Never said the grigri is the solution for a stupid/lazy/incompetent belayer. There is no solution for such a belayer apart from getting rid of him.

I'll call it the feeding hand from now on. Problem solved.


I'm pretty sure I can catch most falls with a single brake hand. Though it's called a guide hand, its allowed to do all sorts of other things as well. Feeding, taking, picking, scratching, waving... things of that non-essential nature.

I don't see how putting a foot on the wall can do anything to arrest an upward pull

2) My biggest complaint with gri-gri's are that when the leader reaches a clip the standard practice is to quickly release the brake strand, place that hand across the gri-gri and pay out two quick lengths of slack. Given that the normal reaction is to grip things tighter during a fall one could conceivably get pulled towards a low quickdraw and tighten their grip on the cam in the gri-gri and tighten their guide hand, both of which would be a problem.

It is up to the belayer to know how to use the device they are using. Because a gri gri is used improperly is not the fault of the gri gri. That's why I have said numerous times that it is not a tool for the inexperienced. Someone who reacts inappropriately to a leader fall (i.e. gripping the cam of the gri gri), is an inexperienced belayer.

As for anchoring... It is quite simple, if the climber significantly outweighs their belayer, and there is a chance of them falling early, then you should anchor. Whether a belayer is pulled up all depends on how much friction the is in the system and how much rope is out.

Josh

I'm not taking you to task, Jay, because I doubt you're a beginner belayer. It's more of a recurring theme that I see in gyms. (Okay, fuck, I admit it, I go to gyms, but it's -40 today with the wind. Where else can I go?)

holding the cam while giving rope is dangerous and unnecessary

There is a way to give rope on a lead belay that doesn't acquire holding the cam of the grigri!

I will give out rope without holding the cam and still having no prob giving rope, and still have my break hand on the break side of the rope!

holding the cam while giving rope is dangerous and unnecessary

I am not saying I think its a great practice. I am saying it's basically what I consider a design defect with the device. Again, the user manual instructs you to lightly tend the break strand and if you need to pay out rope quickly, hold the camming device down, pay the rope out and return your hand to the break strand. There are these minor design problems with grigri's that I believe the device is not as idiot proof as people think.

Where is ihategrigris when you need him... because I hate grigris.

Like . . kill them? That would be some harsh natural selection.

Maybe not in the gym, where everything is vertical to overhanging, but on real rock, if even just the little bit from the ground to the first bolt is less than vertical, you can absolutely do this, and it makes a big difference. Mind you, giving a hard catch is sometimes absolutely the wrong thing to do, but it's a technique that has its place.
GO

Mind you, giving a hard catch is sometimes absolutely the wrong thing to do, but it's a technique that has its place.
GO

Just once, I would love to give a hard catch to my heavier climber, just so they would know how it feels. Maybe thats a good reason to anchor in, so that I'd get a better dynamic belay when its my turn to fall. Heavier climbers just don't get it.


Skurdey

Consider belaying directly off the anchor, for example, a gri gri attached directly to a tree or bomb anchor.

I don't agree with petje. If your rope is small enough diameter, you can usually feed rope w/o holding the cam open. But if you throw out slack fast enough (which often happens) you will engage the cam. With fatter ropes, and ones that are worn and fuzzed the device will autolock very frequently when you try to pay out slack.

As jgloporto mentions, the Petzl instructions state that you can usually pay out slack w/o holding open the cam. Then it says: when necessary, take your brake hand off to hold open the cam, then return your hand to the brake side of the rope immediately.

That said, there is a method in which you can use either your thumb or pinky (possibly in addition to the ring finger) to hold open the cam. I use this method and believe it to be the best way to use a Grigri. You still have most of your fingers on the brake side of the rope, which is plenty to lock off in the event of the fall. So even if the device fails to cam, or you totally botched it and threaded the rope into the Grigri backwards, the device will still act as an ATC and catch the fall on friction alone. Your thumb or pinky supplies enough leverage to hold open the cam and feed rope, but not enough to hold it open in the event of a fall (unless you have mutant thumbs). Plus, you can quickly return your thumb or pinky to the brake rope when not paying out slack, more so than having to move your whole hand from the device back to the rope like the Petzl instructions suggest.

This method takes a bit of practice, and is a bit different from person to person. For instance, my partner uses his thumb to hold the cam open. My hand is too small to get my hand in the right position for this, so I use my pinky. Most people are not strong enough to hold the cam open w. just the pinky, so in that case you will use your pinky and ring finger.

To get the grigri to do this when pulling on the upper rope to give rope to the climber, i hold the grigri with my right hand on the RIGHT Side (and so away from the cam, not touching it at all) and pushing it down. so it gets the angle as in the drawing.
I even have part of my fingers on the lower rope all the time, so i don't violate the rule of letting the brake rope go.

i dare to say that this is foolsproof, and safer as any other variant for belaying a lead climber with a grigri.