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figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 5:41 AM
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Awesome new training tool!
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check out the video;

http://www.vimeo.com/1148463

train for ice/mixed/dry tooling on any indoor wall!
Its the future, what do you think?


Partner j_ung


Jun 12, 2008, 5:45 AM
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I think I can't view your video without registering.


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 6:04 AM
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oops, was set up as a private video, should be good to go now!


sidepull


Jun 12, 2008, 6:39 AM
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Pretty cool, although it helps your credibility when your first post isn't to promote your own product and your own review (Awesome new !) is a bit less info-mercially.Wink


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 6:56 AM
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fair enough, i'm actually uk based which is why i'm new to the site, and as for the title i'm just really excited about the project! t'was enthusiasm rather than shameless self promotion!


jp_sucks


Jun 12, 2008, 8:27 AM
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Does look like it could be a good training tool. I could stop trashing my holds with my tools. What does it sell for?


Partner j_ung


Jun 12, 2008, 8:29 AM
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Great idea! If I were an icey-mixey climber, I think I'd be all over that.


sidepull


Jun 12, 2008, 8:41 AM
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figfour wrote:
t'was enthusiasm rather than shameless self promotion!

hence the wink!Wink


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 8:42 AM
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it doesn't sell... yet! Wink but i reckon they'd retail around $150 a pair if they were. It was my honors uni project this year, but i'm keen to develop it further if there's anyone out there interested! just trying to get it out there and get a better idea of whether people are into the idea!


sungam


Jun 12, 2008, 9:50 AM
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figfour wrote:
it doesn't sell... yet! Wink but i reckon they'd retail around $150 a pair if they were. It was my honors uni project this year, but i'm keen to develop it further if there's anyone out there interested! just trying to get it out there and get a better idea of whether people are into the idea!
Did I spy Birnam????


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 9:58 AM
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yes indeed, good spot!


sungam


Jun 12, 2008, 10:20 AM
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figfour wrote:
yes indeed, good spot!
Bwahahahahaha.
That was a good one. ;P
I reckon tunnel wall is a much better DT spot.


Partner angry


Jun 12, 2008, 10:23 AM
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It would make for a great training tool.

It would be a good way to experience the pump of mixed without damage to the holds.

However, the flexible webbing top would limit you in the type of routes you could climb. A pick can stay on the smallest little edge, or go into a pocket. These would have to be relegated to only juggy holds.

The wicked pump that they could provide should be similar enough to dry-tooling that it would still be better than nothing. Also, I think most gyms would allow these and most gyms wouldn't allow a regular ice tool.

I might head into the woodshop and see what I can come up with.


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 10:34 AM
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ha ha, you'd be surprised how well they work on small holds, is not just webbing in there... but i'm not going to give away the secret! Using sloping or small holds is a great way to work on the hand/arm stability and core strength needed to stick your pick to small edges and move around your tools, and in practice figfour feels almost exactly the same, but you are right, the most fun to be had is improving power/power endurance by cranking big moves on jugs and endurance circuity missions! grr.


roy_hinkley_jr


Jun 12, 2008, 10:37 AM
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figfour wrote:
i reckon they'd retail around $150 a pair.

For that price, a climber can get a pretty good collection of holds made for drytooling and just use their normal tools. If you can get under $100 a pair, they'd be more viable. Good luck.


figfour


Jun 12, 2008, 10:43 AM
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true, but only if you already have a woody, and how long will your holds last? not long in my experience, but guess i'm not the most gentle of climbers!

The tools were designed to allow users to train for mixed more effectively using their local gym, which is where most people do the majority of their training, and eliminate the need for a dedicated dry tooling facilities which are pretty rare in this country and limited in size where they do exist.


Partner angry


Jun 12, 2008, 10:44 AM
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figfour wrote:
is not just webbing in there... but i'm not going to give away the secret! Using sloping or small holds is a great way to work on the hand/arm stability and core strength needed to stick your pick to small edges and move around your tools, and in practice figfour feels almost exactly the same, but you are right, the most fun to be had is improving power/power endurance by cranking big moves on jugs and endurance circuity missions! grr.

I know your secrets, I'm not going to give you away, don't worry.


qqac


Jun 12, 2008, 11:18 AM
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My guess is that you attached a strip of sticky rubber underneath the webbing loop. If used on small holds, does this allow you to approximate the use of tools in difficult ice and mixed, where maintaining the orientation of the ice tools can be critical? The video looks like a lot of hanging and swinging about--good for a pumpy, fun romp up the wall, but not so good for practicing delicate moves. I say USD$40 each or $75 for a pair, with replaceable loops for $15.


hafilax


Jun 12, 2008, 12:27 PM
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Don't they sell plastic picks that do less damage for use indoors?


Partner neuroshock


Jun 12, 2008, 1:35 PM
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I believe that Grivel used to make a training pick but I can't find any reference to it on their website anymore.


figfour


Jun 13, 2008, 3:18 AM
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nope, no rubber, guess again!

the video was shot to engage with and communicate the use of the tools to a non climbing audience ie. my tutors at uni, hence big moves on jugs and lots of fig fours etc. The tools do allow much more technical climbing style when you use small, slopey and sketchy holds as the angle of loading has to be kept the same, and due to the flexibility of the webbing maintaining the load is actually more critical than with tools!

The price was based on calculations assuming small scale batch production, and could be lowered if I was able to license the design to a manufacturer as it would easily adapt to mass manufacturing techniques allowing scaled up production... good to learn what level people would be willing to invest at though, cheers!


jmvc


Jun 13, 2008, 4:05 AM
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And a new race is born.. Gym mixed climbers?


figfour


Jun 13, 2008, 5:09 AM
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welcome to the future!


Partner angry


Jun 13, 2008, 6:41 AM
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figfour wrote:
welcome to the future!

I want a flying car!!!!


figfour


Jun 13, 2008, 6:47 AM
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indoor tooling first, then i'm gonna start work on flying car projects as soon as this is in production!


Partner angry


Jun 13, 2008, 6:53 AM
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You need a seriously bitching name for this.

I'm thinking HOMO WOOD

Honorable Off Mountain Or Wall Overload and Occlusion Device

What do you think?


anykineclimb


Jun 13, 2008, 7:20 AM
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angry wrote:
You need a seriously bitching name for this.

I'm thinking HOMO WOOD

Honorable Off Mountain Or Wall Overload and Occlusion Device

What do you think?

BWAHAHAHAHA

awesome john.

For $150 you can get some holds on eBay to tear up. Although important, grip strength isn't the most important factor for drytooling training.
Its learning to stay on the hold; keeping your picks "quiet"


dta95b7r


Jun 13, 2008, 8:25 AM
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I could make a pair of those in about 10 minutes... 150$ thats crazy talk


Partner angry


Nov 10, 2008, 5:52 PM
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I spent the afternoon on these.

I think it's the most fun I've ever had at a climbing gym.

A couple random issues.

-I was leading everything and the falls were very dramatic, I'd go cartwheeling backwards flying off the wall. You need to be absolutely certain your belayer knows how to give you a soft catch and you should probably only lead on the very overhanging parts. You could jack yourself up on the vertical with the way falls spin you upside down.

-These only work on holds you can get the loop around. A 5.12 with a bunch of little incut chips is more doable than a 5.9 jughaul. The ideal holds are horn type of holds.


Getting from one thing the tool will stick on to the next can be a real challenge. It's a fantastic way to practice fig 4's and fig 9's as well as some really funky stuff. I don't know if it'll help dry tooling but I'm definitely using them again.


michael_c


Nov 10, 2008, 6:30 PM
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Sweet idea, very simplistic but hadn't been thought of.

I'd imagine there is some stiff cable being passed through the tube webbing to give a small "edge" you can catch on small holds, it also keeps the loop upright to allow you to snag the next hold.

I'd imagine the webbing is also acting like a protector to protect the holds from the metal cable and providing some extra friction between the hold and the cable more so than giving an holding strength

I'm assuming the metal head at the top of the handle is allowing you to swap out cable and secures the webbing to stop it from slipping up the cable. You could probably even you a standard cable fixing from a balustrade or something similar to do the job.

I'd say $150 is over priced. You could probably manufacture those things pretty cheap and quickly.


Partner angry


Nov 10, 2008, 7:44 PM
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I didn't use a metal cable, I used several layers of duct tape and covered it in athletic tape. It was pretty stiff but I'm on the drawing board for a new material that keeps it's shape.

I think that a strip on 2mm climbing rubber glued to the webbing would work perfect but a 2mmX1"X2' would be really hard to come by. I'll poke around the hardware store tomorrow.

Also, I'm using a handmade copy of what's in the video. Total cost is about $10 and once I figure out exactly what I want to do with the webbing I could easily crank out 10 or 12 a day.

I'm not selling them, but yeah, $150 for these is crazy talk.


chossmonkey


Nov 11, 2008, 5:05 AM
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figfour wrote:
it doesn't sell... yet! Wink but i reckon they'd retail around $150 a pair if they were. It was my honors uni project this year, but i'm keen to develop it further if there's anyone out there interested! just trying to get it out there and get a better idea of whether people are into the idea!
Cool idea but $150 would be to steep for me to justify it.


yodadave


Nov 11, 2008, 3:13 PM
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seems like it would be easy to stay on holds, little chance of popping off. Does look really fun though I already have designs running through my head.
One alternative for gym tooling is this plastic coating stuff you can get that you can just dip your picks in. Its used for coating tool handles

https://www.hardwareworld.com/Plastic-Dip-145-ounce-Blue-pC443B6.aspx

no earthly idea how to embed the link, sorry.
it works good easpecially on old duller picks

Getting it off your picks can be tricky but doable


Partner angry


Nov 11, 2008, 3:24 PM
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Well, first off, I didn't come up with this idea. Fig4 did. I saw his design and built some for myself.

What I liked about these is that the gym would let me use them. Plastic picks, plastic coated picks, regular picks, most gyms won't allow them to be used, liability wise for good reason.

I would definitely get more out of a training session on real tools, but these are pretty good especially because I'm actually allowed to use them.


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