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ccourtney_99
Jun 10, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead?
Thanks
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mr-pink
Jun 10, 2007, 7:23 PM
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on slab: take a big jump back
flat: smal jump
overhang: just fall
try to stay upright, face towards the rock, and make sure your feet make contact first.
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gmasterb
Jun 10, 2007, 7:57 PM
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always make sure the rope isn't behind your leg. If you do get it back there it will flip you upside down and expose the back of your mellon to the rock. I also don't 100% agree with the given directions for falling on slab, because I was told that on slab a leader should try to keep themselves from building too much speed. So you try to stay on your toes and sort of paw at the rock to keep from accelerating too much. (A great thing for self induced road rash)
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rymep
Jun 10, 2007, 8:13 PM
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Wear a helmet.
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time2clmb
Jun 10, 2007, 9:49 PM
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ccourtney_99 wrote: Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead? Thanks
You seem like a pretty big guy...no offense. Because of this I would want a very experienced belayer lead belaying for me if the weight difference was very large.
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microbarn
Jun 10, 2007, 9:59 PM
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time2clmb wrote: ccourtney_99 wrote: Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead? Thanks You seem like a pretty big guy...no offense. Because of this I would want a very experienced belayer lead belaying for me if the weight difference was very large.
I always want an experienced belayer independent of the weight difference. If there is a big diff, just have them anchor themselves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When you fall:
arms outstretched in front about chest level elbows should be slightly bent
hands shoulder width apart
feet shoulder width apart and slightly in front of your body
knees slightly bent
(think cat-like)
look down see the possible obstacles coming and react to them
avoid grabbing at the rope
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hosh
Jun 10, 2007, 10:21 PM
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ccourtney_99 wrote: Im a new climber and so far I have only done some top roping. I would like to soon start to try and lead some easier routes (5.6/5.7) but I cringe at the thought of falling on lead. Im a pretty heavy guy and all I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong and as long as I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, but it is still in the back of my mind. So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead? Thanks
On one hand, it all happens so fast, you don't usually have time to think about what you're doing. On the other hand, the more you know what you *should* do, the more likely you'll actually do it when the time comes...
Falling on lead is a very natural thing, I've noticed that I tend to innately know what to do when I fall. It's like falling down the stairs, or tripping on an uneven bit in the sidewalk, your body knows how to compensate, especially if you have any coordination at all. The biggest things to know about are the position of the rope; it shouldn't be behind your leg (as already mentioned), and don't grab at the rope (also mentioned). If you are grabbing the rope, then your hands aren't free to help guide your fall or stop your face from hitting the rock when you abruptly stop. Make sure your feet contact first, but avoid twisting your ankle if you can. Also on this, beware of how you contact, I tensed up on a very short lead fall once (it was seriously less than 10 feet) and hit the wall right foot first. I sprained my back and couldn't walk for a few days. Very painful. Thus, when you're falling, don't tense up, allow your body to absorb the impact in a fluid and natural manner. make sure your knees aren't locked when you hit the wall, or you'll bust something (Knee, ankle, back, hip, etc.). Some people recommend practice falls, but I don't really know that that's necessary. If you ever fall on TR, then you already know what it feels like to fall. Granted, lead falls are much more exhilarating, but TR falls are pretty much the same thing on a smaller scale; gravity at work on your body.
From reading your original post, it seems like your actual question was not about falling technique, but rather about the integrity of the gear holding said fall. The gear is plenty strong, if used correctly. If you're climbing over trad gear, then it's only as strong as you make it. If it's bolts, then there seems to be more confidence in new leaders to trust bolts over cams/nuts. Whatever. It should hold if it's placed correctly. Make sure your belayer knows what they're doing and you should be fine. watch for ledges and such, keep your cool, don't panic (but if you do panic, scream real loud, it's entertaining for other climbers to hear a new leader taking a lead fall and screaming about it...) and above all, get back on the climb unless you're hurt. Don't let your first fall back you off a climb if the fall was clean. Finish the route. You'll be glad you did.
hosh.
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majid_sabet
Jun 10, 2007, 10:23 PM
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ccourtney_99 wrote: Im a new climber I have only done some top roping I would like to soon start to try and lead I cringe at the thought of falling on lead Im a pretty heavy guy I can think of is that the equipment is more likely to fail if I fall. I know the equipment is super strong I use the gear properly then there should be no problem, So I guess my question is, is there proper technique for falling on lead? Thanks
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 10, 2007, 10:30 PM)
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coastal_climber
Jun 10, 2007, 11:04 PM
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Bend your knees as you come into contact with the rock/wall to avoid hurting your ankles.
Falling:
Take one fall slightly below the bolt.
Take one fall at the bolt
Take one fall above the bolt.
If you want to keep practicing falling, do it above the anchor if possible, then you will get used to not being at the bolt. Remember to give your rope a rest, and the QD you were falling on. Have a fun climb
>Cam
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overlord
Jun 10, 2007, 11:07 PM
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depends on what type of climbing you do...
if its sport... fall away. bolts should hold you esily (unless theyre manky offcourse)
if its trad... learn to trust your gear. the gear itself is stron enough, but make sure the placement is good.
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majid_sabet
Jun 10, 2007, 11:10 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: Bend your knees as you come into contact with the rock/wall to avoid hurting your ankles. Falling: Take one fall slightly below the bolt. Take one fall at the bolt Take one fall above the bolt. If you want to keep practicing falling, do it above the anchor if possible, then you will get used to not being at the bolt. Remember to give your rope a rest, and the QD you were falling on. Have a fun climb >Cam
see images below
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 10, 2007, 11:14 PM)
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skidawg
Jun 10, 2007, 11:22 PM
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Woah!!!...what the hell happened to that biner...please explain so I can rest easy tonight.
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alex234
Jun 10, 2007, 11:54 PM
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geez thats a hella fall
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hosh
Jun 11, 2007, 12:15 AM
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If the rope broke during that fall, did the climber die? I can understand surviving a broken biner, but a snapped rope? The rope is non-redundant.
Deck=dead.
hosh.
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space_man
Jun 11, 2007, 12:56 AM
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The rope attached to the climber is a dark shade, red or maybe black. The shredded rope at the bottom is white. I'm calling BS. Helluva fall, bad troll.
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Tuwie
Jun 11, 2007, 1:11 AM
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What does this have to do with his question?
The fall in the Picture was on a runout and really has nothing to do with this.
Or is this just your attempt to scare someone?
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macblaze
Jun 11, 2007, 1:13 AM
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I've tolerated you majid, up to this point, but christ man, you are a MORON. Get the hell out of the beginners forum and STAY OUT!
Personally I would say if you have issues with trust, start in the gym. Get used to trusting the system and you can worry about manky gear later. On the routes you are likely to be climbing here in Alberta it's not likely you'll run into anything too bad...you can thank TABVAR for that mostly.
My biggest problem with outside was always that the lower rated routes (5.5-5.9) never offered much clean air for a fall. It was either slabby or had lots of ledges and edges. I fainlly got my first lead fall over with a couple of weekends ago on an 11b that whipped my ass repeatedly but I got the first 3 bolts first and the falling was almost pleasant.
Relax...think cat and trust the system. Witha burly new rope and new gear, a hardware failure is way unlikely, no matter what your size.
B
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el_layclimber
Jun 11, 2007, 1:31 AM
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Yeah, usually I am sympathetic to Majid, but that post is like a psychology experiment gone bad.
I'll show you some pictures, half of which have nothing to do with each other, to test if your cognitive desire for narrative puts them together as: 1. climber takes huge whipper, 2. climber snaps biner, 3. climber severs rope.
Some fat bastards have come and gone in the climbing world - ever seen a picture of Don Whillans? The gear will hold, you just have to learn to trust it. If you know what you are doing, you have the power to stay as safe as you feel necessary.
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ja1484
Jun 11, 2007, 1:34 AM
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Regarding Majid's Photos above:
The fall is a picture of a staged fall done for a movie some whiles back (the 70s?) There was a long discussion about it over at Supertopo, including the person in charge of rigging.
The picture of the broke Doval is from an accident that happened last year. The guy got unlucky, and his Doval which was on a cam sling, got caught in a crack, forced open and crossloaded as he fell. If I recall, the climber was ok despite the accident.
The black/white sliced rope is from some other completely unrelated incident, I can't remember exactly what right now.
Just ignore Majid. He's damned useless.
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skidawg
Jun 11, 2007, 1:42 AM
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Thanks guys...I think I'll get some sleep tonight then  I knew those pictures weren't all related and think whoever posted them is a douchbag, especially on such an important question in the beginners forum...despite the amount of time I've been climbing, I've never really taken any big lead falls yet, so the serious posts were really helpful...I appreciate it.
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coastal_climber
Jun 11, 2007, 2:05 AM
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Two ropes?
>Cam
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ja1484
Jun 11, 2007, 2:25 AM
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Never heard of halfs or twins I take it?
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coastal_climber
Jun 11, 2007, 2:29 AM
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I have, and since the pictures are bs, and there isn't separate pro, I was wondering...
>Cam
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climb_eng
Jun 11, 2007, 3:59 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: I have, and since the pictures are bs, and there isn't separate pro, I was wondering... >Cam
Twin ropes, it's mostly a european thing.
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majid_sabet
Jun 11, 2007, 4:13 AM
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From OP's statement
In reply to: I know the equipment is super strong
I was only trying to show related photos to educate OP that climbing gears like any other hardware do fail and if they are going to fail; most likely it would during a major fall.
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