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renohandjams
Sep 11, 2006, 4:35 AM
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I know there are tons of threads about snakes, and rattlesnakes, but I wanted a thread about climber's encounters with rattlesnakes that didn't rattle early enough to give enough warning.
We went climbing at the phantom spires yesterday and on the way down the trail we were moving fast to go eat lunch at the car and then come back and climb some more. We came around a corner and a HUGE rattle snake moved onto the trial from the side. It struck at Canon without even rattling and missed him by about two feet. Canon was so startled he jumped back and ended up falling downhill. I have seen a lot of rattle snakes hiking around, but this one was the largest I've ever seen, well over 5 feet and as fat as my calves (I have huge calves too).
It was funny seeing Canon's reaction, but scary at the same time. The snake almost seemed to charge at us before it struck. It was very agressive, and held its ground. I would have posted a picture, but I didn't bother taking one since it was hard to see under the bush it moved to.
For the rest of the day I would walk slowly and rattle my hexes to make sure I would at least get the warning of a rattle before a strike. It was at noon too, so the rattle snake was warmed up enough, we were just moving too fast I think.
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boredwolf
Sep 11, 2006, 12:31 PM
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I've heard stories about them learning not to rattle recently. They appear to be rather intelligent, and have learned that rattling generally gets them killed. It's supposed to be a warning to get the hell away, but maybe you guys were past that 'friendly warning' zone. I had a 2-footer slither right between my legs the other weekend when I was hiking back up to the top of Pilot Mountain. It was dusk, so I didn't see the little bugger until he was already under me. Never rattled, never even acknowledged my presence, just slithered on by...
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lrossi
Sep 11, 2006, 1:50 PM
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In reply to: For the rest of the day I would walk slowly and rattle my hexes to make sure I would at least get the warning of a rattle before a strike
I don't think rattling your hexes will help. Snakes are deaf. They can feel vibrations in the ground, so if you stomp around like bigfoot maybe that will chase them off.
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fitzontherocks
Sep 11, 2006, 2:00 PM
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"I AM FED UP WITH THESE MOTHER LOVIN' SNAKES ON THIS MOTHER LOVIN' TRAIL!!!!"
(Apologies to Samuel L. Jackson)
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 11, 2006, 2:10 PM
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My GF got buzzed by a mojave green near St george. It let her walk past and then buzzed her from behind. A really big snake!!! I allways wondered about trail running in the desert??? I like to keep my eyes peeled to the trail but then again I am from the NE where we don't have big snakes that can kill you!!!!
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j_ung
Sep 11, 2006, 2:31 PM
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I've had several (10? 12? something like that) encounters with rattlers over the years and only one of them gave me what I thought was fair warning. All the rest either waited until I was within a meter or two or never rattled at all.
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billcoe_
Sep 11, 2006, 3:13 PM
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I think I read an identical post called "Don't run in rattlesnake terrority" which came right after "Don't piss on live electric fences" which is on the "things you don't want to do often thread". :lol:
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fancyclaps
Sep 11, 2006, 3:25 PM
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I grew up with rattlesnakes all around so they are old hat to me. A piece of advice I got was to obviously, not mess with the snakes at all. Whenever a snake bites you because you startled it, there is a chance it wont inject venom. However if you have been screwing with the snake then it will inject a lot more venom than it would normally. I know this follows common sense and all, but its something to think about.
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artmusicsouth
Sep 11, 2006, 3:27 PM
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In the deep south rattlers are a problem but you often times see copperheads. 2 quick run-ins I had:
1) I had taken a friend climbing to teach him how to lead. We went to Jamestown in Alabama and did an easy route called Birthday Suit. I lead it up and placed lots of gear so he could see all the various placements. At the top I tied into a huge tree and just laid back against it watching the moring sun come through the trees. As he was coming up I was looking around and off to my left maybe 10 feet was the largest copperhead I have ever seen. He obviously came out to warm himself but man he so big I couldn't believe it. If I had not been tied in it wouldn't have been so bad as I could have easily moved off but I did encourage my partner to hurry up.
2) At Foster Falls in TN I was stick-clipped to a bolt on a route on Sanford Wall. As I was getting ready to step on to the wall I stepped in some leaves at the base. At that moment a copperhead stuck his head up at me like he was saying "Who the freak woke me up?" It was quite a sight seeing me run back as fast as I could and consequently my belayer being pulled into the rock towards the snake.
Mark
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mturner
Sep 11, 2006, 3:27 PM
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I've only encountered one rattlesnake and have ever since been much more cautious. It slithered right under me when I was bouldering...talk about motivation to send!!!
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 11, 2006, 3:47 PM
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Yikes!!! imagin if he parked himself on your pad to sun and then you gripped out and fell on him :shock: :shock:
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mturner
Sep 11, 2006, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: Yikes!!! imagin if he parked himself on your pad to sun and then you gripped out and fell on him :shock: :shock:
Yeah I try not to imagine what would have happened if I fell.
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azrockclimber
Sep 11, 2006, 4:03 PM
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In reply to: I've had several (10? 12? something like that) encounters with rattlers over the years and only one of them gave me what I thought was fair warning. All the rest either waited until I was within a meter or two or never rattled at all.
I'll second this. I have had about 5 or 6 pretty close run ins over the years.
About half the time I had fair warning, the other half they were very close by the time the rattle went off. I do have to say that the majority of those encounters were earlier on in my climbing career. I attribute this to the way I learned to hike. I stomp and occasionally clap in rocky boulder strewn areas where I cannot see everything around me. Even when I can see I will still toss a heavy foot down fairly frequently.
This, I feel, clears 'em out before I get close enough to bother them or for them to feel like they need to try and bite my ass.
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metalhead
Sep 11, 2006, 4:21 PM
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2 rattellers a a time arches N.P.
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metalhead
Sep 11, 2006, 4:22 PM
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2 rattellers at a time arches N.P.
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metalhead
Sep 11, 2006, 4:25 PM
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2 rattlers at a time arches N.P.
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phugganut
Sep 11, 2006, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: I've had several (10? 12? something like that) encounters with rattlers over the years and only one of them gave me what I thought was fair warning. All the rest either waited until I was within a meter or two or never rattled at all.
I have had many encounters with rattlesnakes living in Arizona and have never had one give warning, even the one I came within inches of stepping on one.
A few months ago while on a climbing weekend I left the campfire to pee on a bush. I saw something in the bush move and turned on my headlamp and saw that I was peeing on a rattlesnake! It crawled out of the bush, over my foot, and slithered of without ever making a sound.
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wjca
Sep 11, 2006, 6:10 PM
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In reply to: In the deep south rattlers are a problem but you often times see copperheads. 2 quick run-ins I had: 1) I had taken a friend climbing to teach him how to lead. We went to Jamestown in Alabama and did an easy route called Birthday Suit. I lead it up and placed lots of gear so he could see all the various placements. At the top I tied into a huge tree and just laid back against it watching the moring sun come through the trees. As he was coming up I was looking around and off to my left maybe 10 feet was the largest copperhead I have ever seen. He obviously came out to warm himself but man he so big I couldn't believe it. If I had not been tied in it wouldn't have been so bad as I could have easily moved off but I did encourage my partner to hurry up. 2) At Foster Falls in TN I was stick-clipped to a bolt on a route on Sanford Wall. As I was getting ready to step on to the wall I stepped in some leaves at the base. At that moment a copperhead stuck his head up at me like he was saying "Who the freak woke me up?" It was quite a sight seeing me run back as fast as I could and consequently my belayer being pulled into the rock towards the snake. Mark
That's pretty funny.
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wjca
Sep 11, 2006, 6:12 PM
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[quote="phugganut"]In reply to: I've had several (10? 12? something like that) encounters with rattlers over the years and only one of them gave me what I thought was fair warning. All the rest either waited until I was within a meter or two or never rattled at all.
I have had many encounters with rattlesnakes living in Arizona and have never had one give warning, even the one I came within inches of stepping on one.
A few months ago while on a climbing weekend I left the campfire to pee on a bush. I saw something in the bush move and turned on my headlamp and saw that I was peeing on a rattlesnake! It crawled out of the bush, over my foot, and slithered of without ever making a sound.[/quote]
Were you able to finish peeing? If you did, my hat is off to you, 'cause I imagine that would be the unlimate stage fright.
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dingus
Sep 11, 2006, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: I've heard stories about them learning not to rattle recently. They appear to be rather intelligent, and have learned that rattling generally gets them killed.
You cannot be serious??? Perhaps you can tell me how a snake would learn this lesson? Rattlesnake school? Watched its momma get stomped by some stupid snake hater named Billy Bob? What? How's a good rattlesnake to learn not to rattle?
DMT
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chizoad
Sep 11, 2006, 6:47 PM
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If people kill the rattlesnakes that rattle, then the only ones that reproduce are the ones that don't tend to rattle when threatened. Those offspring are less likely to rattle also. So no they don't really learn in snake school.
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redlegrangerone
Sep 11, 2006, 7:43 PM
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I attended a seminar on lizards and snakes of the desert a few weeks ago. The snake expert did mention that rattlesnakes are learning to not rattle. It is an evolutionary process. Not only does a rattle say to back off, it also says to a bigger predator "Here I am, come eat me". The ones that rattle do not survive, so the non rattling trait is passed on.
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phugganut
Sep 11, 2006, 8:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I've had several (10? 12? something like that) encounters with rattlers over the years and only one of them gave me what I thought was fair warning. All the rest either waited until I was within a meter or two or never rattled at all. I have had many encounters with rattlesnakes living in Arizona and have never had one give warning, even the one I came within inches of stepping on one. A few months ago while on a climbing weekend I left the campfire to pee on a bush. I saw something in the bush move and turned on my headlamp and saw that I was peeing on a rattlesnake! It crawled out of the bush, over my foot, and slithered of without ever making a sound.[/Were you able to finish peeing? If you did, my hat is off to you, 'cause I imagine that would be the unlimate stage fright.
Yeah I finished, but had several beers in me wanting to get out. It didn't really freak me out until I thought about it afterward. I mean, although you don't want to get bitten by a rattler anywhere on your body, there are some places that would be much worse than others!
Of course, after the realization of what it was set in, I did what any good transplanted redneck would do and yelled out: "Hey y'all, check this out!"
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dingus
Sep 11, 2006, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: I attended a seminar on lizards and snakes of the desert a few weeks ago. The snake expert did mention that rattlesnakes are learning to not rattle. It is an evolutionary process. Not only does a rattle say to back off, it also says to a bigger predator "Here I am, come eat me". The ones that rattle do not survive, so the non rattling trait is passed on.
I don't buy it, not for a minute.
DMT
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j_ung
Sep 11, 2006, 9:22 PM
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You're right, dingus. Flying Spaghetti Monster made them that way. :wink: :P
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dynoho
Sep 11, 2006, 10:28 PM
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It's not a problem to run through rattlesnake country, as long as you do so very, VERY quickly.
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redlegrangerone
Sep 11, 2006, 11:00 PM
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Well Dingus, maybe the eastern rattlesnakes are not as EVOLVED as our western rattlesnakes. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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scotchie
Sep 11, 2006, 11:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I attended a seminar on lizards and snakes of the desert a few weeks ago. The snake expert did mention that rattlesnakes are learning to not rattle. It is an evolutionary process. Not only does a rattle say to back off, it also says to a bigger predator "Here I am, come eat me". The ones that rattle do not survive, so the non rattling trait is passed on. I don't buy it, not for a minute. DMT
In Nathaniel Philbrick's "In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex", the author points out that there is a skeleton of a whale in a Nantucket, MA museum which is significantly larger than any whale of the same species sighted in recent memory. He theorizes that the whale hunting trade caused whales to be selected for smaller size, so that they would be of less use to humans. I have read other books that talk about a similar unintentional artificial selection process for other species.
It seems feasible that populations of rattlesnakes living nearby humans could be artificially selected for certain behaviors.
If you want proof, then I don't think it's going to happen.
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jeff_m
Sep 11, 2006, 11:27 PM
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A doctor who recently retired out here said he'd seen about 40 rattlesnake bites over the years, but only one of them was "legitimate" (i.e. a hiker accidently stepped on its tail and it bit her on the ankle). Just about all the rest were teenage to early 20s males, inebriated in one way or another, that got bit on the hand or arm. ("Hey watch me catch this--hiccup!--rattler!")
Rattlesnakes spend a lot of time lounging in the sun. The only times I've been struck at was when I was trail running, and while scary, it's more a warning than an "attack."(A lot of times they're not in position to rattle effectively, which means you won't hear anything until they've moved away and curled up---I 'd never heard the"rattling less/evolutionary theory" before....) They would much rather get out of the way and go hide. Right now in the west is another breeding/hatching cycle and the last two year's rains have increased the food supply, which is why we're seeing more than usual. (I've come across three in the last two weeks.)
This was near the The Brickyard last week:
http://www.citycg.com/DSCN6801.jpg
Just leave them alone. (AND STOP PEEING ON THEM!) :twisted:
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dingus
Sep 11, 2006, 11:57 PM
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In reply to: If you want proof, then I don't think it's going to happen.
I don't want anything. I just don't believe bullshit stories about snakes. People say the worst things about snakes. That whale tale of yours sounds fishy too.
DMT
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ratmnerd
Sep 12, 2006, 12:10 AM
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Dingus - it's a form of natural selection. It's more behavioral than genetic, but still a form thereof. Sure sounds plausible to me.
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dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 12:26 AM
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For this ridiculous theory to have any credibility a 'snake expert' (haha) would have to demonstrate that rattlesnake populations in close proximity to humans rattle less, when provoked, than do their wilderness counterparts, given the same stimuli.
If you find a silent rattler say deep in the western Last Chance Range or some other extremely remote area, and you attribute that silence to human-induced natural selection, well, I have an English bridge in Arizona I need to sell you.
DMT
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phugganut
Sep 12, 2006, 1:04 AM
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In reply to: ... well, I have an English bridge in Arizona I need to sell you. DMT
Yeah, like there is an English bridge in Arizona. C'mon man we're not that gullible!
Anyway, back to rattlesnakes and rednecks...
Last year my friend Manny put up a first ascent of a dihedral at Isolation Canyon. LAter that day I did the second ascent and towards the top saw a section of old climbing rope jammed deep in the crack. For no particular reason I grabbed a stick and started poking it in the crack to work the rope out. As I was sticking it in I thought: "If he just did the FA, how could there be an old rope jammed in the crack?" About that time the stick touched the "rope" which started crawling around in the crack a few inches above my hand jam. I got a good look at a small rattler that was not very happy with my poking it with a stick. If I was a smart man I would have immediately moved on. However, I instead hung out, on lead and a good 15' above my last piece, and watched it, yelling down to my belayer with the blow by blow each time it moved a little more. The rattler never tried to strike though; it just kept trying to move deeper in the crack.
-Mike
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scotchie
Sep 12, 2006, 1:27 AM
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I've seen snakes slither in front of me a couple of times, and some that have rattled at me.
On one of those days I saw a couple people with IPod's on, who jogged or mountain biked right past me. When I talked to them later, they had no idea that there were snakes on the trail. They went right by the snakes without even noticing.
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talnlnky
Sep 12, 2006, 6:13 AM
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dingus...
your experiment would be flawed. Snakes have other predators than just humans. Thus, proximity to humans wouldn't exactly prove or disprove anything.
furthermore, natural selection is a REAL thing, its not something thats debatable like evolution. There's a reason why people of equatorial region ancestry (ie. mid-northern african) have a very high rate of sickle-cell. Its because those who carry the sickle-cell gene/trait are immune to malaria. Thus they were less likely to die from disease.
natural selection is one of the main concepts in 100 level biology in college as well as first year biology in high school.
now... in my 23yrs, i've yet to ever see a rattle snake outdoors... that was alive. Have seen plenty of snakes, including some beefy bull snakes (which look like rattle snakes minus the rattle) but never a rattler.
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azrockclimber
Sep 12, 2006, 11:38 AM
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awesome rattler picture!! ( grayghost pg 1)
look at that guy!! :shock:
totally bad-ass
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azrockclimber
Sep 12, 2006, 11:41 AM
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awesome picture!!
look at this guy!!! :shock:
totally bad-ass
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svilnit
Sep 12, 2006, 12:49 PM
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In reply to: For this ridiculous theory to have any credibility a 'snake expert' (haha) would have to demonstrate that rattlesnake populations in close proximity to humans rattle less, when provoked, than do their wilderness counterparts, given the same stimuli. If you find a silent rattler say deep in the western Last Chance Range or some other extremely remote area, and you attribute that silence to human-induced natural selection, well, I have an English bridge in Arizona I need to sell you. DMT
Dingus, I know you aren't a fan of the rating system. But that, my friend, was a trophy post :)
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dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 1:07 PM
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In reply to: dingus... your experiment would be flawed. Snakes have other predators than just humans. Thus, proximity to humans wouldn't exactly prove or disprove anything.
OK, let's think this through for a minute. Why do rattlesnakes have rattles do you suppose? I've heard it suggested it is a defensive mechanism to warn off danger. What danger? Predators and those who might step on them is my guess.
For your point to have any merit you're not only going to have to demonstrate natural selection of silent rattlers you're now going to have to show that predation of rattlesnakes oby other wild animals has undergone some fundamental change in the very recent past to account for this rather remarkable idea.
So talnkny, how have rattlesnake predators changed their ways, in the last 200 years no less, to encourage this natural selection of silent rattlers?
DMT
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dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 1:12 PM
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In reply to: furthermore, natural selection is a REAL thing, its not something thats debatable like evolution.
That is very comforting. My world is once again righted. Now please explain is detail how silent rattlers got selected again? You know, those snakes you've never even seen in the wild (an experience I assure you, echoed by the vast majority of climbers, snake-aphobes included)?
In reply to: natural selection is one of the main concepts in 100 level biology in college as well as first year biology in high school.
You DON'T SAY!!!111
In reply to: now... in my 23yrs, i've yet to ever see a rattle snake outdoors...
Its a rattlensake, one word. And I've seen them. Saw three in one day this spring. Got buzzed by one of them. It does produce the willies I must admit.
DMT
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cchildre
Sep 12, 2006, 2:26 PM
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Funny thing about rattlesnakes! In many cases, you will walk down the trail past several hidden along side and never even know you did. If you have seen 10 then you have probably past well over a hundred. They only rattle when they feel threatened, and most times they just see you as a passer by and don't want to attract the attention.
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saxfiend
Sep 12, 2006, 3:14 PM
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In reply to: In the deep south rattlers are a problem but you often times see copperheads. 2 quick run-ins I had: 1) I had taken a friend climbing to teach him how to lead. We went to Jamestown in Alabama and did an easy route called Birthday Suit. I lead it up and placed lots of gear so he could see all the various placements. At the top I tied into a huge tree and just laid back against it watching the moring sun come through the trees. As he was coming up I was looking around and off to my left maybe 10 feet was the largest copperhead I have ever seen. He obviously came out to warm himself but man he so big I couldn't believe it. If I had not been tied in it wouldn't have been so bad as I could have easily moved off but I did encourage my partner to hurry up. 2) At Foster Falls in TN I was stick-clipped to a bolt on a route on Sanford Wall. As I was getting ready to step on to the wall I stepped in some leaves at the base. At that moment a copperhead stuck his head up at me like he was saying "Who the freak woke me up?" It was quite a sight seeing me run back as fast as I could and consequently my belayer being pulled into the rock towards the snake. Mark
One thing I did see at Jamestown that you don't see every day -- a coyote!
JL
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saxfiend
Sep 12, 2006, 3:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I've heard stories about them learning not to rattle recently. They appear to be rather intelligent, and have learned that rattling generally gets them killed. You cannot be serious??? Perhaps you can tell me how a snake would learn this lesson? Rattlesnake school? Watched its momma get stomped by some stupid snake hater named Billy Bob? What? How's a good rattlesnake to learn not to rattle? DMT
I'm with you Dingus, rattlesnakes learning not to rattle is about as likely as rattlesnakes learning not to bite passing climbers! :P
JL
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pastprime
Sep 12, 2006, 3:41 PM
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A friend of mine was climbing in Little Cottonwood Canyon several years ago, and as he pulled up to mantle onto a narrow ledge, found himself face to face (about a foot away, he said) with a rattler that seemed as surprised to see him as he was to see it. He immediately pushed off and let go, and after recovering, traversed over and took another route up.
I've seen a lot of rattlers over the years, and have not noticed any difference in rattlyness in the areas I frequent. Some do and some don't.
I did see a PBS special recently that said in areas of the south where for many years they have been holding big rattlesnake drives and festivals, with sometimes a few hundred people covering large areas of the region catching every snake they encounter, that there has been a definite reduction in the percentage of snakes that rattle as someone passes by, and they attribute this to the snakes with tendency to remain silent being more likely to remain in the gene pool than the ones who announce their presence to their eager would be captors.
I don't think it has anything to do with predatory animals, which are probably less likely to try to eat a snake that is rattling aggressively than one that is trying to flee; and I never imagined anyone was saying the reduced tendency to rattle found in those populations found in the areas affected by massive snake gathering drives, would in any way affect, say, the frequency of rattling by snakes in the Mojave desert.
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pastprime
Sep 12, 2006, 5:34 PM
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As an aside on this topic, I was talking with Dick Dorworth (interesting guy, anything he writes or says is worth listening to) a few years ago about how we are so much limited by what we believe is possible, and the possibility that practice to develop a skill is, as much as anything else, a process of gradually convincing our minds that something is possible that we could have done immediately if we had only believed we could.
He told of a time when he was backpacking in the Grand Canyon with a 60 pound pack on his back, stepped off a small ledge next to a startled rattlesnake, and jumped sideways and upwards about 9 feet. His tracks in the soft sand were clear indicators of where he had taken off and where he had landed, and when he tried a few minutes later to duplicate the jump, he couldn't do it even without the pack.
One could attribute this to adrenaline, but my understanding is that it takes a few seconds for adrenaline to be created and released; and in any case, it is still ones own body doing something one did not previously think possible, and that couldn't be duplicated when the conscious mind was engaged.
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colkurtz
Sep 12, 2006, 5:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: dingus... your experiment would be flawed. Snakes have other predators than just humans. Thus, proximity to humans wouldn't exactly prove or disprove anything. OK, let's think this through for a minute. Why do rattlesnakes have rattles do you suppose? I've heard it suggested it is a defensive mechanism to warn off danger. What danger? Predators and those who might step on them is my guess. For your point to have any merit you're not only going to have to demonstrate natural selection of silent rattlers you're now going to have to show that predation of rattlesnakes oby other wild animals has undergone some fundamental change in the very recent past to account for this rather remarkable idea. So talnkny, how have rattlesnake predators changed their ways, in the last 200 years no less, to encourage this natural selection of silent rattlers? DMT
well santa catalina island ratllesnakes have no rattle. i believe it was the jeff corwin show (or one like it) which publicized this evolution of losing the rattle.
anyhow it is possible that humans could have forced the evolution in some areas/subspecies
unless you have a good explanation of how the rattle evolved then i wouldn't shoot down all the theories of how it may have or could evolve away
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dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 7:00 PM
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[quote="colkurtz"]anyhow it is possible that humans could have forced the evolution in some areas/subspeciesIn reply to: And its possible that the Santa Catalina rattlers FLEW there too. In reply to: unless you have a good explanation of how the rattle evolved then i wouldn't shoot down all the theories of how it may have or could evolve away I don't care if you shoot it down or not. Snakes are unaffected by opinions, however ridiculous they may appear. DMT
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j_ung
Sep 12, 2006, 8:24 PM
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After a little poking around online, I'm finding that this notion that an active rattle may actually be a liability for a rattlesnake seems to be a pretty old one, dating back to the American Naturalist, first published in 1867.
In reply to: ...the tail appendage of the rattlesnake was not to be explained on the doctrine of natural selection, inasmuch as it could contribute in no way to the advantage of the animal. It seemed to me quite clear that it was rather calulated to hinder than to help the creature in the race of life by warning its prey of its presence...
That's not to say that the premise -- that a rattle would hinder the snake by warning potential prey -- is the same as pinpointing its location to predators (humans). But it's at least similar enough, IMO, to warrant more consideration than, "Snakes are unaffected by opinions, however ridiculous they may appear."
Then again, I can think of other reasons for a rattler not rattling, namely that it might have been conditioned to stay silent around larger animals all along. Perhaps the rattle is only the second in a line up of defenses, the first being a combination of silence and stillness. More than one source also pointed out that rattlesnake rattles don't work as well when wet, which might help to explain the relative silence of some southeastern snakes. :lol:
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redlegrangerone
Sep 12, 2006, 8:30 PM
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Everyone is stuck on the human as predator adaption. We are far from the only thing that will prey on a snake. The main predator in the desert comes from the sky.
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rockscars
Sep 12, 2006, 9:09 PM
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I thought that I might share a little story about my only Arkansas rattler experience. I was a trail guide on the Buffalo River for a youth group a few summers ago.
To set a little background: these kids had never been camping before, nobody had a map, no one had the faintest idea what "leave no trace" meant :roll: . Totally unprepared.
Well, after spending the morning playing sweeper for the trash thrown on the ground and kids left behind, we made it to the campsite. Boys on one side of the river, girls on the other side.
The boys were on a bluff line/ridge area setting up their camp when I heard frantic screams. I broke into a run thinking one of the kids was seriously injured. Luckily I got there before anyone was injured. The kids nearly stepped on a 4 foot long rattler. I walked up as one of the consulars was poking at the snake with a 10 inch twig (no joking!) :shock:
I told him to back up slowly, then informed him how far a rattler can strike while in a coil. One of the kids offered to kill the snake and I counter offered to go to his home and kill him just for being there :twisted: . When the kid laughed at me I told him that I would just tell the rangers and have him arrested, locked up in Newton County jail 8^) , and fined.
I scooted the snake up off the hill with a LONG stick. I think that everyone was lucky that the snake had just eaten, or else we would have been carrying someone out with a massive venom injection (being taunted repeatedly and all)!
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dingus
Sep 12, 2006, 9:42 PM
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But j, rattlensakes ARE unaffected by our opinions. That's a simple fact.
Here is what I think: I think humans have been walking by rattlensakes since time began, and rarely getting buzzed for their efforts. That's what I think.
I think most people get their notion of proper rattlesnake behavior (what ever that may be) from TV westerns and such. So when the see a rattler that didn't buzz, well, that's gotta represent a change! Afterall the ones on TV ALWAYS buzz.
Now if some biologist who actually studies rattlensakes can step forward and cite a study showing rattlesnakes rattle less than they used to, I would give that report very serious weight.
But to everyone else?
BULLSHIT!
DMT
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cchildre
Sep 13, 2006, 3:44 PM
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Doing a study on the movements and healt of rattlesnakes, a great number were fitted with a locater beacon, which I do not recall how it was affixed. Anyhow, the locator was not super accurate and often searching for the snakes took some time. The expert conducting the study found that while searching, more times than not he would finally get the strong signal that indicated the snake was near, it was usually only a few feet away hiding under some rocks or a log. Very rarely did he locate them in the open, and getting rattled was a pretty rare thing.
As for my experience. Down in Last Chance, we climbed for about an hour, and I sat down on a boulder in the river bed. Some others were perched up a little higher. So I asked them "Do you worry about sitting that close to that rattlesnake?" "WHAT?" was their reply. I pointed out a small rattler coiled up on a rock about three feet from their position. They moved away, and I got a stick and encouraged the snake to move down into rocks. Which he did once he realized that he had been discovered. Did not rattle at any time.
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j_ung
Sep 13, 2006, 4:16 PM
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In reply to: But j, rattlensakes ARE unaffected by our opinions. That's a simple fact.
Our opinions, however, are affected by rattlesnakes. :wink:
In reply to: Here is what I think: I think humans have been walking by rattlensakes since time began, and rarely getting buzzed for their efforts. That's what I think.
That's what I said! :lol:
In reply to: Then again, I can think of other reasons for a rattler not rattling, namely that it might have been conditioned to stay silent around larger animals all along. Perhaps the rattle is only the second in a line up of defenses, the first being a combination of silence and stillness. |
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scottb63
Sep 13, 2006, 4:36 PM
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I figured out how rattlesnakes are learning not to rattle. If you go on rattling.com and check out the forums, you can see all of the noob snakes starting threads like "when should I rattle?"and "how to scare climbers".
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quietpartner
Sep 13, 2006, 5:07 PM
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Yeah, they're pretty bright.
I dragged my pet rattler's cage over here to the laptop and scrolled the screen slowly past. He stared at it with his beady little eyes as hard as a college kid before a final, never blinked once, finally crawled back to a dark corner in the cage and I haven't heard him rattle since.
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adrenaline_smack
Sep 13, 2006, 5:38 PM
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obviously since we have a lack of "snakologists" here, we can safely say with 100% certaintly and without needing any proof that the lack of rattling is intelligent design. its the only acceptable answer...unless your a heathen?
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j_ung
Sep 13, 2006, 6:21 PM
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Praise the lord and pass the snakes! :lol:
(Extra credit to anyone who can name the band.)
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saxfiend
Sep 13, 2006, 7:22 PM
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In reply to: Praise the lord and pass the snakes! :lol: (Extra credit to anyone who can name the band.)
JL
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fenix83
Moderator
Sep 13, 2006, 10:55 PM
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Yup, Hot Tuna it is... what's the prize Jay?
-F
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prezwoodz
Sep 14, 2006, 1:10 AM
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Well I have heard some fancy tales of snakes in this thread but how about getting a little bit closer? Lets ask our own Senior Photo Mod coldclimb what he thinks about rattlers...and a baby rattler at that.
Here is a shot I took of him at Tahquitz recently on our climbing trip.
http://www.alaskamountainforum.com/roadtrip/snakebite.jpg
Yup...thats damn close.
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glightning
Sep 14, 2006, 2:09 AM
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Earlier this year a buddy and myself were looking for new places to boulder. We were walking in some foothills and my friend, all of a sudden, grabbed me and pulled me back real fast knocking me down. After getting up really pissed I asked him what that was for and he pointed to a baby rattler I would've stepped on otherwise. "Wow.....Thanks?"
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saxfiend
Sep 14, 2006, 2:27 AM
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In reply to: Yup, Hot Tuna it is... what's the prize Jay? -F
JL
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heavydude
Sep 14, 2006, 2:47 AM
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At least you get a warning. Try living in Oz where none of them rattle.
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jeff_m
Sep 14, 2006, 3:26 AM
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Oh hell, this thread is dead now that the Aussies are weighing in---'cuz they're going to beat us with the "more deadly" everything: snakes, spiders, scorpions, yeah and even women. (Oh, well, fun while it lasted....) :(
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ratmnerd
Sep 14, 2006, 3:34 AM
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In reply to: Oh hell, this thread is dead now that the Aussies are weighing in---'cuz they're going to beat us with the "more deadly" everything: snakes, spiders, scorpions, yeah and even women. (Oh, well, fun while it lasted....) :(
don't forget the sheep either - when they're not being raped witless, they can savagely maul u.
love
a kiwi
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