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mturner
Apr 26, 2007, 4:03 PM
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Anyone know of any studies or have any professional input on the psychology of chasing grades. I'm interested in what type of people chase grades versus caring more for the quality (no matter how difficult) of route. I'm interested in seeing if there is some kind of pyschological void that people who chase grades are seeking to fill. Sort of an insecurity thing I guess. In other words, can climing certain grades actually be a substitute for a lack of self-worth?
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caughtinside
Apr 26, 2007, 4:11 PM
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Good luck with that.
Here is something to think about: chasing grades is a worthy goal because harder routes are generally better and more aesthetic.
Or
chasing grades opens up a world of more routes you can do, and no waiting in line.
But, it seems like you've got your mind made up already, and are just looking for some sort of validation for your silly hypothesis.
Or,
I just totally got trolled.
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sidd
Apr 26, 2007, 4:12 PM
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This could get nasty...
Yes, everyone, absolutely everyone who wants to climb harder grades does it because the want to fill the black abyss inside of them. They are all insecure assholes too, real pillow-biter types.
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zealotnoob
Apr 26, 2007, 4:16 PM
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 I'm also doing a study: is psychological inquiry an effective distraction from poor grade advancement? No intended ill will--I couldn't resist. Carry on. 
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limeydave
Apr 26, 2007, 4:17 PM
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Your question has serious flaws.
Many beginner climbers 'chase grades' as a way of measuring self-improvement. There's nothing wrong with that IMO. It motivates them to climb harder.
Those same climbers once they've been at it for a while don't see such rapid progression through the numbers and learn to appreciate a nice line regardless of grade.
I guess I see it as a personal evolution rather than your over-simplified pidgeon-holeing of unchanging character types.
You chase grades, therefore you have a small penis.
Psychologists, pah.
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drunkenhighball
Apr 26, 2007, 4:27 PM
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people chase grades for many different personal reasons, but it's all for a psychological boost. even people that don't "chase grades" feel an emotional or psychological high upon completing a difficult climb. if you don't get psyched about challenging yourself then why are you climbing? i gues what i'm trying to say is that grade chasers like evidence of their improvement in a tangible, report-card like form while non-chasers guage improvement on how they feel on the rock.. that is all.
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ichris
Apr 26, 2007, 5:13 PM
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there is certainly a sense of conquest that I feel after climbing a challenging or impressive line. Therefore chasing grades juest means people like new challenges to keep things interesting. It doesn't seem like a very complicated concept.
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mojomonkey
Apr 26, 2007, 5:29 PM
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I do it mostly because I'm an asshole.
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dingus
Apr 26, 2007, 5:37 PM
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mojomonkey wrote: I do it mostly because I'm an asshole.
"I'm a prickly pear!" (name that movie)
DMT
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omalavet
Apr 26, 2007, 5:38 PM
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i ride MTB and dirt jump bikes to... also use to ride motocross.... and you just try to climb harder jump farther and ride faster because you want to push your limits... i do it for the adrenaline....
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socalbolter
Apr 26, 2007, 5:38 PM
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I'd rather chase meter maids.
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the_dave
Apr 26, 2007, 5:43 PM
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I wouldn't say there's something wrong with people who chase grades. I chased grades till I could redpoint 12's and 13's, now I don't have to wait in line to climb =D. Now I just climb whatever I can. I wanted to get good, so when I travel I can walk up to a rock and say, "That looks fun I want to climb it.
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sockclimber
Apr 26, 2007, 6:04 PM
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movie name: Leaving Las Vegas
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billl7
Apr 26, 2007, 6:05 PM
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If you are really looking for professional input then I don't know - maybe look for parallel conclusions from pscyh studies about why folks who don't "need" it go after bigger salaries.
If you're taking a vote for the most popular then I'd vote for caughtinside's: "chasing grades opens up a world of more routes you can do, and no waiting in line."
Bill L
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majid_sabet
Apr 26, 2007, 6:25 PM
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Boulder rats
that what you need to look for
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themadmilkman
Apr 26, 2007, 6:54 PM
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mturner wrote: Anyone know of any studies or have any professional input on the psychology of chasing grades. I'm interested in what type of people chase grades versus caring more for the quality (no matter how difficult) of route.
Why can't you do both? Oh wait, you can.
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limeydave
Apr 26, 2007, 7:00 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Boulder rats that what you need to look for
You are so full of it.
Some of the most humble climbers I've ever met are 'boulder-rats'.
Have you ever been anywhere near a rock?
Have you ever had any human interaction with a real person?
(This post was edited by limeydave on Apr 26, 2007, 7:02 PM)
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majid_sabet
Apr 26, 2007, 7:06 PM
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limeydave wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Boulder rats that what you need to look for You are so full of it. Some of the most humble climbers I've ever met are 'boulder-rats'. Have you ever been anywhere near a rock? Have you ever had any human interaction with a real person?
Dave
They always look for "V" this " V" that
They even got a new magazine to their name and do not forget , they are taking over all short rocks
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skinnyclimber
Apr 26, 2007, 7:21 PM
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limeydave wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Boulder rats that what you need to look for You are so full of it. Some of the most humble climbers I've ever met are 'boulder-rats'. Have you ever been anywhere near a rock? Have you ever had any human interaction with a real person?
Don't listen to him Limeydave. Majid Sabet means wanker troll in his native language.
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limeydave
Apr 26, 2007, 7:27 PM
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skinnyclimber
Apr 26, 2007, 7:37 PM
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And in other news:
Limeydave takes skinnyclimber to school! well not really, nice pic.
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jt512
Apr 26, 2007, 9:11 PM
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mturner wrote: Anyone know of any studies or have any professional input on the psychology of chasing grades. I'm interested in what type of people chase grades versus caring more for the quality (no matter how difficult) of route. I'm interested in seeing if there is some kind of pyschological void that people who chase grades are seeking to fill. Sort of an insecurity thing I guess. In other words, can climing certain grades actually be a substitute for a lack of self-worth?
What would be vastly more interesting is research on the phenomenon whereby untalented climbers feign disinterest in difficulty and adopt an attitude of moral superiority over more highly skilled climbers.
Jay
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dingus
Apr 26, 2007, 9:14 PM
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jt512 wrote: What would be vastly more interesting is research on the phenomenon whereby untalented climbers feign disinterest in difficulty and adopt an attitude of moral superiority over more highly skilled climbers. Jay
No... it wouldn't.
What would be vastly more interesting than either is a detailed and extended mind you, study of Gold Coast Aussie meter maids.
DMT
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macherry
Apr 26, 2007, 9:20 PM
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jt512 wrote: mturner wrote: Anyone know of any studies or have any professional input on the psychology of chasing grades. I'm interested in what type of people chase grades versus caring more for the quality (no matter how difficult) of route. I'm interested in seeing if there is some kind of pyschological void that people who chase grades are seeking to fill. Sort of an insecurity thing I guess. In other words, can climing certain grades actually be a substitute for a lack of self-worth? What would be vastly more interesting is research on the phenomenon whereby untalented climbers feign disinterest in difficulty and adopt an attitude of moral superiority over more highly skilled climbers. Jay
neither, who cares
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rocknice2
Apr 26, 2007, 9:35 PM
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I don't see a problem in pushing my limits, whether it's trying to climb harder grades or gaining more knowledge or whatever. This is not a low self esteem issue, it's a challenge.
Low self esteem is when you set your self worth in accordance with your climbing level instead of how much fun your having.
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overlord
Apr 27, 2007, 8:27 AM
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well, i try to climb harder because it opens up more routes you can climb. plus, there are some really stellar hard routes that i would love to climb, not to mention the satisfaction i feel when i send something hard i had to work for a bit.
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jcpace
Apr 27, 2007, 6:05 PM
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i climb superior graded climbs because...well, put simply, I am a superior climber. At least, that's what my mommy says...
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chossmonkey
Apr 27, 2007, 6:32 PM
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I chase grades because I don't have a tail.
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slowkid
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Apr 27, 2007, 6:44 PM
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I chase grades with a shot of Jack...
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bent_gate
Apr 27, 2007, 7:48 PM
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I chase grades. High School grades. You just gotta love 'em, I get older, and they stay the same age...
(This post was edited by bent_gate on Apr 27, 2007, 7:49 PM)
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ovet
Apr 27, 2007, 9:19 PM
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billl7 wrote: If you are really looking for professional input then I don't know - maybe look for parallel conclusions from pscyh studies about why folks who don't "need" it go after bigger salaries. If you're taking a vote for the most popular then I'd vote for caughtinside's: "chasing grades opens up a world of more routes you can do, and no waiting in line." Bill L
thats it.
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mturner
Apr 27, 2007, 10:23 PM
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First of all, sorry for obviously poking a nerve with a lot of you. I didn't want to suggest that trying to push yourself or "climbing hard" is immoral or not a noble pursuit. In fact if I had to categorize myself on a spectrum of pushing myself hard and just climbing for fun, I'd place mysef on the pushing hard side. And as I expected, many have pointed out that you can do both - a good and true point. Anyhow, what I did want to get at was the actual chase of grades...not hard climbs...something can feel hard to you and be at a grade lower than your usual max and you'll still feel great about sending it. I'm suggesting that some climbers get so caught up with chasing some subjective number that they lose sight of the fun factor that is so essential, in my opinion, to all levels of climbing. We all have been around or succumb to the frustrating phrase, "I can't believe I can't do this problem/route, it's only a (fill in grade)." I guess what I'm saying is, for some, can't this pursuit of a number be an arbitrary metric measure for self-worth?
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caughtinside
Apr 27, 2007, 10:34 PM
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mturner wrote: I guess what I'm saying is, for some, can't this pursuit of a number be an arbitrary metric measure for self-worth?
In some senses maybe. If you're really driven or goal oriented, failure to achieve that goal can be hard on the psyche.
But I don't think that this is something limited to climbing. There are plenty of people out there who define success purely in terms of $. That is what they see as the goal.
Naturally, if you put everything into that goal, it is going to have some side effects, which may be tremendously unpleasant. I'm sure you can think of other examples...
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mturner
Apr 27, 2007, 10:39 PM
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caughtinside wrote: But I don't think that this is something limited to climbing. There are plenty of people out there who define success purely in terms of $. That is what they see as the goal.
Good point. To each his own.
(This post was edited by mturner on Apr 27, 2007, 10:40 PM)
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iluvtoplayoutside
Apr 28, 2007, 4:00 PM
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Another poster posted a relevant article in another forum here and speaks of ego. It is relevant to some of your questions, perhaps?
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/...rds_of_Climbing.html
There is nothing wrong with your question, but perhaps this is not the right forum for open disucssion on philisophical reasoning. Check out the Rock Warriors Way, and buy/read the book. Arno Speaks of these concepts in depth.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 28, 2007, 5:00 PM
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If it wasen't for ego most of the worlds greatest climbs would never have been climbed.. just the way it is. It is not just climbing. As a serious martial artist for half of my life i ran into this constantly. Everyone is allways talking about leaveing their ego at the door of the dojo. What a load of crap that was.. dosen't happen. Master so and so can talk all day about being humble but tell him that his style sucks and then step out on the floor with him and I garuntee you better bring your lunch cause your gonna have your work cut out for you. Unless of course he really does suck in which case he will tell his students that he let you win because he has no ego That being said there is a lot of climbing that is done just for the fun of it. There is also quite a bit of climbing done to prove something to yourself and your peers.. how many times have you backed off of something with the statment that. "I ain't got nothin to prove" only to find yourself haunted by that climb, bouldering on your lunch break, pullups on the door jams, soloing like a mad man, wakeing up with cold sweats just knowning that next week you are going to do battle again with that same piece of stone or ice
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1080climber
Apr 29, 2007, 9:57 AM
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psychological void.... like not being a pussy?
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rmiller
Apr 29, 2007, 1:28 PM
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It is more like: Instead of competing with dad for mom's love and attention, I will compete against "hard grades." It is a classic Oedipal issue.
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dynamo_
Apr 30, 2007, 2:04 AM
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mturner wrote: ...Sort of an insecurity thing I guess. In other words, can climing certain grades actually be a substitute for a lack of self-worth?
Yeah, you know, the lycra is too tight, the polo collar is not popped, the rope isn't clean enough, and those damn burrs on the rope-end biner....
GAY.
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dynamo_
Apr 30, 2007, 2:06 AM
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mojomonkey wrote: I do it mostly because I'm an asshole.
Yep...
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dynamo_
Apr 30, 2007, 2:08 AM
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limeydave wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Boulder rats that what you need to look for You are so full of it. Some of the most humble climbers I've ever met are 'boulder-rats'. Have you ever been anywhere near a rock? Have you ever had any human interaction with a real person?
Majid is right on...and bouldering is only practice for the real thing...or don't you know that?
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kachoong
Apr 30, 2007, 2:38 AM
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You know you're a grade chaser when you start hang-dogging.
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dynamo_
Apr 30, 2007, 2:43 AM
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kachoong wrote: You know you're a grade chaser when you start hang-dogging.
Or your on the third pitch of an 8 pitch grade III and it's your lead...
Or your a big punanny like me...
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