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tedman
Sep 12, 2007, 6:58 PM
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So I've been climbing in a gym for the past few months, gotten proficient at lead climbing/belay. Finally decided to take it outdoors for some sport climbing. I've gone a few times with other people who did all the leading and set/cleaned the routes, but never did any myself. So I thought about it, and I cant figure out how people get their top quickdraw(s) back. You climb up, clip them all on the way up, clean everything but the top draws for TR for others, and then when you are done with the route, how do you get those down? I dont plan on going and and 'just figuring it out', at least going to get some instruction at the gym before going out, preferably just ask my buddy to show me next time we go (but who knows when that'l be). But I'm bored at work so I figured I could at least find out the theory/technique. and yes I tried searching, didnt find much that was pertinent.
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Reaganchung
Sep 12, 2007, 7:04 PM
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sport routes have fixed anchors on top that you can lower or rappell down. Fix anchors can range from a hanger with a ring or chain on it or open shuts or even carabiners. Feeding your rope through rings or chains require you to anchor in and untie. Its a simple process but is best to be shown by someone in real life. With open shuts you simple clip the rope like it was a quickdraw and get lowered off those and clean all your gear while you come down.
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Reaganchung
Sep 12, 2007, 7:04 PM
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oh yea. dont top rope through fixed anhors because it wears them out.
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boku
Sep 12, 2007, 7:08 PM
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Short answer: Ask an experienced and qualified climber to show you how. Slightly longer answer: You attach yourself safely (that is, with redundant gear) to the anchor. You rig your rope for a rappel from the anchor. When certain your rappel is rigged safely, you clean your gear from the anchor. You rappel off. On the ground you pull your rope through the anchor. As with all aspects of climbing, there are many common and uncommon ways to mess up and get injured or killed. Seek instruction, question everything, and think critically. Thanks, Bob "BoKu" K.
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coastal_climber
Sep 12, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Reaganchung wrote: oh yea. dont top rope through fixed anhors because it wears them out. And wears your rope out. >Cam
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tedman
Sep 12, 2007, 7:20 PM
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ok, so are there any other options? I know toprope puts more wear on a rope, but if other people are climbing who want to follow, any other way to do it? And as far as rapeling, do I need any other gear (rappel rings, figure 8? if I have ATCs). It seems like you could just be lowered off the top anchors without having to rappel, or is this the same deal where it wears your rope and the anchors out?
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boku
Sep 12, 2007, 7:49 PM
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tedman wrote: ...It seems like you could just be lowered off the top anchors without having to rappel... Yeah, you can do that. And at some crags with burly gear, that's the standard procedure. But it inflicts wear on a shared resource that somebody spent money on, and spent time to install. If you want to be respected as a climber, you'll respect climbing's shared resources such as rock and anchors and fixed gear. If you don't care about respect for your person or your own property, then do as you will and expect the same in return. Also, don't ever toprope or lower off of aluminum rap rings. They're light and flimsy, not designed to hold falls, and wear through very quickly.
In reply to: , or is this the same deal where it wears your rope and the anchors out? Yup, that deal exact. If you're going to toprope or lower off repeatedly, do it on your own gear.
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Reaganchung
Sep 12, 2007, 7:50 PM
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if you want to top rope just put two quickdraws opposing each other on the hangers. You can put lockers on the draws if you want. You have the option of rappelling or getting lowered in most situations. Depending on the climb i might rather rappel, like if the anchor is way over the edge and lowering will kill the rope. However, if the climb is really steep and i have to clean on the way down, it is often easier to clean by getting lowered. Rappeling with an ATC ideal. PS. Rappel rings are not rappel devices! They are used to create rap stations with webbing.
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gobennyjo
Sep 12, 2007, 9:01 PM
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You must make a sacrafice to the climbing gods in the sky and leave your two draws there, then me the booty fairy will come and make sure they are properly sacraficed
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jt512
Sep 13, 2007, 6:38 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: Reaganchung wrote: oh yea. dont top rope through fixed anhors because it wears them out. And wears your rope out. That was a stupid comment. Can you figure out why? Jay
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passedoutwookie
Sep 13, 2007, 8:37 PM
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I don't climb sport so I don't know how relevant this link is, but this FAQ has some nifty suggestions for how to set up rappel anchors for top rope with some more efficiency. I just thought it might help you to visualize... http://www.gunks.com/index.php?pageid=156&pagenum=2&smGroup=2&smID=4 I would highly recommend practicing this with an experienced friend or hire a guide. No substitute for qualified instruction
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coastal_climber
Sep 14, 2007, 2:59 AM
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jt512 wrote: coastal_climber wrote: Reaganchung wrote: oh yea. dont top rope through fixed anhors because it wears them out. And wears your rope out. That was a stupid comment. Can you figure out why? Jay No. If you feed your rope through, say, rappel hangers, the rope would wear out. They are meant for your rope to go through for rapping, but not taking falls on. >Cam
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Valarc
Sep 14, 2007, 3:32 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: No. If you feed your rope through, say, rappel hangers, the rope would wear out. They are meant for your rope to go through for rapping, but not taking falls on. >Cam I'm with jay here - what exactly is it about a rappel hanger that causes more wear on a rope than a pair of biners? I can see if there's some manky old rusty and rough chain up there, but yours is a pretty broad statement.
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joeforte
Sep 14, 2007, 3:38 AM
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Valarc wrote: coastal_climber wrote: No. If you feed your rope through, say, rappel hangers, the rope would wear out. They are meant for your rope to go through for rapping, but not taking falls on. >Cam I'm with jay here - what exactly is it about a rappel hanger that causes more wear on a rope than a pair of biners? I can see if there's some manky old rusty and rough chain up there, but yours is a pretty broad statement. Yeah, DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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catbird_seat
Sep 17, 2007, 4:33 AM
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Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used.
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glytch
Sep 17, 2007, 5:07 AM
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catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. Also significant is the fact that your rope is carrying (not quite, but close to) twice the load that it carries when you're rapping.... The combination of doubling the force on the top anchor and pulling a loaded rope through a top anchor wears the rope faster than rapping, and certainly wears the anchor more! if you lower, it really is best to lower on your own 'biners... G
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Myxomatosis
Sep 17, 2007, 5:22 AM
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tedman wrote: ok, so are there any other options? I know toprope puts more wear on a rope, but if other people are climbing who want to follow, any other way to do it? And as far as rapeling, do I need any other gear (rappel rings, figure 8? if I have ATCs). It seems like you could just be lowered off the top anchors without having to rappel, or is this the same deal where it wears your rope and the anchors out? If you have people following you it is always better to set up a proper top rope and the last person can clean the gear off. You can use two quick draws opposing each other but I'd suggest investing in four biners and some sling and set it up properly. Sometimes you need to have your t/r hanging right above you (to avoid the rope running over the rock into the biners) Two for anchours and two more put in so they are opposing for the rope (I have two steel biners, two biners big enough to fit around a chain and 5m's of sling). Takes you the same amount of time to set up. Or if there is only two people, its alot quicker to set up a top belay system and have your mate clean the gear and then lower him then reppel back down. Id get someone to teach you properly how to set up a system and then decide for yourself what is safe for "you" to climb on
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flint
Sep 17, 2007, 7:25 AM
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jt512 wrote: coastal_climber wrote: Reaganchung wrote: oh yea. dont top rope through fixed anhors because it wears them out. And wears your rope out. That was a stupid comment. Can you figure out why? Jay Waiting to here this pearl of wisdom............
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 17, 2007, 1:20 PM
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catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. And I am sure that you have the test data to back this up. If you really want to save your rope, don't climb on it. Josh
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Valarc
Sep 17, 2007, 1:53 PM
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catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. That's great and all, but has nothing to do with the original statement, which implied that toproping through the top anchors somehow puts more wear on the rope than toproping through your own gear.
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catbird_seat
Sep 17, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Obviously, it is going to depend on on the nature of the fixed gear. It depends on the radius of the hardware. Using fixed gear wouldn't necessarily put more wear on your rope, but it could. Small diameter chain would put more wear on your rope than two carabiners. A stainless steel Fixe Ring is slightly smaller in diameter than a carabiner and certainly less than two carabiners. I know a few people who say they like to use three carabiners to further reduce wear on their ropes, but that's taking it a bit far.
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jt512
Sep 17, 2007, 6:22 PM
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Valarc wrote: catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. That's great and all, but has nothing to do with the original statement, which implied that toproping through the top anchors somehow puts more wear on the rope than toproping through your own gear. Welcome to arguing on the Internet. Jay
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coastal_climber
Sep 17, 2007, 7:39 PM
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jt512 wrote: Valarc wrote: catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. That's great and all, but has nothing to do with the original statement, which implied that toproping through the top anchors somehow puts more wear on the rope than toproping through your own gear. Welcome to arguing on the Internet. Jay When are you going to explain why? >Cam
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jt512
Sep 17, 2007, 7:47 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: jt512 wrote: Valarc wrote: catbird_seat wrote: Lowering does wear your rope out a lot faster than rappelling. Most of the wear happens to the sheath from friction with the rock, but some wear is due to the carabiner or whatever top anchor is used. That's great and all, but has nothing to do with the original statement, which implied that toproping through the top anchors somehow puts more wear on the rope than toproping through your own gear. Welcome to arguing on the Internet. Jay When are you going to explain why? >Cam I'm not. I'll let valarc do so, if he desires. My patience for arguing with people who can't reason logically has run out. Jay
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