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bigwalling


Oct 14, 2002, 8:00 PM
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At what grade would you be considered a elite trad climber?


dembrunjs


Oct 14, 2002, 8:29 PM
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I'm nowhere near qualified to answer this question in the climbing world but... IMHO, If it's like most things in life, one cannot (or should not) consider oneself elite until one is deemed elite by an unbiased, experienced source.

ie. - Your mom tells you you're the best quaterback she's ever seen (of course you are)

On the other hand, If John Elway tells you the same thing....


Peace


jbrd528


Oct 14, 2002, 8:34 PM
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who cares... you climb to have fun, not impress people


tigerbythetail


Oct 14, 2002, 8:36 PM
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 Agreed, who cares. Leave the climbing to yourself and the speculation to others who have nothing better to do.


petsfed


Oct 14, 2002, 8:39 PM
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Indeed. The only number chasing I do has to do with the numbers of routes total. If there are more routes at 5.11 than any other grade at where I climb, I want to be able to climb 5.11. If there are more routes at 5.6 than any other at where I climb, I want to be able to climb 5.6. Having fun is good, consistently having fun is better.


bigwalling


Oct 14, 2002, 9:06 PM
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Well I care! I want to be elite. I personally think that it is around 12d. I'm not asking if I'm elite(I'm not). Many people don't care about being that good but I do. Most people just want to have fun. I don't like being average in the other sports I do. I don't want to be average in this one.


petsfed


Oct 14, 2002, 9:41 PM
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Okay, fine. My answer to your question is that you should be able to climb in the moderates (in trad 5.9+ to 5.12 or so) at least, and be able to do so on what some would call "runout." Need an example? Try Perilous Journey
. 5.11b. No pro except 1 RP. That is elite. Not for the technical difficulty, but for the amount of self-control it requires. Just throwing out a grade is like saying you know how to write. Sure you can get by, but you might not be Shakespeare.

[ This Message was edited by: petsfed on 2002-10-14 22:10 ]


jbone


Oct 14, 2002, 10:01 PM
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You will know when you don't have to ask.

JBone


apollodorus


Oct 14, 2002, 10:06 PM
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I'm totally elite.

I've influenced at least one person by way of my virtue of positon (I was leading).

and I have the old typewriter in the garage.



Etymology: French Úlite, from Old French eslite, from feminine of eslit, past participle of eslire to choose, from Latin eligere
Date: 1823
1 a singular or plural in construction : the choice part : CREAM b singular or plural in construction : the best of a class [superachievers who dominate the computer elite -- Marilyn Chase] c singular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society d : a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence [members of the ruling elite] e : a member of such an elite -- usually used in plural
2 : a typewriter type providing 12 characters to the linear inch
- elite adjective


bigwalling


Oct 14, 2002, 10:14 PM
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I agree with you. That route is more like a free solo. Why even use the rope?

I know this one trad line I'd love to sent but I'm not willing to try yet(I'm not quite ready to fall and hit the ground). It is so thin that areas of it would barely accept Rurps. I think it would be rated 12b R. The R rating makes it much scarier(imo) and bolder.

Bad pro makes you one hell of a climber. Bold climbers rule. Gotta love this Guy and this guy Guy.


wade


Oct 14, 2002, 11:16 PM
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elite is climbing 13b or higher.
elite is climbing at a comp. and competing in a elite catagory.
elite is the fearless strong at heart.
elite is one finger one arm up.
elite is getting any hot girl to climb with you even if you butt ass ugly.
elite is? well its all your turn to fill in the blank________.


tigerbythetail


Oct 15, 2002, 12:43 AM
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 It's one thing to talk of bulls, it's another to be in the bullring.


tradklime


Oct 15, 2002, 8:43 AM
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Never.
It's like the old west, there will always be a faster gun (or several for that matter).

If you want to feel elite, it depends upon the people you climb with. Go to a climbing gym and recruit a bunch of beginners, never even thought about trad before, folks to be your entourage. Then you can feel elite.

However, if you can onsite 13+, you can be much less selective in recruiting your disciples.


winkwinklambonini


Oct 15, 2002, 8:55 AM
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Elite is never choosing the wrong piece of gear.

.......wearing comfortable shoes on hard trad.

.......climbing way below your highest grade because it's fun.


stevematthys


Oct 15, 2002, 4:00 PM
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i would say elite is onsighting 5.12 on trad


stone_monkey


Oct 15, 2002, 4:25 PM
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Elite?
I think climbing 5.15a is elite.
Or how about freeclimbing the Nose of El Capitan in a day.
That's elite....everything else pales in comparison.


micronut


Oct 15, 2002, 4:27 PM
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 5.12 o.s is bad ass. Being able to cruise up to a route like "Romantic Warrior" in the Needles an OS the whole deal, and love it.

But that's not even elite. Elite is like Peter Croft OSing "Moonlight Buttress", or Tommy Caldwell up on "honeymoon is over", or Yuji OSing "sphinx crack". Those guys are at another level.


petsfed


Oct 15, 2002, 4:42 PM
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As my final post on this topic, I'm with tigerbythetail on this one. If we aren't elite, what's the point of speculating? Of course, as I have speculated, this makes me a hipocite, so please don't think less of me.


gunked


Oct 15, 2002, 5:36 PM
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The word "elite" implies, to me, being seen as the 'shiznit' through somebody elses eyes. The question has more to do with who it is that you're trying to impress with being "elite".

Being elite means being the best and as we all know that is completely subjective. If you need to run it out on hard .12 with groundfall potential in order to look yourself in the mirror, then so be it. If that's the case, being the best has nothing to do with climbing.

IN SHORT : Be the best that YOU can be. And, always strive to be better.

Keep climbing. Keep lovin. Keep Growing.


dsafanda


Oct 15, 2002, 5:45 PM
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re"When to Consider yourself Elite"

"You" don't ever get to consider yourself elite! It is the luxury of the climbing community to single out individuals as members of the elite. Peter Croft, Lynn Hill, Dean Potter, etc. are great examples. Their actions rather than their words make it clear to us that they are the elite.


astone


Oct 15, 2002, 6:41 PM
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You are a jock!

And your grammar skills are sorely lacking as well.


elvis


Oct 16, 2002, 1:11 AM
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I think expierence counts more than eliteism. remeber when you reach that goal "Elite" grade you gonna want to go further so you will always be moving on to the next "elite" grade and if you think elite is a safe lead of a 5.10 great who cares what others think as long as its safe and fun that is what really counts


winkwinklambonini


Oct 16, 2002, 7:58 AM
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being in a mag.


Partner jammer


Oct 16, 2002, 8:20 AM
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I believe that it is when you can climb a 5.11 or 5.12 and up on a regular basis, leading that is. At least that is what I've read.

Climb On & Be Safe

[ This Message was edited by: handjammer48 on 2002-10-16 08:20 ]


edgelounger


Oct 16, 2002, 9:28 AM
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i'll be elite in 3 weeks 2 days


lostangel


Oct 16, 2002, 9:46 AM
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I think this question is opinionated and can only be answered by you.. if you think you are elite because you climb a 5.6 on TR.. well then in your world you are! if you don't think your elite just because you on sited a 5.13d... it just depends who you ask...

My Opinion...

Elite is someone who knows everything about every sort of climbing.... has been climbing a large variety of places, climbing for a long time and loves to do it everyday..
Everyday they pumps their heart into every climb whether its a 5.13 or a 5.6... those people carry an essence around them that makes every climber want to climb more... Anyone agree?

[ This Message was edited by: lostangel on 2002-10-16 09:49 ]


rushjunkie11


Oct 16, 2002, 2:57 PM
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to paraphrase the late, great, alex lowe:
The best climber in the world is the one who has the most fun.
If you can only climb 5.8 but have an absolutely amazing time doing it, you're elite in my book.


bigwalling


Oct 16, 2002, 5:49 PM
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DS, I would never consider myself elite. That wasn't what I was asking. I just wondered what some other people think a really good trad climber is.


merrick


Oct 16, 2002, 6:50 PM
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if you have to ask you are not elite.

it is that simple.


arostecrux


Oct 16, 2002, 8:26 PM
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I think anyone who approaches climbing with the goal of being "elite" is an unfortunate person. To think that you would spend countless hours pushing yourself to your limits so you might be good enough, through another person's eyes, to be deemed "elite" - meaning you are better than just about everyone around. Its sad to know that there are people out there spending money, time, energy and emotion on a sport (or way of life) that I love, with the goal of being elite.

Those who are elite didn't start climbing with that goal in mind. They just love to climb. They love it so much that one day they were better than everyone else. Not because they consciously wanted to be better, but because they love climbing more and had more fun doing it. You cant will yourself to be a good climber. You can try and close your eyes and hope and pray for God or whoever to grant you the skills necessary to be an elite climber. Or, you could just go out, have fun, push yourself, and one day you might find yourself alone near the top.


rockprodigy


Oct 17, 2002, 6:51 AM
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I think 5.12 is advanced, but not elite. I think 75% of the population could climb 5.12 trad if they were really motivated to...it doesn't require any special talent, just lot's of practice and fitness. 5.13 is pretty rare though...there's probably less than 100 people in this country who climb trad at that level...I think that actually requires some climbing-specific genes, or not having a job.


mreardon


Oct 17, 2002, 1:30 PM
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To answer the question posed, I would say that consistently leading 5.12 trad in multiple areas is elite. It does take a special set of skills (learned and/or natural), and not everyone can achieve it, otherwise more would be doing it if it was that easy.

As for when "you" can be considered elite, that's for other's to say. Being in a magazine or having a sponsor doesn't mean you're the best, it merely means you know how to market yourself (Wolfgang Gullich climbed a couple 5.14d 10 years before anyone managed to repeat and it was hardly heard of).

And as for only climbing for yourself and not caring what others think, that's hardly what many professional people climb for. It's a living for them. They promote themselves, and they compete against one another. Peter Croft and John Bachar are very nice people (though Bachar had some arrogance at times), but don't think there wasn't some healthy "friendly" competition going on during their most popular moments a decade ago (or do you really think someone was just walking by with a camera when Bachar soloed "The Gift" and Croft was filmed soloing "Astroman"?). Look at all the major competitors out there, and that's what they're doing, competing. Whether it be against themselves, or others for sponsorship dollars, competition exists. And those that win tend to become what we term "elite".


bigwalling


Oct 17, 2002, 7:15 PM
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mreardon, I plan on leading 5.12 trad in the next couple years but I don't think I would consider myself elite or that anyone should.

The thing about being sponsored. You are so right! I know a guy who can climb 5.13c trad and he has never had a sponsor. He honestly said he is not the kind of climber that they sponsor. He leads .13d sport, A4+ NW aid(FA), M8/9s, v11/12. I consider that to be elite but I don't think he would.

Don't get the wrong imprestion by me asking this question. I love climbing more than anything(I plan to make a living doing it). The title of the thread is wrong. It was not to consider myself. Sorry for the miscomunication.


cologman


Oct 17, 2002, 7:50 PM
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My 2 bits; There are old climbers and there are bold climbers... after that I forget.
Having been around the block a bit myself I would side with the ones who are still climbing at whatever grade after 25 - 30 years. The fun is in the doing elite is in the execution.


wildtrail


Oct 17, 2002, 8:10 PM
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Never. At least I think it is assinine (sorry everybody) to consider yourself "elite". You climb what you can climb, the end.

Am I wrong? I know I can't climb 5.14, but that doesn't make me lower on the totem pole.

I think all the classifications need to be wiped out, along with all the stupid lingo. We are climbers, that's what we are. We all enjoy the same things and the same pleasures.

Just my two cents.

If anything, I would say once you bridge 5.14, exteme alpinism, high altitude mountaineering, that type of thing. That puts you in a low percentage of possible partners.

Steve


ronniefrown


Oct 17, 2002, 8:18 PM
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"it's lonely at the top" who do you look up to? who do you climb with? when you're dead does it matter anyway?


cologman


Oct 17, 2002, 8:25 PM
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An example; to some elite might be doing a long trad route like the Casual Rte on the Diamond with your 16 yr. old daughter and have her lead off broadway.


lightboi


Oct 19, 2002, 10:45 PM
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Elite is when others come to you at the crag and ask you for advice.

Elite is when you see a gumby doing something stupid that will get them killed and you stop them.

Elite is when that gumby hurts themself and you help with the rescure.

Elite is when you no longer care about grades and just climb.

Elite is that old guy who shows up and climbs all the "Hardman routes", then you later find out that he did all the FA's in the 70's while eatin shrooms and drinking red wine from a jug.

josh


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