I am graduating in a year, and I am trying to decide what to do. At the moment I am thinking between climbing guide & RCMP, and I am wondering what other climbers have chosen for their careers.
Sorry if I am missing jobs, just add them in your reply.
-Ropes Course/Climbing Guide for inner-city kids with family history of AIDS (confidence building, nice time with kids, challenging, different every day...) -Rainforest canopy tour guide in Costa Rica - ziplines, but a lot of fun (gives GREAT tips, good if you're bilingual) -Being a guide is fun too, though...
You're missing a LOT of jobs.... I guess that makes sense, I had no idea what was out in the world when I was in high school.... heres some to add to the list:
- Tradesman (esp. Welder): A welder in Alberta can currently make $2000 PER DAY!!!!!. You can work 6 months of the year, climb the other 6 months and pull a six figure salary.
- Engineer: Great pay, ok work if you like math and science. Not a lot of time off to climb, at least not until you get your professional designation and some experience (~10 years after starting university).
- Doctor: Great pay, you can climb six months and have six months off.... blah blah blah. Lots of school though.
- National Park Warden: The pay sucks, and the jobs are hard to get... but you do get to live and work in the National Parks: Banff, Jasper, Yoho, Waterton... climbing oportunaties for a lifetime await you. It's kind of like a cop but less evil.
Whatever you do, don't become an RCMP officer, the last thing this world needs is more cops!
(This post was edited by climb_eng on May 15, 2007, 6:13 AM)
Trades are good. You can make good money, you get hired pretty quick (and can go a lot of places). Getting laid off isn't a big deal 'cause you take a month or two road trip and then come back and usually get hired on again pretty quick. Extra bonus if you pick something with a lot of manual labour....gets you and keeps you pretty strong for climbing.
Something profesional....kinda sucks. I'm yet another engineer here, you're tied to your job and limited to the vacation your company will give you. You get paid well, but you miss out on a lot of freedoms.
Question to others in the engineering field....after my husband finishes with immigration stuff I was planning on quiting and going travelling for maybe a year or so. How hard after a year hiatius is it to get another engineering job (controls engineer specifically) with only 4 years experiance?
You can't beat teaching. Yea the kids can be annoying at times and the pay isn't the greatest but I work from 8am to 3:30pm M-F 180 days a year. I get 9.5 weeks off in the summer (big climbing trips), 12 days during the Xmas-New Years break, Spring Break (1 week) Thanksgiving Break (turns into a 5 day weekend) and then all government holidays (ie. Columbus Day, MLK Jr. Day, Memorial Day, etc.) When considering this, teaching ain't a bad gig at all. You always have the option to make more money by picking up a job bartending on weekends or weekday nights, or god forbid you could give up that summer break and bank a few extra thousand doing some easy job. When all said and done I figure that my salary is equal, maybe even higher than some other professionals when compared per hour and how many days you work. And on top of it I collect a paycheck every 2 weeks during the summer. Beers are on me boys, my paycheck just got deposited. :) He he!
I don't know how it is in other industries; I can only speak for oil&gas, but i've seen guys with 5 years experience come and go as they please. They come as contractors, work on a project then when the projects done, they leave.
It is possible, it's just easier when you have more experience I think.
...- Doctor: Great pay, you can climb six months and have six months off....
Ha! This makes me chuckle. Sure, there are some docs out there making big bucs, but they are the minority. And if you are making money, you are working. Consider what you would feel like working 28 days a month on average, 12-36 hour shifts with no end in sight. Climbing would be the farthest thing from your mind. Even if you are a primary care doc and working normal 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, you are only getting reimbursed half of what you bill for. THat means for a 15 minute visit you might bill $45 and get $20. Now you have to pay your billing agent, your land lord, your receptionist, your $30,000 malpractice bill, and yourself, with what comes out to be about $50-100 dollars an hour (for all that, not just you). Good luck with that. If you break even you are doing well.
If you sincerely want to help sick people, go into medicine; if you want to make money (real money) forget it.
Edit: no I am not a doc (at least not an MD.) But I know several, particularly the one that administers to me the "painful elbow procedure" when I snore. She claims that elbow proceedure is SOC. I think she is using it "off-label."
(This post was edited by carbonrx8 on May 15, 2007, 1:38 PM)
^^^Maybe not doctor, but how about nurse? By my standards, they make pretty good money. There is always a demand, so you can move around every couple of years until you've tapped out the climbing where you're at. I talked to one guy who is a nurse and he said his flexible scheduling allowed him more climbing than the climbing guides in his area. Gigolo to a rich heirress also pays well, but you may have to put up with more drama.
I am a full time graphic designer and part time freelance photographer. I work my tail off because my full time job doesn't pay much. I am so ready for a new job, I really want something working in the outdoors industry. Not sure what I can get though with the kind of experience I have. My advice though is to do something you love, not something that will pay the bills. Well it needs to pay the bills, but don't go for big bucks. My problem is I hate what I do and I don't get paid well. Best of luck to you though.
...- Doctor: Great pay, you can climb six months and have six months off....
Ha! This makes me chuckle. Sure, there are some docs out there making big bucs, but they are the minority. And if you are making money, you are working. Consider what you would feel like working 28 days a month on average, 12-36 hour shifts with no end in sight. Climbing would be the farthest thing from your mind. Even if you are a primary care doc and working normal 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, you are only getting reimbursed half of what you bill for. THat means for a 15 minute visit you might bill $45 and get $20. Now you have to pay your billing agent, your land lord, your receptionist, your $30,000 malpractice bill, and yourself, with what comes out to be about $50-100 dollars an hour (for all that, not just you). Good luck with that. If you break even you are doing well.
If you sincerely want to help sick people, go into medicine; if you want to make money (real money) forget it.
Edit: no I am not a doc (at least not an MD.) But I know several, particularly the one that administers to me the "painful elbow procedure" when I snore. She claims that elbow proceedure is SOC. I think she is using it "off-label."
I depends what you're doing as a doctor. If you want to set-up a practice, then yeah it's a lot of work. IF you want to Locum instead, you can work for 2-3 weeks at a time, make a few grand and then climb for 2 or 3 months... it's all about lifestyle.
National Park Warden: The pay sucks, and the jobs are hard to get... but you do get to live and work in the National Parks: Banff, Jasper, Yoho, Waterton... climbing oportunaties for a lifetime await you. It's kind of like a cop but less evil.
I hardly think that $60 grand a year sucks. Good luck getting a job though. It's extremely competative and wardens are highly educated up here. I don't think you get to choose where you go either. You might be enjoying climbing in Banff one month and then get transfered to a park in Manitoba hahaha....no more climbing.
...- Doctor: Great pay, you can climb six months and have six months off....
Ha! This makes me chuckle. Sure, there are some docs out there making big bucs, but they are the minority.
Carbonrx8, Keep in mind that the o.p. lives in Canada eh.
Hey Coastal, if you can handle blood you can alway be a Paramedic. 4 days on and 4 days off. In Canada they are highly skilled and make good money. In the states they don't make $quat.
One thing you will learn though is that making more money will not make you more happy. Don't get caught up in all that gotta make more and move up the corporate ladder bullshit. Work to live, don't live to work. No one ever dies wishing they had worked more, and no, company managers, Ceo's ect, in the end really have not contributed anything useful although they sure seem to think so.
Well, the warden thing is 60 grand a year EVENTUALLY. However, when you first start you only work 6 months of the year and make less than 30k... at least that's what my cousin who was applying told me.
In terms of where they send you, they do take into concideration your skill set when they put you in a park. If you're a climber or mountaineer you'd be useful in the mountain parks.... if you're say a canoeist you'll probably find yourself in some crappy park in Manitoba or something.
But yeah, the educational requirements are very high, like a masters degree in environmental science is the type of thing they look for. It's a little bit easier to get a job as a BC Parks Ranger though... less crappy parks, but also less funding and less money over all. Slavetogravity on this website is a BC parks ranger, you should PM him to find out more.
...- Doctor: Great pay, you can climb six months and have six months off....
Ha! This makes me chuckle.
I depends what you're doing as a doctor. If you want to set-up a practice, then yeah it's a lot of work. IF you want to Locum instead, you can work for 2-3 weeks at a time, make a few grand and then climb for 2 or 3 months... it's all about lifestyle.
touché
My point was directed at the more general interpretation that MD=$, not really at specifics. Sure, locum tenens works, llife-style wise, as does lots of other ways of being a doc. That really is the sad thing about it. What may not 'work' any longer, for any metric, may be the standard small to medium practice. This is sad IMO because that standard may have been the best way to deliver quality care, which is really what it is all about.
You're missing a LOT of jobs.... I guess that makes sense, I had no idea what was out in the world when I was in high school.... heres some to add to the list:
- Tradesman (esp. Welder): A welder in Alberta can currently make $2000 PER DAY!!!!!. You can work 6 months of the year, climb the other 6 months and pull a six figure salary.
Although it already has been listed, I think it is nursing. THe main reason for this is the opportunity to be a travel nurse. You find a state or city (relatively large) that you want to go to and there is probably a job there for you to do as a nurse. The wages are comparably great for a 4 year degree (if you get your BSN) and if you are hired by a travel nursing company, you can easily find contracts for 9-16 weeks and then take however much time you want off in between.
Most comapnies pay for housing and you get your full wage on top of that (which is at the very least $20/hr) They also don't really question you taking a lot of time off (which in most other proffesional careers could be a problem), since you are just doing those contracts. The only bad part is, you can't take more than a year off, because in most states you would loose your liscensure then.
(note, I am not actually a travel nurse, but am currently enrolled in nursing school... and have done some research into it)
I work in Nursing and it's great for climbing, I'm PRN at my hospital so I work whenever I want and climb whenever I want. I take off every summer for a guiding job and I took off for 2 months last fall for a road trip. You can make good money and the schedule can really work for you but It's hard to work in nursing if you don't really like it.
Being a corporate slave isn't all that bad (I'm in research). I've been here 7 years and I make a nice salary, get 5-1/2 weeks off + holidays and unlimited sick time each year, plus get to travel a fair amount i.e. I'm going to Cali again for work in a couple weeks and I'll be going to Yosemite when I'm done. Do something you love, and don't chase $$$ at the expense of your time, I traded promotions for 40 hour weeks a long time ago, all the fast trackers working 50+ hours are missing the boat IMHO.
(This post was edited by dynosore on May 15, 2007, 4:58 PM)
In Canada they are highly skilled and make good money. In the states they don't make $quat.
Wrong.
Perhaps you would care to correct what is wrong then. The U.S. pay information is from EMS message boards straight from the keyboards of those who are working there in that position. Fully qualified Paramedics making $9 p/hr. Or perhaps you would like to correct me with the highly skilled part.....
By the way Dyno, I have been working in the industry for a while, what about you?
As for pay in Canada fully qualified medics can easily make between 65000 and upwards of 80000 per year. If you know where to work you can make upwards of $800 per day doing industrial. You could easily work 10 days a month and live very comfortably with this pay. Tons of time for climbing.
(This post was edited by time2clmb on May 15, 2007, 5:29 PM)
I'll add another vote for nursing - if you can handle the gross factor and dealing with people who are in crappy moods all the time, it's a great job to have. My girlfriend has a bachelor's in nursing, and she works three 12 -hour days a week, giving her the rest of the week off to do whatever she wants. She's also looked into the travel nursing thing quite a bit, and there are awesome opportunities there. The pay is quite nice too, and the demand is high.
Well, you know the old joke don't you..... what do you call a climbing guide who just broke up with his girlfriend? Homeless! Ha!
PM rockguide, he's was a guide with Yamnuska.
IF you concider the 5-10 year commitment in terms of getting the skills, plus the thousands of dollars in courses you'll likely have to take, the pay of is pretty piss poor. Plus, when your older and can't guide anymore, or you get injured, you're an unemployed, unqualified highschool grad again.... not the greatest primary career path, though it could be fun thing to do if you have a trade or profession to fall back on if things go to shit.
I have had the opertunity to see a lot of areas around Canada through it to. Even developed a bouldering area just south of the Yukon boarder in BC... also put up a couple routes in the Yukon. Both areas were done after working 12 hour shifts logging core, but hey... summer in the Yukon, light out till midnight, why not climb. Oh, if you do climb up where I put in those routes, bring some bear bangers, or a shotgun... I would recomend the shotgun personally Nothing like a big ol' griz' looking up at you while your attempting to hand drill off of hooks all whil eon a rope solo
(This post was edited by the_climber on May 15, 2007, 10:19 PM)
Not the army. Unless you enjoy flat, shitty deserts, months spent preparing to go to said desert, 15 month deployments, under a year of time back with your family in which they squeeze 3-4 months worth of field exercises, crappy pay, bad eggs, and idiots. If this still sounds like fun, go talk to your recruiter.
Trades are good. You can make good money, you get hired pretty quick (and can go a lot of places). Getting laid off isn't a big deal 'cause you take a month or two road trip and then come back and usually get hired on again pretty quick. Extra bonus if you pick something with a lot of manual labour....gets you and keeps you pretty strong for climbing.
Something profesional....kinda sucks. I'm yet another engineer here, you're tied to your job and limited to the vacation your company will give you. You get paid well, but you miss out on a lot of freedoms.
Question to others in the engineering field....after my husband finishes with immigration stuff I was planning on quiting and going travelling for maybe a year or so. How hard after a year hiatius is it to get another engineering job (controls engineer specifically) with only 4 years experiance?
I'm sick of my job.
Depends, they will ask why he took the year off, he will to dirt bag around, they will think "hmm, he will leave us to go dirt bagging, lets take someone else".
Once he has 10 years, the he should go dirt bagging.
Not the army. Unless you enjoy flat, shitty deserts, months spent preparing to go to said desert, 15 month deployments, under a year of time back with your family in which they squeeze 3-4 months worth of field exercises, crappy pay, bad eggs, and idiots. If this still sounds like fun, go talk to your recruiter.
Combat engineer ---- then at least you to blow shit up.
Not the army. Unless you enjoy flat, shitty deserts, months spent preparing to go to said desert, 15 month deployments, under a year of time back with your family in which they squeeze 3-4 months worth of field exercises, crappy pay, bad eggs, and idiots. If this still sounds like fun, go talk to your recruiter.
Combat engineer ---- then at least you to blow shit up.
Not nearly as often as you would think. I've worked with some engineers... Just grunts with a heavier pack from all the detcord and blasting caps.
Not the army. Unless you enjoy flat, shitty deserts, months spent preparing to go to said desert, 15 month deployments, under a year of time back with your family in which they squeeze 3-4 months worth of field exercises, crappy pay, bad eggs, and idiots. If this still sounds like fun, go talk to your recruiter.
Combat engineer ---- then at least you to blow shit up.
Not nearly as often as you would think. I've worked with some engineers... Just grunts with a heavier pack from all the detcord and blasting caps.
Yes, you got to be an educated combat engineer, not a pfc, no education just means your a mule to haul shit from one end of the camp to the other on your off days as busy work. (been there done that, got educated quick)
What about the general labor jobs? I'm sort of at a point in my life I don't want to think to hard about what I do, I just want to haul shit, break shit, lift shit, swear at work, and build shit.
I still would like to make 30-40K a year, work 3-5 days a week, and have medical/dental insurance.
Is this possible? I'm 28 with no blue collar experience, where would I even start?
Just find something illegal you can do on the side to make merely enough to keep you climbing year-round. I would recommend setting up a small sweatshop somewhere in the South America's. You would need to swing by no more than once every few months to boost moral and check up on everyone, but other than that you're free to travel.
(This post was edited by mangiacapra on May 16, 2007, 12:08 AM)
I'm a carpenter, I like it. Good money get paid to go to school 6 weeks per year for 4 years. Every day is diffrent, every day I see change. Trades people are in demand and are paid well.
Put it this way. Say in the first 4 year of apperentiship you make $30k per year(very very low) in 4 years thats $120,000 you would have made. Plus after 4 years you now have a ticket a Job and make $50,000 a year or better.
Or go to university @ $5-$10k per year payed for by loans After 4 years you owe $20-$40 and your not even employed. You have to look for work then start at the bottom of the ladder!!
Basic Math: You likley $160,000 better off getting a trade.
My Wife is doing the RCMP thing, she is at Depot right now. Its six months of HELL. But a good Job at the end of it all.
molecular biologist. Lotsa school, but flexible schedule and possibility for extended time off and ability to move around the world. Oh yea, and it's really difficult and requires quite a bit of work to get to that point.
Get a trade right out of high school!!! (plumbing and electrical are best. Then by the time your 22 you will be a jurneyman. Able to make Big$$$
Then persue what ever you want for a career after that. Be a Rock guide, and make cash on the side with your trade. Do what ever you want and have a super solid back up.
Oh, Buy property as soon as you can!
If you first Get a trade, buy property skip the new car put in your 4 years you will be 10years ahead of most by age 22!!! Even if you never pick up your tools again after you get you ticket.
Not the army. Unless you enjoy flat, shitty deserts, months spent preparing to go to said desert, 15 month deployments, under a year of time back with your family in which they squeeze 3-4 months worth of field exercises, crappy pay, bad eggs, and idiots. If this still sounds like fun, go talk to your recruiter.
and if you want to do it the RIGHT way... Call the Marine recruiter ;)
How about just becoming a career student? You can build up a huge debt and you have the summers off. Well that is unless you fail classes and have to retake them in the summer. This is a surefire way to get time in to climb while going into debt! It's a method proven by me!
Get, and stay into, education. Can't believe there aren't more teachers cheering for their jobs. First you get to be a career grad student for a couple of years. No problem there. Go in the humanities (forget science, you actually have to work and study in those fields). If you have what I like to call street smarts, you'll be better off than 90% of grad students in the humanities, and the remaining 10% will be your beer buddies. You'll get plenty of funding, scholarships, fellowships, teaching assistantships, research assistantships, and other "-ships" you didn't even know existed. Trust me: street smarts. No debts.
Then you simply move to the other side of the desk. The higher level you teach (i.e. High school, college, university) the less actual teaching you have to do and the more you get payed. No king's ransom there for sure, but it's all about the time off. You can definitely get by on a teacher's salary, and you'll be able to afford your yearly road trip. I get 15 weeks of paid vacation per year, and I teach 12 to 15 hours per week during the term. I'm new to this gig, but right now it simply sounds too good to be true. It's certainly one of the best jobs around for a climber (or for anybody really). You have to get through years of schooling, but like I said, street smarts will make these very enjoyable years. And hey, there's no such thing as too much education.
Another vote for education (though nursing and some of the other suggestions are also good).
It is hard to beat the academic life in terms of a balance of rewarding work, standard of living, and flexibility for climbing, etc.
Some big positive things about academia: 1. Although I also publish, advise students, etc., the 9 hours I teach and the 6 hours of official office hours are the only "fixed" work time in any given week--that's only 15 hours I have to be "on" at a specific time. Everything else--reading, writing, grading--can get done at my own pace. 2. I get to spend my time reading and writing about things that interest me. 3. No suits. 4. I'm "working" when I'm sitting in a coffee house talking with students. 5. Pays well (its a solid upper middle class job). 6. 14+ weeks off in the summer 7. 3-4 weeks off in the winter 8. Lots of other holidays off. 9. The flexible schedule mentioned above means midweek climbing and three day weekends are easy to take very regularly. 10. Very rewarding. 11. Sabbaticals! (Every 7th year it's a half year off at full pay, or a full year off at half pay).
A few drawbacks to academia: 1. Much of the vacation time is fixed to the academic calendar (hard to get out for mixed routes in AK during late-April early-May). 2. Grading (which can poison otherwise great relationships with good students). 3. It is not "portable." If you are an accountant or nurse you can move anywhere you want. As an academic you have to go where the job is. I lucked out by landing in California (Yosemite, Josh, Red Rocks, the Needles, Sierras, etc. all in easy striking distance), even if I am in LA (not so good for after work climbing, though Malibu works OK). 4. You can never turn it off. When I worked in construction, I never thought about the job once I punched out. As a professor, things related to work (my writing) are always popping into my head on road trips, etc. This is OK, because I am interested in it; however, it is easy to let yourself work long, long hours because of this (if you let yourself).
A few other comments...
If you love climbing, don't assume you will love guiding. I love climbing, and I love teaching; but I worked for years as a guide and I can't really say I loved guiding. Lots of guiding is babysitting, not climbing. For those who do love guiding, more power to ya.
I love climbing, and I've been at it for well over two decades, but climbing is not all there is to life. I suspect that as you grow older you will find that you need more than one thing to be really fulfilled. Consider this as you choose how you are going to be paying the bills, and don't sell your soul or sell yourself short.
Money is not the most important thing about your job. I know being poor gets old after awhile; I've lived out of cars several times. Nevertheless, money will not buy you happiness. Everyone says this, but you need to believe it. Find a fulfilling job that will make you enough to satisfy your basic needs and give you the freedom to live--no one dies wishing there was more money in the bank account, or wishing they had spent more time at the office.
Good luck...
Brian
(This post was edited by btreanor on May 16, 2007, 4:03 PM)
Question to others in the engineering field....after my husband finishes with immigration stuff I was planning on quiting and going travelling for maybe a year or so. How hard after a year hiatius is it to get another engineering job (controls engineer specifically) with only 4 years experiance?
I'm sick of my job.
Depends, they will ask why he took the year off, he will to dirt bag around, they will think "hmm, he will leave us to go dirt bagging, lets take someone else".
Once he has 10 years, the he should go dirt bagging.
He?
I figure it might not be the easiest to get another engineering job if I choose to take a year off, but what can you do? If it is hard for me to find another job then maybe my husband can take his turn at supporting us . (he's a carpenter btw)
(This post was edited by granite_grrl on May 16, 2007, 12:08 PM)
Although I voted once already, for nursing, I'm gonna give it a second vote for education. I'm doing the grad school thing now, and as a science major I get a full tution waiver, plus a pretty generous stipend. Read that sentence again - I get my tuition for free, and I'm PAID to go to college. My stipend is good enough that I own my home. This is fairly typical in the sciences, too - I can't think of a single friend who's in a PhD program in science who isn't on a full tuition waiver. The school I'm at charges 30k a year for a humanities PhD student, and I'm getting that for free!
So what did I have to do to get this sweet deal? Spend two terms TAing a lab, and one term co-teaching a class. After that, my thesis advisor started paying me out of his own grant money, so I will be completely supported during the rest of my education. Yes, I work hard on research, but I also purposely chose an advisor who's easy-going and flexible with lab time. I can organize my schedule where I work like crazy for a week, then take a week off. Between that, and the flexibility of the GF's nursing schedule, we can take off for several-day trips pretty much any time we want. Not too shabby.
don't get stuck in a job you don't want blue collar sucks theres no money very little vac. bosses are pricks and a-holes you tend to get trapped and feel like yer doin nothin for nothin MAN I need a new career
Or go to university @ $5-$10k per year payed for by loans After 4 years you owe $20-$40 and your not even employed. You have to look for work then start at the bottom of the ladder!!
I agree with your math on the trades, but not the student stuff.
$5-$10k per year?! Pfft, Pahlease I wish. Try more like $12-$17 depending on your major!
As far as starting at the bottom of the ladder, well, you get summer employment in you field of study while still being a student = experiance. Decent pay, but only for a few months a year. Now field work is where the money is at.
[rant] So If your in something/go into something like Geology, Mining engineering, and in some cases biology get in the field. After a couple summers you'll be in the field working for the equivalent of $27-$35/hour 12hour/day, 7days/week, typically on a 3weeks on 1 week off rotation (sometimes 4 on 1 or 2 off). Clearing $5500/ month after taxes, but your still a student, so that almost $2000 in taxes you'll get back at tax time.
Note: This doesn't work as well if your not in a position to do field work (ie. engaged/married with puppies/kids, and fatherinlaw with poor health... which keeps you out of the field.... but hey I still have full benifits, death and dismemberment insurance for both myself and my other half, and I'm in the $45k range with a year left in my degree)
[short version]Educating cost higher than you think. Workign while in uni, mostly in summer. Get work experiance in your field of study during summers. Get expensive piece of paper saying your smart. Get payed good. pay off debts while Getting $50+k a year your first year out of Uni.
Math will work out equivalent to trads over a 5 to 6 year period. If your succesfull with education route you'll make more in the long run...
That said, if you're not as smart as that paper says, your better off in the trades and will do great![short]
I would have a house on an acreage with horses and my Toyota would be fully built up with badass paint job and custom roll cage.... if I had gone straight into the trades, I would already have that.
It really evens out in the 10 year range... one you suffer when you start, the other you break your back for an extra 20 years or so...
Edit to add: Expect at lease a $50k to $60k debt minimum on the Education route now (rent and tuition are only going up!)
(This post was edited by the_climber on May 16, 2007, 2:55 PM)
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.
Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.
It is hard to beat the academic life in terms of a balance of rewarding work, standard of living, and flexibility for climbing, etc.
Brian, seeing how you put it so eloquently, I almost wish I had dropped the mild sarcasm and cynicism of my original post. You really sum it up nicely.
In reply to:
I love climbing, and I've been at it for well over two decades, but climbing is not all there is to life. I suspect that as you grow older you will find that you need more than one thing to be really fulfilled. Consider this as you choose how you are going to be paying the bills, and don't sell your soul or sell yourself short.
Money is not the most important thing about your job. I know being poor gets old after awhile; I've lived out of cars several times. Nevertheless, money will not buy you happiness. Everyone says this, but you need to believe it. Find a fulfilling job that will make you enough to satisfy your basic needs and give you the freedom to live--no one dies wishing there was more money in the bank account, or wishing they had spent more time at the office.
Now this part is worth repeating. I agree with every single word. You can dream about being a fully-sponsored climber, just as you can dream of being a rockstar or a movie star, but unless you actually become one, the reality is that you'll spend more of your time working and less climbing. Choose something you actually feel like doing. The paycheck is important, but if you let it dictate your life, you'll feel cheated in the long run.
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.
Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.
I got through at $1700 a semester in tuition, with another ~$3-4k in debt per semester for living costs and incidentals. So, we're talking about $10k/year.
That was at a US public school shortly before the recent run-up in public tuitions. A student at the same school now would be in for twice the in-state tuition cost. Now, go out-of-state or private, and we're talking tuition costs alone int eh tens of thousands.
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.
Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.
$4-5k tuition $500/semester books and suplpies*2 semesters $1000 $300/month rent (if your lucky)* 8 months $2400 Utilities and phone for 8 months $800 Food for 8 months $800 Vehicle insurance for 8 months $500 (again if your lucky) extras such as clothes you might need $200 Social stuff (ie for stress relief) $400/semester*2 $800 Unexpected (ie medical, vet bills, vehical repairs) $500 to $1000
Total $11000 to $12500
Now if you are not lucky enough to get rent fro 300 and end up with 450 or more...$1200 exrta And lets say you have to factor in Field Courses and Related supplies $800 .... wait, fild Course not in Country, passport expired add $150
Total $13150 to $14650
Now most people will be over 100 per month for food...
The cost ISN'T just tution. And not all areas of study lend themselves to workign while studying. For examples most of my labs required (2nd to 4th year courses) 20 to 40 hours to complete. 4 labs per semester.... miss more than 1 lab per couse: Incomplete Fail on the Course. Try holding down enough hous working to pay living expenses.
If your in some area of study with higher tuition than that $17k per year becomes a reality fast.
but you're assuming no income whatsoever, and no scholarships, grants, etc.
I'd tell my kids to do rotational assignments, where you go to school one semester, then work the next. A lot of companies will sponsor this for good students, and you finish in 5 years instead of 4 by working/schooling year round, and if you're any good, you'll be a shoe-in when you graduate. The last student I had working for me doing this was making 18$/hr, not bad for a college freshman.
Trades are a guaranteed way to wear out your body in the long run, unless you have your own company I'd stay away from construction.
$12-17k? what the hell school did you do to! My undergrad, taking 6 courses a semister rather than the typical 5 and with expensive texts cost me ~$4k a semester, $8k a year.
Either you took classes 12 months a year, or you are factoring in your living expnses, which you will have whether you are working full time or going to school full time. The big diff is there is no money coming in while you're at school.
$4-5k tuition $500/semester books and suplpies*2 semesters $1000 $300/month rent (if your lucky)* 8 months $2400 Utilities and phone for 8 months $800 Food for 8 months $800 Vehicle insurance for 8 months $500 (again if your lucky) extras such as clothes you might need $200 Social stuff (ie for stress relief) $400/semester*2 $800 Unexpected (ie medical, vet bills, vehical repairs) $500 to $1000
Total $11000 to $12500
Now if you are not lucky enough to get rent fro 300 and end up with 450 or more...$1200 exrta And lets say you have to factor in Field Courses and Related supplies $800 .... wait, fild Course not in Country, passport expired add $150
Total $13150 to $14650
Now most people will be over 100 per month for food...
The cost ISN'T just tution. And not all areas of study lend themselves to workign while studying. For examples most of my labs required (2nd to 4th year courses) 20 to 40 hours to complete. 4 labs per semester.... miss more than 1 lab per couse: Incomplete Fail on the Course. Try holding down enough hous working to pay living expenses.
If your in some area of study with higher tuition than that $17k per year becomes a reality fast.
yeah, so like I said, you were factoring living expenses. I wouldn't factor them in because you have them regadless of working or school, but it doesn't matter. We're just nit-picking now.
I will agree with the not working part time thing, that was something I was never able to do. Engineering was demanding enough by itself. And you might want to add on that when you do work over the summer as a student you're stuck with piss poor pay most of the time unless you luck out with coop placements.
End result: too many people go through 4 years of school and get a degree that they can't even use, plus they have a huge debt to pay off. It boggles the mind that more people don't get into trades.
Join the Cdn Forces. Lots of benefits and a good pension once you're done. I plan to retire this fall with healthy pension, then become a rock guide in Ontario.
but you're assuming no income whatsoever, and no scholarships, grants, etc.
No, just the cost... now if you only have 4 months to work a year, you don't finish paying off the previous year... Oh, BTW for anyone interested... budget cuts to a project will drop summer student first. For example, if you land that job in October for the next summer and the budget is cut over the winter, your summer employment is never guarantied.
dynosore wrote:
I'd tell my kids to do rotational assignments, where you go to school one semester, then work the next. A lot of companies will sponsor this for good students, and you finish in 5 years instead of 4 by working/schooling year round, and if you're any good, you'll be a shoe-in when you graduate.
Rotational stuff only works IF the institution offers the courses in such a way that it would allow for that. For example, many 3rd and 4th year courses at a lot of universities are only offered every second year and in only one semester. The shoe in can come from summer work too. Also it is not always as easy as it sounds to get that company sponsorships, or scholarships for that matter too. But, bottom line is most universities and colleges are set up on a program catering to fall and winter semesters only, with the exception being "general" (not all) 1st year courses, and a few second year courses.
dynosore wrote:
The last student I had working for me doing this was making 18$/hr, not bad for a college freshman.
No not bad money, but you can also $27/h in the field during summers with only 2 years of university. Problem is you don't see all of that till after you get your taxes back.
Also, the average time to complete a 4 year program is already 5 years in most sciences and engineering degrees... and that's without rotational work.
All of this is assuming that Student loans will give you the money in the first place, and if they do... it's "assuming" they get it to you on time. My experience with student loads is that they are not set up to help the students as much as they claim. An old prof of mine crunched the numbers and found that student loans are about 20 years behind on their calculations for living expenses and tuition when you see the amount they actually give the average student.
dynosore wrote:
Trades are a guaranteed way to wear out your body in the long run, unless you have your own company I'd stay away from construction.
End result: too many people go through 4 years of school and get a degree that they can't even use, plus they have a huge debt to pay off. It boggles the mind that more people don't get into trades.
Something I forgot to mention - I was working 20-30 hours a week through school, so that was another few thousand - so we're easily talking mid- to upper-teens, just for a cheap state school education.
Now this part is worth repeating. I agree with every single word. You can dream about being a fully-sponsored climber, just as you can dream of being a rockstar or a movie star, but unless you actually become one, the reality is that you'll spend more of your time working and less climbing. Choose something you actually feel like doing. The paycheck is important, but if you let it dictate your life, you'll feel cheated in the long run.
I want a job that I will enjoy, and make enough, and have enough time to climb as much as I can.
Also, the average time to complete a 4 year program is already 5 years in most sciences and engineering degrees... and that's without rotational work.
Pffft I'm surrounded by Chem E's who finished in 4 years, and I'd dare say that's a harder degree to get than M.E.'s.
Guess it all depends on your motivation...my wife and I both made it through school and we ended up with NO DEBT, she had scholarships (and co-oped all but her last year), and I worked full time and my companies paid for my school. If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt. Scholarships are easy to get BTW, so many go unclaimed because people are too lazy to even apply, my wife ended up not even needing all that she received and we actually turned some down so someone who needed it could have it.
If you want to go to college, and are willing to work hard, the possibilities for help are endless. If I could do it with NO help from my family, no gov. grants, others can too.
Pffft I'm surrounded by Chem E's who finished in 4 years, and I'd dare say that's a harder degree to get than M.E.'s.
Guess it all depends on your motivation...my wife and I both made it through school and we ended up with NO DEBT, she had scholarships (and co-oped all but her last year), and I worked full time and my companies paid for my school. If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt. Scholarships are easy to get BTW, so many go unclaimed because people are too lazy to even apply, my wife ended up not even needing all that she received and we actually turned some down so someone who needed it could have it.
If you want to go to college, and are willing to work hard, the possibilities for help are endless. If I could do it with NO help from my family, no gov. grants, others can too.
Good for you, but it all comes down to what you’re studying. If you don't drink or do much for your stress relief then you obviously have fewer expenses. But most eventually end up with some dept. After 7 years, yes seven, of post-secondary I've ended up with half the debt of most of my peers. That's with working 3 to 4 months a year.
Motivated? Dean's Honour Roll 4 of those years motivated enough for you? Not everyone's responsibilities end at their courses, remember that. Yes a lot of scholarships go unclaimed, but not all are eligible, and even those that are do not always receive them.
dynosore wrote:
If you want to party and booze, and take summers off (i.e. be an immature spoiled brat) you'll have to deal with some debt.
Bit of a bold, pompous, and outright arrogant statement don't you think? Take summers off? Try working 56-day rotations with 3 days off between rotations. Party and Booze sure, most of us do that from time to time, a lot of us simple work through the hangover the next day without calling in sick.
I know for a fact that I'm not the only one working hard on the off time and even harder during the semesters, you should see the student's I have worked and studied with over the years. And BTW many international students are not able to get the same scholarships and funding. I've seen many friends suffer through it.
hmmm,
dynosore wrote:
companies paid for my school
dynosore wrote:
(i.e. be an immature spoiled brat)
NOW, "ie. be an immature spoiled brat"... Pull your Conceited haughty egotistical overconfident narcissistic head out of your pompous ass you arrogant little spoiled shit. Respectfully.
Oh, BTW you not the only one who "Had no help from Daddy"
(This post was edited by the_climber on May 16, 2007, 7:59 PM)
LOL personalize things much? Never said YOU weren't working hard Yeah, my jobs paid for my school, try working 40 hours + travel a week (I was doing TS&D) and going to school at night for a Chem degree, I hardly think I was spoiled.
I stand by my assertion: if you're resourceful and hard working, you'll come out of school with minimal debt. Like anything else in life, you'll get back what you put in. I missed out on the whole "college experince" I suppose, but I had other priorities....and not accumulating debt was one of them.
Put another one down for Graphic Designer. However, I love my job. I used to work for others in in house design departments but now I design for my websites and stores and only take on freelance jobs if I want to.
Can't beat the flexible hours I give myself ;)
I've also worked in the movie industry (promotions and publicity... exec side) potential for really good money but long hours and cutthroat competition.
I am a recent college graduate ( 4 years, mathematics) working in the defense industry as an engineer in project management. I have less than one year's experience and am making 80K+ to start. I also get 30 days vacation ( plus the big 6 ) a year. So it is possible to make good money in engineering right out of the gate and have a good amount of time off as well.
Downside: I am salary, some weeks i work for more than 60-70+ hours.
Upside: Project management takes me all over the world. I travel about 30-40% of my time. Lots of fun now, but i'll probably calm that down as i get older.....
Just some food for thought.
(This post was edited by ebonezercabbage on May 17, 2007, 11:49 AM)
There's really infinite directions you can go with "Education" (I place all academic careers under "education").
If you like mentoring and helping people learn, along with dealing with children, become a k-12 teacher. As previously mentioned, you get good benefits, ok pay, and lots of vacation time.
If you're very curious and academically/research oriented, go for college teaching. I'm currently on the way to finishing my masters, and will be applying to PhD programs soon. In the academic world, you are somewhat liberated to pursue your own interests as well as teach those interests to others; however you have to be strongly self-motivated (for me that is not a problem) and productive (that can be difficult at times).
If climbing is your #1 priority, don't seek a career that requires more than a bachelor's degree--graduate education is only for those that gain personal fulfillment from education (i.e. learning/career is priority #1).
So if climbing is priority #1, you should rank potential careers by: 1. ability to take time off 2. Benefits (health insurance primarily) 3. Job stability and wages
I am a recent college graduate ( 4 years, mathematics) working in the defense industry as an engineer in project management. I have less than one year's experience and am making 80K+ to start. I also get 30 days vacation ( plus the big 6 ) a year. So it is possible to make good money in engineering right out of the gate and have a good amount of time off as well.
Downside: I am salary, some weeks i work for more than 60-70+ hours.
Upside: Project management takes me all over the world. I travel about 30-40% of my time. Lots of fun now, but i'll probably calm that down as i get older.....
Just some food for thought.
Jebus H Christ, dude. How'd you land that? It took me a few years to hit that kind of pay doing systems engineering, and if that's your starting point, then you've got hella earning potential (the people that hold the purse strings usually do, though). I work in civil space, and wouldn't want to do defense, but I am somewhat on a project management path, so your secrets would be helpful.