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mturner
Sep 6, 2007, 5:12 PM
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reg wrote: mturner wrote: reg wrote: mturner wrote: reg wrote: mturner wrote: reg wrote: mturner wrote: markc wrote: If I came to the crag and found your poor girlfriend sitting locked outside the car, I'd probably offer to take her with my group. We'd coach her through the 3rd class section, get her on a route or two, and offer her a lift at the end of the day. Ha! That's so much easier said then done with someone like that. nah - it's easy! and u have no idea who "someone like that" is to make that kind of judgement my friend Well right back at you, you don't have any idea to assume it would be easy. if one has a willing person that's already climbed with you in the gym, is ur "girlfriend", wants to learn more and climb outside - it doesn't take much to get them to where they want to be. hell - there almost there! it just takes ah small bit of patience and encouragement form the "boyfriend" and the family member to help them along - it COULDN'T GET ANY EASIER! my point to you was in reference to your comment about the person ("someone like that") - you don't know her, so don't stick her in some box that you've created. Point taken, but you don't know her either do you? And to say it would be easy is quite an assumption. He didn't just walk away, he waited for three groups to pass and she still wouldn't come...not exactly my idea of a "willing person." right - i don't know her - that doesn't matter either cause anyone that's gone that far - wants to succeed - it just takes a little effort on his part there you go again. Look man, you're making just as many assumptions as I am. You weren't there and to say you could have convinced her is a leap of faith. I'm not saying I could or could not have, but to assume you know this girl well enough to convince her is far fetched at best. yeah maybe so - let's drop it and go climbin!
Now you're talking! This site needs more of that! 
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bent_gate
Sep 6, 2007, 5:46 PM
Post #102 of 135
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Zionvier,
I think everyone is being too harsh here and making too many assumptions about you and your relationship without know more about it.
So tell me if this is correct. It sounds like she uses this tactic frequently to get what she wants (probably successfully). Is this true?
And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be.
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mturner
Sep 6, 2007, 6:17 PM
Post #104 of 135
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dominic7 wrote: bent_gate wrote: And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be. Ha! I'm busy today so I just skimmed the first page to where Jay pegged the GF as co-dependent, then flipped to the last post where it was confirmed. And now I feel ok skipping all the drama on the intervening pages...
But did you missed jay's jump to conclusion mat, the only good part about this thread?
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dominic7
Sep 6, 2007, 6:43 PM
Post #105 of 135
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mturner wrote: dominic7 wrote: bent_gate wrote: And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be. Ha! I'm busy today so I just skimmed the first page to where Jay pegged the GF as co-dependent, then flipped to the last post where it was confirmed. And now I feel ok skipping all the drama on the intervening pages... But did you missed jay's jump to conclusion mat, the only good part about this thread?
Well now I've gone and read it all and have the usual slightly grimey feeling I get from a typical rc.com thread. All the usual characters and sub-plots being played out again in a new context. There was the Majid baiting, the droll Dingus, the CollegeKid pwnage, the indignant females, some amatuerish yet germane photoshopping, strong bitter sub-currents of unrequited love from many posters, some attempts at seriousness from bit players roundly ignored by everyone else, a long tit-for-tat reply skirmish that squishes the original post down to 17 pixels wide and the constant drumbeat out in the jungle calling for group sex.
Sigh. I love this place.
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jt512
Sep 6, 2007, 6:46 PM
Post #106 of 135
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bent_gate wrote: Zionvier, I think everyone is being too harsh here and making too many assumptions about you and your relationship without know more about it.
No one is being too harsh or making any unwarranted assumptions. By writing his post, the OP decided exactly what information to disclose, and then explicitly asked us as to judge him. Sure, there could be undisclosed factors that, if disclosed could change our judgment, and a but sure as hell isn't our responsibility to probe for them.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 6, 2007, 6:53 PM)
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bent_gate
Sep 6, 2007, 6:54 PM
Post #107 of 135
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I don't want to hear your opinion until you can climb 5.13 
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dingus
Sep 6, 2007, 7:00 PM
Post #109 of 135
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dominic7 wrote: the droll Dingus,
I had to look it up, haha!
DMT
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reg
Sep 6, 2007, 7:03 PM
Post #110 of 135
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dominic7 wrote: mturner wrote: dominic7 wrote: bent_gate wrote: And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be. Ha! I'm busy today so I just skimmed the first page to where Jay pegged the GF as co-dependent, then flipped to the last post where it was confirmed. And now I feel ok skipping all the drama on the intervening pages... But did you missed jay's jump to conclusion mat, the only good part about this thread? Well now I've gone and read it all and have the usual slightly grimey feeling I get from a typical rc.com thread. All the usual characters and sub-plots being played out again in a new context. There was the Majid baiting, the droll Dingus, the CollegeKid pwnage, the indignant females, some amatuerish yet germane photoshopping, strong bitter sub-currents of unrequited love from many posters, some attempts at seriousness from bit players roundly ignored by everyone else, a long tit-for-tat reply skirmish that squishes the original post down to 17 pixels wide and the constant drumbeat out in the jungle calling for group sex. Sigh. I love this place.
hey mturner - that was us!
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mturner
Sep 6, 2007, 7:07 PM
Post #111 of 135
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reg wrote: dominic7 wrote: mturner wrote: dominic7 wrote: bent_gate wrote: And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be. Ha! I'm busy today so I just skimmed the first page to where Jay pegged the GF as co-dependent, then flipped to the last post where it was confirmed. And now I feel ok skipping all the drama on the intervening pages... But did you missed jay's jump to conclusion mat, the only good part about this thread? Well now I've gone and read it all and have the usual slightly grimey feeling I get from a typical rc.com thread. All the usual characters and sub-plots being played out again in a new context. There was the Majid baiting, the droll Dingus, the CollegeKid pwnage, the indignant females, some amatuerish yet germane photoshopping, strong bitter sub-currents of unrequited love from many posters, some attempts at seriousness from bit players roundly ignored by everyone else, a long tit-for-tat reply skirmish that squishes the original post down to 17 pixels wide and the constant drumbeat out in the jungle calling for group sex. Sigh. I love this place. hey mturner - that was us!
I'm so proud
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builttospill
Sep 6, 2007, 7:09 PM
Post #112 of 135
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dominic7 wrote: mturner wrote: dominic7 wrote: bent_gate wrote: And in most situations in general, she probably is good at getting her way. I think you need to expand on this more, as it seems likely that even you are underestimating how manipulative she may be. Ha! I'm busy today so I just skimmed the first page to where Jay pegged the GF as co-dependent, then flipped to the last post where it was confirmed. And now I feel ok skipping all the drama on the intervening pages... But did you missed jay's jump to conclusion mat, the only good part about this thread? Well now I've gone and read it all and have the usual slightly grimey feeling I get from a typical rc.com thread. All the usual characters and sub-plots being played out again in a new context. There was the Majid baiting, the droll Dingus, the CollegeKid pwnage, the indignant females, some amatuerish yet germane photoshopping, strong bitter sub-currents of unrequited love from many posters, some attempts at seriousness from bit players roundly ignored by everyone else, a long tit-for-tat reply skirmish that squishes the original post down to 17 pixels wide and the constant drumbeat out in the jungle calling for group sex. Sigh. I love this place.
I thought that Dingus' constant harping on the cousin was pretty good. Then came JT's jump to conclusions mat. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better.....this little gem pops up. Well done.
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builttospill
Sep 6, 2007, 7:11 PM
Post #113 of 135
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hey zion, how old are you? you can pm me if you choose, I won't post it. Just curious. How old is the girlfriend?
P.S. You ARE most definitely an ass.
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zionvier
Sep 6, 2007, 8:10 PM
Post #114 of 135
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So far I've found some posts so far hilarious. Certainly surprised at the number of posts as well.
I haven't responded in a while because I figured I'd let things roll as they were and just see the responses. But to answer a few things, I'm 26. The climbing day was already scheduled and my girlfriend (just because I used "the girlfriend" in the title was simply to make it generalized for all, because you'd probably ditch "my" girlfriend as someone said on page 2 or something like that) As for the platform from which the obstacle starts is 'large enough', but I can see an intimidation factor with it since the land slopes downhill 5 feet behind where you'd start stepping up onto rock and continues down 30 feet until a river, rough guesstimate on angle... perhaps 45 degrees? As for going back down the short section to help her, I was leading the way, so I was on top, prepared to help pull her up, her cousin was down with her showing her what to do. Would two people down with her been better than one below and one above? We didn't just give up on her and walk away, she actually was the one that walked away telling us to just go on ahead. I know woman have a tendency to say one thing and hope guys read their mind to know what "no, just go on ahead and have fun I'll be down here when you're done" really means. But she and I have agreed in the past that I won't try to read into things like that and will take things for face value of what's said.
I'm not trying to change people's minds or anything, the original post was simply to see what others thought. We apparently understand each other enough to have not had this be an issue (it's actually more of an issue on this thread than in real life). But again, it all goes back to how I presented it.
And as I've stated previously, she's told me she wants to go back to that same place. Determined to get past it the next time. The next time I'll know better and bring a hand line or secondary shorter rope that will be easier to manage (she doesn't like it if someone has to go out of their way for her... so taking out a 60m rope and gear would actually annoy her. But pulling out a 6 meter handline from a side pocket of a backpack wouldn't seem like as big of an ordeal to her).
And in response to the cousin comments... I may be an ass in some of your opinions, but even I draw the line to how big of an ass to be.
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dingus
Sep 6, 2007, 8:36 PM
Post #115 of 135
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zionvier wrote: And in response to the cousin comments... I may be an ass in some of your opinions, but even I draw the line to how big of an ass to be.
Traanslation: The cousin is ugly!
DMT
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zionvier
Sep 6, 2007, 8:44 PM
Post #116 of 135
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dingus wrote: zionvier wrote: And in response to the cousin comments... I may be an ass in some of your opinions, but even I draw the line to how big of an ass to be. Traanslation: The cousin is ugly! DMT
HAHA, see, out of all that Dingus responds to one thing. :) But like I mentioned in a previous post, the cousin is cute. Let me know if you're ever in CO, she's single too.
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bent_gate
Sep 6, 2007, 8:52 PM
Post #117 of 135
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Dude, I think your missing that she is playing you and your are underestimating how manipulative she may be.
She is not in control when you go with a group climbing, so she is able to control you by skulking back to the car.
By getting you to go back climbing with just you and her, she will have better control over the situation and you. She is controlling your access to adversaries.
I asked you if she seems to get her way all the time and you never answered. Does she?
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mikitta
Sep 6, 2007, 9:00 PM
Post #118 of 135
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I read the first page and I read the last page of this topic - figure around here that's all one needs to get a clear picture of about any topic discussed :P
Zion, on the first page, I thought you were an A#1 jerk. But with your last explanation, I can see that things weren't so cut and dried. Still, if I had been in your shoes, i would have shipped out the rope, had her cousin tie her in and put her on hip belay. It's hard for those of us NOT afraid of heights to relate to those who are. I knew one person who was scared to step go up and down stairs she was so phobic.
At least the two of you communicate and she is willing to try again, AND you have a plan in place to help her succeed.
God Bless,
mik
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zionvier
Sep 6, 2007, 9:41 PM
Post #119 of 135
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Bent_gate: no she's not a manipulative biatch and she doesn't get her way... unless it comes to food... I don't eat much (once maybe twice a day) and she has a metabolism higher than anyone else I know so she needs to constantly eat, and she's still a twig.
And I'll cut off anyone that started thinking it... no she's not bulimic.
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bent_gate
Sep 6, 2007, 10:49 PM
Post #120 of 135
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Well I read that wrong. I know someone who had a similar story where his girlfriend was like that and it sounded awfully familiar.
Well anyway, if that is the case, then you may have to start being nice to her...
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reg
Sep 7, 2007, 12:40 PM
Post #121 of 135
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hey Z - i'm sure ur tech. savvy - plz alow me this: the "handline" could be trouble unless both ends are tied off on something solid creating a "railing" so to speak or she's tied in and on belay. right? don't hand her the end of 7mil cord and say: "come on over"!
to ur gf: ya have to "get used to" the empty space you "see" in your peripheral vision - focus on the six square feet of area around you. in time it'll be easier to deal with "exposure".
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tchiker
Sep 7, 2007, 12:53 PM
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I haven't read all the replies, but I would have done the same thing that you did in that situation. It was her fault that she wouldn't scramble up some rocks that everyone else was doing.
She shouldn't be selfish and expect you to sacrifice your fun day of climbing due to her phobia.
Many of the guys replying to this thread must be codependent wimps...you did the right thing.
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zionvier
Sep 7, 2007, 2:57 PM
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Reg: yes you are correct. Handline best set up with two anchor points, not something I'd end up doing most likely. ("oh you're afraid of this section? here trust this rope behind held with these things called cams".... doubt she'd be able to trust it much :) ) I know others in the area have tried to add a hand line in other places but they get chopped within 2 weeks. I was just using it as an example of a way to help her. I'll end up just giving here a top belay if she needs it.
I'll help prepare her mentally before going this time though. I never really thought about it but I focus on just the small task at hand when climbing or scrambling. I know I tend to "forget" to look around while climbing, it must be a trait I have carried with me since the first couple times when I was still learning to trust the rope.
I appreciate all the comments from everyone though, even though some were simply calling me an ass ( | )
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mturner
Sep 7, 2007, 3:54 PM
Post #124 of 135
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zionvier wrote: it's actually more of an issue on this thread than in real life
Best part about this site
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desertwanderer81
Sep 7, 2007, 5:58 PM
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I actually really feel for the OP. (first last page read)
Your GF sounds very much like my ex who I used to climb with. Strong and very proud, but at the same time very skitish when she wasn't on rope.
The worst part was that the more attention I gave her, the more skittish she would become when scrambling.
My biggest advantage with her though was that our climbing was mostly at the Gunks, where there is always anouther way around, and I had the time to let her do what she needed to do to calm her own nerves. Where I see the major catch for you is that you were in a group (as small as it might be) and that you would totally be screwing the third wheel by favoring your GF creating tensions between the three of you. It's a Catch-22 with no right answer as you're screwed either way.
I've almost been in this situation a few times, but very much thankfully, she was able to overcome her fears. One time I had to move on a bit (just so that I wasn't standing right next to her as she did it) to give her time on her own to be able to get up.
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