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abkaiser
Oct 29, 2002, 6:14 PM
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Anyone see MOS:V, where Dan O was leading trad, falls, and like 5 pieces of pro pull out before one catches him? I've got some questions about that:
1) Is it as horribly terrifying as it looks?
2) I understood "zippering" happened from the bottom up. What is this process called?
3) How often does this happen?
4) Is this due more from "operator error", or unforseeable bad luck?
Your insight to any question is appreciated.
Thanks,
Andy
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estwing
Oct 29, 2002, 6:23 PM
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Hi, though this has never happened to me I would say that yes it is horribly terrifying for anybody but Dan. He is the inventor of rope flying, in which you take crazy falls for fun, so I don't think a "little" whipper like that would have troubled him.
It is called pulling pieces.
It does not happen often if your gear is good.
It is likely due to bad placement opportunities, because Dan knows about placing gear.
Have a nice day,
Sam
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pattray
Oct 29, 2002, 6:26 PM
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that was set up for the film, he had cut through the slings almost all the way for that scene.
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 6:29 PM
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I've seen MOS V. It's a good film.
1) Yes
2) You are correct. I would call this 'gear popping out of placements.'
3) I have never had a piece pop (3 big falls).
4) I am not 100% sure why Dan's system failed. It is not very likely that his protection failed (broke). Sometimes when you are leading there are no good spots to place gear and you are left making the best out of marginal placements and are unsure as to whether they will hold or not. Since Dan was a risk taker, I think this is the most probable situation.
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abkaiser
Oct 29, 2002, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
that was set up for the film, he had cut through the slings almost all the way for that scene.
What?! Where did you hear that?
...My wife and I had a long discussion about the mental state required to do the stuff Dan did. I've only read and seen second hand accounts, but he seemed like an extremely interesting guy.
Andy
[ This Message was edited by: abkaiser on 2002-10-29 10:45 ]
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 6:33 PM
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pattray: Do you remember if his gear stayed attached to the rope as he fell? I think they went flying. If that is the case then either the slings or biners must of failed (as you've already noted).
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coreyr
Oct 29, 2002, 6:37 PM
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Just like pattray said, he cut the slings for the film.
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mountainmonkey
Oct 29, 2002, 6:37 PM
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If it is the fall where he rips several pieces and is wearing the body armor - then yes that was set up for film. He cut most of the way throught the slings so anywhere on the pitch he would rip the pieces. I saw another clip from a film where he was cutting the slings beforehand and he looks at the camera and says "do you think this is crazy?"
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holmeslovesguinness
Oct 29, 2002, 6:49 PM
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I saw another clip from a film where he was cutting the slings beforehand and he looks at the camera and says "do you think this is crazy?"
Yes, that is crazy! I've never seen this film, but why the heck would anyone want to tempt fate like that? Guess when you're elite you've got a license for insanity
Regarding the original posters question - I don't think gear pulling like that is very common, but it certainly does happen, usually with unpleasant results. For example, the famous Swedish adventurer Goran Kropp died recently under similar circumstances - he fell from near the top of a perhaps 70 foot climb, all but his last piece pulled, he hit the deck and died. I guess in his case though the pieces started pulling from the top down, not the other way around.
[ This Message was edited by: holmeslovesguinness on 2002-10-29 11:14 ]
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coloradoclimber
Oct 29, 2002, 6:49 PM
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If you put a sling around a tree or a solid rock at the bottom and clip that as the first piece you reduce the risk of zippering from the bottom up. I forgot what its technical name is.
[ This Message was edited by: coloradoclimber on 2002-10-29 10:50 ]
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pushfurther
Oct 29, 2002, 6:59 PM
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i'm just a lowly boulderer, so my knowledge on this subject is next to nothing..
zippering occurs from the bottom up the rope, pulling the pieces up and out, and the way you prevent it is by placing the first piece in opposition to the rest..
trad nazis..am i right?
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grandwall
Oct 29, 2002, 7:06 PM
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You could say 'trad climbers: am I right?' instead. It would come across better. For the record, you are correct. If you place your first piece to protect an upward pull as well as a downward fall this should prevent zippering. Also for the record I am a boulderer who climbs trad.
[ This Message was edited by: grandwall on 2002-10-29 11:20 ]
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clmbnski
Oct 29, 2002, 7:08 PM
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That scene was definitly rigged for some sort of extreme action sequence. Not only is he wearing armor, the place where he falls looks fake,(intentional). He probably put in some bomber peice or pieces at a specified place where he knew he wouldnt deck and then used the cut slings from there. exciting looking but not real.(as in unplanned)
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climblouisiana
Oct 29, 2002, 7:15 PM
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I read that he cut through the slings in an interview in one of the climbing mags. He set the stage for a big fall. I heard that his belayer, Hidetaka Suzuki, got pulled up into the rock and got hurt.
Author, Andrew Todhunter (not 100% sure about his name), has a book called "Fall of the Phantom Lord" that was a biography of Osman. Has anyone read that?
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rckjk
Oct 29, 2002, 7:16 PM
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I have that video and from what I can see it looks like some slings were cut and some pieces just pulled out. I think sense he was wearing the body armor he may have cut some slings and just placed bad pieces for either the purpose of the film or for the purpose of testing gear. I know Dano worked with many companies as a gear tester and that might just have been one of his tests. Not positive just my thoughts.
Ron
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rckjk
Oct 29, 2002, 7:20 PM
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I read that book. It was awesome. Seems kind of crazy though, just a month or so after the book was published he died and then R&I and Climbing did stories on him, which really fit all the pieces together. Good read I recommend it. after you read the book pick up those two magizine articals and read them.
Ron
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mreardon
Oct 29, 2002, 7:49 PM
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The scene of Dano in MOS V was from one of the earlier ones (MOS II?). Dano was a regular in all the MOS vids (some would say he's the reason they sold at all). In the earlier one, there is a clip of Dano cutting the slings with the "crazy" comment, then the whole scene of him faking the fall and "ripping" pieces out. Dano may have seemed nuts, but he was actually pretty careful (as much as one can be in this sport), and protected his body with a ton of pads, and all the cut slings were placed in such a way as to slow the impact of the fall from being just a straight big fall. The main pieces down low to protect the decking potential were extremely bomber, and yes, Hidetaka was belaying and got injured when he was pulled up and into a rock.
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billcoe_
Oct 29, 2002, 8:22 PM
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I read the Todhunter book on DanO too:
On a scale of 1-10, with most John Long stuff being 9 or higher, I give it a 3 or a 4. Generally not worth reading.
I will sell my book for $12.00 and that includes shipping. PM me and I'll give you an address to mail the check if you are interested. It's a hardcover in fair to good (not perfect of course) condition.
Regards:
Bill
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burz
Oct 29, 2002, 8:45 PM
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How can you compare "Fall of the Phantom Lord" to John Long's books? The book about Osman is not a "How To" book, it is for entertainment. By the way, I thought the "Phantom" book was awesome and read it in two sittings.
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flamer
Oct 29, 2002, 10:47 PM
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Anytime you fall and pull several pieces- regardless as to wether they come out from the top or bottom- you have just "zippered" gear, not to mention what you may or may not have done in your under roo's! Also for anyone who may not know it John Long has written numerous books of fiction and non-fiction. And they are Extremely good. He is way more than just a "How To" author.
[ This Message was edited by: flamer on 2002-10-29 14:49 ]
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coclimber26
Oct 30, 2002, 3:09 AM
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Your right, the zipper was set up for the movie. Makes for great footage though...Talk about an adrenaline junkie..
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bwnco
Oct 30, 2002, 6:53 PM
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I knew Dan's mom. Asked her alot of questions about the man. He just needed alot to get the ole, saratonin flowing.
The zipper fall in the film was set up.......but yes it can happen. bw
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ponyryan
Oct 30, 2002, 7:22 PM
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At a recent photo shoot at smith rock a climber was intentionally running out the top pitch of a 3 pitch climb just to take a whipper from the top of that pitch clear down to the top of the second pitch. I've heard the shots of it were spectacular, but I'm yet to get my hands on them.
Professional climbers or the otherwise insane may be able to get away with cutting slings/intentionally placing bad pro, but don't try it, it's very dangerous if you don't know exactly what you're getting into.
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dune
Oct 30, 2002, 7:50 PM
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I read Fall of the Phantom Lord too. To call it a biography about Dan O is an exageration. It's incomplete in that regard; Andrew Todhunter wrote more about himself. Andrew seems like a nice enough guy, but I didn't pick up the book to read about him.
Unfortunatly this book is the only thing close to a biography about Dan O, so if you really want to learn about his feats and style read it. But, don't cry to me if you're disappointed, I've set the expections properly enough for you. BTW, there are some good articles in the usual climbing mags that will fill in some blanks you might have about Dan O.
I have a very high opinion about Dan. I was lucky enough to meet him, shake hands and see him do his thing. I'll never forget it. I've never seen anything like it since. He slimed a lot, was full of life and had an aura different than I've felt in anyone else.
In his life he tapped into something deeply important for us all to see. I'm not sure what, and I'm not sure he could articualet it either, but I know it's true.
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easysteve
Jan 6, 2003, 6:15 AM
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I heard he fixed the fall. I got the film, and it doesn't look all that real convincing that it was an accident.
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repete
Jan 23, 2003, 6:04 PM
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I just got masters of stone V like 2 days ago. The fall was fixed. Thats y it was right under the cameraman, just like the huge fall he took on Masters of Stone I. That one was a totaly set up. They even released pigeons (spelling)when he fell to make it look better.
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mikefreeman
Jan 23, 2003, 6:09 PM
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pattray and you other folks are right about him partially cutting the slings.
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repete
Jan 24, 2003, 5:39 AM
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You are wrong. For one you can see the pieces or biners on the rope after he fell and also if you would have pulled 10 pieces he would likely have fallen 100+ feet. Of course he fell way more than twice as far as he was from his top piece, remember he did "pull" 5 or 10 or however many pieces. And on another not he realy didnt pull any pieces if he cut his slings. they pro would have stayed in the rock.
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coclimber26
Jan 26, 2003, 3:22 PM
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The scene was rigged and two camera's were set up to catch his zipper fall.
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