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apollodorus
Sep 27, 2002, 5:22 AM
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This is a contest: Who's dropped the most stuff from a big wall? The winner gets a severely destroyed cam, suitable for your local shop's Wall of Shame. Postage included.
In all fairness, I witnessed a tremendous cratering from halfway up Scorched Earth, so any would-be winner of this contest better have a pretty good story.
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andy_lemon
Sep 27, 2002, 5:46 AM
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ohh ohh! I know! I know!
It has got to be Pass the Piton Pete. I don't know how many stories I've heard about his poop bag tearing as he was hauling it up behind him!
Pete says, "Look out below, eh"
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epic_ed
Sep 27, 2002, 5:51 AM
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What's up, Tom?
How 'bout a TR? We'd love to hear about 'Pete and Tom's Great Wall Epic!' Hope you guys had a blast.
I managed to drop the same #7 HB Offset twice on the same climb. My partner found it the first day when we fixed & rapped. That wasn't good enough for me, so I dropped it again the second day. If he had found it again I was going to top out on my next climb and just give it a toss for old time's sake
Shortly after I ran into you at the base of Cosmos on El Cap back in May (you may not remember), my buddy nearly got clocked by a #5 Camelot. Must have fallen 400 feet and "glided" on the way down, but hit the ground with the thud of a meteor less than 20 feet from him. The sick bastard picked it up and used it all summer on various climbs. Definitely a braver man that I...
BTW--any idea if Pete is heading to AZ for the gathering this weekend?
Ed
[ This Message was edited by: up2top on 2002-09-26 22:52 ]
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apollodorus
Sep 27, 2002, 8:20 AM
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#5 Camalot??? I dropped a #4 from the top of P10 on Excalibur. That was right before I pinned a microwave-sized block with a yellow alien on one side and a #2 Friend on the other and stood up. The block was loose, but was between two good sides. Nice way to get to the bolts in the dark.
And, no, the wallflowers don't count, even if they'd blown completely out. Not enough mass there to qualify for the World's Record Wall Crater prize.
The TR of the Scorched Earth has to begin with PTPP. He be da man. I have no interest in stealing his side of the story, because it's his.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-09-27 01:26 ]
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passthepitonspete
Sep 27, 2002, 8:30 PM
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I wish to assure you that the preposterous myths are true.
Dr. Piton HIMSELF may well qualify for a near-World Record for dropped stuff.
This is a story too amazing to be related in so short a time available, and shall have to wait until he returns to the keyboard on Monday.
In the meantime, it is indeed true:
The notorious Dr. Piton will be attending the RC.com Arizona Gathering in Flagstaff this very weekend.
Heaven help you all.
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mtnjohn
Sep 27, 2002, 8:52 PM
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Embarassing as it is, from 5 pitches up
I once dropped our complete colletion of Stoppers, which was our entire rack except QDs
We rapped and spent the next morning imatating an Easter Egg hunt looking for stoppers
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no_limit
Sep 30, 2002, 12:52 AM
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OOOOHHHH John, that must have sucked. How many did you find?
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beyond_gravity
Sep 30, 2002, 1:18 AM
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I got dropped.
Does that count?
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natec
Sep 30, 2002, 1:40 AM
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I friend of mine was attempting to make the first hammerless ascent of Zenyatta Mondatta and break the speed record simultaneously.
On, I think, the 8th pitch, he dropped 2/3 of the cams that they were carrying.
They were still able to pull the route off in 2nd fastest time but the hammerless was lost.
He will never ever live it down.
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ergophobe
Sep 30, 2002, 4:30 AM
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Some possibilities that come to mind
- Jimmy Dunn losing half of his gear on the first ascent of Cosmos and finishing anyway (not certain about this, I may be mixing it up with..._
- Charlie Porter losing most lots of his gear low on... Zodiac I think and sewing his ensolite pad into a tunic and wearing that.
- Hugues Beauzille losing his sleeping bag on a solo *winter* ascent of the Walker Spur.
- Pat Ament losing all of his pitons high on the Nose on an early ascent.
Tom
[ This Message was edited by: ergophobe on 2002-09-29 21:31 ]
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wildtrail
Sep 30, 2002, 5:42 AM
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Actually, it was Marc Twight, it was about a 100 feet, and he punched a 22cm ice crew through one side and out the other, of his calf muscle. He continued to climb on it for weeks with a festering wound.
Moxy. Pure moxy!
Forgive me for being literal and correcting you. However, this is the story I know about. If there was one involving Scott Fischer, I apologize as I did not know that. However, the Twight story is true. There were several witnesses that saw him fall about 100 feet from a route.
Steve
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rrrADAM
Sep 30, 2002, 11:23 PM
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I know of someone who's dropped one partner's whole pig, another partner's rack of pitons, and even another partner's rack of Aliens while Big Wall climbing. Don't want to name him, as I'm sure he doesn't want it known here at RC.com. It is funny how it's other people's stuff though, not his.
I guess his "Coefficient of Wank" is high.
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-09-30 16:24 ]
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passthepitonspete
Oct 1, 2002, 1:57 AM
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First of all, it was my pin rack. Good thing Ammon happened to be walking by the base at the time! [snicker]
And I've never dropped anyone's Alien rack, though two or three years ago I dropped a partner's Alien which I had to replace for him.
The benefit of dropping a pig from halfway up an overhanging wall is that retreat is not a possibility! [though believe me, it crossed my mind]. Finishing a wall with insufficient water was a good test of our fortitude [when it comes to "steeling your mind," I was forced to practise what I preach] and I was glad we didn't bail. It also had the benefit of forcing me to roughly triple my usual relaxed speed. When the locals looked up and saw us blasting to the summit, they couldn't believe their eyes!
Still though, Tom and I managed to recover everything - even my headlamp survived intact- so for that I am thankful.
I am so far ahead on the found vs. dropped spectrum, I think I'll just have to make another post!
Please click here to read Dr. Piton's Tour of Booty!
I am Dr. Piton,
and I'm bloody going to check twice next time before I attach the haul line to the wrong place.
Sheesh.
Man, you should have seen that pig fly......
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apollodorus
Oct 1, 2002, 6:31 AM
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SEEN the pig fly??? What about HEARING the pig and the attached Blue
Whale go down? It sounded like a fast-rising symphony building to the crescendo
where a netherworld monster destroys himself and his oversized tympani with
a tremendous BOOM!
Here is the official list of one of the biggest one-shot drops in history:
One Grade VI Metolius Pig
One Grade VII Blue Whale, on a catchline
26 liters of water
Forty-four pounds of packaged food
Eight pound avocado/orange bucket, on a catchline
Fourteen pounds of oversized cams (V.G. #7 through #16)
Nine pounds of clothing
Six pounds of storm gear
Two pound sleeping bag, on a catchline
Three pounds of stove, gas and coffee
Three pound bolt kit
60m of 11mm Mammut Flex rope
Ten assorted crabs and lockers
Two or three pounds of assorted bivy gear
Two or three pounds of assorted climbing gear
My Amazing Flying Whale gets the Wee-Wee Big Wall MVP Award, for
getting its catch line tangled in the trees, thus sparing $800 worth of magnesium
Valley Giants cams from certain death.
Pete's Pig hit full speed and blew out its bottom and side seams completely.
Exploding water and clam chowder saved the coffee stove (Thank God!) and
other things near the top. A few smaller cams in the pig were severly mangled when they opened the cans of clam chowder. All our other gear was in other pig, which stayed stuck to the wall for the duration.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-09-30 23:49 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 1, 2002, 3:34 PM
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Sounds dangerous to those below... Good thing it didn't hit anyone.
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petsfed
Oct 1, 2002, 4:45 PM
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Scott Fischer did in fact have an ice climbing stab incident. And he also went without medical aid. While Mark Twight took a screw to the lower leg, Fischer took a tubular ice tool pick to the same spot, extracting a core sample of his flesh. Lovely huh?
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hollyclimber
Oct 1, 2002, 6:27 PM
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The funniest part about the pig dropping was the Valley idiot who posted a note something like this on the Camp 4 Board--
SO, YOU LIKE TO THROW YOUR PIG OFF THE WALL....BLAH BLAH BLAH
LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO YOUR CAMS, YOU ARE SO DUMB...BLAH BLAH BLAH
I removed the stupid and offending note immediately...obviously no one would throw that pig off in that manner on purpose.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought rrradam was in the Valley when I found it. (someone should go play with the sport climbers, where it is safe...I can't believe something dangerous happened when aid climbing...pigs flying again, damn it!)
And, in answer to rrradams question, the flame he sent is in saying "i know someone that dropped something" blah blah like he is going to embarrass Pete with that. lame. we have all dropped stuff. if you haven't, get out there and get climbing, because you need to get up some more walls baby.
[ This Message was edited by: hollyclimber on 2002-10-02 11:08 ]
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hollyclimber
Oct 1, 2002, 6:29 PM
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By the way, the coolest untreated wound I have ever seen was Ammons hand cut wide open and flapping. No doctor, and in two weeks he was cranking again. Actually, it looked pretty good to me in the end, so maybe no doctor is not so bad after all.
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rrrADAM
Oct 1, 2002, 7:54 PM
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Sport Climber ??? I'm a Trad Climber.
Rockclimbing is dangerous, but climbers shouldn't have to worry about someone dropping a pig on them from above due to carelessness. Do you not agree Holly ??? That could've been fatal if it had hit someone.
If you, or anyone, read of a fatality due to carelessness from an above and unrelated party, what would you think of that party ???
BTW... Ammon's hand reopened when I was climbing with him near Big Bear at Holcomb Valley Pinnacles. Looked like a piece of bacon. You forgot to mention his "cankle", at least that's what he calls it.
~Adam
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-10-01 12:59 ]
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atg200
Oct 1, 2002, 8:06 PM
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Only an idiot hangs around the base of El Cap without watching for that sort of thing. I had a piton hammer land not far from me that was dropped from high on Iron Hawk, and that would have killed me just as surely as a haul bag would have - though the haul bag is easier to see and therefore dodge.
How many walls have you done Adam? Yes, its poor form to drop a whole bag off a wall, but on the other hand s--- happens - especially on walls.
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rrrADAM
Oct 1, 2002, 8:26 PM
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I have done NONE, but I have had to dodge a Nalgene bottle dropped from an above party while leading P3 of a 5 Pitch Trad climb.
How easy is it to dodge a pig dropped when you are leading an A5 if it is headed toward you ???
Where was the flame in my above posts ??? I even included the 'razz' smiley on the first, but I detect a tone of flame sent my way. Are my points not valid ??? It sounds as if you are saying that on Big Walls, no one is responsible for their actions, as "shit happens".
My first post was "on topic", and my current point is that if someone were to get injured or die due to the carelessness of and anrelated party climbing above, it would be on the above party, not on the climber injured. As climbers we take on the dangers, and act accoprdingly. But we should not have to be subjected to the dangers of a careless party above. Do you not think there is a difference between "shit happens" and carelessness ???
Sport Climbing... Few details to pay attention to.
Trad Climbing... Lots of details to pay attention to.
I would assume that Aid Climbing has the most amount of details that need "attention to detail".
Do you not agree Andy ???
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-10-01 13:41 ]
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drector
Oct 1, 2002, 8:44 PM
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I would worry about climbing with someone who incorrectly tied the pig (That sounds funny). I'd worry that I'd be watching that guy/gal on his way down and wondering how I would finish solo.
I dropped a nut off of a 50 foot crag climb. I felt stupid for not taking more care in managing my gear.
No one in this thread had the nerve to claim a dropped partner. Just pigs. This has sure got to sound funny to someone who doesn't know the lingo.
So should I start a new thread asking who trad climbs and has never dropped ANY gear?
Dave
[ This Message was edited by: drector on 2002-10-01 14:58 ]
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atg200
Oct 1, 2002, 8:50 PM
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Yup, I agree care should be taken, but things get dropped on walls all the time. That is why the base of El Cap occasionally looks like a junkyard. I doubt that the pig would go anywhere near another party - that part of El Cap is way overhanging, and nothing over there is an absolute plumb line. I have never dropped a pig off a wall, but it can and has happened due to carelessness or the bag itself blowing apart. Lots of things falling off El Cap can kill you - loose rocks, hammers, a rack of pins, etc. Being aware of things falling from the sky is just a part of El Cap.
I don't think I flamed any more than you did Adam. It seemed to me you are dogging on Pete as per usual, but if not and my post seems like a harsh flame, I apologize.
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spiffdog
Oct 1, 2002, 9:32 PM
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As for dropping gear, it's going to happen sooner or later (it's a bona fide big wall fact) unless your willing to deal with dozens of tethers and keeper cords. I'm confused about one thing though. Pete tied the haul line to the wrong locker, so when he released the load release knot, the pig went for the big ride. But how exactly did you release the knot? Did you just let it rip? Wouldn't the better way be to lower out the pig slowly on the load release knot until the haul line comes taut? Simply untying the knot and letting go would seem to be the mark of a BWT! Glad to hear the giants survived.
Spiff
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kindredlion
Oct 1, 2002, 10:31 PM
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Ditto on the giants, that was nice to hear that they're still around... are you still selling them Tom? BTW Tom we haven't met personally, but I have been around the valley hearing all these stories from the locals, we should meet one of these days...
Ammons flapper was sick three and a half weeks ago! I guess he's better, good for him...
I am glad, but Spiff beat me to it.. What the FRiCk? Doc, what did you do up there really? I know you are drafting the full color TR, but wee want the dirty deets.. Did you lower the swine out, or was there some quick pulling?
Anxious for the story...
I dropped a locker once... fell 1200 feet to the tallus and bounced... I hope no one sees that crab ever again...
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passthepitonspete
Oct 1, 2002, 10:37 PM
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...."
Everyone who is a climber drops stuff. Anyone who claims not to have dropped stuff is a liar, and a fool to expect anyone would believe him.
[In case any moron reading this believes that that was an attempted flame, please note that I have indeed observed that nobody in this thread has made this claim.
Duh.]
Dropping stuff off of El Cap is an everyday occurence. Just hang around the base for a few hours and see what comes your way.
What makes dropping stuff off of El Cap particularly noteworthy is a few things.
Climbing big walls is particularly complex, involving many many operations and tons and tons of gear. It's not like trad climbing, or [shudder] sport climbing where the operations tend to be simpler. When you're handling lots of stuff, the likelihood of dropping it is higher. That's one reason more stuff gets dropped off of big walls.
El Cap is a crowded place, with lots of people at the base. There is a greater chance of being hit, but fortunately the wall overhangs so much, especially on the southeast face, that the landing zone for dropped gear is far from the maddening crowd.
You are well advised to wear your helmet when walking at the base of El Cap. As far as I am aware, nobody has yet been killed by either falling rock [even more prevalent than falling gear!] or dropped equipment at El Cap's base, but sooner or later it will happen.
It is a statistical certainty. Walk the base of El Cap with fear and trepidation, especially when people like me are above you climbing seldom-repeated routes like Scorched Earth where there is a lot of loose and dangerous rock.
When somebody dies at the base of El Cap, it won't be a pig that kills them - since that arrives with all the subtlety of a turbofan jet engine - it'll be from something far more insidious, like a dropped piton, or the carabiner on the sling that fell a thousand feet from Zodiac and missed my unhelmeted noggin by four feet.
Another point about El Cap is that it is big - I mean, it's really m*therf*cking BIG! So when stuff falls, it falls big time. It tends to be spectacular.
There is also the selective memory aspect of those who may choose to cast stones - if you are climbing one- or two-pitch routes most of the time, then you tend to forget dropping stuff since you can just pick it up. When you drop stuff off of El Cap, you usually lose it.
Unless you're me. I was rather lucky since we didn't lose anything, and nothing even got particularly damaged. Even my headlamp is fine.
Then again, I tend to be luckier than the average soul. Or at least it seems that way to me. My glass is never half-empty....
Most significantly, though, I want to speak about the concept of carelessness and irresponsibility versus having an accident or the notion that "shit happens."
Note this: there is NO difference.
Stuff gets dropped. You do it, and I do it. And it's all expensive stuff. We don't do it on purpose. It's done accidentally. Whether it be a harmless piece of webbing, or an enormous pig, it's still an accidental occurence.
Dropping stuff is all of the above: accidental, irresponsible, and just plain stupid.
But it happens.
Only a fool would suggest that there is a difference between "carelessness" and "shit happens."
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phillyb285
Oct 1, 2002, 10:45 PM
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i dropped my harness once while climbing, lol not really
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rrrADAM
Oct 1, 2002, 11:16 PM
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Great reply Pete, very detailed and informative. And I agree with associating carelessness with accidents, as they are not done on purpose.
I disagree with the final statement though.
In regards to this situation:
carelessness=an event that would have been prevented with "attention to detail". It is within one's control.
"shit happens"=this is what would happen if a person was hit by a falling pig. It is out of their control, therefore it cannot be prevented by them.
You see... In this situation, if it were'nt for the "carelessness" of one, "shit wouldn't happen" to the other.
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-10-01 16:24 ]
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bradhill
Oct 1, 2002, 11:43 PM
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I think both rrradam and the Dr. are right. There is a difference between carelessness and s--- happens. BUT no matter how careful you are, give it enough time, s--- will happen.
You're perfectly allright to chew out a gumby who bumbles down a chossy rappell knocking s--- all over the place and not calling 'rock' for being careless. You probably shouldn't flame the experienced climber who, despite his best efforts to be careful, accidentally knocks a rock off once in awhile.
I think we all know that Pete is not only quite organized and attentive to detail, but goes to great lengths to educate others on such matters. It sucks he dropped the pig; lucklily nobody was hurt. Could he have prevented it? Yes. Was it part of a bigger pattern of irresponsible and dangerous behavior for which he should be chewed out? No. It was s--- happening.
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bighigaz
Oct 2, 2002, 12:45 AM
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WOW!Things tend to get a little heated around here, don't they?! Dropping anything sucks, especially if someone is injurred or killed... I'm not much for bragging, and I have nothing to brag about in this case, but I nearly dropped my brother a couple of months ago, and I've felt horrible ever since. Be carefull out there! I know it's off topic, but don't get too keen on dropping things... pigs are replaceable, but people are not. Climb On!
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hollyclimber
Oct 2, 2002, 6:06 PM
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Well, I can't read everything right now, but I am glad that most people realize that a big wall is a dangerous place. If you can't handle the possibility of a pig flying, you need to stay a safe distance away. If it is flying, you typically have plenty of time to move out of the way, and it makes a huge warning noise. Even a small cam or biner tends to make a warning noise from that height.
Adam, you probably can't get hit by a pig if you are leading A5...the wall is too overhanging and/or there are not multiple parties on A5 at one time. Or, if there is, it is your buddy so it is your own problem.
The biggest risk you face of getting hit by something when actually climbing is getting peed on by a party above. And, that is almost guaranteed to happen. (or you might just pee on yourself too, so whats the diff)
Its going to be fairly hard to hit someone ON EL CAP by dropping something. Proof--look at the garbage and where it falls (same fall line as anything else). Most garbage on El Cap hits the base or the Talus field, depending on where you are. How many people find garbage on EL CAP that fell there? I haven't seen it yet. Just garbage deposited on ledges and on the ground.
While there have been some near misses, last I heard no one has been killed by flying pigs yet.
On a final note, I LOVE the dropping of gear. On this trip alone, it meant I obtained: 1 blue alien, 1 red alien, 4 regular nuts, 2 offset nuts, three biners, two slings, one ATC, one cool british backpack, two hats and probably more stuff I am forgetting.
hgb
[ This Message was edited by: hollyclimber on 2002-10-02 11:15 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 2, 2002, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
The biggest risk you face of getting hit by something when actually climbing is getting peed on by a party above. And, that is almost guaranteed to happen.
Ewwwww... I think I'd rather have a pig coming my way.
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ergophobe
Oct 2, 2002, 11:53 PM
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It don't taste very good, but pee won't hurt ya.
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bighigaz
Oct 4, 2002, 12:42 AM
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And Pee won't break your neck!
[ This Message was edited by: bighigaz on 2002-10-03 17:43 ]
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apollodorus
Oct 8, 2002, 8:52 AM
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BWT-approved solution:
http://www.buycostumes.com/Detail.asp?ProdID=1061
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drunkenmonkey
Oct 8, 2002, 3:34 PM
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i can just see that hat stopping a number four cam thats been lobbed off by a party above you. reinforced kevlar sheeting, titanium spars and a special air bag for those largeer impacts...
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gunked
Oct 14, 2002, 7:34 AM
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Apollodorus,
That's one scary face in the photo! Although, Im ashamed to admit it, I dropped an 8mm video camera halfway up the Prow late last year. I'm ashamed, because of it's difficulty in cleaning up the mess. If it was a nut or a cam, It wouldn't leave such a mess. The naturalist in me is still a little upset. On the other hand, it was the least valuable piece of equipment at the time. I'm glad I didn't drop the water!
Outside of a hunk of plastic and metal, I've only let a couple of small wires take the plunge. I believe I've almost been hit with more crap than I've droppped. While hauling to the Zodiac this spring, my partner came way too close to being pounded into shape by a hammer dropped from 6-8 pitches up. (Not Zodiac, something just to the left) While rapping down the East Ledges, the party above us dropped a full nalgene bottle of water (lexan) which missed our heads by about 2 feet and exploded on the ledge. I have no doubt that that would've snapped one of our necks if any closer. We got soaked, but the shards also, quite luckily, missed us!
[ This Message was edited by: gunked on 2002-10-14 00:41 ]
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