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bigfatrock
Jul 30, 2007, 3:27 PM
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Can somebody tell me what advantage a TCU has over a Flex Cam or vice versa? I know the difference in the two units but have no idea how one might be better than the other or is it just a preference thing? I will eventually get into trad (after I take guided courses) but for now I am just curious.
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8flood8
Jul 30, 2007, 3:30 PM
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besides the obvious of 4cu vs 3cu, i think that i would feel more comfortable placing a flex cam in a horizontal placement because of the floppy stem.
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summerprophet
Jul 30, 2007, 3:37 PM
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Flex Cam - Single Cable design has more movement before the cam begins to move in the crack. Four Cams offer more stability and better holding power.
TCU- Three Cams are faster to place and can be fit into more places.
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climbinginchico
Jul 30, 2007, 9:18 PM
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summerprophet wrote: Flex Cam - Single Cable design has more movement before the cam begins to move in the crack. Four Cams offer more stability and better holding power. TCU- Three Cams are faster to place and can be fit into more places.
Faster to place? How so? And with Aliens, I'm hesitant to say that a 3CU will fit in places Aliens won't, C3's notwithstanding. Those babies fit in impossible placements.
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summerprophet
Jul 30, 2007, 9:29 PM
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The OP didn't mention aliens nor BD's, but the compison between a Metolius 3cam and a Trango 4cam.
To answer your question though:
The 3 cam units are faster to place as the process of looking at the crack is easier and imperfections to set that center cam in are easier to spot. In addition, when the crack is shallow, the 3cam can generally just be placed, where a 4cam often has to be set with the cams specifically alligned. Also, in pin scars or flares, it takes more time and effort to set a equivalent 4cam unit.
(Admittedly, I agree with you on the aliens, but am hesitant to open that can of worms on here, and it was beyond the scope of the OP's question)
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skinner
Jul 31, 2007, 5:30 AM
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8flood8 wrote: besides the obvious of 4cu vs 3cu, i think that i would feel more comfortable placing a flex cam in a horizontal placement because of the floppy stem.
I agree
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bigfatrock
Jul 31, 2007, 1:41 PM
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skinner wrote: 8flood8 wrote: besides the obvious of 4cu vs 3cu, i think that i would feel more comfortable placing a flex cam in a horizontal placement because of the floppy stem. I agree
That is one thing I was thinking about. I've seen pictures of the Metolius cams placed in horizontal positions and it looks really stressed. Thanks for the replies. I will be sure to ask plenty of more questions to whomever I end up getting as a guide. It will most likely be Texas Mountaineers.
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climbinwv
Jul 31, 2007, 1:51 PM
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mmmmmmm.........Trango!!!!!!!
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skinner
Jul 31, 2007, 11:09 PM
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bigfatrock wrote: skinner wrote: 8flood8 wrote: besides the obvious of 4cu vs 3cu, i think that i would feel more comfortable placing a flex cam in a horizontal placement because of the floppy stem. I agree That is one thing I was thinking about. I've seen pictures of the Metolius cams placed in horizontal positions and it looks really stressed. Thanks for the replies. I will be sure to ask plenty of more questions to whomever I end up getting as a guide. It will most likely be Texas Mountaineers.
Stressed, describes it fairly accurately. I love my Metolius cams, love the way the place, and hold, but.. I have a few that were weighted pretty heavily while in horizontal placements, the cable ended up rather deformed. Even after straightening them, they are just never the same, the smooth action is gone I've been really impressed with the BD C3's for both vertical and horizontal placements. Personally I think you need a mix of cams. My big cams are a mix of BD Camalots and Trangos Max Cams (which btw, there is a recall] on the #1)
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zeke_sf
Jul 31, 2007, 11:14 PM
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I don't know why you'd compare these two specifically. Similar price? I can't tell you the difference other than I know I prefer single-stem cams. The one time I racked up with some friends Flex Cams, I thought they were excellent cams. You don't hear about them much, considering their more-hyped rivals though. You need to play with different types of cams because, like you say, I believe it all comes down to preference more than anything else. You need to figure out what you feel comfortable climbing above.
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shimanilami
Jul 31, 2007, 11:50 PM
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Aliens up to red, then C4's. Anything else is second rate.
By the way, did anyone notice that CCH now has a website?
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moose_droppings
Jul 31, 2007, 11:58 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Aliens up to red, then C4's. Anything else is second rate. By the way, did anyone notice that CCH now has a website?
And what might that address be?
Thanks in advance.
PS, its not www.cch.com either or a few others I've tried.
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zeke_sf
Aug 1, 2007, 12:53 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: shimanilami wrote: Aliens up to red, then C4's. Anything else is second rate. By the way, did anyone notice that CCH now has a website? And what might that address be? Thanks in advance. PS, its not www.cch.com either or a few others I've tried.
http://www.aliencamsbycch.com/
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stymingersfink
Aug 1, 2007, 5:41 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: moose_droppings wrote: shimanilami wrote: Aliens up to red, then C4's. Anything else is second rate. By the way, did anyone notice that CCH now has a website? And what might that address be? Thanks in advance. PS, its not www.cch.com either or a few others I've tried.
funny how they don't mention anything about the latest questions of their quality control surrounding their product.
In reply to: ATTENTION: A Recall has Been Issued for Specific Recently Issued Alien Cams Click Here for the Testing Report from Northwest Laboratories - 5-5-06 Click Here for the Cam Recall Press Release - 4-18-06 (PDF) Click here to download Adobe's free PDF reader. January 12, 2006 Colorado Custom Hardware (CCH) has recently completed an investigation, and extensive testing of our product to identify and isolate safety issues concerning the brazing on CCH Alien cams.The safety of our customers is our number one priority and therefore we are issuing a recall for any cam bearing the marking described below. The units with this issue are marked with a small center punch dimple (picture) at the base of the round ball where the axle goes through the cable eye. Although few failures have been reported, CCH recommends immediately discontinuing the use of any Alien cams with this mark. We are issuing a full recall of these cams. Please return them to CCH for a free replacement. You can mail your cams to: Colorado Custom Hardware Inc. ATTN: Brazing Recall 115 East Lyon Street Laramie, WY 82072 CCH has always worked to assure the absolute highest quality of every cam we produce, and we are currently working on ways to further enhance our already stringent standards of quality control. Again, I would like to reiterate that ensuring the quality and safety of all CCH products is our highest priority. Sincerely, David Waggoner President of Colorado Custom Hardware
*emphasis added
looks like they're coming up a little shy in that department since then..
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8flood8
Aug 2, 2007, 1:53 AM
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dude,
don't pay for a guide
go to http://erockonline.com
or you can pm me whenever you want to go to enchanted rock.
save your money for taking lessons... just go out with a friend if you wanna go climb.
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zeke_sf
Aug 2, 2007, 2:18 AM
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8flood8 wrote: dude, don't pay for a guide go to http://erockonline.com or you can pm me whenever you want to go to enchanted rock. save your money for taking lessons... just go out with a friend if you wanna go climb.
beep beep boop
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zeke_sf
Aug 2, 2007, 2:19 AM
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bigfatrock
Aug 2, 2007, 3:33 AM
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Thanks dude. I actually post on erockonline now and then under this same name. I only have a couple friends that trad and they are n00bs at trad so they aren't the best to learn from but not ignorant either. Thanks for the offer to meet up at erock too. I might take you up on that sometime soon.
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8flood8
Aug 2, 2007, 5:48 AM
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lol what does that mean Zeke??
anyway...
yah man, my phone number is in my profile, give me a buzz whenever you get the trad bug!
(i'm not that awesome either, but i can climb the shit out of some topropes after i aid the hard parts! hehe)
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sky7high
Aug 2, 2007, 7:12 AM
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skinner wrote: bigfatrock wrote: skinner wrote: 8flood8 wrote: besides the obvious of 4cu vs 3cu, i think that i would feel more comfortable placing a flex cam in a horizontal placement because of the floppy stem. I agree That is one thing I was thinking about. I've seen pictures of the Metolius cams placed in horizontal positions and it looks really stressed. Thanks for the replies. I will be sure to ask plenty of more questions to whomever I end up getting as a guide. It will most likely be Texas Mountaineers. Stressed, describes it fairly accurately. I love my Metolius cams, love the way the place, and hold, but.. I have a few that were weighted pretty heavily while in horizontal placements, the cable ended up rather deformed. Even after straightening them, they are just never the same, the smooth action is gone I've been really impressed with the BD C3's for both vertical and horizontal placements. Personally I think you need a mix of cams. My big cams are a mix of BD Camalots and Trangos Max Cams (which btw, there is a recall on the #1)
Actually, In the info provided with the products, a single stem cam (bd .75&2 C4) has no strength-wise advantage over a double stem cam (Metolius 00 TCU). They information says that they BOTH loose about 2KN of holding power when loaded in a horizontal crack with the stem over the edge. This is independent of other advantages or disadvantages.
That being settled, I would probably choose a TCU for smaller pieces and a Flexcam for larger pieces, but I'm not very familiar with Flexcams. I trust they're similar to BD C4's
(This post was edited by sky7high on Aug 2, 2007, 8:17 PM)
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skinner
Aug 2, 2007, 1:45 PM
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sky7high wrote: Actually, In the info provided with the products, a single stem cam (bd .75&2 C4) has no strength-wise advantage over a double stem cam (Metolius 00 TCU). They information says that they BOTH loose about 2KN of holding power when loaded in a horizontal crack with the stem over the edge. This is independent of other advantages or disadvantages.
That being settled, I would probably choose a TCU for smaller pieces and a Flexcam for larger pieces, but I'm not very familiar with Flexcams. I trust they're similar to BD C4's
That being settled?
If you actually read my post.. you'd see that I never mentioned anything about a "strength" or "holding power" difference, but was in fact referring to the way in which Metolius cables tend to "ended up rather deformed"
when "weighted pretty heavily while in horizontal placements.", and the subsequent effect on the cams action.
You also might want to read your own post..
sky7high wrote: This is independent of other advantages or disadvantages.
sky7high wrote: That being settled,..
sky7high wrote: but I'm not very familiar with Flexcams. I trust they're similar to BD C4's
Yes, they are similar.. in that they are both cams.
BTW. It's not necessary to underline your entire post when you *think* you have a point to make.
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8flood8
Aug 2, 2007, 7:47 PM
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Abraham,
these are some bad pictures... but they are examples of what skinner was talking about.
this damage was from when the cam was used as a directional for a toprope.
i appreciate your info about the loss of holding power on either brand, however it seems that the bd's are WAY more resilient -- at least in resisting this kind of damage.
**edited to remove bad pictures**
oh btw, Skinner, lighten up a bit, the kid is only 16 and trying to contribute.
(This post was edited by 8flood8 on Aug 2, 2007, 8:14 PM)
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8flood8
Aug 2, 2007, 8:13 PM
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a better picture.. sorry
**edited to fix broken link**
(This post was edited by 8flood8 on Aug 3, 2007, 2:20 AM)
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sky7high
Aug 2, 2007, 8:39 PM
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skinner wrote: sky7high wrote: Actually, In the info provided with the products, a single stem cam (bd .75&2 C4) has no strength-wise advantage over a double stem cam (Metolius 00 TCU). They information says that they BOTH loose about 2KN of holding power when loaded in a horizontal crack with the stem over the edge. This is independent of other advantages or disadvantages.
That being settled, I would probably choose a TCU for smaller pieces and a Flexcam for larger pieces, but I'm not very familiar with Flexcams. I trust they're similar to BD C4'sThat being settled? If you actually read my post.. you'd see that I never mentioned anything about a "strength" or "holding power" difference, but was in fact referring to the way in which Metolius cables tend to " ended up rather deformed" when " weighted pretty heavily while in horizontal placements.", and the subsequent effect on the cams action.
If YOU actually READ my post, you'll find out I never said anything about you being wrong. I'm pretty familiar with metolius TCU's and I know exactly what you're talking about. Same thing happens to every single wired piece I've ever seen. (think stoppers and hexes, not just cams). I just wanted to clear that out so other people out there wouldn't get confused thinking there was a difference in strength.
(just trying to help bigfatrock out)
skinner wrote: You also might want to read your own post.. sky7high wrote: This is independent of other advantages or disadvantages. ..such as shielded vs. unshielded cables being weighted over the sharp edge of a horizontal placement.
skinner wrote: sky7high wrote: That being settled,.. sky7high wrote: but I'm not very familiar with Flexcams. I trust they're similar to BD C4's Yes, they are similar.. in that they are both cams.
skinner wrote: BTW. It's not necessary to underline your entire post when you *think* you have a point to make.
(This post was edited by sky7high on Aug 2, 2007, 8:40 PM)
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zeke_sf
Aug 2, 2007, 8:46 PM
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8flood8 wrote: lol what does that mean Zeke?? anyway... yah man, my phone number is in my profile, give me a buzz whenever you get the trad bug! (i'm not that awesome either, but i can climb the shit out of some topropes after i aid the hard parts! hehe)
You got imaginary killfiled. I hope you're not offended. I was going around imaginary killfiling people after a few  s last night. I even killfiled Dingus, which is something I'll probably come to regret. The trad bug thing is directed at somebody else? I already have it amongst others....peathe out...
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