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Are Noobs Killing Our Sport?
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richardvg03


May 25, 2007, 10:55 AM
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Re: [scuclimber] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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marcuder wrote:
did Moses come down from the mountain and handed someone the deed to climbing?

you HAD to bring moses into it didn't you! You just HAD to!


marcuder


May 25, 2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: [richardvg03] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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LOL, wouldn't be a debate unless I brought God into it...

Anyway, I waited this long to post because I wanted every flamer to exhaust themselves. Now everybody is too tired to respond and that's just fine by me...


suzie_cuzie


May 26, 2007, 6:09 AM
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Re: [marcuder] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Dingus, I'm big enough to admit when I was wrong. I called this a sub-par troll before, and that obviously is not the case. Congratulations on achieving over 200 replies!


dingus


May 26, 2007, 8:03 AM
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Re: [marcuder] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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marcuder wrote:
Iím not usually given to posting strong opinions on RC but this whole debate is pissing me off:

First off, oh manÖ I have so much fun reading RC.COM in the morning for all the hypocrisy and hubris that gets dumped on it everyday. On one side you have people who ask a lot of questions - some good, some inane or annoying, and on the other we have those who prey and troll on the first group. Anyway, no wonder nobody every posts anything of substance anymore; every thread degenerates into a chorus of voices telling "n00bs to STFU" and n00bs crying and wailing in righteous indignation.

A few sober points my friend... first off, as you probably know, this thread IN ITS ENTIRETY was a purposeful entry into the Troll Contest (which it won hands down by god).

Expressing an elitist tude around noobs as a sure a troll as dropping a fat worm into a fish farm my friend, guaranteed to produce results.

OK, it was a joke. It wasn't mean spirited and I think I actually went on to demonstrate how each generation basically murders the one before it (if it is to grow its own influence).

But its all just talk. And I don't use those goddamned smiley faces. If you can't tell when I'm serious and when I'm not? Join the club, neither can I.

Anyway... if you will take a breath for a moment and consider:

MOST of the noob questions put up on this board get answered quietly and quickly, no fanfare, even the reptitive ones. There is a lot of garbage in the answers because a lot of 1+ year people feel the need to express themselves and their answers are like WOW most of the time.

Its THAT apsect, the repetitive questions ansswered with DUBIOUS CRAP, that disuades a lot of experienced climbers from particiapting in this board.

But anyway, the simple fact of the matter is this - almost ALL of the stfu noob things are jokes. The joke is not the words, its the ruffled feathers it produces in those WHO JUST DON'T GET IT.

There, the cards are laid bare. The whole thing, lock stock and barrel are a troll. I love noobs, why I have one locked in the back closet right now!!!111

DMT


quiteatingmysteak


May 26, 2007, 11:15 AM
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Re: [scuclimber] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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ratio of noob threads without flaming to noob threads with flaming is not nearly enough!



DIE NOOBS! DIE!


shorty


May 26, 2007, 4:25 PM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
A few sober points my friend... first off, as you probably know, this thread IN ITS ENTIRETY was a purposeful entry into the Troll Contest (which it won hands down by god).
A troll?????????//////
Nooo-oo-ooo-oo. No. No no no. Say it ain't true. Jeepers, I'm crushed -- I thought this thread was for real. Frickin' bummer, dude.


dingus wrote:
There, the cards are laid bare. The whole thing, lock stock and barrel are a troll. I love noobs, why I have one locked in the back closet right now!!!111
A closet n00b?

Don't ask, don't tell.


zeke_sf


May 26, 2007, 5:43 PM
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Re: [shorty] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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I've heard n00b tastes just like chicken...







































...of the sea.


marcuder


May 27, 2007, 7:10 AM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Dear DMT,

I realize and know that a lot of n00b hazing that goes on here is just a matter of toughening up for what is an intense and sometimes very serious sport. However, I really wanted to be #200...

... LOL, no... actually I really get bothered, and this I see outside of RC.COM, that there is a few of people who whine and bitch about new climbers but don't take part in bringing them up. I guess I'm saying what I felt needed to be said for my own sanity. Ok I'm done now...

Anyhow, I do agree with you about the fact that a lot of n00bs (on this board) DO ASK repetitive questions where instead they COULD find answers if they just took initiative and a bit of perseverance to look in the forum archives. I mean isn't climbing about initiative, perseverance, and self reliance in the first place?

I guess my feeling is the proper question to ask would have been ďAre n00bs killing this forum?Ē



PS: Dingus, please donít think I was throwing a slap in your direction. I always thought your posts are highly entertaining truths wrapped in colorful prose. Cheers!


stymingersfink


May 27, 2007, 10:58 PM
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Re: [marcuder] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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marcuder wrote:
So who's really killing 'the sport'... really?

I am.

DIE, Sport, DIE.

i'd rather it be relegated back to the pass-time of social miscreants and malcontents that i imagine it to have been, than a 'sport' accessible to one and all.

It ain't badminton people... don't imagine that by buying a racquet and a shuttle-cock you will become the world's premier badminton player without putting in quite a lot of work.

The same with climbing.

...except no-one (AFAIK) has ever been killt by improper or ill-informed use of a shuttle-cock or badminton racquet.

Not so with climbing, as history has proven time and time again that even being a world-class athlete in this "sport" offers no insulation from the dastardly effects of uncontrolled gravity.


richardvg03


May 28, 2007, 3:09 AM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:

...except no-one (AFAIK) has ever been killt by improper or ill-informed use of a shuttle-cock or badminton racquet.

That's what YOU think! Badminton is freaking crazy!!


Laplante


May 28, 2007, 5:22 AM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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If by noob you mean a new climber, then well I have been climbing for four months, I was taken under the wing of a climber who has been climbing since the 70's at the Gunks and all over. I am firm of my belief in leave no trace, and I climb for myself. I do not trash any area, I don't believe in using bolts or adjusting the rock in any fashion. I take one path and one path only and am conscientious of the environmental hazards of numerous people trampling the area. I do not believe that being new to climbing is ruining the sport. Everyone had to start somewhere.


(This post was edited by Laplante on May 28, 2007, 5:26 AM)


marcuder


May 28, 2007, 6:52 AM
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Re: [Laplante] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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I've had the fortune of climbing with someone who has been climbing for almost quarter of a century and that's the point I'm trying to make - if you don't take care of the kids the kids will take care of themselves with sometimes undesired results...




Is it just me or does the word shuttle-cock sound a bit odd?


marinaaxid25


May 28, 2007, 7:31 AM
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Re: [scuclimber] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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scuclimber wrote:
On the other hand - and I can't decide which one is worse - are people who once were n00bs themselves, achieved some proficiency with tools and skills of the trade, and feel themselves entitled to put everyone else down. If you're so eager to protect the sport then educate and teach the ethic of climbing. Standing high'n mighty and pissing down on everybody else just alienates the first group and doesn't bring about any positive change in the community.

I agree. Besides, everyone has to start somewhere. You don't manage to pull a 5.13b on your first day out climbing, do you? NO.
I guess I am still stuck in this category since I have a committment to finish my graduate degree. Does that mean I'm not ambitious? HA..on the contrary. I am not shelling out $40K for a degree if I wasn't.

But, my school has a strong work ethic: If you work really hard, you will reap the benefits. Same with climbing--put in the time, and you'll get there.

But it's so counterproductive to insult those who are starting at the bottom. People need to relax a little. Heck, I'm sure some of you mentors felt good by passing your teachings down to someone right?


healyje


May 28, 2007, 1:06 PM
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Re: [marinaaxid25] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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No one should be treating beginners badly. That isn't the issue. The issue is that the gyms in each city are cranking out an annual tidal flow of 'climbers'. Now most of those folks won't last 6 months. But of those that last from 6-36 months and beyond, most will transition to outside looking for a routes that are an outdoor emulation of a gym. They are, to the tune of about 85%, entirely bolt-enabled. They are also used to routes changing in the gym and that is unsustainably sustained by bolting more and more rock - all to sustain a rolling population of 'climbers' the vast majority of whom won't be lasting more than a couple of years in the sport.

This annual tidal flow of 'climbers' isn't "keeping the sport from dying", quite the contrary, it's killing it. We were doing fine before gyms and sport climbing came along. This commercially-generated annual tidal flow of risk-averse climbers and the risk-free bolted routes they require are turning the sport into just another risk-free entertainment option - and a pedestrian one at that.


marcuder


May 28, 2007, 1:48 PM
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Re: [healyje] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Hmmm, interesting point, though I don't entirely agree that bolts are killing the sport. I think there is a whole population of sport climbers who'll disagree that climbing a 5.12 bolted route isn't a noble pursuit... but maybe that's a whole different issue altogether. Anyway, I do agree that bolting of classic trad routes is akin to pissing a Caravaggio or Rembrandt - a sacrilege. On the other hand sometimes itís pretty impossible to protect certain climbs with any gear so what do you do, not climb it?


moose_droppings


May 28, 2007, 2:07 PM
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Re: [marcuder] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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marcuder wrote:
On the other hand sometimes itís pretty impossible to protect certain climbs with any gear so what do you do, not climb it?

IMO, not everthing has to be climbed. Maybe someday someone will come along that can.


Partner hosh


May 28, 2007, 2:24 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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Team n00b is still accepting membership, and I think dingus may be in the lead for n00b of the year for 2007...

hosh.


dingus


May 29, 2007, 7:20 PM
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Re: [marcuder] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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marcuder wrote:
Anyhow, I do agree with you about the fact that a lot of n00bs (on this board) DO ASK repetitive questions where instead they COULD find answers if they just took initiative and a bit of perseverance to look in the forum archives.

Actually I think noobs are supposed to ask those repetitive questions. I was just splaining why some don't like the dynamic here. I'm fine with it personally.

I mean grade school teachers aren't supposed to shout 'Check the FAQ' every time a new student asked how to add one plus one. It pretty much goes with the territory.

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on May 29, 2007, 7:24 PM)


dingus


May 29, 2007, 7:23 PM
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Re: [hosh] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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hosh wrote:
Team n00b is still accepting membership, and I think dingus may be in the lead for n00b of the year for 2007...

hosh.

Right ON!

DMT


richardvg03


May 29, 2007, 7:35 PM
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dingus wrote:



I mean grade school teachers aren't supposed to shout 'Check the FAQ' every time a new student asked how to add one plus one. It pretty much goes with the territory.

DMT

Well said...


jt512


May 29, 2007, 8:29 PM
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richardvg03 wrote:
dingus wrote:



I mean grade school teachers aren't supposed to shout 'Check the FAQ' every time a new student asked how to add one plus one. It pretty much goes with the territory.

DMT

Well said...

On the other hand, I expect beginning climbers to be a little more self-sufficient than 1st graders, though I've recently lowered my expectations for Marine snipers.

Jay


drummergirl


May 29, 2007, 8:58 PM
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Re: [dingus] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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i think it all depends on who is your teacher. if you were taught by someone who was once a stupid noob (and maybe still has a bit in him or her), then you are not going to respect the sport as much as you would say if your main teachers were your 50 year old father who is a true ghetto climbing masta, and your best friend who respects all who gain it and humbly deserve it. I believe it is the people the noob climbs with that shapes their view on the sport.


knieveltech


Jun 2, 2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: [drummergirl] Are Noobs Killing Our Sport? [In reply to]
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drummergirl wrote:
i think it all depends on who is your teacher. if you were taught by someone who was once a stupid noob (and maybe still has a bit in him or her), then you are not going to respect the sport as much as you would say if your main teachers were your 50 year old father who is a true ghetto climbing masta, and your best friend who respects all who gain it and humbly deserve it. I believe it is the people the noob climbs with that shapes their view on the sport.

An excellent point. There is, however, the ocassional abberation. I've been climbing a little over six months and all of my climbing partners either do sport cragging or bouldering (I enjoy both). Unlike any of them I've apparently developed a fetish for crack climbing and am working on scraping a rack together, and frantically searching for someone who can show me how to use it. I'm anxiously looking forward to the day when I can go to Vedauwoo WY and thrutch my way up some of the razor-lined off-widths I saw there on a hiking trip. I must be sick or something.

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