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billcoe_
Jun 22, 2007, 6:49 PM
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Once you get it - nothing cures Poison Oak that I'm aware of.
But- I just went out and got the 2nd worst case I've a ever gotten in my life. The worst was @30' away from this exact same spot almost 25 years ago.
Last time it was at a brand new climbing area. Hot day. Found a line and ran up it (doing a FA). Tied off a tree on top and plopped my ass down to belay my friend, Jim Opdycke, up. I'm on top sweating and swatting butt-loads of mosquitos that are nailing my arms and next), and Jim is @ half way up when I look around and to my horror, realize that I am sitting right in/on top of a patch of Poison Oak.
It was bad. Real bad.
25 years later we are back at it, Jim and I, no more than @30' or so from the first disaster. Jim showed up a couple of days in advance after spotting a line that had not been done, and pulled the Poison Oak out - with his bare hands, on the top out of the area we will be topping out on.
He is not allergic at all. -
We do the new line. The top has dirt everywhere which will be raining down onto the route for years unless it's cleaned up.
-So-
I show up a couple of says later to shovel and rake the dirt off of the top. As I'm shoveling, I occasionally see an odd root or 2 and yank on it. This is a heavilly forested area and there are fir trees everywhere, so roots are not unusual.
I am wearing long pants and 2 long sleeve shirts. There is no visible Poison Oak in this spot. None.
The shit goes right through the pants and shirt (I had peeled one of the shirts off as I warmed up working) and it's bad...real bad. It's on both legs, both hands-especially the webs between my fingers, genitals, chest, stomach, both eyes, in fact my left eye is near swollen shut....I'm 2 min from going to the doctor when friend at work says to try this:
When the scratching is coming on, pour a hot bath (DO NOT take a hot shower or bath right after you come home from working in Oak), as hot as you can stand. Dump in @ 1/4 of a box of baking soda, and lay in it for a while. If you have any hot spots, put baking soda right on it and rub it in with the hot water.
It worked. 95% of the scratching went away. I was almost able to sleep all night.
You have to repeat it periodically or the itiching comes back.
I have tried most of the things invented for Oak. At the end of the day, I had learned that the best thing to do was just not scratch it. Tryed:
Calamine
Benydryll
Cortizon cream (which sort of works)
French Green Clay plus
Tecnu
But this is the only thing that has worked for the scratching, for me. Baking Soda. Who knew?
Though I'd share my newfound good fortune of learning this with others who are allergic.
BTW, as a kid, I use to run through this stuff all day long with impunity and immunity. Somewhere it just went bad.
Do any of you have any "cures" or helpful ideas to share?
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wonderwoman
Jun 22, 2007, 6:52 PM
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I'll try this for sure next time I get it - and I WILL get it this year again I'm sure!
I usually take a jump in the ocean and that seems to dry things up for me. The ocean here is so cold, though!
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shockabuku
Jun 22, 2007, 6:56 PM
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Jewel weed (also called Silver leaf or something like that) works for poison ivy, particularly if you get it on relatively early, just crumple up some leaves and rub it on. Bleach seems to help dry out the pustules as well. Pour it on and let it dry.
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granite_grrl
Jun 22, 2007, 7:00 PM
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I've never had either (knock on wood). I've been climbing the last couple weekends with the same girl. Last weekend she shows up with her leg covered with poison ivy. No one the weekend before saw a sprig of it, but she must have found a lovey patch.
Anyway, her blisters are huge. She was saying what made them feel the best was to use a hair dryer on them.
Can't say how well it works, but I guess that's how she kept sane.
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joeforte
Jun 22, 2007, 7:07 PM
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Jewel Weed is also what I always use. Here in Pennsylvania, anywhere you find poison Ivy growing, you'll find Jewel weed not far away. One of natures' finest "coincidences". It also works for mosquito bites and for soothing sunburn too. It's very similar feeling to Aloe, but not greesy which is nice for climbing.
This page has some info on Jewelweed about halfway down: http://ncnatural.com/wildflwr/obnxious.html
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summerprophet
Jun 22, 2007, 7:13 PM
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PLEASE NOTE:
THE FOLLOWING ADVICE IS BY EXPERIENCE ONLY. I AM NOT A DOCTOR NOR AN IMMUNOLOGIST. JT512 AND MEDICUS ARE QUICK TO POINT OUT BELOW THAT I AM FULL OF SHIT. REGARDLESS, I WILL KEEP THIS POST UP AS IT REMAINS AS VALUBLE INFOMATION
I am a land surveyor by trade and have quite literally spent weeks hacking through 12' tall poison oak. I (and my helper) have suffered miserably and have learned from our mistakes.
Here is some knowleedge learned from our suffering.
1. Nobody is more allergic or less alergic. Poison Oak is a poisonous oil that literally attacks your immune system. The first time you are exposed you will show of feel nothing, however your body is working on building up antibodies to this poison.
Continued or further exposure results in further damage to your immune system causing greater outbreaks than previously.
Additional immune system weaknesses (Aids, Herpes, Mono) would add to the grief (or kill you).
2. The oil is absorbed by the body through the skin the best way to prevent this from happening is to cover the skin or prevent your pores from opening. Cold weather (not sweating) and clothing would help with this, although the oil will absorb into the clothing and will rub off on whatever the clothing rubs against. If you can find anti-persperent that cantains aluminum it prevents your pores from opening, however, I think that the FDA has begun cracking down on this stuff (also a toxin).
Ice cold showers immediatly after exposure would wash off the oil (as would jumping in a creek) but be aware that the oil will remain on the surface of the water, so dive, scrub and surface elsewhere. Warm baths are a punishment suitable for Nazis.
3. The rash that develops is not actually the Poison Oak. The first few times you get it the area of contact may actually look like a scar, but after that your body is actually covered in a rash from your body overproducing the antibodies. Basically you have hives.
4. The Oil stains your clothing with greenish black dye. I wear white cotton climbing pants while in the stuff. It shows up easier and all the old dye marks remind me to be on the lookout.
5. There are 4 different types in California, so don't get careless when you find yourself in different looking scrub oak
"Nah, we are fine, this stuff has berries, can't be poison oak" (led to two hospital trips and three weeks of suffering, including enough sores on my face that I looked like a meth addict)
6.And Lastly. DO NOT BURN POISON OAK. The smoke contains the oil and willl be inhaled by your lungs, placing you at risk of pulminary failure.
(Thankfully a lesson learned by others, Not me.)
(This post was edited by summerprophet on Jun 22, 2007, 9:28 PM)
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j_ung
Jun 22, 2007, 7:14 PM
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I have a little PI right now and I'm rocking the don't scratch method. It's working like a charm, but I'm also only a little allergic to it.
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ericbeyeler
Jun 22, 2007, 7:15 PM
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The hot water trick works on any kind of itch. I guess it just temporarily overloads your nerves or something.
But to get rid of the poison --- Zanfel. It's the only stuff I've tried that actually works.
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jt512
Jun 22, 2007, 7:31 PM
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summerprophet wrote: I am a land surveyor by trade and have quite literally spent weeks hacking through 12' tall poison oak. I (and my helper) have suffered miserably and have learned from our mistakes. Here is some knowleedge learned from our suffering. 1. Nobody is more allergic or less alergic. Poison Oak is a poisonous oil that literally attacks your immune system.
Wrong, and wrong. There is considerable variation in sensitivity among individuals, and poison oak does not attack your immune system. It's the other way around: your immune system attacks the poison oak toxin.
Jay
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112
Jun 22, 2007, 7:38 PM
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Bill,
The amount you have is way more than I have ever had. I don't think this would apply to such a large surface area, but what I learned from a friend who doesn't climb, but he does spend a lot of time in the woods.
Alcohol and cotton balls. Use new cotton balls often. Rub until it no longer feels good, then your done. It gets rid of the sh*t in 3 days - Totally gone.
I've spent weeks fighting the sh*t with over the counter 'medication'. The alcohol and cotton balls work wonders for me. Best thing I have found. It feels soooo good too.
-Ken
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duckbuster_13
Jun 22, 2007, 7:54 PM
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if you live in an area that happens to have an amish or menenite (sp?) population, buy some of their soap and wash with it immediately after exposure and again the rest of the day. if you get some itching the next day, wash again and you're probably good after that.
Why?
Most soap that you find in stores does not have the same ingredients as the home made stuff. It's usually more mild and dermatologically sensitive.
The home made stuff contains a lot of lye, which is a strong alkaline and seems to have a hand in somehow altering the oil from poison ivy. While theoretically any soap with a high lye content should work.... we actually purchased some that is specifically designed to treat/prevent outbreaks of poison ivy/oak and even get rid of chiggers. (again, purchased from the local amish folks) I'm honestly not sure what the difference is from normal home-made soap, but it noticeably tries out your skin... even your hands and DEFINITELY prevents outbreaks from occurring.
Case Study:
last year and the year before, it was required that i go to the emergency room once, and on at least 4 other separate occasions receive a corticosteroid injection/prescription to prevent parts of my body from swelling and aching.
This year, we acquired some of this soap.
on one occassion, we were scouting a new climbing spot that has very little traffic and since it was an impromptu trip, i had on only shorts and low cut hiking shoes. There were several areas at the base of the cliff where it was unavoidable to walk through PI. I tried stepping ON it mostly, but saw/felt leaves brushing on my legs.
I went home and washed with the soap. not even a tingle the next day. never got an itch.
on another occasion in another spot, I had leaves brush my arms several times and even stepped on a plant while walking barefoot after taking off my climbing shoes. Went home and washed with the soap.
The itching started anyway the next day... i thought for sure I was screwed.... i washed again. within an hour the itching stopped and never came back.
Incidentally, my buddy that was with me went home and washed with normal soap... he's not as allergic as I am so he doesn't invest in "special" soap... but he got at least a little bit both times... so i guess that makes him the "control" of our inadvertent experiment.
(This post was edited by duckbuster_13 on Jun 22, 2007, 7:57 PM)
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fitzontherocks
Jun 22, 2007, 8:08 PM
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I just started itching.
And I'm just sitting here in my office.
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medicus
Jun 22, 2007, 8:11 PM
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jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: I am a land surveyor by trade and have quite literally spent weeks hacking through 12' tall poison oak. I (and my helper) have suffered miserably and have learned from our mistakes. Here is some knowleedge learned from our suffering. 1. Nobody is more allergic or less alergic. Poison Oak is a poisonous oil that literally attacks your immune system. Wrong, and wrong. There is considerable variation in sensitivity among individuals, and poison oak does not attack your immune system. It's the other way around: your immune system attacks the poison oak toxin. Jay
You beat me to that one.
Summerprophet, will you please reference something regarding one of earth's most abundant elements being an FDA regulated toxin.
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tigerlilly
Jun 22, 2007, 8:17 PM
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ericbeyeler wrote: The hot water trick works on any kind of itch. I guess it just temporarily overloads your nerves or something. But to get rid of the poison --- Zanfel. It's the only stuff I've tried that actually works.
Zanfel works, and my CA mountain biking buddies swear by it, but it's ridiculously expensive. I bought Ivy Dry, which has the same ingredient list, for a fraction of the cost. A couple days of scrubbing with Ivy Dry with this and the rash is gone for me. Usually, it takes a couple weeks, or more, to go away. In the past, I've had to go as far as steroid shots.
Technu works best if you know you've been exposed and can wash soon after. Label says 20 minutes is best, though it has helped me even hours later. Once the rash breaks out, I've not gotten any relieve from it.
Kathy
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vector
Jun 22, 2007, 8:20 PM
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ericbeyeler wrote: But to get rid of the poison --- Zanfel. It's the only stuff I've tried that actually works.
I second this recommendation. The stuff is very expensive, though. CVS has a store brand version that is half the cost (still $20 for 1.5 oz is pretty steep).
As with most treatments, the sooner applied after exposure, the better.
Interestingly, on of the active ingredients is nonoxynol-9--a spermicide.
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shimanilami
Jun 22, 2007, 8:39 PM
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When I was a kid, I had a standing prescription for cortizone cream at the local pharmacy. I didn't even need my parents to come along. When I showed up, they'd just shake their heads and ask me how much I needed. I was also hospitalized two times for it. At some point in my teens, I learned my lesson. Needless to say, I am experienced.
Obviously, the best thing is to avoid it. Learn how to recognize its leaves, stems, berries, flowers and roots. And just stay clear. Otherwise ...
I've never found that wearing long pants/shirts worked all that well. Once you start sweating, the oil goes everywhere. I suspect that this is the reason you have it all over your body. The oil didn't go through your clothes, at least not until you started sweating. Rather, you got it on one small part and your sweat carried it all around.
The best method I've found to avoid the rash is to simply rinse yourself off with water when you know you've touched it. You can dilute the oil away to the point that it will have no effect, but you have to do this almost immediately, before it can get into your pores. If you're mountain biking or running, this means immediately stopping and dumping your water bottles on the places that were exposed, using your hands to rinse away the oil. If you're clearing brush, I suggest keeping gallons of water available for the job. Or locate a stream nearby. (In a pinch, I've used dirt off the trail and it worked just fine.)
Tech-nu = Tech-bullshit.
Once you've got it, you're screwed. Baking soda works. I've also resorted to alcohol and/or bleach; the pain can be preferable to the itching. And it dries it out more quickly.
Finally, in my experience, smoking pot is a good idea, too. (It doesn't do anything for the poison oak, but getting high always seems like a good idea to me.)
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summerprophet
Jun 22, 2007, 8:50 PM
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jt512 wrote: Wrong, and wrong. There is considerable variation in sensitivity among individuals, and poison oak does not attack your immune system. It's the other way around: your immune system attacks the poison oak toxin. Jay
While you are chasing technical correctness, I am purely using this as plain word language to demonstrate the situation going on in your body.
The fact remains the same. Nobody is immune. While the effects may be mininal, do not think that you are "Blessed" and can continue wandering around in Poison Oak indefinately.
Depending on the amount and frequency of exposure the results are going to be more and more drastic due to the increasing number of antibodies in your system.
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jt512
Jun 22, 2007, 8:58 PM
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summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: Wrong, and wrong. There is considerable variation in sensitivity among individuals, and poison oak does not attack your immune system. It's the other way around: your immune system attacks the poison oak toxin. Jay While you are chasing technical correctness, I am purely using this as plain word language to demonstrate the situation going on in your body.
This seems to be the new bullshit around here. When found to be completely wrong, claim that the correction is just a technicality. Agents (like HIV) that attack the immune system, weaken it. Poison oak has no such effect.
In reply to: The fact remains the same. Nobody is immune.
And this is wrong, too, according to the majority of reputable sources I've seen, which estimate that about 15% of the population is immune.
Jay
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medicus
Jun 22, 2007, 8:59 PM
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summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: Wrong, and wrong. There is considerable variation in sensitivity among individuals, and poison oak does not attack your immune system. It's the other way around: your immune system attacks the poison oak toxin. Jay While you are chasing technical correctness, I am purely wrong about the situation going on in your body.
*Edited to correct.
That is much more than just a technicality. There is a HUGE difference between something attacking your immune system and your immune system attacking a foreign substance.
(This post was edited by medicus on Jun 22, 2007, 9:03 PM)
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hemp22
Jun 22, 2007, 9:25 PM
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Hey Bill - well, at least you found all that oak before the rest of us - now you'll just have to let me know where you were, so i'll know to never go there 
seriously though - i feel your pain, as i've had it really bad in the past, thanks to the abundance of it around here. There are some areas at the local crags where I have learned the hard way to not visit, or certain climbs where I know to never top out.
the main thing I've had the most success with is really prevention - i always wear closed shoes & long pants to the portland-area crags, no matter how hot it is. and then i always make sure to shower as soon as I get home. If I suspect or know that I've been in some, I'll use Tecnu first, but usually a good cold soapy shower manages to remove the oil before I break out. (don't do a hot shower, since the heat will open up your pores, and could make it worse)
As for relief once you get it, i have used Zanfel in the past with some success - it does seem to help it clear up a little more quickly, but it's probably not worth the $$.
The best instant relief I get is from taking a really hot shower. This works the same as the hair-dryer remedy that someone else mentioned. the heat causes your system to increase the release rate of histamines. The histamines are what cause the itching sensation so it will really itch/hurt at first, but after you've kept your rash under the hot water/air for a long time, you'll have depleted the histamines in that area for a while - and the itching will die down, usually for 2-4 hours before they build back up.
of course, if you have it on your face/genitals, or covering a large percentage of your body, then the only recommendation is really that you get yourself to the doctor and get a serious prescription for some Prednisone ASAP.
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medicus
Jun 22, 2007, 9:26 PM
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Thanks.
I have heard from a lot of people "Aluminum causes ________" fill the blank in with just about any disease that isn't fully understood... so I wasn't sure if you were referencing that or if the FDA actually had regulated it as a specific toxin of some kind. When I tried to search, I just found more articles on similar things, but none that actually stated the FDA was going to regulate it due to a toxicity of some kind. Several said the FDA required dantiperspirants to block at least 20% of sweat, but that was the only regulation I was able to find.
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carabiner96
Jun 24, 2007, 4:50 AM
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I was under the impression from my professors that poisons like ivy and oak work on a bell curve, with your reactions getting worse with the more exposures you have, eventually getting more mild once you've gotten over the hump.
The real difference is that everyones bells are shaped differently; some are so shallow and long that even with repeated exposures it woudl take an entire lifetime to get a severe reaction; others, like me, have a quick one, where I was wicked allergic as a kid but could now make soap out of it and be fine (kidding...)
Same with bee stings, etc...
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reno
Jun 24, 2007, 7:47 AM
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carabiner96 wrote: I was under the impression from my professors that poisons like ivy and oak work on a bell curve, with your reactions getting worse with the more exposures you have, eventually getting more mild once you've gotten over the hump.
I've not heard the bell curve theory, but I do agree with the "worse over time" concept. As is true with all allergens, really: Nobody is allergic (and by allergic, I mean a full, out-and-out reaction, hives, bronchospam, and all that reaction) the first time they're exposed.
It's a cumulative effect.
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crazy_fingers84
Jun 24, 2007, 3:05 PM
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Is there really a difference between Poison Ivy and Poison Oak, or is just different names for the same plant?
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