|
majid_sabet
Jul 24, 2007, 4:26 AM
Post #1 of 42
(5333 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
Last weekend in Yosemite , I went to meet my old buddy
the SHORT CIRCUIT. This SOB is a meat lover and without tape, you may get some bloody hand, however, someone else before me had his dry blood stamped all over the face and inside the crack.
So , since our old blood marks are all over these rocks and we keep adding more blood , is this some thing we should worry about ( medical concern) ? I mean I know it is going to be a dry blood mark but I was just wondering.
|
|
|
|
|
el_layclimber
Jul 24, 2007, 5:20 AM
Post #2 of 42
(5303 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 550
|
No, as long as it is dried out. I don't think that any significantly dangerous pathogen in there could live any longer than it would take for it to dry.
Gives the climb some character.
|
|
|
|
|
reverse_dyno
Jul 24, 2007, 7:36 AM
Post #3 of 42
(5264 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 8, 2005
Posts: 69
|
The hepatitis B virus can indeed survive in dried blood for up to 7 days at 25 F, according the the below quote.
There is basically no risk of getting HIV from dried blood.
A quote from Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety: http://www.ccohs.ca/...ses/hepatitis_b.html
Where is the hepatitis B virus found and how is it transmitted?
Blood is the major source of the hepatitis B virus in the workplace. It can also be found in other tissues and body fluids, but in much lower concentrations. The risk of transmission varies according to the specific source
Blood
Direct contact with infected blood can transmit the hepatitis B virus through:
* punctures of the skin with blood-contaminated needles, lancets, scalpels, or other sharps
* splashes to skin bearing minute scratches, abrasions, burns, or even minor rashes
* splashes to mucous membranes in the mouth, nose, or eyes
To a lesser extent, indirect contact with blood-contaminated surfaces can also transmit the hepatitis B virus. The virus may be stable in dried blood for up to 7 days at 25°C. Hand contact with blood-contaminated surfaces such as laboratory benches, test tubes, or laboratory instruments may transfer the virus to skin or mucous membranes.
|
|
|
|
|
thomasribiere
Jul 24, 2007, 11:30 AM
Post #4 of 42
(5236 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 9306
|
How weird! I never thought of that : for me, dry blood was not dangerous. Should the hurt person write the date of accident on the rock (with letters of blood!)?... 
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jul 24, 2007, 1:54 PM
Post #5 of 42
(5171 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
majid_sabet wrote: So , since our old blood marks are all over these rocks and we keep adding more blood , is this some thing we should worry about ( medical concern) ?
Not really, no.
|
|
|
|
|
summerprophet
Jul 24, 2007, 3:44 PM
Post #6 of 42
(5081 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 764
|
Majid climbed Short Circuit ???????
That is proud man, nice work.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Jul 24, 2007, 4:33 PM
Post #7 of 42
(5023 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
summerprophet wrote: Majid climbed Short Circuit ??????? That is proud man, nice work.
I have not been climbing for few months and I barley made to top of SC the first time but then on 2ed and 3rd try I could not do it all the way and chickened out and jumped in Merced river instead .
My local friends say "if you can do SC, you can do any climb in Yos"
He is dam right about it.
|
|
|
|
|
mikitta
Jul 24, 2007, 8:29 PM
Post #8 of 42
(4953 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 301
|
First - Grats on your ascent, Majid :)
Second - If you get concerned about pathogen transmission from old blood on the rock, you can always take a squirt bottle with a 10% solution of bleach up with you. That should take care of any Hep or other viral agents that may be left behind in someone else's blood stains.
Basically, unless you are having sex or sharing needles with whoever smeared their blood up there AND they are infected, you don't have much to worry about.
Yes, the HB virus will remain viable for 7 days in a controlled environment (inside on a counter top, or on clothes, etc) But when exposed to extreme conditions, like those on the rock (wide temperature fluctuations, variations in acidity or basicity of the rock, etc), it remains unlikely you will encounter one viable Hep B virus in any of the blood stains there.
As someone else mentioned, HIV is not at all an issue. That virus is extremely fragile and does not live long on surfaces after it comes out of the body. This is not to say if your climbing partner is HIV+ you have no worries to follow them up a rock they bleed on - definitely take up your bleachy squirt bottle. However, after a maximum of about 30 minutes, the HIV virus is no longer viable unless maintained in a very controlled environment. This particular characteristic gave virologists a little difficulty when they were trying to grow it in cultures. We are lucky in this, because if it were a hardy virus like HBV, we would see far more cases of infection than we do now - and we already see far too many, IMHO.
God Bless,
mik
|
|
|
|
|
bent_gate
Jul 24, 2007, 9:01 PM
Post #9 of 42
(4917 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2620
|
Nice to hear a climbing story Majid!
Of course, even without contact with blood, you can get an infection from any type of cut. So clean it well. It heals a lot faster that way too. Common sense, and nothing that everyone doesn't already know, but it has to be added.
|
|
|
|
|
grover
Jul 26, 2007, 6:15 PM
Post #10 of 42
(4744 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 569
|
Hmmm... thought this was the title of your new climbing magazine... my bad.
I'm more worried of vomit than blood.
|
|
|
|
|
patrickm
Jul 26, 2007, 10:47 PM
Post #11 of 42
(4690 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 30
|
mikitta wrote: First - Grats on your ascent, Majid :) Second - If you get concerned about pathogen transmission from old blood on the rock, you can always take a squirt bottle with a 10% solution of bleach up with you. That should take care of any Hep or other viral agents that may be left behind in someone else's blood stains. Basically, unless you are having sex or sharing needles with whoever smeared their blood up there AND they are infected, you don't have much to worry about. Yes, the HB virus will remain viable for 7 days in a controlled environment (inside on a counter top, or on clothes, etc) But when exposed to extreme conditions, like those on the rock (wide temperature fluctuations, variations in acidity or basicity of the rock, etc), it remains unlikely you will encounter one viable Hep B virus in any of the blood stains there. As someone else mentioned, HIV is not at all an issue. That virus is extremely fragile and does not live long on surfaces after it comes out of the body. This is not to say if your climbing partner is HIV+ you have no worries to follow them up a rock they bleed on - definitely take up your bleachy squirt bottle. However, after a maximum of about 30 minutes, the HIV virus is no longer viable unless maintained in a very controlled environment. This particular characteristic gave virologists a little difficulty when they were trying to grow it in cultures. We are lucky in this, because if it were a hardy virus like HBV, we would see far more cases of infection than we do now - and we already see far too many, IMHO. God Bless, mik
Hmmm...the bleach will keep you disease free just long enough to take a fall on your newly bleached rope. I will roll the dice with the pathogens.
Patrick
|
|
|
|
|
mikitta
Jul 26, 2007, 11:44 PM
Post #12 of 42
(4670 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 301
|
Hehe, Patrick - me too! Especially since you have to leave the bleach sit for about 5 minutes for it to be effective. Can you imagine spritzing each bloody hold and telling your belayer to hold on while you let it dry? LOL
The suggestion was tongue in cheek :p I rather suspect that most people aren't going to be so anal as to do that - at least not climbers. The people that I DO know who are so anal retentive as to do that also get wigged out by just normal dirt on the sidewalk. They can barely stand being outside in their own yard, let alone such a chaotic and dirty place as a crag LOL!
God Bless,
mik
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 27, 2007, 1:35 AM
Post #13 of 42
(4623 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
grover wrote: I'm more worried of vomit than blood.
You shouldn't be.
I'd be more worried about bacteria...like staph, than virus's.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
carbonrx8
Jul 27, 2007, 2:34 AM
Post #14 of 42
(4593 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2006
Posts: 267
|
majid_sabet wrote: Rock & Blood
grover wrote: thought this was the title of your new climbing magazine...
Absolutely Brilliant!
|
|
|
|
|
drm1st
Jul 27, 2007, 2:45 AM
Post #16 of 42
(4582 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2007
Posts: 188
|
P.S. this is a pretty good question all & all.
|
|
|
|
|
grover
Jul 27, 2007, 5:22 AM
Post #17 of 42
(4548 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 569
|
flamer wrote: grover wrote: I'm more worried of vomit than blood. You shouldn't be. I'd be more worried about bacteria...like staph, than virus's. josh
It's not the bacteria i'm worried about, it's the chunks and stomach acid on my gear.
stomach acid=microfractures
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jul 27, 2007, 5:25 AM
Post #18 of 42
(4544 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
flamer wrote: You shouldn't be. I'd be more worried about bacteria...like staph, than virus's.
Depends on the specific bacteria and viruses (viruii?)
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 27, 2007, 4:58 PM
Post #19 of 42
(4462 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
Necrotising facisitis....(sp?)
josh
|
|
|
|
|
wilcox510
Jul 27, 2007, 5:14 PM
Post #20 of 42
(4445 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
Necrotizing fasciitis is not a bacteria. It is a severe infection that could be caused by many different types of bacteria.
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Jul 27, 2007, 5:17 PM
Post #21 of 42
(4441 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
When I climb at rumny there is so much slime, grime and blood on all the holds that the first thing I do when I get back to the parking area is wash up in the river. I am also prone to have handy whipes in the van to sanitize with.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jul 27, 2007, 6:23 PM
Post #22 of 42
(4424 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
flamer wrote: Necrotising facisitis....(sp?)
OK, sure, that's one that is worse than most viruses, but the bacteria that cause Nec. Fasc. (Group A Strep, if memory serves) don't survive well outside of a human host for long. The weather conditions, direct UV light from the sun, and so forth all conspire to kill 'em.
Hep C, though.... nasty virus, that. Withstands elements quite well.
Do we have any microbiologists around that can expand on this concern? I'm sure that someone knows more about microbe virility and can help us out.
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Jul 27, 2007, 8:12 PM
Post #23 of 42
(4374 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
wilcox510 wrote: Necrotizing fasciitis is not a bacteria.
As reno said....it's strep.
Jeff...I just had a class on it. It's actually stronger outside a host than most people think. I personally know at least 4 folks who've had it. Not good!
Hep C, well most Hep, is a bigger concern primarily due to it being more previlant. Did you know that we're up to Hep G now???
Another one to be concerned with is Hantavirus. While you're probably not going to get it from another human, it is a concern for climbers. Especially in the southwest.
Hanta is spread primarily through rodents. It's airbourne and floats out of (infected)rat nests,coming from their dried fecal matter.
The reason it is a concern for climbers is that rats love to nest in cracks and crevice's. Hell there are rats living halfway up El cap!
josh
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jul 27, 2007, 8:20 PM
Post #24 of 42
(4368 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
flamer wrote: wilcox510 wrote: Necrotizing fasciitis is not a bacteria. As reno said....it's strep.
A bit of misunderstanding here, methinks:
Necrotizing Fasciitis is a condition, CAUSED by a Streptococcus bacteria.
Nec Fasc. isn't a bacteria itself. Nor do all folks with Strep A get Nec. Fasc. (Group A Strep is the same agent that causes strep throat.)
Just trying to clarify that.
In reply to: Hep C, well most Hep, is a bigger concern primarily due to it being more previlant. Did you know that we're up to Hep G now???
Yep. And we'll be past that in another year or less. Damn viral mutations..... grrrrr.
In reply to: Another one to be concerned with is Hantavirus. While you're probably not going to get it from another human, it is a concern for climbers. Especially in the southwest.
Yeah, tell me about it.
|
|
|
|
|
wilcox510
Jul 29, 2007, 4:03 AM
Post #25 of 42
(4264 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 17, 2004
Posts: 106
|
Actually, necrotizing fasciitis can be caused by a number of different bacteria.I think it is most commonly caused by group A strep, but there are a number or bugs that can cause it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
