|
Adk
Feb 9, 2008, 9:57 PM
Post #26 of 56
(4288 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2006
Posts: 1085
|
I rack most of my gear on my harness. I put my small passive pro including my tri-cams on my right and my larger stuff on my left.
I usually put my cams on a gear sling.
All my biners are clipped gate facing in starting with two BD Rock locks and then biners are chained to them. Lockers on one, non-lockers on another.
I prefer to use ovals for racking gear. Slings get thrown toward the back two loops somewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
irregularpanda
Feb 10, 2008, 12:14 AM
Post #27 of 56
(4270 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2007
Posts: 1364
|
Clausti said:
[whatever, I don't have a dick to start with, i certainly don't want two "more" swinging!]
Sure, why not. I just don't really bring a sling unless it's longer than 7 pitches, and I can usually fit all the gear for a 6-7 pitch climb on my harness. And then, it really pisses me off to have all my gear flop in my lap or behind my back when I'm gripped, but if it's on my harness, I know exactly where it is without looking.
|
|
|
|
|
kmc
Feb 10, 2008, 3:33 AM
Post #28 of 56
(4246 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2006
Posts: 252
|
"
meh, i just wondered if you'd seen anything particularly egregious. like a puppy. i rapped in with my cat in my backpack once. "...Clausti
I have not seen this myself, but I have seen a guy climbing with a racoon hanging from his harness. Oh, thats right, that was actually a Jim Carey movie.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 10, 2008, 4:09 AM
Post #29 of 56
(4240 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
kmc wrote: " meh, i just wondered if you'd seen anything particularly egregious. like a puppy. i rapped in with my cat in my backpack once. "...Clausti I have not seen this myself, but I have seen a guy climbing with a racoon hanging from his harness. Oh, thats right, that was actually a Jim Carey movie.
whatever, i coudlnt leave the cat alone at my apartment (she tore shit up, major separation anxiety from being a rescue kitty) so for a season, she came climbing with me.
[insert sense of humor here.]
|
|
|
|
|
rgold
Feb 10, 2008, 4:31 AM
Post #30 of 56
(4232 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
|
I've tried all kinds of systems. We old-timers from the iron age grew up carrying our gear hanging from a shoulder sling on the left side. The right side was kept clear because that's where your hammer was and you didn't want the hammer cord tangling with the gear sling when you needed to get the hammer out and in action fast. Because of those beginnings, I've always had a preference for gear on a sling hanging on the left.
It is true that on overhangs, the gear slides around behind you, but we learned soon enough how to reach back and sweep it forward into our laps. Of course, climbs nowadays are both more overhanging and are overhanging for longer, so shoulder sling racking for these climbs seems less and less functional. Now that we have harnesses rather than swamis, a quickdraw placed at the back of the rack can be clipped it to either a harness loop or the belay loop to keep the gear forward on overhangs, but it is still easier to reach gear racked on the harness on consistently overhanging rock.
If the route isn't consistently overhanging, then I still find harness racking less convenient. Maybe I'm just used to the weight on my shoulders, but when I put an entire rack on my harness, it feels as if its gonna drop down around my knees, a sensation that does not contribute to a sense of calmness and well-being. Moreover, I find it hard to reach across and get a piece on the other side of the harness from the free hand, whereas I'm always able to pull the gear on a sling around. Additionally, it is much easier to get gear racked on the harness pinned against the wall in corners and other features, and for anything wide, harness racking is really inferior. Finally, I find harness racking slows down multipitch changeovers.
All these negatives notwithstanding, I like most people use a hybrid system that is well adapted, I think, to belay changeovers. I start out with the gear on a sling, free runners over the opposite shoulder, and quickdraws on the harness. For multipitch routes, it seems quickest to rack each cam (except possibly for the smallest ones) on its own biner, even though this adds a little weight.
The second cleans the cams to a harness loop, where they stay for the next lead. Quickdraws that were on the cleaned cams are racked to a harness loop in their usual position(s). Nuts usually have to be cleaned and racked with the quickdraw attached to them, I prefer putting them on a shoulder runner. When the second arrives at the the belay, the leader hands over the gear sling and over-the-shoulder runners. The leader has transferred any cams worn on the harness to that gear sling while belaying the second up. The second, who is about to lead, has only to re-rack the nuts that were cleaned and place the quickdraws from those nuts on the harness; everything else is already in place. While this is happening, the leader clips any remaining quickdraws onto the second's harness, and the second is set to begin the next lead.
Since most of the gear is either already racked by the second on the way up or is passed over with the gear sling, changeovers can be really fast.
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Feb 10, 2008, 5:06 AM
Post #32 of 56
(4218 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
I'm with you Rgold...especially on long routes where change over are critical.
One thing I tend to do differently is have both climbers use their own gear sling. This way when you are following you can begin racking on the way up, thus eliminating extra gear moves at the belay. Then when you reach the belay, the former leader clip's any left over gear and QD's/runners(which go on the harness) to you while you rerack any nuts.
Also I use a multi-loop gear sling, similiar to the one the OP made for himself. Although i use one commercially available not custom. This generally eliminates the problem of reaching the gear while climbing overhang's. Obviously it doesn't solve the problem completely, but it certainly helps and adds more organisation to the rack. It also makes it easier to get gear off...instead of 8-10 biners clumped together it's 2-3 per loop.
The majority of people I do long routes with practice the same racking technique's. Everyone has slight variations, but the meat of it all is the same.
josh
(This post was edited by flamer on Feb 10, 2008, 5:08 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Feb 10, 2008, 5:07 AM
Post #33 of 56
(4218 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
oldsalt wrote: irregularpanda wrote: ...I just don't really bring a sling unless it's longer than 7 pitches, and I can usually fit all the gear for a 6-7 pitch climb on my harness. OK, I'll bite... What happens after 7 pitches that hasn't already happened, that requires you to use a gear sling?
Are you telling me you don't have a 200 meter rope?
Dinosaur!!!
|
|
|
|
|
oldsalt
Feb 10, 2008, 5:15 AM
Post #34 of 56
(4212 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919
|
Please, I use a 185m 4 mil. The stretch allows me get into the 9th pitch before I need anything new on my rack.
And I can floss between pitches!
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Feb 10, 2008, 6:07 AM
Post #35 of 56
(4205 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
I usually rack on my harness, but I also think that the way we rack up depends on where we climb and with whom.
2 front loops for gear
2 back loops for 12 draws, cordolette and ATC.
That would be my set up for Gunks, RRG, Twall, Ont, Quebec, Jtree.
I have a multi loop gear sling from Metolius that I use for racking my gear in my pack but I never use it while leading. Maybe I will use it more on the west coast.
|
|
|
|
|
lithiummetalman
Feb 10, 2008, 8:09 AM
Post #36 of 56
(4193 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 286
|
Generally rack on the harness
front two loops: gear
back two loops: trad-draws and a couple biners, ATC
Haul loop: A super long runner
Have a dedicated /modified nylon sling that I carry in my pocket which can be used as a gear sling (or emergency bail sling) in a pinch depending on the pitch.
Always nice to have options
|
|
|
|
|
tomcat
Feb 10, 2008, 1:28 PM
Post #37 of 56
(4176 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2006
Posts: 325
|
In the eighties,I carried three Friends and some wired stoppers.It all fit on a sling on the left.
Enter middle age.Now have 7 Camalots mosta the time,four Aliens,two C3's and some wires.Couple years ago I got one of those BD big wall slings that go on both sides,cut all the doodads off it,and love it.Doesn't move around much,no choking action like crossed slings.It's comfortable and has a wee mesh pocket on my back that will take a topo,gu,Tikka ,Prussic or tp.Started racking my Camalots on OP 5.0's and like that.
Lot of climbs here have a mix of gear and bolts,so generally carry some(4-6) Petzl Spirit draws on my left front harness.Alpine draws are useful,carry those on my right and going back to 11/16 Nylon.Right rear loops get spare biners,mostly Heliums in summer,5.0's in winter.Left rear gets a locker with ATC and one other locker.Over the shoulders go over left shoulder.
In vinter I like those ice clippers.My Petzl harness takes two on the right,and they get the BD screws.I rack my Helix's on my left on individual biners with the wire gate facing down and out.I like to keep screws down there as they are farther from critical internal organs.Pretty much using just the Spirit draws for ice,racked on a piece of knotted perlon on my left.I like being able to flip them into my lap.Perlon sling is a runner or V-thread.Got a few longer nylon slings and stash them in my jacket pocket.
One thing I found super useful of late is some oldskool knotted nylon slings.Almost every trip features sling upgrade,clean-up,replacement or new anchor.These are great for this or getting off a multipitch alpine situation.I tie them a little longer in winter,and go through two or three a weekend usually.
Wired stoppers get installed on three or four wire gate ovals,about four each.In finger crack sizes I sometimes have a biner with a common sized stopper as the largest on that biner,and the smallest of the next one up(follow that?).I don't carry any larger stoppers anymore,or hexes,Tricams only in winter since I got a couple C3's.Aliens live in pairs.Black/Blue,Green/Yellow.
Climb on two 8.6's so skip the cordelette.Don't toprope more than a few times a season.
(This post was edited by tomcat on Feb 10, 2008, 2:59 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 10, 2008, 4:10 PM
Post #38 of 56
(4166 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
as far as gear slings go, the only time's i've consistently used one climbing multipitch (say, more than two), swinging leads. it just makes you less likely to drop stuff (not that i've never dropped anything) if you can hand over the rack, racked, to your partner when its their turn to lead.
3+ pitch climbing, however, is a small minority of stuff that i've done, growing up in the southeast with the best single pitch sport in the country nearby.
oh, and also... women have their center of gravity in their hips, yes, and men in their chest? i wonder if that accounts for some preference of sling vs harness. for women, extra weight on their harness feels natural, because it rests at their COG (and thus doenst change it), whereas for men, a lot of extra weight on their hips would shift the COG down, feeling "funny" and off balance? whereas if a man has a sling on and the gear hangs level with his chest/stomach, then it would be closer to his natural center?
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Feb 10, 2008, 4:45 PM
Post #39 of 56
(4160 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
C
I think the difference is less in center of gravity and more in fit.
I'm 5'9" with a fairly regular torso. The standard sewn 2' runner fits me perfect as a gear sling.
You are 5'3" I think. The women I've climbed with who are this height are going to have the gear at their calves with a standard sling. Barrel chested men also look a little tied up with a regular gear sling.
Back to the COG issue. A friend of mine took an upside down whipper and was lucky enough to come away with just a knot on her head. She was 5'3" and 100lbs soaking wet. She had a large rack on a sling. The route was overhanging and the fall was clean. There was absolutely no reason she should have gone upsidedown. We guessed at the time it was because the rack made her top heavy. That might not be it, but it did seem to fit the scenario.
I almost never climb without a gear sling but I don't know that it's the perfect solution for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
clausti
Feb 10, 2008, 6:12 PM
Post #40 of 56
(4142 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 5, 2004
Posts: 5690
|
in the scenario you describe, i could totally see her getting flipped upsidedown by the weight on the sling.
i wonder if men are more likely to take inverted whippers?
as far as the fit thing goes, you're definitely right, a standard sling puts gear at my knees, and even my misty adjustable sling is barely within my comfort zone, as small as it gets. if a standard sling gets behind me, i cant reach the gear. comical, but only in retrospect.
my more common problem withe the sling, though, is not that it gets too far behind me, but that that it gets in FRONT of me, and gets in my way.
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 13, 2008, 3:50 AM
Post #41 of 56
(4020 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
dang i leave this place for a few years and for some reason i woke up the other day thinking of 'winkwinklambonini'..i am not even kidding about that. had no idea where it came from but now i remember. i think you used to live in RI, right?
anyway i still can't rock the sling. on my harness i make sure that my bigger pieces (~#2 camalot and up) are the only ones out of reach to one hand or the other because that maximizes the likelihood that i can switch hands if needed. your system sounds pretty rad
|
|
|
|
|
wyoclimb
Feb 14, 2008, 1:16 AM
Post #42 of 56
(3972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 115
|
kmc wrote: Everything on my harness except maybe a four foot sling doubled and over my shoulder. I climb mostly at the Gunks, and learned early how much of a pain in the ass it is to place gear in an overhang when your gear is racked over your shoulder and it all falls behind you. Tripled slings on both sides, passive on the left, cams on the right.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Feb 14, 2008, 1:40 AM
Post #43 of 56
(3965 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
wyoclimb wrote: kmc wrote: Everything on my harness except maybe a four foot sling doubled and over my shoulder. I climb mostly at the Gunks, and learned early how much of a pain in the ass it is to place gear in an overhang when your gear is racked over your shoulder and it all falls behind you. Tripled slings on both sides, passive on the left, cams on the right. I'll agree stuff swings around. But isn't swapping leads a bitch
not really
|
|
|
|
|
moof
Feb 14, 2008, 9:42 PM
Post #44 of 56
(3941 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 400
|
For OW, chimneys, etc I of course do different, but for a typical trad route:
1. Nuts up front, half on each of two biners, one biner on each side.
2. Handful of draws, 6", 12", and 24" trad draws on the same loop as the nuts.
3. Blue-Yellow aliens, 2 sets, one set per biner, one set per side next.
4. Red Alien-#3 Camalot one cam per biner, one per side.
5. #5 Tech Friend back on the left.
5. 3 big hexes way in the back on the right.
6. Cordellette, maybe extra trad draws, a few lockers, and maybe a few free biners way in the back.
7. Over the shoulder I carry any extra draws and trad draws on a sling if needed.
Personally I used to really like keeping just 12" draws, and then kept the 24" draws open over the shoulder with one biner each, and a few free biners on the harness. Too many partners hated this, so I caved.
|
|
|
|
|
builttospill
Feb 16, 2008, 3:30 AM
Post #45 of 56
(3869 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2004
Posts: 814
|
stymingersfink wrote: builttospill wrote: regardless of which hand is placing gear, I can easily grab a screw and a runner. and i thought you said you don't place screws with your left quite yet! 
I think I only have on lead once. It's more for peace of mind than anything. Sort of liking taking an extra wrap in the leashes.....just one thing I do that tells me I'm ready to go....one less thing to go wrong. But then you probably knew that 
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Feb 16, 2008, 4:23 AM
Post #46 of 56
(3865 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
you gettin out tomorrow?
How's santaquin sound?
|
|
|
|
|
builttospill
Feb 16, 2008, 8:24 PM
Post #47 of 56
(3837 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2004
Posts: 814
|
Probably not. I'm in the middle of finishing the remodel of the upstairs. Sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Mar 7, 2008, 5:33 AM
Post #48 of 56
(3618 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
All on my Misty Mountain harness...
Everything below is on both sides equally:
-Draws on one biner of one draw (to take up less room) in the front loops
-Stoppers on 3 biners (2-5 on one, 6-8 another, 9-13 on last), front loops
-Small cams on one biner, front loops
-Large cams on one biner, back loops
-Cord and other stuff on biners in the back
-Shoulder loops and doubles, well, over the shoulder
Note-I have a lot of stoppers (around 60), and about 15 cams. And I rarely take all my stuff, as I only take the bigger cams and smaller stoppers (2-5) when I know I'll need them.
If mutli pitch, I have a slung 1/2 gallon Gatoraid bottle that goes over the shoulder, and gets clipped to a biner in the back to keep it from swinging in front. When I build an anchor, most gear gets hung from it, as well as my shoes whilst on belay.
Picture below is pre Misty Mountain harness (6 loops), and pre 15 cams, but you get the idea...
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Mar 7, 2008, 5:43 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
hugepedro
Mar 7, 2008, 8:07 AM
Post #49 of 56
(3581 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875
|
"How do you rack up?"
These days, about 3 pounds lighter since I bought a bunch o dem newfangled light biners and skinny slings.
I usually rack on my harness because I don't like the weight of a gear sling shifting in a balancy spot, and when multi-pitching I'm usually leading every pitch.
Cams on the right front loop.
trad draws and usually a couple sport draws on the left front loop.
Nuts, hexes, tricams on the left back, on 3 biners.
Pedrodelic anchor rig, nut tool, prusik, personal anchor on the right rear.
|
|
|
|
|
winkwinklambonini
Mar 7, 2008, 2:08 PM
Post #50 of 56
(3556 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 17, 2002
Posts: 1579
|
Thank you everyone, but I must confess, I had other motives for this post. A few weeks ago I was taking a stroll down memory lane and I found this, my first ever post. I was surprised by how helpful everyone was, looking back.
Maybe this is because I've been spending too much time on the soap box, but I thought that if I posted the same thing again, I could show a difference in helpfulness. I was wrong, and that's sweet.
I still use my gear sling with the extra loop on the left for draws, shoulders over the shoulder, doubles double over the shoulder, 2 keylocks each. Just hold on with the right, grab a biner, and whip it out, so to speak.
|
|
|
|
|
|
