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Partner xtrmecat


Jan 1, 2007, 2:20 PM
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Help on Half Dome logistics
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  I am looking at vacation style solo up Half Dome in 08 but the wife cannot get the needed time off to help me haul the needed gear to the base of the climb. I cannot for the life of me figure out how one person can get a weeks worth of water, food, a wall rack, ledge, three 60 meter cords and other misc. safely to the base without getting some of my stuff stolen, feeding all my grub to Yogi, which would mean another trip to the valley floor to get a new haul bag, or killing my fat old wrinkled ass by trying to haul it all in one trip, not possible by me. I intend to go in Sept. so the springs will almost ceartainly not be flowing and will probably need to haul water from the creek on the cables ascent trail. I will probably use this route to haul it all in anyhow.
Anyone ever done this? Kind of like the fox, grain, and goose with one boat problem. Is the a "Sherpa" service to hire? How much Old English is an appropriate bribe/tip?
I know that I'm not the first to ask but a search here and another site yeilded nill.
Bob


majid_sabet


Jan 1, 2007, 2:27 PM
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Bob
Go easy on solo , just get a partner for 08 and see how it goes then try to do solo in 10


clintcummins


Jan 1, 2007, 2:54 PM
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Bob,

I've heard you can hire mules to get your gear to the shoulder. Then you could ferry it to the base. You will need help getting it back down as well. You could hide half of it and make 2 carries. To keep your food away from bears, you would either have to keep it with you at all times, or lead a [partial?] steep pitch and haul it up out of reach of bears.

But Majid's advice is good - better to have a partner. Alternatively, pick a wall with a shorter approach.

Also, it is not a good sign that you are even asking this question. If you are soloing a wall, you should be able to figure this out, as you may need to figure other things out up on the wall. Similarly, your desire for 3 ropes (instead of 2) and the idea of possibly having your wife help carry your gear to the base are not good signs, either. Soloing walls is really for experienced climbers, and you get that experience by doing walls with a partner first (as Majid suggested). I suppose wall partners may be hard to come by in Kalispell, but you should be able to find a partner, either at Camp 4 or in advance by asking around. Soloing is very convenient for some things like learning to lead aid, and for toproping after work. It's not so good for doing Half Dome unless you know exactly what you are doing.

(This post was edited by clintcummins on Jan 1, 2007, 2:58 PM)


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 1, 2007, 3:05 PM
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  Thanks for the concern but almost all my climbing is solo and has been for some time now. Haven't been beyond a grade IV yet but this year is set aside for dialing in my systems to get all pitches at or under 2 hours. Was that an offer to schlepp a bag and help route finding?
Just interested in the Yosemite grade VI's as I got a taste of the parks granite in 05 and after snake dike just couldn't not come back. Has to be the next step in the natural progression. Soloed the snot out of Devils Tower and there just isn't any tall sandstone anywhere near here to get ready and try the next natural step, Zion or Moab.
Bob


clintcummins


Jan 1, 2007, 3:48 PM
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Bob,

No, that wasn't an offer to schlep a bag. It was more like advice that you could find a real climbing partner.

I'm not sure why sandstone (Zion/Moab) would be a next natural step. How about a roadside V on granite like Thin Red Line on Liberty Bell? Bugaboos granite is even closer in driving distance to Kalispell, but it's not roadside.

http://www.summitpost.org/...2/thin-red-line.html
http://www.cs.washington.edu/...ary/thinredline.html


(This post was edited by clintcummins on Jan 1, 2007, 4:04 PM)


majid_sabet


Jan 1, 2007, 3:52 PM
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Bob
I am sure that this was not your first however, it is good to do it with a partner first then do the same thing solo. About a year ago, solo dome climber fell to base, people still do not know what went wrong . nasty weather and rock fall are seen on 1/2 Dome, Just be careful.

Regards


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 1, 2007, 4:17 PM
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  I meant that a Zion climb would be shorter, less remote, and less long,grade V. I just do not have enough time to do a bunch of Yosemite shorter routes as it is not a small commitment for me to get there and climb. Two weeks off every time. The bugs are a good suggestion but the border is not as easy to cross as it used to be so the commitment to go there is the same as Yosemite, espeially with the remote issues. And solo is not just because there are no partners, it really is the way I prefer to travel. I love a Glacier Park continental divide winter summit solo vista more than anything else.
Yea, I followed the death slab soloist story, sad, but one of the things that help me to not make the same mistakes, like the decision to approach via the Muir trail rather than death slab.
Also just looking to take my time and enjoy it, rather than try to make it in a two day push, I'm too old to get in that kind of a hurry, even if I will need to be exposed for three times as long. It's not the destination for me but the journey.
Thanks for some very constructive food for thought, it will probably shape my decision later as the closer it gets to trip time, the smaller my sack becomes. Always seems this way anyhow.
Bob


clintcummins


Jan 1, 2007, 4:28 PM
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Re: [xtrmecat] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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Bob,

I see where you are coming from on preferring soloing, and on choosing VI over V, since you have to spend 2 weeks either way. Also, I didn't intend to imply that finding a solid partner is easy; it's probably the crux of doing a wall for most people.

Half Dome is fun but the work factor will be very high because of the long approach hike. I have not tried hauling on it, but hauling in the chimneys might be a pain.

For a first VI, you might be better off with an El Cap route like Zodiac, Tangerine Trip, or Lurking Fear. At least the approach hikes will be a lot shorter. It will still be epic getting your stuff down from the top.

One other piece of free advice is that you might want to shoot for May instead of September if you can swing time in May. September is the most crowded time on walls. May won't work for Half Dome, but it's great for El Cap.


(This post was edited by clintcummins on Jan 1, 2007, 4:33 PM)


moose_droppings


Jan 1, 2007, 4:35 PM
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You already know a year and a half in advance that your wife won't have time off, that really sux, what a long row to hoe.
Have you tried over at supertaco
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.html
You'll find some people that climb there regularly and would be in the know of some of the things you inquired about.

Good luck with your endeavor.


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 1, 2007, 5:35 PM
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  Clint,

Thanks for hearing what I said. Lurking fear is on my list but not as high up. Maybe 09 or 10. I do have the freedom to go whenever though. May is pretty wet though(runoff). Do not mind a day or two in the rain but climbing a waterfall is a bit much for me. Seems the topography of Elcap is sloping toward all routes and I have no idea which ones are dry verses watercourses.
moosedroppings, yes I know a year and a half that the wife cannot go. New job and new employers do not like to give the same time off as I get and her vacation is for our priorities,not mine, and she goes everywhere with me but is not a climber and anything over pitch 2 or 5.7 just is not for her. She probably would not appreciate giveing up 2 years vacation to sit by the Awahnee and do the wait thing just cause I cannot figure out how to get my crap up where she has no interest to go.
Yea, I know about the taco, go there every day at least twice. It is much easier for me to die in a flame out here than to have them eat me alive for coming out of my lurking spot. "RC.noob" is a gentler form of pain.
No offense meant, but you all are easier to ask than 25 year veteran wall rats that would love to verbally pummel me for even asking such a demeaning noob question. Not afraid, just more interested in working out the sequence and getting it figured out, and I know someone out there knows the Mule company's phone #.
Again thanks.
Bob


clintcummins


Jan 1, 2007, 5:50 PM
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Bob,

I really don't think May is wet (on El Cap) due to runoff. The snow is already long gone by then.

I did Lurking Fear in October, so I can't give you a direct May observation on it. But here are some routes I have done in the spring; never any problems with waterfalls/runoff:

March: Never Never Land
April: Horse Chute, Shield
May: Salathe', Nose

I suppose over on Tangerine Trip it could be a bit wet on the first 4 pitches in the spring, and on Zodiac, you might occasionally get drops blown onto you from Horsetail Falls.


(This post was edited by clintcummins on Jan 1, 2007, 5:53 PM)


lambone


Jan 3, 2007, 1:14 PM
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Hey xtremecat,

Honestly I'd say that if you havent done a grade V yet, then you be signing up for a major effort to do Half Dome solo.

What route on Half Dome? I wouldn't recomend the regular route...low angle and lots of people who climb fast on it. Probly Tis-si-ack would be our best bet for something moderate. Make sure you know how to use a drill and replce bolts properly. There is a guy on Supertacop who soloed it, I forget who.

Basically, you have three choices. Hump all your crap up on your own. Probably 4-5 heavy trips. I would say this will take 3 days at least. Going up the Death Slabs is risky now...lots ove rockfall coming down it in the last couple of years, as seen by the huge rock scar directly above it. So that leaves the loooong trail.

Or rally the troops in C4 and pay a fair wage for sherpa service, good luck. Or Hire the mules over at the stables. Not sure what that entails, but likely a big pain in the ass.

If I were you I'd solo Washingtons Column first, stare at Half Dome for a while and make sure it is something you really want to do.

Or go do El Cap like Clint recomends. Any thing on the East Side makes for a great solo. I did Zodiac solo and it was the full experience.

Cheers.

(This post was edited by lambone on Jan 3, 2007, 1:22 PM)


stymingersfink


Jan 4, 2007, 7:38 PM
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clintcummins wrote:
Bob,

I really don't think May is wet (on El Cap) due to runoff. The snow is already long gone by then.

I did Lurking Fear in October, so I can't give you a direct May observation on it. But here are some routes I have done in the spring; never any problems with waterfalls/runoff:

March: Never Never Land
April: Horse Chute, Shield
May: Salathe', Nose

I suppose over on Tangerine Trip it could be a bit wet on the first 4 pitches in the spring, and on Zodiac, you might occasionally get drops blown onto you from Horsetail Falls.


was there in late april two years ago... horsetail was running fairly well, got a little spray occasionally while on the first 4 pitches of ZM. It froze the first night, the ice falling from the top as the sun hit it was quite memorable.

Decided I didn't have the gumption to lead every pitch in 6 days or less, with an partner who had never jugged at that. We ended up rapping off, then he lead the first two pitches of the Trip to figure out the game. It was fairly dry, though a few areas had some ooze to them. When the wind blew especially hard we got a few drops, but it was not consistent.

I would have to second (or is that third) the recommendation that you hit up El Cap for your first VI, especially since you will be soloing it. The 45 min approach has a lot to do with it, plus the SE side is steep enough that hauling is (relatively) easier and any falls taken will probably be clean (less chance of injury).

If you decide to take this approach, hike in the first time with all you need to lead/clean the first pitch, fix your line and set your haul. You will also need to find a place to hang your food out of reach of #46... now you can make shuttles of the remainder of your gear/food/water/portaledge/pooptube till you have assembled your entire kit. Pack your haulbags, clip 'em in, place a half-dozen golf-ball sized rocks in your pockets, then blast for your haul station.


The rocks might prove handy to scare #46 should s/he show up in the time it takes you to jug your lines and get the bags 15' off the groundSmile.


lambone


Jan 5, 2007, 9:58 AM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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FWIW- When I soloed Zodiac it took me 5 trips over the course of two days to carry all my stuff to the base, and two trips on the descent.

I think that is about average.

Don't carry loads in a haulbag, use a back pack with a frame.

(This post was edited by lambone on Jan 5, 2007, 10:00 AM)


michaelmcguinn


Jan 5, 2007, 10:41 AM
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Post a note in Camp 4. Hire a Sherpa. $$$ to hike a bag to the base of Half Dome.

Go for it.

MM


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 7, 2007, 11:46 AM
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  Thanks guys, there is a lot of food for thought. Still leaning toward Half Dome but time may need to change. How is june for the approach from the east edge then? I was there in the first week of june and there was still a lot of snow in shaded places. but I never ventured out around the north shoulder. Is this doable or is there too much snow over steep terrain? If so can it be technically traversed? Should be able to haul it all up in 2 trips with the springs running. What are the chances of getting my gear from trip 1 ripped off if it takes two days to return with the remainder of the stuff, probably the rack, ropes, and ledge. Is there still honor amonst the climbing community or am I adding my gear to someones booty pile? El Cap sure would be easier though. I guess I may still be too stuborn for easy over what I want to get done.
I noticed a guide for Tis-sa-ack says there is major seepage through june? How crowded in this part of the season would it be? Being from the north makes july and august too hot and I wouldn't be able to carry enough water. Is Sept. traffic so busy that I would be in the way? I know solo is slow and I have as much right to be there as the next guy, but I definitely do not want to ruin the trip for many others. That would take away from the pleasure of my trip also.
Boy this makes Zodiac seem like a wiser choice. Thanks for the info and now I've got too much crap in the bean and it's getting cloudy again. With your experience I should be able to better assess the situation. I'm sure I'll be asking again soon for more beta.


Bob


enjoimx


Jan 7, 2007, 12:12 PM
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Old English???? HAHAHA. Nope. Try about 100 bucks per load...thats what me and my friends have done big hauls like that for. schleping up the half dome trail is a bitch man.

Rob


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 7, 2007, 3:32 PM
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  Tip, man, tip! No problem paying a decent wage. Tip always follows good service, which means after the haul, not the night before.
If you or your buddies are serious and in the area when I am going, I wouldn't balk at hiring someone. Just need to know how to make contact. Yea I know it is a bitch of a walk, that is the very reason for trying to work it out ahead of time.

Bob


lambone


Jan 7, 2007, 8:45 PM
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if you don't do it all yourself it ain't a solo...


clintcummins


Jan 8, 2007, 12:22 PM
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Bob wrote:

In reply to:
Being from the north makes july and august too hot and I wouldn't be able to carry enough water.

I'm not sure where you are getting your temperature forecasts from, but July is usually a perfect time to climb Half Dome - it's not too hot. Facing NW, it only gets sun late in the day. There can often be a 90+ heat wave on the Valley floor in September. I wouldn't choose September over July.

In June the snow at the base changes quickly. In early June, there could be snow along the descent from the trail/shoulder down to the base, but it varies. There is also usually a small snowslope at the base in early June. You can climb over or under it to start the route, but it could make traversing along the base more difficult.

I second Lambone's observation on what a true solo is, although of course you are free to define it yourself. Lots of good advice from him and others in this thread.


tradclmbr


Jan 8, 2007, 12:38 PM
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I actually think WF Leaning Tower would be the next logical step before half dome. Much easier logistics to solo (not that I know ive only done it with a partner). Plus the top out will solidify your next objective (el cap). Ive done lurking fear too, but the upper section would suck solo with a lot of gear. Triple Direct or Nose? Ive done the former and think it would be a good solo with pre-hauled bags to heart if not mammoth. Easy approaches, easy climbing, but long long routes. more climbing less schlepping.


stymingersfink


Jan 9, 2007, 8:07 PM
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lambone wrote:
if you don't do it all yourself it ain't a solo...

nah, that's not quite the whole story... see Libecki's greenland solo slideshow from a couple years ago? He certainly didn't swim there on his own, did he?

I guess that would beg the question where does one draw the line to define a solo? For me it begins at the base of the route and ends at the topout. Anywhere other than on-route, indegenous peoples are merely resources to be traded for on the local open market... beer, pizza, beads or frogskins, its all the same.


lambone


Jan 10, 2007, 1:39 AM
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I hear ya, but it's definately more satisfying when you do all the heavy lifting on your own.

makes the beer taste better at least...


iamthewallress


Jan 10, 2007, 8:45 AM
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lambone wrote:
I hear ya, but it's definately more satisfying when you do all the heavy lifting on your own...

FWIW, one of the most satisfying experiences I've had associated w/ a wall was finding my bf on the summit with snacks. The snacks were the best, and I felt very loved to have someone willing to spend hours hiking with loads for me. The summit bivy and descent was more enjoyable w/ his company. It wasn't solo, but whose to say what one shoudl find the most satisfying but the person getting satisfaction?


climbingaggie03


Jan 10, 2007, 9:26 AM
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I'd carry loads to el cap, but I'd have to have been in camp 4 for a long time and really need the money to haul bags up all those stairs on the half dome trail. Still I'm sure there are guys in camp 4 that will do it. All you gotta do is post up on the kiosk, and I bet you'll have enough people within a few days.


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 10, 2007, 4:46 PM
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Thanks Stymingersfink, I do not really give a rat ____ who says what about my style. I'm not in it to get points with the climbing police. Solo, no solo, I do not care what anyone else classifies the ascent as. The climb and I will work out the details, pure or not. Just have the most awesome climb to datefor me. I even think with the grub and water gone one trip down hill, will certainly be a long one, will get it all down.
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I know it will happen if I give it my best. I now have enough info to give it a go.
Bob


brutusofwyde


Jan 16, 2007, 5:52 PM
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xtrmecat wrote:
Thanks Stymingersfink, I do not really give a rat ____ who says what about my style.
Bob

Glad to hear that my advice won't be a bummer for you then:

Yah, soloing one of the most crowded wall routes in the Valley, and taking a long time to do it... that's a REAL good idea. Unimpressed


Partner xtrmecat


Jan 18, 2007, 4:17 AM
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  I do not recall naming the route. Must be running on assumptions, huh? Gotta love the net, ask for ideas and only seeing one or two that see the questions, all the rest seem to want to make judgements and give advice, "too much for you", "Poor choice for first grade???". Just wanted to find a lumping service or an idea on how not to get my rack stolen/soft goods eaten by packrats or mice, and not have my haulbag tore to shit by a bear looking for a meal.
I've survived almost 50 years of outdoor playing in some pretty wild environments. Don't need another mother, just wanted experience on how to get it done in a non remote, but commited local with the modern world morals and the smartest black bears on the planet. Not looking for critics of my goals and objectives.
If I take too long for you maybe you can pass. I would never let a bad attitude or huge ego pass though as that could get me killed. No problem with real people though. Maybe I have done some climbing and can even keep up with free parties on 7 pitch climbs and even have time for my lunch while waiting at belays.
Not exactly my first rodeo. Just the biggest.
Bob


pmyche


Jan 18, 2007, 7:33 AM
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asuclimber


Jan 18, 2007, 8:16 AM
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Re: [pmyche] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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Shuttle water and gear up first in several trips. Stash/hide it well. Then, on your last trip, haul your food up. Try to make it up early enough on your last trip to get your food up the wall a little(Lead/haul first pitch). Otherwise, fix a line from the first anchor in advance and jug your food bag up 15 ft whenever you want to keep it away from bears. In the morning jug it down to pack, or whatever.


Partner holdplease2


Jan 20, 2007, 10:12 AM
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Don't leave your food on the ground for even the first lead. In fact, I had a bear attack my bag, mid day, between the time I started jugging my fixed line up one pitch and started the haul. He/she literally held onto my bag as it was starting to leave the ground. I thought it was stuck and hauled all the harder till I figured out what happened.

And about stashing your rack? Don't even tell anyone you're stashing a rack anywhere near the base of your route. I had a friend working on an FA on Falls wall...super out of the way. He told folks he was stashing/fixing/climbing and people went up and stole all of his gear. Definately climbers, and a wall that nobody was climbing. They just wanted gear bad enough to hike far to get it.

-Kate.


(This post was edited by holdplease2 on Jan 20, 2007, 10:17 AM)


justsendingits


Feb 3, 2007, 9:17 PM
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you should have no problem retaining sherpa's to shlef loads in C4, up and down.
Do the death slabs with 50lb loads and it won't be too bad.
I did an assited solo of Zenith, had help with the shlefing and a belay on the first few pithces to get me going. I needed it, my only other wall solo was the reg on LT before I did Zenith.

You can get water at the base of the reg on HD all year long most of the time, bring a filter, I got sick from the water.
If you are doing Tis sac make sure and bring bolt's or rivets, the rivet ladder is true mank! And on the last pitch follow the brown tie offs, there are multiple sucker lines.
3 ropes is fine, fix and drop one if u want.
Not a whole lot of traffic up on HD other than the reg


billcoe_


Feb 6, 2007, 6:01 PM
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Re: [holdplease2] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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holdplease2 wrote:
Don't leave your food on the ground for even the first lead. In fact, I had a bear attack my bag, mid day, between the time I started jugging my fixed line up one pitch and started the haul. He/she literally held onto my bag as it was starting to leave the ground. I thought it was stuck and hauled all the harder till I figured out what happened.

Yup: @10 years ago or so - my buddy Mike Jackson decided that they would sleep at the base the night before and fire off early. As they got to the base late, he took the food and used it as a pillow to keep the bears away (instead of hauling it up off the deck). Middle of the night, he has a sensation of his head being unsupported by anything but still floating. Until gravity took hold, his head hit the ground. Aa he groggilly comes too in the pitch black, he realises a bear had pulled the bag with all the food in it right out from under his head.

holdplease2 wrote:
And about stashing your rack? Don't even tell anyone you're stashing a rack anywhere near the base of your route. I had a friend working on an FA on Falls wall...super out of the way. He told folks he was stashing/fixing/climbing and people went up and stole all of his gear. Definately climbers, and a wall that nobody was climbing. They just wanted gear bad enough to hike far to get it.

-Kate.

Yup, roy hinkley is on the slackline thread saying that would be a good thing as it's picking up trash. There are all kinds of bastards out there. People just need to leave others stuff alone.

Anyway-

I had 2 friends just hire mules and it worked great.


sspssp


Feb 8, 2007, 4:19 PM
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Re: [billcoe_] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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Don't even leave a haul bag that doesn't have food in it at the base. A bear will rip it up just to check it out.

Cary all the nonfood items up and stash them loose out of sight. Loose means that a bear can nose around through it (without ripping anything up) and realize there is no food.

As others have said, carry food (and the haul bag) up last. Or stash just the food part 20 feet or so up a route on the cliff (bears can get amazingly high when food is involved). It is possible that someone would rip off your food bag, but I doubt it.

HD isn't too bad in June, but it is still pretty hot from 2:00 on. Any earlier in the year and you are taking a bigger chance of getting hit with rain (if you are planning on a week trip). The spring might be running in Sept, but wouldn't count on it. By late May/June there will be a well worn trail through the snow, if any on the shoulder. It slows you down a bit, but not a big deal.

The only HD route I've done is the regular, this would be difficult to haul without a partner to steer the bag, don't know about the others.

The top of HD is pretty big, but there isn't going to be any good places to stash stuff until you get all the stuff down the cable and off the shoulder.


justsendingits


Feb 8, 2007, 9:04 PM
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you could always leave a bag hanging from the last pitch and come back later and get it.


iamthewallress


Feb 8, 2007, 10:07 PM
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Re: [justsendingits] Help on Half Dome logistics [In reply to]
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fwiw as of last summer there was a high line that seemed to be semi-permenantly installed for the purposes of helping folks keep bears out of their stuff as it's pretty common for folks to bivy at the base before and after climbing the rnwf in a day. I think it's a good use of fixed rope considering...


Partner xtrmecat


Feb 16, 2007, 1:15 PM
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  Thanks folks, I have a filter and it looks like it will take at least two others to schep loads and get off the deck. I should be able to get it down in one trip as far as Little Yosemite CG and stash with the rangers there for one day. Sorry to hear about theft of stashed gear, guess I come from a rare place that when gear is found it is usually left and then noted on a bulletin board to find the owner. Kind of assumed that todays ethics with climbers, especially dedicated wall rats were more traditional/honest.
I was there in 05 and learned of the bear issues and am savy to this but with no good options I will just have to attempt an expedition style start.
When you say bring bolts and rivets,just a few or a pitch worth? How manky is mank? Do not mind the work but it would suck to rap out because I did not bring enough rivets.
Would people respect my ropes if I fixed three or four pitches, left for two days and came back and then take off? I may be able to pull that off solo. Just need someone to help get the bag off the ground before Yogi showed up.
Man logistics are always the crux. Doing a major 9 day trip up here this July and my details never change but partners and their gear just cannot seem to be very reliable(fear and injury have changed details several times and it is 6 months off). Maybe this will be solo also.
Again thanks all, and you'll be getting more questions the closer it gets to the trip.
Bob


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


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