you go to REI. You live in Utah. It's not the only gear store in town. If you're going to the one on 33rd... here's an idea. Walk around the corner, past the little dance clothing shop, and go to IME instead.
Or maybe drive 5 minutes down the street and go to the Black Diamond store. Really, it's not that far.
Sure, the 10% dividend is nice and all, but are you really so cheap that you can't afford to spend that money on supporting local businesses?
Steve
P.S. PM me sometime, we'll go toproping.
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rgbscan
Jun 19, 2006, 1:59 PM
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In reply to: I've pretty much decided that from now on, when I go to REI I'm going to wear my old boyscout uniform. Hell maybe just the merit badge sash! I'm going to put all the REI related ones at the top. Cambing, Skiing, Bicycling, Climbing, etc. Then every one will know not to bother me. "BACK OFF YOU CRAZY f--- I ALREADY GOT THE MERIT BADGE!" ...I hope it works. :D
dude this is such a good idea. Where can I get a merit badge sash??? :D
best comment yet!
Chris
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krusher4
Jun 19, 2006, 2:08 PM
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You think REI is bad....try Neptune's in Boulder, CO WTF man???? Can some one tell me why these guys are such a** holes?
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bustaheel
Jun 19, 2006, 2:11 PM
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It's the handfull of weekend warrior customers who want everything, will buy anything, know nothing, and spend their weekends at REI.
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csproul
Jun 19, 2006, 2:23 PM
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In reply to: You think REI is bad....try Neptune's in Boulder, CO WTF man???? Can some one tell me why these guys are such a** holes? |
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krusher4
Jun 19, 2006, 4:33 PM
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They do know a lot and are very quick to spray and tell you what you need along with what they climber last weekend. I always think "Damn just because I don't on-sight 5.13 doesn't mean I can't decide on a rope" But with REI also super close plus the great customer service and constant sales I buy everything I can at REI. They don't have super technical things like copper heads and such, but there polices kick booty.
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shanz
Jun 19, 2006, 4:52 PM
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After this i just realized - my customer service skills suck ass - i dont work at a retail shop rather i work in the IT field and i usually ignore what my customers have to say since i know when theres a problem usually before the customer does -- guess i should stay where im at and not go into retail LOL
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devils_advocate
Jun 19, 2006, 5:01 PM
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My cat's breath smells like catfood.
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jt512
Jun 19, 2006, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: I actually have a fairly decent knowledge of climbing, and a few years of experience under my belt.... ...when I go to REI I'm going to wear my old boyscout uniform. Hell maybe just the merit badge sash! I'm going to put all the REI related ones at the top. Cambing, Skiing, Bicycling, Climbing, etc.
Oh, you have a Boy Scout merit badge in climbing? Why didn't you say so in the first place! Your knowledge is clearly competitive with that of the REI salesman AND the climbing gym employee!
Jay
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wjca
Jun 19, 2006, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: My cat's breath smells like catfood.
More like a mixture of peanut butter and nut sack, perv.
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euroford
Jun 19, 2006, 6:32 PM
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ya know what i hate about REI, Neptune, Moosjaw, friggen all of them? every damn time i walk into the store, i end up spending way more than i planned.
every. single. time.
i definitly don't ever have a problem with the employees though, if they are buggin me i just tell them i'm cool and just shopping around, if i need them to get me something i just ask for it then say thanks, thats all.
more often than not, if i do talk to them i enjoy the conversation.
if the guys at neptune ever start spraying on me, i'll just tell them i'm from chicago and i just climbed the first flatiron and it was sooooooo bitchin he should really go try it out. then i'll start giving him all of the gear beta.
don't forget of the offset aliens man! doubles would be even better, and a couple of screamers, cuz you gotta clip a fixed pin right off the belay on pitch 5. and be carefull on the first pitch, that bolt is -really- high off the deck, its pretty sketchy. and when you come accross the ridge, you think your at the top, then you get up there and your like OMG, i'm not at the top yet. like a false summit!
we don't have ANY of those back home in chicago!
and dude, you should totally try the colorado kind ale at the southern sun. its bitchin, like way more awsome than anything at goose island.
oh yeah, and i'll take that .75 dmm please, yeah the green one.
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climb_ian
Jun 19, 2006, 6:43 PM
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support your local climbing shop.
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krusher4
Jun 19, 2006, 7:13 PM
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In reply to: support your local climbing shop.
Yeah I would love it but everything that does not have a fixed retail price is marked up 10%...I guess Gary had to pay for his trips somehow........
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krusher4
Jun 19, 2006, 7:14 PM
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In reply to: support your local climbing shop.
Yeah I would love it but everything that does not have a fixed retail price is marked up 10%...I guess Gary has to pay for his trips somehow........
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carp
Jun 19, 2006, 8:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Beware the oxymoron! :roll: No oxymoron here. Last time I checked REI was a national chain. I can have a problem with one store, and not have a problem with the national chain can't I?
And yet the title of this thread is...
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All REI stores have a comments/suggestions box. They read it. You should use it.
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It's been said that what a person perceives is true, to them at least. Iceman says "This is a pattern!" The pattern I'm seeing is Iceman's response to everything is "Quit telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm insulted!" Calm down, man! What you are hearing is not what they are saying.
==========================
As far as the number of carabiners, I agree. Most TR areas around me have two bolts at the top, making it very easy to use 4 lockers and some webbing to have a bomber, peace-of-mind anchor. Add two for the belayer and anchor, and you've got six. The math works for me! It's also the same number I suggest when people ask how many they should use. I'm surprised people jumped on you for that.
For trad gear anchors, I usually use regular biners for the pieces, and two lockers for the rope to go through. Often, I'll use a locker on the best peice of pro, too. There's no reason not to, other than being cheap (and yet two lockers is the same price as the 3 ovals some are suggesting for the power point - who's going overboard?).
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raymondjeffrey
Jun 19, 2006, 9:14 PM
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Why doesn't REI have any guns and bows and arrows? Outdoord outfitter my ass, they should have some stuff that you can kill your dinner with and enjoy a nice bloody steak over a camp fire.
Do they even sell fishing tackle? I do know that they sell of a bunch of hemp shit for the tree hugging afficionado and bi-curious capris for the gender confused.
Boo-YAUKA-Sha!! Kill all the white people!
Jefro
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scuclimber
Jun 21, 2006, 2:04 AM
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This thread sucks.
Colin
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