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lofstromc


Mar 18, 2008, 5:35 PM
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roninthorne wrote:
conversely, if you improved those cabins just a bit, they would be worth the price of a Premium/Charter/Lifetime membership (another idea I wouldn't immediately discard... Look to the AAC for some guidance on this, too)

Finally-

When and if ya start selling plots, let me know... I've already got a buyer for one of them.

Lifetime membership, that is exactly what I was alluding too! I would love to have a little cabin in that neck-o-the-woods.
Put me down for one as well...seriously.


jt512


Mar 18, 2008, 5:56 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
pornstarr wrote:
what's the asking price these days for Nelson Rocks purchase?

A very reasonable $750,000.00

Holy shit, Toto! We're definitely not in California anymore.

Jay


notapplicable


Mar 18, 2008, 8:31 PM
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roninthorne wrote:
Are those fins owned by Stu?

No he doesnt own them. Possible future aquisition...one thing at a time and all that.Wink

roninthorne wrote:
I was just talking to Dr. Goodwhack about this thing... do you know who the engineer that designed the Via was, or could you get that info from Stu? The Via has some issues- which I would be happy to address now, beginning the day of the sale, as a cartaker/camp host/maintenance man...

I'm sure I can get all that info. from Stu. I'm waiting for a reply to an Email now so I'll explore that soon.

Thanks for the offer Mike, if more climbers had your spirit (myself included) we would be in a much better place as a community. Not that its all inclusive anymore but I think there is still a sense of community.

roninthorne wrote:
there are folks right here in WV that could live there and work for you for rent and climbing privileges, n/a... nothing against your bud in Richmond, but he's in Richmond, where there are jobs... we're in WV where they are a little harder to get... but I digress (imagine that).

Like I said if this plays out I will be moving Stoneworks (my current company) to the valley, dont know if I will beable to do with out my right hand man anyway. Time will tell.

roninthorne wrote:
even if someone competent did design and install it, you'd want to get an engineer out there to re-inspect it before you agreed to any price... the thing is a big enough liability as it is.

Couldnt agree more. All of this is what can be so frustrating about a project like this. *A little side story to make my point* - 8 months ago I signed a contract to purchase 35 acres of farm land from a retired guy with cancer (dont let this paint the wrong picture of me. I made a high offer just so that he could use the money to extend his fight. I was very disappointed he never got the money when he needed it most). Since that time I have built and sold a house, he has died and three different title companies have worked on the title. Turns out 18 family members have some level of ownership or power of attorney and they keep dragging things out.

I'm excited about this opportunity but these processes are always so protracted it makes you twitch.

roninthorne wrote:
Go for the snob appeal and charge 'em $250.00 per night and you'll be beating the golden-parachuting CEOs and investment bankers who just repo'd all those homes and made a tidy windfall away with a #13 Hexcentric, man!

Let them pay for us to play! Now that sir is a plan.

In all seriousness, if the place is to be run as a business (for profit or non-profit) there is no reason not to do it right. At the very least hook power up and provide the basic amenities. I gotta be honest (you will find I speak bluntly but honestly, something we have in common I think), at heart I am a capitalist Shocked and that goes doubly so for partner/father. A balancing act is going to have to be done if this moves forward with a large level of capital coming from my end. A part of the reason a nonprofit is appealing is all the tax incentives. Again, on my current playing field this thing is a tall fence. I'm hoping we can figure out a way to play both sides, without we dont even have a game.

roninthorne wrote:
conversely, if you improved those cabins just a bit, they would be worth the price of a Premium/Charter/Lifetime membership (another idea I wouldn't immediately discard... Look to the AAC for some guidance on this, too)

This idea I like better actually. A few members of my extended family own a rustic cabin in the mountains near the VA/WVA line. Its a place that they and their extended family or friends can go for the weekend and relax. No reason we couldnt create that opportunity for a few like minded people and preserve the climbing at the same time.

Many, many, many conversations to be had and even more numbers to be looked at. $4,500.00 a month mortgage payment aint no joke.Unimpressed


notapplicable


Mar 18, 2008, 8:33 PM
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Re: [lofstromc] Nelson Rocks Preserve [In reply to]
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lofstromc wrote:
roninthorne wrote:
conversely, if you improved those cabins just a bit, they would be worth the price of a Premium/Charter/Lifetime membership (another idea I wouldn't immediately discard... Look to the AAC for some guidance on this, too)

Finally-

When and if ya start selling plots, let me know... I've already got a buyer for one of them.

Lifetime membership, that is exactly what I was alluding too! I would love to have a little cabin in that neck-o-the-woods.
Put me down for one as well...seriously.

With the right amenities this could be a sweet deal for everyone. Climbing, cabins, fishing and rocking chairs on the front porch. These things make me Smile


lodi5onu


Mar 19, 2008, 11:31 AM
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roninthorne wrote:
Bold lines and HARD moves made Nelson what it once was, back when there were no cabins, and the place was covered in greenbriar and poison ivy and rarely visited by anyolne outside the circle of maniacs who put up lines there. Lucky enough to have been friends with one or two of those folks and to have climbed there in the day.

Nelson was a place of scattered hard routes and a few moderate lines. Not much "beginner" ground, not the horn o' plenty that Seneca is, nor the overwhelming parallel reality of champe, or Judy Gap. In Nelson, you were a long way from anything, on sometimes challenging terrain, moving in the footsteps and sometimes the shadows of giants. You went there humble, and you went there strong, you climbed smart and you backed off when you had to, and went for it when you could, or had no other choice.

You either got your head handed to you, a balance statement on your reality checking account, or the incredible feeling of standing atop a lost world, hiding in plain sight in the middle of one of the most travelled valleys in Eastern America.

Nelson is a place like no other. I would like to think that any climber with any inkling of the importance of this place in the history of West Virginia, Eastern, and North American rock climbing would chip in to keep it from becoming just another Future Generations string of private mansions dominating a public landscape.

So tell me, organizers... anyone really think we could put together a plan to buy one of the legendary hardplaces of the Southeast?

amen, to that brother
Nelson's is bigger than you, me or rc.com
Nelson's is wild
Nelson's is wonderful
Nelson's is purely WV


climbingmitch


Mar 19, 2008, 8:21 PM
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Me and my D.C. friends climb frequently at Seneca Rocks, Franklin and the Gunks. We would all GLADLY pay to climb at Nelson Rocks, either a daily fee or an annual fee. This would provide welcome variety to Seneca/Franklin.


rockandlice


Dec 31, 2008, 8:09 AM
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EDIT** I now see this thread is ancient. Any updates?




I too would be more than willing to pony up $5 a day to play. I'll even be down for a trail day from time to time and I always pack out ALL trash (not just mine) that I find ANYWHERE in the great outdoors (outside of abandoned cars I seem to not be strong enough to move).

Roninthorne, I've been out of the climbing game for many years (12 or so roughly). I have no idea WHAT I was thinking, but I'm coming back around now as my wife is showing interest and some surprising natural talent. I climbed Franklin quite a bit in the early days driving up with a bunch of friends from Roanoke at the time. Seems it's changed quite a bit from what I've read and seen on here. I appreciate your efforts to keep it hanging on up to this point and it saddens me to see the lack of help has been so prevalent for an area that seems to receive a lot of traffic.

Here is the way I see it. WVa. does not support a working economy that would allow a large number of outdoor enthusiast to live nearby. In turn, the state is flooded by us outsiders wanting a piece of the wild action. Add to that the work and family schedules of most and people feel they barely have time just to drive to and from the crags and get a decent amount of climbing time in. What people fail to realize is that if they do not ever take the time to pitch in, eventually they won't have to worry about it at all as nothing will be accessible anyhow. Even if everyone sacrificed ONE DAY A YEAR, the impact would be HUGE.

In regards to Franklin specifically, I look forward to visiting soon. I was once a slightly less than half respectable climber leading .11's strong and hang dogging the ever living crap out of .12's. I really liked more moderate trad routes most, but it will take a bit to get my head back for it. After a few trips to the local walls, I realize I can now only make it up .7's & .8's with a hair of grace and a .9 feels hard a all get out. I figure our trips to Franklin in '09 will consist of a 1/2 day climbing before getting a bit pumped and we'll be able to spend a few hours each time helping to clean up and do some trail work where needed. I look forward to talking to you about the current 'honey-do' list there.

As for dogs, well, we have one. You definitely won't see him at the crags this year though. He's a 15 month old flat coated retriever pup. He's got an excellent temperament, but he is by no means a good crag dog. Hopefully in a couple of years that will change. We rescued him 6 months ago and have been working closely with him over the last 6 months to train him well. I've always been of the mind set that a proper crag dog must have the following attributes:

a. Well mannered with strangers. Doesn't jump up on people, approaches people gently and gives people their space. Oh, and no stealing or rummaging!

b. Respects the natural surroundings. No digging, chasing the local wildlife, excessive barking (anything beyond an occasional yelp), stays out of everyones way and keeps a calm demeanor along the cliffs (not distracting in any manner).

Once Samson proves himself in those ways, he'll come along. For now he gets to go hiking, and I'll usually shoot for rarely traveled back country where he can trot the trail without the confines of a leash. He's actually a killer trail dog, but needs constant movement to keep him focused. Stays close to me and urges me to keep up a solid pace. Wink


(This post was edited by rockandlice on Dec 31, 2008, 8:20 AM)


notapplicable


Jan 4, 2009, 10:55 AM
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Well the latest as it concerns my purchase plan is everythings on hold.Unimpressed Quick and profitable asset liquidation with in the realestate market is not really an option any more and like a bunch of other companies we are struggling.

It has been 9 months since I last spoke with Stu so I have no idea how the sale is going. From the website it looks like the Via Ferrata is up and running but climbing is still closed unfortunately.

When I re-opened this discussion a few months ago several people expressed interest in pursuing some sort of nonprofit purchase of the land and I think that is the most likely path for access to be restored. The best way to go about doing so is the next item up for discussion I suppose. Do we find 20 like minded people with a few grand to spare each year and just buy the place on a 15 year mortgage? Does the via farrata stay open to pay the mortgage and everyone just has to be a guarantor with a down pmnt? Do we set it up as a nonprofit and try to raise the funds to pay the mortgage? Does the via stay open to supplement donations? Who wants to be involved? How and where do we meet to discuss this?

Lots of questions...what I will do is send a pm to everyone who expressed interest with a link to this thread so we can try and get a ball rolling.


notapplicable


Jan 5, 2009, 10:49 AM
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Anyone who is interested pursuing this just add this thread to your "watched threads" list as I and some other folks will be doing some research on the best ways to organize both private and public ownership of the land and posting updates and links to this thread. If anyone has prior experience with this type of thing or knows someone who does, your input would be appreciated as I have very little.

Also if you know of other organizations, websites or individuals who don't use RC.com but would be interested in securing access to Nelson please let me know.

Thanks


charley


Jan 5, 2009, 4:11 PM
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The c.c.c. and s.e.c. have purchased laurel knob and other places. Someone should talk to some of them. Some are on here and some aren't anymore.


rockandlice


Jan 5, 2009, 4:29 PM
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While I do not have personal funding to throw in the pot, I may have some value to bring to the table. I'm good friends with all of the folks over at a large outdoor monthly mag for the region. Those folks would likely have good contacts/ideas and certainly could provide some stories/coverage for helping to make this happen.


notapplicable


Jan 6, 2009, 6:05 PM
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charley wrote:
The c.c.c. and s.e.c. have purchased laurel knob and other places. Someone should talk to some of them. Some are on here and some aren't anymore.

I have no idea how wide they are willing to cast their net but I think WV may be a bit outside of their "jurisdiction". They would be a great place to start as far as ideas and contacts though.

Maybe the first thing we (by "we" I mean those who can and want to invest time in organizing this thing) should do is figure out who "we' are and assign some homework to each person. Somebody to contact existing organizations that can help, someone to research the best way to structure a private purchase by a group of individuals, someone to look at mortgage costs and terms, etc... I guess the first task after that is to decide on a purchase plan, given the uniqueness of the venue the options are many.

I am not a very social guy so I know I'm the wrong person to spearhead this thing in the long run but I will be happy to put in plenty of man hours to get the ball rolling. If anybody wants to take on some responsibility you can PM me and we will start working on the details together. Updates will be posted here.

So, who wants to help?


notapplicable


Jan 6, 2009, 6:17 PM
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rockandlice wrote:
While I do not have personal funding to throw in the pot, I may have some value to bring to the table. I'm good friends with all of the folks over at a large outdoor monthly mag for the region. Those folks would likely have good contacts/ideas and certainly could provide some stories/coverage for helping to make this happen.

Excellent, that could be a big help if things go the fundraising route.

I have no idea if we can make this thing work but a great climbing resource is just sitting there waiting to be opened up. Definitely warrants a serious effort I think.


Partner j_ung


Jan 8, 2009, 9:50 AM
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Another thing to think about is that the Access Fund is hosting an acquisition summit, I think March 6-8 at Torrent Falls at the Red. Anybody seriously considering getting the ball rolling on an acquisition ought to be there.


nateclimbs


Jan 8, 2009, 10:54 AM
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I'm potentially interested in helping with Nelson access. I've got some time to offer. Please keep me in the loop on any plans.

I climb regularly at Seneca and would love to check out Nelson some day.

I'm in Baltimore. I would potentially be interested in a trip to the Red for the acquisition summit if that would be a helpful first step. (I couldn't find any info online about that meeting.)

Nate


rockandlice


Jan 10, 2009, 8:39 AM
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I just found out some information last night that may also be an avenue to explore. A close friend of mine apparently has an acquaintance who purchases sizable amounts of land for the purpose of conservation and natural outdoor recreation. He is located in Virginia, and I am not sure if he has interest outside the state, but we are certainly going to propose the idea to him to see what he has to say.


brewbob


Jan 11, 2009, 3:00 PM
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I climbed the Via @ Nelson last August. I thought it was a great experience especially for introducing novice climbers to exposed climbing.
From what I could see there were some great trad opportunities as well a some walls that could support sport lines. With the right land manager and a supportive community Nelson could thrive and take some pressure off of Seneca.
I wish I had the resources to make the purchase and give it a go.


roninthorne


Jan 13, 2009, 10:22 AM
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brewbob wrote:
With the right land manager and a supportive community...

Sorry... can't stop laughing long enough to post anything else...

Okay... let's see... "supportive community"... ROFLMMFAO.... oh, yeah... like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and all those other fictional characters, this is one childhood illusion you need to leave behind, cuz when it comes to the out-of-state folks who visit WV, unless it's some major social scene like the New Rendezvous or the Seneca Chilifest (neither of which has given one thin DIME to support Franklin), THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING as a "supportive community".

Lots of chin music ("Oh, yeah, Mike, the trails look great... you know you can just call me/the AF/the shop anytime you guys need some help!"), and God bless the volunteers who have showed and the folks who have donated, but nothing regular.

The much-touted AF's new MACC spokesperson Chris Irwin wrote a very nice, very empty bit of fluff about "giving back"for the last Traildaze. He and the regional rep (and fellow MACC founder) Ocean Eiler committed to attending, along with several dozen of their DC homeys, but apparently were too concerned with cleaning up the SNP (where fewer than 10% of them ever have or will climb 1/10th as much as they visit Franklin) to actually show or let the guy plannning and purchasing know they weren't coming. A grand total of three volunteers showed up.. thanks to Milas, John, and Lilly for all you did and for being there, when so many who could better afford it, who contribute much more impact, couldn't be bothered.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put my money on the AF to do anything more than defend your (non-existant) right to bring your dog to the crag and substitute a check for actual responsibility or involvement.

If anything is gonna get done, it's gonna happen becuse people just do it, not because they talk about it with some PR-happy national organization or make empty promises online to promote themselves at no cost.

For more about the mis-named MACC (Mid-Atlantic Climber's Coalition), which was formed entirely by NVA/DC gymbies and involved NONE of the regions' guiding services, crag discoverers or route developers... well, look for my "Other Side of the Story"article, coming soon if I ain't banned from the site by then....


notapplicable


Jan 13, 2009, 2:01 PM
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Hey Mike, I knew you couldn't resist contributing.Tongue


While I don't share all of your sentiments, I think you are right on a number of points that concern the idea of Nelson being purchased by the public through a climbing coalition type set up. Based on the research I have done over the last week on crag acquisitions that have taken place in the recent past, I'm convinced that the purchase price and location of Nelson are pretty much prohibitive. Stu would have to lose money to bring the price down low enough and not only is that region not really a "hot spot" for climbing right now but there is an abundance of free climbing to be had. I'm not going to pursue that as a avenue to acquisition, I think it would be great if it could be worked out but I just don't see it happening.

For now I'm gonna focus on getting together a small group of individuals who want a stake in ownership and management of the property. The fate of the Via Ferrata will be determined by the eventual owners and the type of access structure that is developed. If anyone wants to be an owner and have full access to the property, cabins and climbing let me know. If the Via operations are continued they alone can pay the mortgage and owners would simply be guarantors responsible for a down payment and contributions to development funds for roads, cabins, trails, etc. If the Via is chopped or access is not charged for then everyone would be responsible for mortgage and development costs.

I am going to do some math and come up with some realistic numbers concerning financing periods, down payments, annual payments and development costs. I also have past financial information for the current and past via ferrata operations and if we get a solid group of investors together then I will talk to Stu about making them available at a group presentation to prospective buyers. For now all I will say is that it can and will pay for the mortgage (plus some) at the current purchase price.

Spread the word and if you know of anyone who may be interested please have them contact me. Once I have more info. together I will look into ways of gathering investors beyond the internet and word of mouth. For now though things are still early in the planning stage.


keegan540


Jan 13, 2009, 2:50 PM
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Amen brother


saltydog


Jul 22, 2009, 3:54 PM
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what's the latest?

not concerned about access, personally. just curious.


nthusiastj


Aug 6, 2009, 3:34 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
Hey Mike, I knew you couldn't resist contributing.Tongue


While I don't share all of your sentiments, I think you are right on a number of points that concern the idea of Nelson being purchased by the public through a climbing coalition type set up. Based on the research I have done over the last week on crag acquisitions that have taken place in the recent past, I'm convinced that the purchase price and location of Nelson are pretty much prohibitive. Stu would have to lose money to bring the price down low enough and not only is that region not really a "hot spot" for climbing right now but there is an abundance of free climbing to be had. I'm not going to pursue that as a avenue to acquisition, I think it would be great if it could be worked out but I just don't see it happening.

For now I'm gonna focus on getting together a small group of individuals who want a stake in ownership and management of the property. The fate of the Via Ferrata will be determined by the eventual owners and the type of access structure that is developed. If anyone wants to be an owner and have full access to the property, cabins and climbing let me know. If the Via operations are continued they alone can pay the mortgage and owners would simply be guarantors responsible for a down payment and contributions to development funds for roads, cabins, trails, etc. If the Via is chopped or access is not charged for then everyone would be responsible for mortgage and development costs.

I am going to do some math and come up with some realistic numbers concerning financing periods, down payments, annual payments and development costs. I also have past financial information for the current and past via ferrata operations and if we get a solid group of investors together then I will talk to Stu about making them available at a group presentation to prospective buyers. For now all I will say is that it can and will pay for the mortgage (plus some) at the current purchase price.

Spread the word and if you know of anyone who may be interested please have them contact me. Once I have more info. together I will look into ways of gathering investors beyond the internet and word of mouth. For now though things are still early in the planning stage.

Have you seen this? It may help if you are serious and looking for financing.
In reply to:
Dear AF Supporter,

We’ve got big news…

The Access Fund is thrilled to announce the launch of the Access Fund Land Conservation Campaign (AFLCC), the first-ever multimillion-dollar campaign to save endangered climbing areas.

As we look to the future of climbing access in America, we see private land pressures increasing every day. More and more private climbing areas are changing hands, putting many of our crags at risk of being lost to development or closed for other reasons.

This challenge is what drove the Access Fund to launch the AFLCC, which is a revolving loan and grant program that provides local climbing organizations and other agencies with funds and expertise to swiftly protect threatened climbing resources.

We want to give you the opportunity to be a part of this landmark campaign, which has the potential to change the face of climbing access in America! Please consider giving an addition donation today or joining the Access Fund if you aren't already a member. Every dollar helps the effort to put threatened land in climber friendly hands!


notapplicable


Aug 8, 2009, 7:09 PM
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Re: [nthusiastj] Nelson Rocks Preserve [In reply to]
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Yeah, I saw that in an email a few days ago but thanks for posting it for everyone else to see. Might inspire a few new folks to sign up.

It sounds like a really good idea too. Hopefully it turns out to be longterm financing solution to an underserviced niche market.


notapplicable


Aug 8, 2009, 7:22 PM
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Re: [saltydog] Nelson Rocks Preserve [In reply to]
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saltydog wrote:
what's the latest?

not concerned about access, personally. just curious.

Unfortunately this whole idea was (at least on my end) largely contingent on future revenues from an existing residential construction company and a willingness of lending institutions to finance a venture such as this.

Our current economic meltdown slowdown threw a pretty big wrench in that whole operation so (again, at least on my end) all plans to secure access to Nelson are on hold. It sucks but downsizing and unloading existing assets had to take priority.


roninthorne


Jan 13, 2011, 1:35 PM
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Re: [notapplicable] Nelson Rocks Preserve [In reply to]
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And so now I hear that someone did come up with the cash.... Nelson is owned by the folks who own Camp Horizons, and their chief guide is Lester Zook, founder of WildeGuydes.

Thoughts, anyone?

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