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alexschultz1
Dec 22, 2007, 4:49 PM
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christmas is finally here and im getting my first rack, the only question is how do i learn how to use it? im the most experienced climber of all my friends so i cant rely on them to help me out. Ive been climbing for about a year now and only have toproped, no cliffs around here have bolts. Im 18 years old and would like to live out the rest of my life out of a wheel chair so i want to get a very good understanding of how to place cams, and lead climb in general before i go out and try it and make a mistake.
theres a couple climbing gyms near me, should i pay someone to teach me? or is it something that i can learn how to do by reading a book? or both?
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coastal_climber
Dec 22, 2007, 4:53 PM
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If you've never led before, you might want to try sport leading first, just to get the general practices down, belaying, clipping, etc.
If you contact a local guiding service, they usually offer a traditional lead course that teaches the basics of placing gear. If that isn't an option, try hooking up with an experienced leader, and learn by seconding.
>Cam
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eliclimbs
Dec 22, 2007, 5:10 PM
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I agree with the above poster. If those options won't work, get a book like "How to Rock Climb", go to your local crag, and practice placing pro while on the ground. Also, look for very easy trad climbs with bolted anchors. Good luck and be safe.
Eli
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shockabuku
Dec 22, 2007, 5:28 PM
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Practice placing the gear on the ground and hang on it and bounce on it to see what's good and what isn't. Start with easy climbs that you've done before when you start leading; real easy. You want to be able to focus on the gear and not have to worry about the climbing at the same time.
Make haste slowly.
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alexschultz1
Dec 22, 2007, 5:28 PM
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thanks man ill try that. im trying to be as safe as possible and dont want to risk a fall because i was to lazy / cheap to learn how to do it right
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ja1484
Dec 22, 2007, 5:56 PM
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On rocks. Where else?
In seriousness: A guiding service will be probably be the fastest route to start. Just don't make the mistake of thinking because you have the knowledge, you'll have the opportunity to use it.
Sometimes climbing isn't so forgiving as that. That's where judgement comes in. Despite what talk about "boldness", onsighting, and peer pressure would have you think, a better climber backs off to live another day. Don't wander into something that has a good chance of getting you hurt if you don't think you can manage the risk.
And make no mistake: Even if you know what you're doing, trad climbing is plenty dangerous. There are no guarantees about that wheelchair.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Dec 22, 2007, 6:00 PM)
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roseraie
Dec 22, 2007, 5:59 PM
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How have you been setting up anchors to toprope?
The other posters in this thread have given great advice, but I'm going to add one bit:
Don't leave the ground on lead without at least chatting with SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO LEAD TRAD. Ideally, he or she should be present for your first few trad leads. If this means paying someone to teach you, so be it.
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alexschultz1
Dec 22, 2007, 6:07 PM
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over the past year ive been climbing about 30 times and set up my toprope each time. i own about 100 feet of static rope and 120 feet of 1" webbing so i can set up multiple routes while im at the top and just switch the climbing rope from one route to the next w/o having to redo all the anchors.
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roseraie
Dec 22, 2007, 6:14 PM
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My question was more this: if there are no bolts at your cliff, to what do you anchor yourself? Do you place pro? Have you received proper instruction in anchor building?
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jcrew
Dec 22, 2007, 7:11 PM
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alexschultz1 wrote: and would like to live out the rest of my life out of a wheel chair so i want to get a very good understanding of how to place cams, and lead climb in general before i go out and try it and make a mistake....
first, that's a mature and reasonable statement.....i think you have the right attitude for trad.
.....In reply to: should i pay someone to teach me? or is it something that i can learn how to do by reading a book? or both?
can you stack and coil a rope quickly, provide a nice, attentive belay, carry more than your share of the gear, listen without undue questioning, suffer, and have shiny new gear? if the answer to these questions is "yes", then you are a perfect trad. apprentice. just find some old, hard dog, impress him /her with your patience, flash your new rack......and then follow, clean gear, and lead anything that is well within your ability once you get the gist of rigging anchors. and as was said above, all under the close supervision of your "master."
i learned exactly this way, at Skaha Bluffs, B.C.
(This post was edited by jcrew on Dec 22, 2007, 7:16 PM)
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moose_droppings
Dec 22, 2007, 7:30 PM
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alexschultz1 wrote: christmas is finally here and im getting my first rack, the only question is how do i learn how to use it? im the most experienced climber of all my friends so i cant rely on them to help me out. Ive been climbing for about a year now and only have toproped, no cliffs around here have bolts. Im 18 years old and would like to live out the rest of my life out of a wheel chair so i want to get a very good understanding of how to place cams, and lead climb in general before i go out and try it and make a mistake. theres a couple climbing gyms near me, should i pay someone to teach me? or is it something that i can learn how to do by reading a book? or both?
Surely you jest?
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spikeddem
Dec 22, 2007, 7:41 PM
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alexschultz1 wrote: over the past year ive been climbing about 30 times and set up my toprope each time. i own about 100 feet of static rope and 120 feet of 1" webbing so i can set up multiple routes while im at the top and just switch the climbing rope from one route to the next w/o having to redo all the anchors.
Does your new rack include a dynamic rope? Trad climbing on a static rope is not a bright idea.
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the_shoe
Dec 22, 2007, 7:47 PM
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The way that worked best for me was to climb a bunch of sport in the gym and outdoors. As was mentioned it helps to develop your head for leading above your last piece of protection.
While leading a bunch of sport I stumbled upon a older partner who had been climbing trad for a bunch of years. I followed him up anything and everything he wanted to lead. In my first year following him we must have climbed 50 routes together. During that time he was very open towards teaching me all the skills that I would need to break free from his lead one day.
As I would follow his routes I learned a lot as I tried to remove his gear. There were routes that he would float and I would remove his gear and focus on his placements trying to figure out why he placed gear in the places he did, I'd take notice of the placement it's self, take notice of the stance and position and look ahead at his next piece and what options I could see for gear that maybe were better or worse then what he had placed. I also learned a lot when we would climb routes that were right at his level of leading. Trying to remove gear following a strung out lead was one of the best learning experiences.
As I made my way to the belay I would study his anchors and compare them against the TR anchors he had taught me to build, I would then pay attention to how they were different for the type of climbs and belay stations.
When I finally broke off a started leading my own routes I can honestly say that I was doing so with complete confidence in my abilities and safety. In a short time I was letting my climbing and not my gear placements dictate my route selection. Every-time I set off to lead a climb now I continue to learn things that you only get to learn by leading.
It comes full circle, as I now help usher some of my climbing friends into their trad heads. The one thing that I notice is how much experience I gained for being such a young leader, just by following someone so experienced. Now with routes under my belt from all over the world. I can say for me the approach I took was invaluable. People will tell you to just start leading and there is nothing wrong with that approach, in fact eventually that is just what I did. There are things that I learned from books and following so many routes that I could never have learned on my own in short enough time to feel safe. It will take time, either you will spend tons of time climbing really easy routes learning from your mistakes and feeling sketched out or you will follow a ton of routes learning the whole way with the help of a experienced leader. Either way if you remember climbing is fun regardless you will be fine. I still love following the guy who taught me on really hard lines. It's fun.
Good Luck.
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zuegma
Dec 22, 2007, 9:06 PM
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I started under the wing of a friend/guide of mine. I spend most of my time in the gym learning how to lead sport and taking some other free clases and such. Then after picking up a job i had some extra money and decided to takea guided trrip to seneca. It ended up being really cool b/c there were only two students and there were two guides so i got 1 on 1 instruction and was able to learn a lot. It was a ton of fun. Then over the summer i started leading routes that i was very familiar with at my local crag, and then moved onto routes that i had never tried before.
This summer i am looking forward to going back there with a friend of mine and doing the leading myself.
good luck and be safe.
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livinonasandbar
Dec 22, 2007, 10:31 PM
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"christmas is finally here and im getting my first rack, the only question is how do i learn how to use it?"
1. Pick a nice crag that's not too cold in winter.
2. Send me an airline ticket.
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punk_rocker333
Dec 23, 2007, 6:55 AM
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Don't listen to anyone from Florida, they have no rock there.
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livinonasandbar
Dec 23, 2007, 11:11 PM
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punk_rocker333 wrote: Don't listen to anyone from Florida, they have no rock there.
Punk...
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8flood8
Dec 24, 2007, 6:00 AM
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I mostly learned by leading easy stuff. I bought a set of hexes from some dude here on rc.com. I did a mock lead at some short wall in eugene and then went and spent a week in squamish with some friends. lead my first pitch on dierdra. a 5.8, the third pitch I believe. then I got some cams cheaply from rock empire. I read and reread john long's anchor book. then I started leading at enchanted rock. pick out some low angle routes... the kind that you can pretty much climb without hands if you HAD to... getting someone to critique your placements is clutch, but if that isn't available, stay on the ground, clip a throwaway sling to some placements and BOUNCE HARD. learn what pops and what holds weight. if you are leading and it gets scary, put in another piece and get after it! things to remember1. learn what a multi-directional placement is. 2. don't plug up all your holds with gear. 3. take it slow and try to estimate what gear you will need before you go up. 4. LOOK AT SOME ANCHOR PICTURES! and understand what makes a good anchor and why. good luck and remember... 3 cams cost less than a wheel chair!
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yokese
Dec 24, 2007, 6:41 AM
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8flood8 wrote: ... stay on the ground, clip a throwaway sling to some placements and BOUNCE HARD...
Use a helmet when testing placements that way... no, seriously.
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CaptainPolution
Dec 24, 2007, 8:31 AM
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figure out what good placements are
then
learn how to set an anchor up
then
go climb something easy
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DaniW
Dec 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
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i learn the basic of trad climbing with a guide, then i went to Arapiles, Australia. well, it seems to be the best trad school anywhere! lots of great easy(and very easy) routes from single to multipitch on a perfect rock with perfect protection anywhere(almost :) ! also, get the book: CLIMBING ANCHORS
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mangiari
Dec 26, 2007, 11:51 AM
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where did you learn how to trad lead climb?
There: http://members.financial.com/.../slides/IMG_4670.JPG
The area provides real trad climbing, they don't even use bolts on the top. Every route tops out and if you want to rapell, you have to build an anchor yourself. The last one in the evening has to walk down, what means half an hour bush work. That's real trad ethik 
I learned most stuff by myself, but looking at my close calls, I would not recommend that at all.
If you have routes out there, that can be protected with natural gear and also have good toprope anchors available, take one that is not too easy and aid it, being protected in toprope. At least with spring loaded camming devices, you will earn a lot of understanding by that. Helmets are never a bad idea.
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clymber
Dec 26, 2007, 1:02 PM
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one thing i used to do alot was goto a local bouldering area or even the cliff and start bouldering around with your rack...as you are going place gear build anchors etc etc....ppl give you some strange looks but who cares.....also depending on where you live hire a guide for a learn to lead class or try to find some trad climbers at your gym...i followed for a year or so before i started to lear trad...in my opinion theres no need to sport lead first..if you want to learn trad start praticing....im thinking all the old hard core climbers back in the day didnt have sport to practice with before jumping into the trad lead
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knieveltech
Dec 26, 2007, 2:45 PM
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I read Freedom of the Hills and John Long's book on anchors cover to cover six times. I spent hours tying and retying knots one-handed while sitting on the couch. I headed out to the local crag a couple of times and spent the day placing gear and rigging anchors on the ground. I posted pictures of my placements online to see what other people thought. I seconded a small handful of routes (nowhere near as many as I would have liked). I practiced eyeballing cam placements in my apartment (bomber #3 camalot between the kitchen counter and the fridge) then I went out to one of the local climbing areas and hopped on a short 5.3 and stitched it up (I can climb 5.9, maybe 5.10).
Read everything you can get your hands on. Consider hiring a guide if you can afford it. If seconding someone more experienced isn't an option spend a lot of time placing and cleaning gear and rigging anchors on the ground. Then go find a route that you could climb barefoot with one hand (literally) that offers plenty of gear placements, and get your send on.
(This post was edited by knieveltech on Dec 26, 2007, 3:22 PM)
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