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A.Love
Dec 7, 2006, 7:48 PM
Post #26 of 36
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Registered: Nov 21, 2006
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Hi All,
My name is Anthony Love. I am the current Vice president of the CCC . From reading the slew of posts in this forum, it seems as though folks are upset about a number of different issues. I'm not real sure whether I can clear any of them up (because there are some strong opinions), but I do want to enlighten you with some facts.
Laurel Knob is private property owned by the Carolina Climbers Coalition. The purchase of Laurel Knob was made possible by the generous donations of countless individuals. These individuals entrusted the CCC to preserve and protect this cliff by allowing us the ability to purchase it. These individuals also entrusted us (like it or not) with the protection, preservation, and authority to manage Laurel Knob. The ways we decide to manage our property are based on lengthy discussions, years of experience towards climbing advocacy, management and land acquisition, votes of our officers and board of directors, more discussion and then (whew!), action.
The CCC was entrusted and is obligated to open this property for public use. Laurel Knob is open for public use, but it is the job of the CCC to manage Laurel Knob! The public is composed of a vast number of individuals with differing opinions on bolting, land management, climbing styles, ect. The CCC intends to manage it for the greater good of its public users. The greater good is a middle ground that does allow everyone the opportunity to enjoy the resource, but does not allow everyone the same opportunity to change the resource to suit their personal desires.
1. Chopping of bolts at LK.
When the purchase for Laurel Knob was finalized, the first step towards opening the property was to replace all old and dangerous fixed gear. The next step was agreeing on a set of ground rules based on common sense. The goal of these ground rules was to preserve the area and minimize development impacts until a Climbing Management Plan was created and finalized. One of the rules that was stated publicly in many different venues was, No New Routes. Despite how people felt (feel) about this rule and others, it was voted on and approved unananimously(by 20 seperate individuals of various backgrounds). After the rules were set and publicized, two individuals took it upon themselves to break the no new routes rule. These individuals went back to work on their route no less than three seperate times while receiving repeated reminders about the rules (before, and during the development of their route). The individuals were approached on several occasions to see if an amicable resolution could be made. At the time, they agreed to remove the bolts and resume their ascent when the moratorium was lifted. They lied to us and then continued with their efforts to develop their route. Is this respect? It is the position of the CCC to remove the bolts on this route as they were installed while a moratorium was in place and were installed by a party in complete disrespect to the CCC, the management of CCC property and all who donated time and money to make this purchase a reality.
2. Elected officers
The officers of the CCC were nominated internally. Previous officers took time to try and identify individuals they thought would work well within the positions. These nominations were put fourth in a public meeting that was advertised to be held at a local bouldering competition, a far cry from some biased tradiotionalist stronghold. The public voted the offers to their present appointments. The elected officials spend significant time out of their lives to perforn the business that land management issues like that of Laurel Knob demand. Please take time to consider Laurel Knob is only one of our priorities wihtin the CCC.
3. CCC membership
We do apologize about not getting information to our newly reigstered members. We have been changing the definitions of our bylaws which state what membership means, instituting a new system for tracking membership and donations in order to better our business practices. While we will continue this process, we would appreciate an email reminder of your new/renewed membership. It is not our intent to be slack, the CCC is changing from a regional grassroots climbing organization last year into a non-profit corporation in order to purchase Laurel Knob. While organizations such as the Access Fund and the Southeastern Climbers Coalition have been leading the charge in proactive and professional climbing advocacy and land acquisition, the CCC is still making this large and difficult transition. We greatly appreciate your support and your patience. Membership reminders can be sent to emedian@carolinaclimbers.org. Again our sincere apologies.
4. CCC and the community
The CCC does appreciate all types of climbing and all types of climbers. We are doing our best to support the climbing community by opening climbing areas that were previously closed to the public (Laurel Knob, Asheboro), by replacing old and aging bolts with new safe equipment (Laurel Knob, Stone Mountain) and working with land management agencies (Stone Mountain, Moores Wall, Sauratown Mountain, Asheboro, the Blue Ridge Parkway) to improve and preserve our privileges to climb on other public and private lands. I apologize that we cannot create harmony in a group of individuals who do not want to be told what to do or told they have to be nice to one another and get along. I apologize if climbing became so popular that we had to manage it for the sake of the greater good.
5. input to the CCC
One person stated their input was not nearly as valued as their donation to Laurel Knob. That is far from true. I do hope you realize your opinion is one of many we have the opportunity to consider. We do appreciate your input. If you would like to discuss the matter more, please send me an email. You can get my address off of the CCC site or www.ncbouldering.com. I'd be happy to listen.
Climbing is what unites us. People choose to concentrate on their differences of opinions about climbing to seperate "us from them". The CCC offers climbing to climbers. The idea that you are free to do whatever you please when you go out climbing is a myth. The recent closure of Torrent Falls should serve as an example to all who think climbing is about freedom, respect, and enjoying the things we have.
Freedom is have the ability to choose, not the right. Respect is something you give or something you gain. Access to any climbing area is a privilege not a given right.
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rsmillbern
Dec 7, 2006, 8:00 PM
Post #27 of 36
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Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 319
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Anthony,
Thanks for posting this. I had to kind of wonder reading through some of these posts, and then reading the ones on the CCC site... It is good to hear non-inflammatory comments on this subject. One step at a time.
I met you a few months ago at ShipRock (thanks for the beta) and hope to make the March meeting, possibly becoming more involved with the CCC.
scoTt (Millbern)
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mr8615
Dec 7, 2006, 8:07 PM
Post #28 of 36
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Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 1032
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Thanks for the thorough response! I live very close to Laurel, although I haven't had the chance to climb there yet, and am choosing not to be vocal about issues surrounding use until I am a user myself. I too donated as much as I could and I appreciate the efforts and time that you guys are pouring into management of this resource.
To those of you who haven't yet read the management plan on the CCC's webpage, go read it! Even if you don't agree on all of the points, you have to agree that these guys are putting a ton of thought and time into being good stewards of Laurel Knob.
It seems that I'm going to become a local here in NC, A.Love, keep me posted with what's going on. I'm on the CCC website too, same username.
Thanks, Mark
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darkstar
Dec 21, 2006, 2:18 PM
Post #30 of 36
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Registered: Mar 15, 2004
Posts: 160
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Can i just ask two questions?
One. Did you guys actually chop the studs or just remove the hangers?
Two. When do you think it will be possible to apply for new routing at LK?
(This post was edited by darkstar on Dec 21, 2006, 2:19 PM)
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j_ung
Dec 21, 2006, 3:07 PM
Post #31 of 36
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
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Not 100% sure, but I think the new route system is open now.
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saxfiend
Dec 22, 2006, 12:30 AM
Post #32 of 36
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Registered: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 1208
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darkstar wrote: Did you guys actually chop the studs or just remove the hangers?
JL
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tobiasfunke
Dec 22, 2006, 3:37 AM
Post #33 of 36
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Registered: May 19, 2006
Posts: 18
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organic wrote: There are so many bad vibes in NC, locals not wanting guidebooks, lack of information on everything. A strong ethic of placing fixed pins in bolted areas. I am a scientist and none of these things make logical sense to me. "Let us preserve our resources by chopping bolts, because it is against the rules 20 of us decided upon." How does that make logical sense to anyone.... Someday you people will understand that climbing is about freedom and respect and enjoying the things we have. Not tyrannical rules by a few who have appointed themselves rulers elected by fellow rulers, over a crag bought by donations.
Wow, this thread has been a little bit too tolerant of Organic. First off, you don't sound like a scientist to me; you sound like a pimply little 16 year old shit. And a moron at that. Anybody who drops the line, 'I am a scientist' is obviously trying to use the name of a 'scientist' to get respect. I've seen 'scientists' and can tell you it doesn't take much to get your graduate degree at some schools. I would love to find out who you are if you climb at moore's wall. Second, you say climbing is about freedom and respect. Bullshit. There are rules to climbing. Obey them or go home. And you have obviously shown no respect in this forum, so I'll show none to you. The members of ccc who have done so much for LK are my heroes. Somebody does appreciate them.
Careful Josiah, If you stop respecting rules at moore's you may find yourself unwelcome.
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tobiasfunke
Dec 22, 2006, 3:40 AM
Post #34 of 36
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Registered: May 19, 2006
Posts: 18
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Well, I missed the second page of posts I was so pissed off at Organic. Anthony Love said it well in his closing paragraph, he just has more self control than me.
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woutdoor
Dec 22, 2006, 5:07 AM
Post #35 of 36
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Registered: Aug 5, 2004
Posts: 20
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More CCC cheer leaders.
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organic
Dec 22, 2006, 6:51 PM
Post #36 of 36
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Registered: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2215
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tobiasfunke wrote: Wow, this thread has been a little bit too tolerant of Organic. First off, you don't sound like a scientist to me; you sound like a pimply little 16 year old shit. And a moron at that. Anybody who drops the line, 'I am a scientist' is obviously trying to use the name of a 'scientist' to get respect. I've seen 'scientists' and can tell you it doesn't take much to get your graduate degree at some schools. I would love to find out who you are if you climb at moore's wall. Second, you say climbing is about freedom and respect. Bullshit. There are rules to climbing. Obey them or go home. And you have obviously shown no respect in this forum, so I'll show none to you. The members of ccc who have done so much for LK are my heroes. Somebody does appreciate them.
Why are you making this personal? That post was an email to someone, it was not written for public consumption but I decided to post it after the fact. My references to being a scientist where an effort to help people understand where I was coming from. I am glad you have "seen scientists"(whatever that means) but it seems your anger is fueled perhaps by your lack of education? If you really want to discuss my scientific qualifications I can PM you a list of research grants, awards and scholarships I have received so far. But hey like you said so many molecular biology grad programs are really easy...?!?!?
tobiasfunke wrote: Careful Josiah, If you stop respecting rules at moore's you may find yourself unwelcome.
huh? Is that a threat? What kind of douchebag comment is that? Do you own the place? What rules have I ever disrespected? If you don't respect the rules at Moore's you may find yourself unwlecome also...
You would love to find out who I am? Doesn't my profile give enough information? Gosh darnit there are even pictures... If you find out who I am(even though we are on a first name basis) what are you going to do? Say hi? The thing is what have I done wrong besides express my opinion and reply to the hate filled posts everyone on the side of the CCC seems to send me. Seems like you are trying to intimidate me. But why? cause the CCC are not my heroes?
Because I don't agree with the way people act, I must break rules and people spew hate at me. Gosh I love North Carolina...
Please tobias enlighten me to the "rules" of climbing... I thought "rules" were personal and based on ethics.
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