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majid_sabet
Jul 17, 2007, 10:13 PM
Post #151 of 159
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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stymingersfink wrote: curator wrote: 2. the rope was moving very quickly through the device. (it was, as evidenced by the injuries to the climber) The device would have locked, there is no maybe about it. unless, of course, the device were accidentally threaded backward. OOPS!  MY BAD! 
And few months back, a leader while rapping via his GG had it backward and worse than that, the end of top rop was attached to belayer at the base who had his own GG rigged backward.
Leader fell some 40+ feet to base
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limeydave
Jul 17, 2007, 10:43 PM
Post #152 of 159
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Registered: Nov 23, 2006
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stymingersfink wrote: johanna2430 wrote: I personally don't know even one single advanced climber, trad or sport, that uses a Gri Gri for their main belaying device. Seems to be the only device I carry lately, unless I'm climbing ice, i guess. You may work at the best store in the best climbing area in the best state in the best nation in the world... but that doesn't mean it doesn't all boil down to a belayer's experience levels.
I know some very experienced folks (strong too) that have moved to GriGri's from ATC's for single pitch sport - ease of use and smaller belayer not being worried about slamming into the rock and losing the brakehand grip - were cited as reasons.
Whatever you're most comfortable with is probably the best option 99/100 IMHO.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 12:24 AM
Post #153 of 159
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limeydave wrote: stymingersfink wrote: johanna2430 wrote: I personally don't know even one single advanced climber, trad or sport, that uses a Gri Gri for their main belaying device. Seems to be the only device I carry lately, unless I'm climbing ice, i guess. You may work at the best store in the best climbing area in the best state in the best nation in the world... but that doesn't mean it doesn't all boil down to a belayer's experience levels. I know some very experienced folks (strong too) that have moved to GriGri's from ATC's for single pitch sport - ease of use and smaller belayer not being worried about slamming into the rock and losing the brakehand grip - were cited as reasons. Whatever you're most comfortable with is probably the best option 99/100 IMHO.
There is no such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device. if you do not trigger the locking mechanism on a typical so called " Autolocking belay devices" with your belay hand ,your rope will continues to pass thru it as easy as letting your hands go off a typical tube type belay device.
People are choosing the Autolocking belay devices for the wrong reasons and that has been proven with accidents for more 100 times.
If there was such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device then WTF belayer are doing, standing like a nail watching their leader climb all day long ?
Why not just tie the AUTOLOCKING belay device to BFT and let it do its ATUO FALL STOP ?
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limeydave
Jul 18, 2007, 12:39 AM
Post #154 of 159
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Registered: Nov 23, 2006
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majid_sabet wrote: limeydave wrote: stymingersfink wrote: johanna2430 wrote: I personally don't know even one single advanced climber, trad or sport, that uses a Gri Gri for their main belaying device. Seems to be the only device I carry lately, unless I'm climbing ice, i guess. You may work at the best store in the best climbing area in the best state in the best nation in the world... but that doesn't mean it doesn't all boil down to a belayer's experience levels. I know some very experienced folks (strong too) that have moved to GriGri's from ATC's for single pitch sport - ease of use and smaller belayer not being worried about slamming into the rock and losing the brakehand grip - were cited as reasons. Whatever you're most comfortable with is probably the best option 99/100 IMHO. There is no such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device. if you do not trigger the locking mechanism on a typical so called " Autolocking belay devices" with your belay hand ,your rope will continues to pass thru it as easy as letting your hands go off a typical tube type belay device. People are choosing the Autolocking belay devices for the wrong reasons and that has been proven with accidents for more 100 times. If there was such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device then WTF belayer are doing, standing like a nail watching their leader climb all day long ? Why not just tie the AUTOLOCKING belay device to BFT and let it do its ATUO FALL STOP ?
What device do you use when swapping leads with your climbing partner?
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medicus
Jul 18, 2007, 12:43 AM
Post #155 of 159
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Registered: Dec 2, 2006
Posts: 727
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majid_sabet wrote: limeydave wrote: stymingersfink wrote: johanna2430 wrote: I personally don't know even one single advanced climber, trad or sport, that uses a Gri Gri for their main belaying device. Seems to be the only device I carry lately, unless I'm climbing ice, i guess. You may work at the best store in the best climbing area in the best state in the best nation in the world... but that doesn't mean it doesn't all boil down to a belayer's experience levels. I know some very experienced folks (strong too) that have moved to GriGri's from ATC's for single pitch sport - ease of use and smaller belayer not being worried about slamming into the rock and losing the brakehand grip - were cited as reasons. Whatever you're most comfortable with is probably the best option 99/100 IMHO. There is no such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device. if you do not trigger the locking mechanism on a typical so called " Autolocking belay devices" with your belay hand ,your rope will continues to pass thru it as easy as letting your hands go off a typical tube type belay device. People are choosing the Autolocking belay devices for the wrong reasons and that has been proven with accidents for more 100 times. If there was such thing as AUTOLOCKING belay device then WTF belayer are doing, standing like a nail watching their leader climb all day long ? Why not just tie the AUTOLOCKING belay device to BFT and let it do its ATUO FALL STOP ?
majid_sabet wrote: My point is that you guys are too fu8ing serious and sensitive to every little things and you need to take it easy on a lot of issues and do not take things too personal. |
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 3:09 PM
Post #156 of 159
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Registered: Mar 12, 2003
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In reply to: People are choosing the Autolocking belay devices for the wrong reasons and that has been proven with accidents for more 100 times.
Majid please show the stats on how many of those accidents were the locking mechanism did not engage in a fall (TR or lead) when the gri gri was threaded correctly.
The most common thing I see is during lowering when people crank the handle too hard and the person drops and the belayer doesn't know enough to let go of the handle.
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curator
Jul 18, 2007, 11:18 PM
Post #157 of 159
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Registered: Sep 29, 2005
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Just thought I'd throw out a little follow up....Beauty mountain today a boyscout fell and decked on toprope. Minor injuries but the trip was over and the whole group hiked out. Elissa saw the student belayer (with backup belayer), not paying attention. The climber fell somewhere between slip, slap, slide, and even with a backup, who also wasn't paying attention, decked. Improper training:yes, improper belay technique:yes, should the boyscouts be shut down as a sketchy pedophilic organization:yes. Would this accident have been prevented with a gri gri: yes. And of course Majid, we're talking about a correctly loaded grigri. I can load an atc wrong too. And to all you folks that believe grigri's don't lock up in falls: I hope you drive around all day wondering if you're seat belt will lock up in an accident.
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overlord
Jul 19, 2007, 8:32 AM
Post #158 of 159
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
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curator wrote: Just thought I'd throw out a little follow up....Beauty mountain today a boyscout fell and decked on toprope. Minor injuries but the trip was over and the whole group hiked out. Elissa saw the student belayer (with backup belayer), not paying attention. The climber fell somewhere between slip, slap, slide, and even with a backup, who also wasn't paying attention, decked. Improper training:yes, improper belay technique:yes, should the boyscouts be shut down as a sketchy pedophilic organization:yes. Would this accident have been prevented with a gri gri: yes. And of course Majid, we're talking about a correctly loaded grigri. I can load an atc wrong too. And to all you folks that believe grigri's don't lock up in falls: I hope you drive around all day wondering if you're seat belt will lock up in an accident.
grigris sometimes dont lock up. i know, i experienced it first hand. its usually user error...
and, if this was a 'human factor' accident, what makes you think that a grigri wouldve saved the day?
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