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jungle_george
May 7, 2008, 1:44 PM
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Monday I was self belaying w/a Gri-Gri and clove backup to my leg loop. Doing laps on a hand crack with a 30 lb pack on, got tired after a few laps and popped out with about 4 ft. of slack in the system.
The Gri-Gri caught me no prob, but when it caught I heard a loud "SNAP". Looked down and saw my belay loop was ripped about 1/5 of the way through. I'm not sure how this happened exactly, but I can think of a number of ways. I'm not looking for reasons this happened.
Here's what I need advice on: I've kind of turned into a cheap-o as of late (i.e. don't want a new harness), and am looking for ways to back up the belay loop that aren't bulky. I'm thinking about a loop of 9/16" webbing tied with a water knot.
To keep the ends of the water knot from creeping I don't want to tie df knots as they're way too bulky. I was thinking about pulling out the sewing machine and putting in a bar tack on each end with a super fine needle that won't cut the webbing threads.
So the water knot would keep the webbing loop tied, but the bar tacks would just keep the ends from creeping toward the knot.
So I would have 2 belay loops on my harness, the semi-torn one and this backup. Bad idea, good idea, what?
I've also thought about using a loop of Titan cord tied with a tf, but they don't sell that stuff around here, I don't want to spend more money, and I've already got spare 9/16" webbing.
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nh_ranger
May 7, 2008, 1:52 PM
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How much is your life worth to you?
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lena_chita
Moderator
May 7, 2008, 1:57 PM
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Trolls don't value their life-- it takes brains to think about concept of "value".
Or maybe trolls have 9 lives, like cats?
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shoo
May 7, 2008, 1:59 PM
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Get a new harness. Don't cheap out.
If the belay loop of your harness was weak, what else on the harness might be weak? You likely can't trust anything else on your harness, including the attachment points on the waist belt and leg loops. Seriously, get a new harness.
If you MUST be cheap. . .
The bulkiness of the knot is going to cause it to wear much more quickly than anything else on your harness. The know will likely cause the webbing to move in the same repeated pattern over and over as you move. Belay loops are made to be really beefy so this is less of an issue. 9/16 webbing isn't nearly as tough.
Alternatively, you could try one of these:
http://en.petzl.com/...Produits?Produit=557
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MikeSaint
May 7, 2008, 2:00 PM
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jungle_george wrote: Monday I was self belaying w/a Gri-Gri and clove backup to my leg loop. Doing laps on a hand crack with a 30 lb pack on, got tired after a few laps and popped out with about 4 ft. of slack in the system. The Gri-Gri caught me no prob, but when it caught I heard a loud "SNAP". Looked down and saw my belay loop was ripped about 1/5 of the way through. I'm not sure how this happened exactly, but I can think of a number of ways. I'm not looking for reasons this happened. Here's what I need advice on: I've kind of turned into a cheap-o as of late (i.e. don't want a new harness), and am looking for ways to back up the belay loop that aren't bulky. I'm thinking about a loop of 9/16" webbing tied with a water knot. To keep the ends of the water knot from creeping I don't want to tie df knots as they're way too bulky. I was thinking about pulling out the sewing machine and putting in a bar tack on each end with a super fine needle that won't cut the webbing threads. So the water knot would keep the webbing loop tied, but the bar tacks would just keep the ends from creeping toward the knot. So I would have 2 belay loops on my harness, the semi-torn one and this backup. Bad idea, good idea, what? I've also thought about using a loop of Titan cord tied with a tf, but they don't sell that stuff around here, I don't want to spend more money, and I've already got spare 9/16" webbing.
Jungle George, can you provide the make and model of the harness? Pictures would be even better. You need to retire the harness and maybe even send it to the manufacturer (they'll probably send a new one). Interesting that this happen, as belay loops are the strongest component of a harness, or you're a troll.
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angry
May 7, 2008, 2:01 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Trolls don't value their life-- it takes brains to think about concept of "value". Or maybe trolls have 9 lives, like cats?
Trolls can also bartack with a sewing machine it seems.
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sjderis
May 7, 2008, 2:05 PM
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It still blows me away that peoples lives are not worth the 60 dollars it costs for a new harness. Did you not learn anything from the belay failure on Leaning Tower that cost the climbing community in Yosemite. You might want to stick to something that wont kill your foolish ass like bocce ball...Just a thought.
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jungle_george
May 7, 2008, 2:09 PM
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No, believe it or not I'm not a troll. I'm at work right now, but I'll try and get a picture up tonight. Not sure how to do that exactly, but I'll try and figure it out...
It's a metolius safe-tech roughly 3 years old. This has been a bad ass harness and I've loved the crap out of it. Not the manufacturers fault.
I think the reason it ripped is the steel autolocking biner from my gym has a little square post that the locking portion rotates onto. My guess is the belay loop worked itself in between this cover and post when I was climbing and it was slack, so when I fell it ripped out.
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tigerlilly
May 7, 2008, 2:20 PM
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Don't be penny-wise and pound foolish. Maybe Metolius could replace the belay loop, but if not, treat yourself to a new harness. Oh, and I'd ditch the biner that cut the belay loop, too. Next time, it might cut more than 1/5th of the way through, or the rip may keep on ripping...
Kathy
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reg
May 7, 2008, 2:24 PM
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jungle_george wrote: No, believe it or not I'm not a troll.
hey jungle jim.....i mean george....u might be to young for this one:
"I am not a crook!"....then there's the timeless classic:
" I did not have sex with that woman..."
i actually suggested that once to a mentor - hand-tieing a loop of tape on my alpine bod - after he was done, i was lucky to have walked away!
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MikeSaint
May 7, 2008, 2:27 PM
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jungle_george wrote: No, believe it or not I'm not a troll. I'm at work right now, but I'll try and get a picture up tonight. Not sure how to do that exactly, but I'll try and figure it out... It's a metolius safe-tech roughly 3 years old. This has been a bad ass harness and I've loved the crap out of it. Not the manufacturers fault. I think the reason it ripped is the steel autolocking biner from my gym has a little square post that the locking portion rotates onto. My guess is the belay loop worked itself in between this cover and post when I was climbing and it was slack, so when I fell it ripped out.
Alright man cool. Try and get some pictures up and also try to contact Metolius. They would be interested in hearing about it especially being the Safe Tech design.
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j_ung
May 7, 2008, 2:32 PM
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Sounds like your biner's lock caught the belay loop. I've had the exact same thing happen before. I replaced the harness.
HOWEVER, I also understand cheapness. Your idea of backing up the belay loop with webbing will work just fine as a short-term fix, with a few cautionary points:
1. Why not just use 1" tubular? It's not that much more bulky and you can probably measure it out so it fits inside your belay loop, out for the way.
2. Forget back-up knots on the webbing and forget bartacking, too. Instead, keep the tails a little long, and cinch the knot down so the loop pinches around the loose ends.
3. Bounce test the loop to set the knot and make sure it won't untie under cyclical loading.
4. Check the webbing and your harness tie-in points before and after every use.
Good to go, but even so, recognize this isn't a good long-term solution, as I suspect it'll increase the rate of wear on your harness (not to mention the webbing).
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j_ung
May 7, 2008, 2:35 PM
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Hey, I thought of one other thing. If it's a Metolius Safe-tech, just start clipping in to a gear loop.  
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binrat
May 7, 2008, 2:36 PM
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Sure, go ahead, use it.. trust me buddy........
Oh by the way can you change your insurance policy and will to include me for all your worldy values
Don't be cheap and replace the thing
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corson
May 7, 2008, 2:40 PM
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jungle_george wrote: Monday I was self belaying w/a Gri-Gri and clove backup to my leg loop. Doing laps on a hand crack with a 30 lb pack on, got tired after a few laps and popped out with about 4 ft. of slack in the system. The Gri-Gri caught me no prob, but when it caught I heard a loud "SNAP". Looked down and saw my belay loop was ripped about 1/5 of the way through. I'm not sure how this happened exactly, but I can think of a number of ways. I'm not looking for reasons this happened. Here's what I need advice on: I've kind of turned into a cheap-o as of late (i.e. don't want a new harness), and am looking for ways to back up the belay loop that aren't bulky. I'm thinking about a loop of 9/16" webbing tied with a water knot. To keep the ends of the water knot from creeping I don't want to tie df knots as they're way too bulky. I was thinking about pulling out the sewing machine and putting in a bar tack on each end with a super fine needle that won't cut the webbing threads. So the water knot would keep the webbing loop tied, but the bar tacks would just keep the ends from creeping toward the knot. So I would have 2 belay loops on my harness, the semi-torn one and this backup. Bad idea, good idea, what? I've also thought about using a loop of Titan cord tied with a tf, but they don't sell that stuff around here, I don't want to spend more money, and I've already got spare 9/16" webbing.
If you are actually not a troll.......
.......the fact that you even need to ask this question at all, let alone publicly,makes me think that,
you are either very lonley,
or a dumbass.
I hope your not a dumbass.
Get a new harness!
C
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angry
May 7, 2008, 2:54 PM
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I bought a new harness the other day. It's a Petzl. It seems like they've gone the path of metolius scare tactics and want you to rap off their gear loops too. It's the same old plastic gear loops with what appears to be tubular webbing slid over them.
Seriously, how many effing people rap off their fucking gear loops? Could reverting back to normal harnesses fix the problem of overcrowded crags?
FWIW, 12 years ago I stopped by "Troll" (really, it's a british harness company made in Laramie, WY mostly firefighter stuff though) and their harnesses even then had strong gear loops. So um, it's nothing new.
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jungle_george
May 7, 2008, 2:57 PM
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Thanks for the advice, j_ung. That's what I'll do short term, and meanwhile keep my eye out for a deal over the next few months. I'll just check it for abnormal wear after each use.
This is the advice/confirmation I was looking for. Many thanks!
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angry
May 7, 2008, 2:57 PM
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A few years ago I was in Moab and I went to put on my favorite harness. It was really old and tatty by then but I thought it was ok. I went to put it on and I noticed the webbing that goes across the buckle was probably less than half it's thickness, so that's pretty dangerous.
I sucked in my gut, pulled the harness tight past that spot and replaced the harness when I got home. I've never been quite as happy with a harness since.
Petzl, bring back the Jump you dumb french fuckers!!
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coastal_climber
May 7, 2008, 4:14 PM
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jungle_george wrote: Thanks for the advice, j_ung. That's what I'll do short term, and meanwhile keep my eye out for a deal over the next few months. I'll just check it for abnormal wear after each use. This is the advice/confirmation I was looking for. Many thanks!
Can you still post some pictures?
>Cam
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jungle_george
May 7, 2008, 4:25 PM
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Sure - I'll take some pics tonight. I don't have internet at home (too much $$$), so I'll try and figure out how to post them tomorrow morning sometime.
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Sin
May 7, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Maybe you could use dental floss to back-up that up, hey it'll produce the same result..... . Dude there was a story about a guy whos belay loop was old an frayed, He ordered 2-3 harnesses ( I forgot how many he purchased), but decided to climb with his f'ed up harness, cause the ones he ordered were coming in, a week later. To keep things short, the guys belay loop or something failed and he died...........Guess its up to you.
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crazyscuba
May 7, 2008, 4:46 PM
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Hey Angry, Petzl put fabric over the gear loops so that gear doesn't slide around as much on it. They are by no means designed to hold weight and Petzl doesn't say that anywhere. Not sure where you got that idea.
Don't count on the Jump ever making a comeback. It was a sweet harness for it's time though. That made me smile a little. Thanks.
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gogounou
May 7, 2008, 5:06 PM
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I, too, understand that sometimes it's good to be cheap, but this is not one of those times. For the sake of the $50, $60 or even $100, replace the harness.
Just my opinion...
J
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tigerlilly
May 7, 2008, 6:07 PM
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As far as "backing up" the belay loop, consider that the strength of the belay loop is signicantly reduced now that it is cut. The remaining strength is going to be much less than the 4/5 width remaining would let you believe. A cut will focus the stress on a small point, and that sucker will almost certainly fail at a lot less than 4/5 the original strength. Think about a piece of old t-shirt you might be trying to tear into smaller pieces for rags in your workshop. If you just try to rip it, you get nowhere. So, you bite the edge of it with your teeth (don't tell your dentist) or snip the edge with something sharp. All of a sudden it tears like paper. Your notched belay loop will do much the same thing.
We really don't want to read about you in ANAM.
Kathy
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jungle_george
May 7, 2008, 6:21 PM
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Went home over lunch - took 2 crappy pics with my cell phone. You should be able to see what I'm talking about at least...
I've decided to back the belay loop up for the short term, and start looking around for a deal on a new harness.
Do any of you guys know if Yates still re-slings gear, or if they'll do soft goods? I guess I could call them myself.
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