Forums: Climbing Information: Injury Treatment and Prevention:
Climber Raps Off End of Rope
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Injury Treatment and Prevention

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


volleymdut


Apr 14, 2008, 6:55 AM
Post #26 of 42 (2177 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 13, 2008
Posts: 5

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This was a moving post. I hope you heal well and quickly. What a blessing to have a loving family. I was also interested to hear your thoughts on the manner in which the docs cared for you. I treat many fractures and am always hoping to hear how to treat the PATIENT better. Your insight has helped me in many ways.

Speedy recovery.


WVUCLMBR


Apr 14, 2008, 7:04 AM
Post #27 of 42 (2171 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 668

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I just wanna repeat all the thanks and kind wishes you have already recieved. Jems like this one make wading through all the rc.com crap worth it. I have made several stupid mistakes myself lately and realize that I need to be more careful/attentive. Thanks for posting this and speedy recovery bro....
Bryan


sterlingjim


Apr 14, 2008, 7:13 AM
Post #28 of 42 (2163 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 7, 2006
Posts: 251

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Over 30 years of climbing. I will tie knots in the ends of my ropes now. Thanks.


WVUCLMBR


Apr 14, 2008, 7:17 AM
Post #29 of 42 (2161 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 668

Re: [sterlingjim] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

How about making ropes with fat ends so this doesn't happen? Laugh


dingus


Apr 14, 2008, 7:32 AM
Post #30 of 42 (2150 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398

Re: [sterlingjim] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

There have been situations in my career where knotting the ends of the ropes would have introduced its own set of potentially severe risks, most notably high winds blowing the ropes toward rope eating cracks 75 feet to the side, while rapping with haulbags.

High mountains too and certain types of rock formations, where a knot virtually guarantees stuckage and yet an oncoming storm or what have you dictates RAPID descent.

There are times when you have to manage risks and no one answer will accomodate all the bad things that can happen.

Sometimes in climbing YOU JUST CAN'T FUCK UP.

That's not to say the advice in the OP isn't sound.

Its just a cautionary - there are times when knotting the ends of the rope may not be the right answer. It may pay to be sensitive to those situations. Getting zapped by lightning while trying to free a stuck rope may be no better a result.

Cheers
DMT


Partner robdotcalm


Apr 14, 2008, 8:40 AM
Post #31 of 42 (2128 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1027

Re: [dingus] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Managing a rappel is situational. Is the rappelling on steep, overhanging or low-angle terrain? Are you carrying a heavy pack or just a small amount of gear? Is it calm or is the wind blowing? Is it raining, lightening, or clear and sunny? Have you done this rappel before and have certain knowledge of its length, or are you estimating? Are there cracks in which a knot can get caught? Are you prepared to climb back up the rope if you find yourself dangling in space? Probably, others can add to this list. The point is that the action you take to safeguard the rappel depends upon the nature of the rappel.

Dingus has listed some situations in which knotting the ends of the rope is not advisable. The rule my partners and I use is that the knotting is the default. If circumstances warrant such as those suggested by Dingus, we override the default and do not place knots. Often these are high wind situations in which there are various techniques available for handling the rope.

About the only absolutes, I follow in rappelling are the following. If itís a one rope rappel, make sure the rope has been middled. As some serious accidents have shown, just seeing the rope ends on the ground does not always suffice. To make this easier to ascertain, I bought a bi-colored rope last year. Iíll never go back to a single-colored rope. Use an auto-block. If you have a helmet, wear it. (About the only time I donít have one, is if Iíve climbed something like a tight squeeze chimney that it wonít get through).

Gratias et valete bene!
RobertusPunctumPacificus


durangoclimber


Apr 14, 2008, 8:40 AM
Post #32 of 42 (2128 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 179

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks so much for this. I was a guide for a lot of years and this rings so true. As I get older (I am only 34 years young) I find myself taking much longer to recover. Your post is very inspiring and a true wake up call. I was out yesterday climbing at East Animas (here in Durango) and noticed that almost no one knots the ends of their ropes anymore. We were on the Watch Tower Crystal wall and the climbs are multi pitch and it is hard to see the ground, yet I didn't see anyone knotting their ends.....nor did I. The thought crossed my mind, but I just didn't do it. I bet my wife would kick my ass if I got hurt. I really appreciate you having the courage to share this. As do my kids and wife.
Hope you recover fast.


therelic


Apr 14, 2008, 9:49 AM
Post #33 of 42 (2101 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 11, 2002
Posts: 136

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

BrokenClimber, thanks for the essay it is well written. I am sure what you wrote will save someone somewhere sometime.

I started solo cross-country wilderness travel in the mountains when I was sixteen years old, I am now sixty five years old and still at it. I climb, scramble and try to go where very few if any people have traveled before. There is no cell phone reception and no helicopter rescue. In fact no one could possibly even know where I am or if I have had an accident. If I screw up I die and I know it.

One of the primary reasons I am typing this today is because people like you have told their story. Or worse their stories have been told after analysis of their demise. I have always kept these incidents in the front of my mind and done my very best to not make the same mistakes, so far so good. I have several more trips planned this year and I will make sure whenever the situation allows for it I will either have a knot in the end of my rope or that both ends of my rope are on the ground.

Thanks for telling your story. Good luck to you in the future.

Bill


(This post was edited by therelic on Apr 14, 2008, 9:53 AM)


vector


Apr 14, 2008, 2:28 PM
Post #34 of 42 (2051 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 88

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks for the well written story. That kind of writing makes an impression and in this case will probably save someone's life by doing so.

Have a speedy recovery!


billcoe_


Apr 14, 2008, 3:58 PM
Post #35 of 42 (2021 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4693

Re: [therelic] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

 
Yup, been there done that. Like what Bill says above, I almost lost it last year on a lonely solo Mt journey when I made a stupid move or 2. I don't think you live this long with out a few personal reminders, I'm 53 now, climbing for 35 years going on 36 I guess now.

The ravens would have feasted all winter on my hanging body had I not succeeded in managing to get down.

BTW, thanks for the reminder. Glad people aren't slamming you too.


Partner oldsalt


Apr 14, 2008, 6:47 PM
Post #36 of 42 (1981 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919

Re: [billcoe_] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

billcoe_ wrote:
...The ravens would have feasted all winter on my hanging body had I not succeeded in managing to get down.

Bill reminds us of the importance of practicing self-rescue skills. I like to setup a solo top rope, stop at a random point on the route, and switch from my ascender to my ATC and rap down. There are a variety of such activities available for such practice.


rhei


Apr 14, 2008, 9:17 PM
Post #37 of 42 (1952 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 12, 2003
Posts: 71

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Broken Climber, your injury highlights the value of stopper knots in rappelling. Another point comes through in your report, too, a more general lesson. You referred to fading daylight and getting in one more line before heading home. The implication is you were making efforts to move quickly, to be efficient, expeditious. You tried to save a minute by not tying knots and not having to untie them later. So hereís a question, if youíd had one of your clients with you at the cliff top, say to demonstrate how to rig TR anchors, would you have skipped the knots before sending him down on rappel? This seems to come back to that notion of your own invincibility. You behaved differently with respect to your personal actions than I imagine what youíd have done if your clients were involved. I appreciate that you wrote a report thatís stimulated examination of my own practices. In turn, Iíll suggest you expand your analysis. When do the ethics associated with professional guiding let guides exclude themselves from the safety practices they employ with clients in the group?

Iím sorry for your injuries and I hope you mend quickly.


MonkeyInTraining


Apr 14, 2008, 10:32 PM
Post #38 of 42 (1942 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Posts: 139

Re: [rhei] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Great post Broken, I know how you feel. It will be a distant memory soon enough so hang in there.

Those deadly last runs...

In my life the last run has cost me one ACL, one MCL, 2 broken legs, 2 broken arms (of 4 total arm bones broken, 2 were not last run situations), ruptured disk near L7 vert, several broken wrists and ankles (those don't count as legs and arms to skaters and equestrians). Skateboarding, dirt jumping, and horseback ridding can be brutal, especially if you don't have complete focus. Climbing is apparently even less forgiving.

I have one simple rule at this point, if I have the thought "ok its late (or I'm tired) this will be my last run..." I pack up my shit and go, I do not ever have that thought and continue what I am doing. No more last runs for me ever again.


curt


Apr 14, 2008, 10:55 PM
Post #39 of 42 (1939 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18273

Re: [BrokenClimber] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

While I disagree that tying knots in the ends of your rappel ropes is always the best thing to do, your post was a wonderful reminder for each of us to never take anything for granted.

Curt


WVUCLMBR


Apr 15, 2008, 4:18 AM
Post #40 of 42 (1909 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 668

Re: [oldsalt] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Looks like I'm not the only fan of practice. I can often be found @ my local crag (topropers/boulderers) with my full trad rack just working on anchors/rigging/escaping belays/prussiking/any new tip from on here or tech tips. In fact I plan on doing this today to work out a couple solo TR problems I've encountered lately. Then tommorow me & the wife are going to go over multi-pitch stuff before we make the first trip of the year. Us n00bs need practice.


(This post was edited by WVUCLMBR on Apr 15, 2008, 4:19 AM)


reg


Apr 15, 2008, 5:40 AM
Post #41 of 42 (1895 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1560

Re: [WVUCLMBR] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

we all need practice, bro. - keeps ya sharp! Wink
those that think they don't either climb enough and thus get practicle everyday reviews of techniques and ability or are lookin for an epic Shocked - R


blueeyedclimber


Apr 15, 2008, 6:42 PM
Post #42 of 42 (1798 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [reg] Climber Raps Off End of Rope [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Broken,

This post should part of every guides reading material. Thanks for sharing.

Josh

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Injury Treatment and Prevention

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook