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winkwinklambonini
Oct 28, 2002, 6:32 PM
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I've always thought that if I owned land with bouldering on it, I would institute a boulder rotation policy.
Once every five or ten years to get the most of those boulders............thoughts?
[ This Message was edited by: winkwinklambonini on 2002-10-31 15:31 ]
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lox
Oct 28, 2002, 9:00 PM
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Stupid.
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boulderingmadman
Oct 28, 2002, 10:20 PM
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so waht, youd just move a bunch of house-sized rocks?? yea...go ahead. and IF you can move a house-sized rock, would you really trust it to be climbable afterwards??? i guess you really havent thought about it too much, now, have you.....
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jamison
Oct 28, 2002, 11:19 PM
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I think they had a special about moving boulders on the Discovery channel. It had something to do with Jupiter aligning with Mars and the moon is in the seventh house you can just will the rock to move...
A wise man once said..."Do, or do not...There is no try"
It ain't gonna happen. Don't "do".
If you do find a boulder that might move. Just make sure your house isn't down hill of it...
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grandwall
Oct 28, 2002, 11:26 PM
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That's a rad idea. You don't really have to move them that far, you just have to roll them a bit. This will create new problems. Imagine if we rotated all the boulders in the world just a little bit!
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curt
Oct 28, 2002, 11:43 PM
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I believe that I would do this seasonally, rather than on a 5-10 year basis. Point them south in the winter--north in the summer.
Curt
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 29, 2002, 4:12 PM
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randwall and curt are the only people with brains here.
If I was rich enough to own land, then I'd have a large crane as well, or i've seen trail crew at Cathedrel Ledge using come-alongs to pull very large boulders effectivly. and I like the north south Idea!
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lox
Oct 29, 2002, 5:18 PM
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This is seriously the worst idea ever.
Thankfully, you'll never make that much money.
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boulderingmadman
Oct 29, 2002, 9:07 PM
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yea...you and your comealong can go ahead and move your boulders around...youd be better off with a helicopter, though....have ypou considered the un-stability of boulders after moving them around abit?? and, for some reason, ive never seen boulders big enough to be worth wasting my time climbing on that could be moved during any sort of trail maintenance...
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josher
Oct 29, 2002, 9:25 PM
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I have one large boulder in my back yard. I gave this idea some thought myself.(about 5 min.)
You are talking about moving a rock that weighs tons (huge crane required). Also, remember the boulder has been there (forever) and has setttled into place. If you move it, it can be unbalanced and move, possibly worsening the climbability of it.
My 2¢
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 9:39 PM
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How is a boulder that has been rotated going to be unstable? If the thing weighs 3000 lbs and you weigh 150 lbs then climbing on the side of it isn't going to cause it to move while climbing on it. Besides the thing probably weights 10000 lbs. Adding less than 1.5% of the boulders weight to the side of it isn't going to do anything but create NEW PROBLEMS!
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pushfurther
Oct 29, 2002, 9:54 PM
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you can go ahead and rotate your boulders.
in your dreams.
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 10:25 PM
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pushfurther: Fine, I will rotate my boulders and I won't let you climb on them
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 29, 2002, 10:47 PM
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There is a 25' horizontal hand crack in LIncoln Woods(Shiprock).
Now if you were to prop that thing up, you'd have a sweet soloable(handcracks are bomber) crack. In a few years you'd never know. I don't think there is anything ethicly wrong with that, it's just a boulder.
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 11:04 PM
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And if you tilt it a bit you can have an overhanging hand crack. You're a genious!
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jamison
Oct 29, 2002, 11:33 PM
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Wink,
how big of boulders are these people moving?
I just did some quick (and probably inaccurate calcs {on the low side}) and came up with something approaching 40 tons for a 10' diameter boulder.
I still don't think that a boulder of any size worthy of messing with can be moved without some major work.
BTW, the Chinook can carry something like 13 tons. Just to give you all an idea of the magnitude were talking.
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petsfed
Oct 29, 2002, 11:49 PM
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Ever try to balance something, I mean really? The weight of the sticker on the other end of a canoe can throw its center of gravity off by about an inch. Quite a large distance here. So you throw a climber of around 160 pounds onto a boulder of 80,000 pounds (40 tons), and its center of mass moves from its very stable place (going straight down), to 1/2 an inch away and it starts a rollin'. Boulders that we climb on usually have been there for thousands of years. They have settled from thousands (if not millions) of birds resting, snows falling, and the occasional squirrel...squirreling...they are still stable even with the new center of mass from each bird because it has found a very stable position. I would suggest you contact a skilled soil dynamicist (someone who studies the load bearing abilities of the soil) before you start moving any large rocks.
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ponyryan
Oct 29, 2002, 11:54 PM
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Oh yeah, I've thought about this, until I actually tried it (High school prank), it failed miserably, even small rocks are heavy enough to quickly make me realize all efforts would be futile. If you figure out a method that works, let me know, I have a sweet prank I would like to see implemented
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grandwall
Oct 30, 2002, 12:00 AM
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petsfed: "Squirrels...squirreling"? We're talking about rocks here pal. You're center of gravity is probably thrown off by that purse you've got over your shoulder.
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curt
Oct 30, 2002, 2:08 AM
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Lords 'a leaping
Maids 'a milking
Geese 'a laying
Squirrels 'a squirreling
I'm starting to get into that festive holiday spirit already!
Curt
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boulderingmadman
Oct 30, 2002, 2:24 AM
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though petsfed is taking into account very minute details, that are accurate over the millenia that it takes for a decent boulder (say...the happy boulder?) to settle...his theory is correct.
if you move a large, climbable, and worthy of the effort rock, you have destroyed MILLIONS of years of soil compaction, earth movements(most boulders appear in generally active geological areas...), freezes and thaws, soil-water saturation, erosion, etcetcetcetcetc....all of which impact a rocks stability.
reality is this: if you rotate this boulder, there is no more stability. try needing to cement the f---er to the ground in order to avoid any catastrophic leveraging from the weight of a climber. it will NEVER work...
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petsfed
Oct 30, 2002, 2:27 AM
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What was I supposed to say? "Frollicking" I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror after that. So I created a word that describes precisely what squirrels do, without having to be specific as to what that happens to be.
I'm not sure how I should take that "purse" comment. I do carry my trad gear on an over the shoulder sling which I guess might look like a purse if you were not focusing and were pretty drunk. Oh, wait, it could be my smaller camera bag. It does rather look like a purse. But those are distinctly different from purses, and since I don't own a mountain-smith "guy purse" (the day pack and its corolarries), I don't think this is a valid attack. Unless of course you're calling me a girl. In which case, to each his own, just so long as I don't figure into any of your dreams.
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sushislayer
Oct 30, 2002, 3:35 AM
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Didn't the Egyptians move some big ass rocks? I say move them and let others climb them for a bit first to "break them in..."
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petsfed
Oct 30, 2002, 3:44 AM
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They were carefully cut rocks that were then stacked on other rocks. To be sure there are similar forces at hand, but the medium used (limestone I think) is much more predictable than stone and gravel, so they didn't have to worry so much about collapsing...once they got the design right. There is actually a pyramid that changes slope about half way up because the designer realized that it was too steep and would collapse. Also, the ancient Egyptians were using a carefully crafted system that worked only for rocks of a certain shape, that of a rectangular prism. everything else just didn't work so good.
And you have a potential legal issue here too. Those rocks will take years (maybe centuries) to settle completely. In the meantime, you could have people in baggy shorts getting crushed to death on a weekly basis. Somehow around death number 3, I think the authorities would start asking questions.
[ This Message was edited by: petsfed on 2002-10-29 19:47 ]
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 30, 2002, 9:48 PM
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How about using some sort of machine to hollow out the boulder before moving it. Go in through a small hole that will end up on the bottom, maybe an articulating drill?
Yeah, that's stupid. But about stability, when/if you manage to move the damn thing, it'll settle on a flat side, not on a bulge. Once it starts moving, it'll have alot of momentum, and it'll take a very stable position just to stop it.
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