|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 8:25 AM
Post #1 of 32
(3049 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
This forum was viewable by guests just a couple days ago, as I was browsing it when not logged in, but now it is hidden to guests, and only visible to those logged in. This means that someone has set this forum to that status on purpose through the Admin Panel, so I am curious as to the reason for this. The S&F Forum is viewable to guests at dz.com, and it was here just a coupe days ago, and I don't see anything in here worthy of 'hiding', so what is the reasoning for proactively hiding this forum from guests ???
(This post was edited by rrradam on Dec 8, 2006, 8:26 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Dec 8, 2006, 9:37 AM
Post #2 of 32
(3044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
Lurker!
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Dec 8, 2006, 10:17 AM
Post #4 of 32
(3038 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
Yeah? Maybe because only the persons who take part in the site ie the registered users should be able to voice their opinion. Not completely absurd. Not absolutely necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 12:00 PM
Post #5 of 32
(3033 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
thomasribiere wrote: Yeah? Maybe because only the persons who take part in the site ie the registered users should be able to voice their opinion. Not completely absurd. Not absolutely necessary. Are you kidding ??? Do they still discourage critical thought in France these days ??? ddt wrote in his last announcement:In reply to: Since this post is in the announcements forum you won't be able to reply to it here. Please use the regular forums to share your thoughts and questions and continue to share your feedback. What forum would you suggest ??? How about Suggestions & Feedback. And as to, "...[only] the registered users should be able to voice their opinion". Only registered users CAN voice their opinion, as you need to be logged in to post in all forums other than Bugs, smart guy. So "maybe" you are just a talking head. Why is the same forum visible at their other site (dz.com) ??? Honestly... Why do you think they decided to hide this forum ??? Fill in the blank... A forum is made 'hidden' to _______ something. No offense, but you really are starting to appearing like a "yes man" dude. Do you really not find it a bit "odd" and/or 'suspect' that all of a sudden the forum is purposely made less visible ??? This forum has always been open, always. Ask youself, "why would they change it?"
(This post was edited by rrradam on Dec 8, 2006, 12:23 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Dec 8, 2006, 12:16 PM
Post #6 of 32
(3022 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
It's hidden to hide something, probably, surely. Anyway, YOU can still access it and post in threads as long as any registered user. ANd as said caughtinside in another topic, "I don't give a shit about your little skydiving analogy". So what is the real problem? I honestly don't see it.
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 12:22 PM
Post #7 of 32
(3020 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
I was still editing my post, as I never get it all in the first time, so you may have missed this: And as to, "...[only] the registered users should be able to voice their opinion". Only registered users CAN voice their opinion, as you need to be logged in to post in all forums other than Bugs, smart guy. So "maybe" you are just a talking head. BTW... Wipe your chin bro, you missed a spot.
(This post was edited by rrradam on Dec 8, 2006, 12:28 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Dec 8, 2006, 12:29 PM
Post #8 of 32
(3009 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
?
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 12:37 PM
Post #9 of 32
(3008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
thomasribiere wrote: Yeah? Maybe because only the persons who take part in the site ie the registered users should be able to voice their opinion. Not completely absurd. Not absolutely necessary. Sorry to confuse you... Notice the bold print in the quote of you above... ONLY the registered user are able to 'voice thier opinions' anyways, as we all need to be logged on to post in all forums other than Bugs & Errors. Do you know the details about the very forums that you moderate ???
(This post was edited by rrradam on Dec 8, 2006, 1:06 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Dec 8, 2006, 1:49 PM
Post #10 of 32
(2998 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
I didn't know that. Having seen a guest posting in the "Bugs Forum", I assumed that it was possible in other forums. My mystake.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #12 of 32
(2971 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
ddt wrote: rrradam wrote: This forum was viewable by guests just a couple days ago, as I was browsing it when not logged in, but now it is hidden to guests, and only visible to those logged in. This means that someone has set this forum to that status on purpose through the Admin Panel, so I am curious as to the reason for this. It's to prevent you from submitting another duplicate vote on the polls as guest, Adam. Well, isn't that convenient. But I don't buy it. Back in the days of yore, our polls could only be replied to once, yet S&Q was visible to outsiders. It can be done.
|
|
|
|
|
fenix83
Moderator
Dec 8, 2006, 4:25 PM
Post #13 of 32
(2967 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 2397
|
Nothing in the above linked post leads me to believe it can't be done. It simply states that until it has been fixed, guest access will be turned off... -F
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 4:44 PM
Post #14 of 32
(2961 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Then they need to turn off guest access to a whole lotta other forums, because polls are not exclusive to S&Q.
|
|
|
|
|
fenix83
Moderator
Dec 8, 2006, 4:49 PM
Post #15 of 32
(2959 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 2397
|
Fair 'nuff... -F
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 6:22 PM
Post #16 of 32
(2938 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Oh, and let's keep all official discussions on this in the (semi?) public forums. PMs provide too much opportunity for secrecy and spin.
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Dec 8, 2006, 6:23 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Dec 8, 2006, 7:27 PM
Post #17 of 32
(2919 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
rrradam wrote: This forum was viewable by guests just a couple days ago, as I was browsing it when not logged in, but now it is hidden to guests, and only visible to those logged in. This means that someone has set this forum to that status on purpose through the Admin Panel, so I am curious as to the reason for this. The S&F Forum is viewable to guests at dz.com, and it was here just a coupe days ago, and I don't see anything in here worthy of 'hiding', so what is the reasoning for proactively hiding this forum from guests ??? Adam, the answer is found in another thread:
rrradam wrote: I'm not supprised at all... The site's faster, and doesn't break. Remember, the vast bulk of users (by numbers) never added pictures, routes, or any other content to really have a concern about some of the features other than site speed. But the real kicker... Even a 'guest' can vote in these polls, as in they don't need to be logged in, so I would hazard a guess that a couple/few of the dizzy.com crowd are here voting as well. So I wouldn't put too much faith in these polls. Note-I logged out, and voted again in this poll, and the vote count went from 39 to 40 when I hit "vote".
ddt wrote: Good catch Adam. Non-logged-in users are only supposed to have read access to the forum. Till we fix this I've completely turned off access to this specific forum for guests. DDT
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 7:29 PM
Post #18 of 32
(2916 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
Let’s play investigative drama queen. When logged out of RC.com, does the Suggestions and Questions forum appear on the forum list? NO http://i59.photobucket.com/...sdavis/untitled1.jpg When logged out of DZ.com, does the Suggestions and Questions forum (a.k.a., Suggestions and Feedback) appear on the forum list, and can it be opened and read by a guest? YES http://i59.photobucket.com/...sdavis/untitled2.jpg On DZ.com, can a logged out member vote in a poll? Apparently, NO http://i59.photobucket.com/...sdavis/untitled3.jpg See this recent thread in their community forum (which was, incidentally, linked in a community forum here). Guests cannot vote. http://www.dropzone.com/...est=31091181#2558276 Let’s take a look at the threads visible to a guest in DZ.com’s S&F forum: http://i59.photobucket.com/...sdavis/untitled4.jpg These threads are very technical in nature and do not include any criticism of management. They’re also fairly stale- going back to Nov. 1? Now, since you’re logged in (or else you couldn’t read this), go to our S&Q main page. Check out the thread titles and open them up. I don’t think we need any screen caps for that one, but here’s some thread titles anyway: “Why is this forum now hidden from ‘guests’ ???”; “No embedded images- a real loss?”; Jay’s polls; a thread decrying the closing of the accidents and injuries forum, and the simply-titled “ddt & sangiro,” which is 15 pages of them getting their supposed lion’s balls poked with a sharp stick. We’re questioning authority and yes, we’re flaming “them.” But the given explanation from up high is that S&Q was closed to guests to address loopholes in the poll system. Okay. Let’s look at the recent, supposedly buggy polls in this forum that you know got some official panties in a bunch: Climbsomething and Coldclimb should be offerred their jobs back as forum moderators (75% agree or agree strongly); How satisfied are you with how the new owners of rockclimbing.com have responded to suggestions for improvement and criticisms of the new website? (45% mostly or highly unsatisfied); Overall, how do you feel the new website compares with the old website? (54% say somewhat or much worse); and natch, Which of the following phrases best describes your current attitude toward the new owners of rockclimbing.com? (42% unfavorable or very unfavorable; 63% unfavorable, very unfavorable, or neutral) As said, ddt posted that our S&Q forum was closed to guests to address the ballot boxing poll issue, wherein anybody could vote in a poll, including some non-registered guests. This was brought to the fore after Adam discovered that one could vote this way in Jay’s polls in S&Q. Such a loophole must be closed! Let’s close the S&Q forum, ostensibly while we seek to patch that hole. But let’s check out some current poll behavior. I opened Jay’s polls, signed in (of course) and I could only view results, not vote. Ostensibly, because I had previously voted in these polls and my vote was recorded under “climbsomething,” I can not add another vote. Well, good. That means people are kept honest with only one vote (per username). Then I went to campground (nee community) and voted in wjca’s “how do you like you’re [sic] boobs” poll (http://www.rockclimbing.com/...lapsed;guest=1250152), which was created this morning. No problems there, all radio buttons and checkboxes were there, so I voted for “Petit, no more than a handfull with pencil erasers” (but of course!) The poll recorded my vote and thanked me for voting (you’re welcome!) Then I logged out and returned to the thread. I could not vote, only view results. Then I personally created a poll in the always-viewable beginner’s forum. Checkit: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=1497609;#1497609 I did not vote in it. When I logged out, likewise, I could not vote in it. Well, looks like that little bug has in fact been taken care of, eh? So, what’s the REAL reason why S&Q was closed?
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Dec 8, 2006, 7:38 PM
Post #19 of 32
(2906 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
Let me see if I can sum this up, based on that fine piece of investigative journalism: Previously, anyone could vote any number of times on polls in S&Q. S&Q was then made a private forum, only registered users can view and vote one time per poll. In all other forums, all polls are viewable by guests. Guests cannot vote in them, and registered users can only vote one time per poll. Which then leads us to the $20 question!!! (Isn't that how much it costs to get a little star next to your name which now entitles you to... what, exactly?) Why isn't S&Q the same as these other forums? Oh. Wait. nevermind.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 7:47 PM
Post #20 of 32
(2901 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
I would also add, FYI, that suggestions and questions threads do not echo (appear) on the front page listing, and it has been this way for quite some time- since before the forum was closed because of "voting issues." Oh, and do I have an axe to grind? Damn skippy, I do.
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Dec 8, 2006, 7:48 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
ddt
Dec 8, 2006, 8:10 PM
Post #21 of 32
(2888 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 2304
|
The forum is open again to guests: see here. DDT
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 8:12 PM
Post #22 of 32
(2883 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
ddt wrote: rrradam wrote: This forum was viewable by guests just a couple days ago, as I was browsing it when not logged in, but now it is hidden to guests, and only visible to those logged in. This means that someone has set this forum to that status on purpose through the Admin Panel, so I am curious as to the reason for this. It's to prevent you from submitting another duplicate vote on the polls as guest, Adam. Seriously, it was in response to an issue you brought up. Check here. DDT So are you stating that guests can only vote to polls in this forum, and that the bug is limited to this forum ??? Please answer this, as your 'action' and reply imply this. If not, then it really appears that you are trying to hide a negative perception of your 'investment' from public view, plain and simple.
|
|
|
|
|
ddt
Dec 8, 2006, 8:35 PM
Post #24 of 32
(2869 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 2304
|
rrradam wrote: So are you stating that guests can only vote to polls in this forum, and that the bug is limited to this forum ??? Please answer this, as your 'action' and reply imply this. I don't know... will need to test that. I assume it's true for all forums. We have not started working on this bug. My decision to close the forum to guests was an attempt to preserve the integrity of the specific polls in this forum. I felt that if we failed to do that we would be dealing with the mother of all consiracy theories. Turns out that the real mother of all conspiracy theories was born the minute we closed it. Either way, the forum is open again to guests and the bug is still there. DDT
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 9:50 PM
Post #25 of 32
(2847 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
ddt wrote: rrradam wrote: So are you stating that guests can only vote to polls in this forum, and that the bug is limited to this forum ??? Please answer this, as your 'action' and reply imply this. My decision to close the forum to guests was an attempt to preserve the integrity of the specific polls in this forum. I felt that if we failed to do that we would be dealing with the mother of all consiracy theories. Your link to the thread that identified the problem, days ago, had the sollution to the problem... You disabled polls until it could be fixed. Thanx for opening this forum once again... I am curious as to "why" you decided another, and apparently less appropriate and workable solution was needed ???
(This post was edited by rrradam on Dec 8, 2006, 9:51 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 11:02 PM
Post #28 of 32
(895 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
ddt wrote: I don't know... will need to test that. I assume it's true for all forums. We have not started working on this bug. Did you not read my post? Now, I'm no coder, but I tested the bug theory in beginners and community by attempting to vote while logged out. No such bug showed up in a pre-existing poll nor a poll I created as a test.
In reply to: My decision to close the forum to guests was an attempt to preserve the integrity of the specific polls in this forum. I felt that if we failed to do that we would be dealing with the mother of all consiracy theories. Turns out that the real mother of all conspiracy theories was born the minute we closed it. If you want to belittle me, try not to screw up in a way that makes me look right, eh?
In reply to: Either way, the forum is open again to guests and the bug is still there. DDT Yes, the forum is open now. But I am not seeing that bug. See? Signed out and opened a poll in S&Q. Can't vote in it. The integrity of this poll appears to be intact. http://i59.photobucket.com/...s/junk/untitled5.jpg
|
|
|
|
|
ddt
Dec 8, 2006, 11:24 PM
Post #29 of 32
(881 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2005
Posts: 2304
|
climbsomething wrote: Did you not read my post?
climbsomething wrote: Yes, the forum is open now. But I am not seeing that bug. See? Signed out and opened a poll in S&Q. Can't vote in it. The integrity of this poll appears to be intact. I guess I read yours as well as you read mine above. The bug was fixed as you'll see. DDT
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Dec 8, 2006, 11:29 PM
Post #30 of 32
(875 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
ddt wrote: climbsomething wrote: Did you not read my post? climbsomething wrote: Yes, the forum is open now. But I am not seeing that bug. See? Signed out and opened a poll in S&Q. Can't vote in it. The integrity of this poll appears to be intact. I guess I read yours as well as you read mine above. The bug was fixed as you'll see. DDT He got ya there Hillary... I reply prior to reading through all of the thread more often than not, so I get burnt in this way too.
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Dec 8, 2006, 11:36 PM
Post #31 of 32
(871 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
rrradam wrote: ddt wrote: climbsomething wrote: Did you not read my post? climbsomething wrote: Yes, the forum is open now. But I am not seeing that bug. See? Signed out and opened a poll in S&Q. Can't vote in it. The integrity of this poll appears to be intact. I guess I read yours as well as you read mine above. The bug was fixed as you'll see. DDT He got ya there Hillary... I reply prior to reading through all of the thread more often than not, so I get burnt in this way too. Well, I'll take a feather but NOT the whole crow Sometimes posts get crossed. I see
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Dec 8, 2006, 11:37 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
the_mitt
Dec 9, 2006, 4:00 AM
Post #32 of 32
(849 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 279
|
Thanks for changing it back. Now just offer Hillary and Cold back their jobs and all is well :).... For now :) Mitt
|
|
|
|
|
|