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cracklover
Jun 26, 2008, 4:17 PM
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This thread just keeps getting sillier...
spacemonkey07 wrote: My climbing partner ties his figure 8 also in his belay loop. Reasons? - less wear on the harness. (leg loops are the first to wear, long before the belay loop does)
Nonsense.
Unless he's got a different harness than I've ever seen, he's using it improperly, and will wear out the belay loop before its time.
The tie-in point has extra nylon added by the manufacturer specifically to deal with the nylon-on-nylon friction. The belay loop is not designed for this friction.
GO
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gunkiemike
Jun 26, 2008, 4:24 PM
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bigwhitej wrote: It really should not be problem except that the belay loop is not rated for a dynamic fall. It is really only for static weight.
OMG !!!!!!!!
Quick, somebody tell that to Petzl, BD, Misty Mtn, Singing Rock, Arcteryx etc. This is important new insight into harness construction and use.
And Majid. Definitely let Majid know.
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mojomonkey
Jun 26, 2008, 5:09 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: bigwhitej wrote: It really should not be problem except that the belay loop is not rated for a dynamic fall. It is really only for static weight. OMG !!!!!!!! Quick, somebody tell that to Petzl, BD, Misty Mtn, Singing Rock, Arcteryx etc. This is important new insight into harness construction and use. And Majid. Definitely let Majid know.
That is why I only ever take static falls and refuse to belay anyone who doesn't.
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IclimbNAKED
Jun 28, 2008, 2:27 AM
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spacemonkey07 wrote: My climbing partner ties his figure 8 also in his belay loop. Reasons? - less wear on the harness. (leg loops are the first to wear, long before the belay loop does) - he doesn't want a big chunky knot close to his body, he likes it floating around more - a lot of people start discussions with him why he does this, you know, the 'one more link to break in the chain of links which have to save your life in case of a dynamic fall
a) Quite wrong. If you were to give your harness a quick going-over, you would notice that your hard-points where the belay loop threads are much more reinforced in comparison with the belay loop itself.
b) Why in the hell would you want your knot to float around? If you were to take a violent fall, your knot may snap up and whack you in the lower abdomen. How appetizing does that sound to suddenly get knot-punched? I personally would want my knot as close to me as possible so that I'm not in any danger of getting owned by it, and I can cup it easily to trace my rope properly so I avoid backclips or z-clips.
c) ...it is another link to break, though. Think redundancy of systems: if the belay loop fails then you will probably be unbelievably and dangerously screwed if you're taking a high fall. Whereas when you're tied in to your hard-points, if one fails for some freak reason, you still have the other one that you can hope will last you until you can downclimb to safety or be lowered down.
(This post was edited by IclimbNAKED on Jun 28, 2008, 3:04 AM)
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sungam
Jun 28, 2008, 4:07 PM
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spacemonkey07 wrote: - less wear on the harness. (leg loops are the first to wear, long before the belay loop does)
Todd skinner- belay loop fail :(
Joe davidson- clipped into belay device with a full twist in his harness during a clusterfuck and the resulting friction trashed a bunch of shit (not recommended) luckily his swarmi and belay loop (mostly) survived and he completed the rap
That chick at the start of cliffhanger- ????
Belay loop is not all the friction resisitant as said before. You friend is wasting money by the second.
spacemonkey07 wrote: - he doesn't want a big chunky knot close to his body, he likes it floating around more
spacemonkey07 wrote: big chunky knot close to his body
spacemonkey07 wrote: - a lot of people start discussions with him why he does this, you know, the 'one more link to break in the chain of links which have to save your life in case of a dynamic fall
I hereby give you the grand title of twat.
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time2clmb
Jun 28, 2008, 4:48 PM
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spacemonkey07 wrote: My climbing partner ties his figure 8 also in his belay loop. Reasons? - less wear on the harness. (leg loops are the first to wear, long before the belay loop does) - he doesn't want a big chunky knot close to his body, he likes it floating around more - a lot of people start discussions with him why he does this, you know, the 'one more link to break in the chain of links which have to save your life in case of a dynamic fall
I love it when people talk out of their ass. It makes for good entertainment. Your friend is an idiot.
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anykineclimb
Jun 28, 2008, 7:26 PM
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This place is great...
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jt512
Jun 28, 2008, 8:11 PM
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spacemonkey07 wrote: My climbing partner ties his figure 8 also in his belay loop. Reasons? - less wear on the harness. (leg loops are the first to wear, long before the belay loop does)
Your partner is a moron, and if you don't understand why, then you are, as well.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 8, 2009, 12:03 AM)
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jt512
Jun 28, 2008, 8:21 PM
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sungam wrote: Learn to bowline, then. spacemonkey07 wrote: - a lot of people start discussions with him why he does this, you know, the 'one more link to break in the chain of links which have to save your life in case of a dynamic fall This sentence just doesn't make sense.
And "Learn to bowline" does?
Jay
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stymingersfink
Jun 28, 2008, 8:37 PM
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sungam wrote: This sentence just doesn't make sense.
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sungam
Jun 28, 2008, 9:46 PM
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jt512 wrote: sungam wrote: Learn to bowline, then. spacemonkey07 wrote: - a lot of people start discussions with him why he does this, you know, the 'one more link to break in the chain of links which have to save your life in case of a dynamic fall This sentence just doesn't make sense. And "Learn to bowline" does? Jay
Iz lezz chunkzie then teh fig 8
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sungam
Jun 28, 2008, 10:44 PM
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Come on. Somone respond to me. I was having fun in this thread.
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MikeSaint
Jun 28, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Less jibberjabber more photo bombing.
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IclimbNAKED
Jun 29, 2008, 12:25 AM
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Well, that's a perfectly acceptable solution. I thought you made perfect sense when you said learn to bowline, it seems implicit that if there is only one thing named the bowline involved in climbing, then learning to tie such a knot is to "learn to bowline."
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stymingersfink
Jun 29, 2008, 1:10 AM
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IclimbNAKED wrote: Well, that's a perfectly acceptable solution. I thought you made perfect sense when you said learn to bowline, it seems implicit that if there is only one thing named the bowline involved in climbing, then learning to tie such a knot is to "learn to bowline."
the bowline is not some kind of line-dance that one can learn the moves to.
it is a basic knot, the basis of which other knots may also be tied... a specific technique of rope usage if you will. You may learn to tie it, you may learn when its use is appropriate, however you will never "learn to bowline".
Nor will you ever learn to figure eight, alpine butterfly, grapevine or bight.
educate yourself before you spread your idiocy to other nboobs.
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limeydave
Jun 29, 2008, 1:11 AM
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Meh.
We used to tie in with a biner to the belay loop all the time back in the day.
I don't remember anyone ever having an issue.
'Course the followthru fig 8 through the leg and waist loops adds a little redundancy, saves a biner and also has never been a significant cause of injuries that weren't pilot error either.
One thing that has been around since the inception of climbing though: Safety Snobs. Yeah, they way you know is the right way, and everyone else is dangerous.
They should make a bud light commercial highlighting that "We salute YOU, Mr My Way is the only way you won't die, climber"
Edit: Not aimed at you naked dude...
(This post was edited by limeydave on Jun 29, 2008, 1:12 AM)
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IclimbNAKED
Jun 29, 2008, 1:31 AM
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stymingersfink wrote: the bowline is not some kind of line-dance that one can learn the moves to. it is a basic knot, the basis of which other knots may also be tied... a specific technique of rope usage if you will. You may learn to tie it, you may learn when its use is appropriate, however you will never "learn to bowline".
Ah yes, I forgot that the usage of colloquialisms on internet forums is strictly taboo... I acknowledge that the exact nature of what "learning to bowline" truly entails is hazy at best; yet, we're on an internet forum so forgive me for not being overly proper- and it seems rather evident that to learn to bowline is to learn to tie the knot. The appropriate usage of the knot can only be understood when many factors such as the knot's strength, efficiency and the ease with which the knot may be inspected for correctness are taken into account.
You are no doubt going to attack me for what I've said here. I've no interest in getting to an e-pissing contest with you, though.
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stymingersfink
Jun 29, 2008, 2:00 AM
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IclimbNAKED wrote: stymingersfink wrote: the bowline is not some kind of line-dance that one can learn the moves to. it is a basic knot, the basis of which other knots may also be tied... a specific technique of rope usage if you will. You may learn to tie it, you may learn when its use is appropriate, however you will never "learn to bowline". Ah yes, I forgot that the usage of colloquialisms on internet forums is strictly taboo... I acknowledge that the exact nature of what "learning to bowline" truly entails is hazy at best; yet, we're on an internet forum so forgive me for not being overly proper- and it seems rather evident that to learn to bowline is to learn to tie the knot. The appropriate usage of the knot can only be understood when many factors such as the knot's strength, efficiency and the ease with which the knot may be inspected for correctness are taken into account. You are no doubt going to attack me for what I've said here. I've no interest in getting to an e-pissing contest with you, though.
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jt512
Jun 29, 2008, 2:00 AM
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IclimbNAKED wrote: Well, that's a perfectly acceptable solution. I thought you made perfect sense when you said learn to bowline, it seems implicit that if there is only one thing named the bowline involved in climbing, then learning to tie such a knot is to "learn to bowline."
Except that isn't how English works. "Learn to bowline" no more means "learn to tie a bowline" than "learn to shoe" means "learn to put on a shoe", or "learn to car" means "learn to drive."
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 29, 2008, 3:08 AM)
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knieveltech
Jun 29, 2008, 2:45 AM
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shoo wrote: Let's all get a little realistic here. Steel biners are ridiculously strong. Minor axis strength, usually the weakest, is usually above or around 10kn. You aren't going to go even close to the breaking strength of one of those pretty much no matter how hard you try in a gym. You aren't. It's far faster to clip some guy in with a 'biner than it is to tie someone in properly. Slightly, less safe, granted, but far faster when you're dealing with large quantities of people. I'm in the all-gyms-which-clip-you-in-with-'biner--instead-of-using-a-proper-knot-and-require-you-to-use-a-grigri-to-belay-because-it's-"safer"-so-you-don't-learn-how-to-properly-belay-or-tie-an-f'ing-knot-for-the-life-of-you-should-f***-off-and-die camp as much as the next guy. But seriously. It isn't going to break.
Yeah, you'd think that this would be a great idea and really convenient...until you meet a climber from Texas that broke their back lowering off of a gym route. Belay strand encountered the gate of the autolocker and somehow managed to roll it open. Fun.
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sungam
Jun 29, 2008, 8:15 AM
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jt512 wrote: IclimbNAKED wrote: Well, that's a perfectly acceptable solution. I thought you made perfect sense when you said learn to bowline, it seems implicit that if there is only one thing named the bowline involved in climbing, then learning to tie such a knot is to "learn to bowline." Except that isn't how English works. "Learn to bowline" no more means "learn to tie a bowline" than "learn to shoe" means "learn to put on a shoe", or "learn to car" means "learn to drive." Jay
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sungam
Jun 29, 2008, 9:58 AM
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limeydave wrote: Meh. We used to tie in with a biner to the belay loop all the time back in the day. I don't remember anyone ever having an issue. 'Course the followthru fig 8 through the leg and waist loops adds a little redundancy, saves a biner and also has never been a significant cause of injuries that weren't pilot error either. One thing that has been around since the inception of climbing though: Safety Snobs. Yeah, they way you know is the right way, and everyone else is dangerous. They should make a bud light commercial highlighting that "We salute YOU, Mr My Way is the only way you won't die, climber" Edit: Not aimed at you naked dude...
And your bud advert is lame.
Go away.
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limeydave
Jun 29, 2008, 11:34 AM
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sungam wrote: limeydave wrote: Meh. We used to tie in with a biner to the belay loop all the time back in the day. I don't remember anyone ever having an issue. 'Course the followthru fig 8 through the leg and waist loops adds a little redundancy, saves a biner and also has never been a significant cause of injuries that weren't pilot error either. One thing that has been around since the inception of climbing though: Safety Snobs. Yeah, they way you know is the right way, and everyone else is dangerous. They should make a bud light commercial highlighting that "We salute YOU, Mr My Way is the only way you won't die, climber" Edit: Not aimed at you naked dude... You are te_h ghey. And your bud advert is lame. Go away.
I think we need a Hadrians Wall for the internet.
Stop the drunk Scots from spilling over into civilization.
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sungam
Jun 29, 2008, 11:46 AM
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limeydave wrote: sungam wrote: limeydave wrote: Meh. We used to tie in with a biner to the belay loop all the time back in the day. I don't remember anyone ever having an issue. 'Course the followthru fig 8 through the leg and waist loops adds a little redundancy, saves a biner and also has never been a significant cause of injuries that weren't pilot error either. One thing that has been around since the inception of climbing though: Safety Snobs. Yeah, they way you know is the right way, and everyone else is dangerous. They should make a bud light commercial highlighting that "We salute YOU, Mr My Way is the only way you won't die, climber" Edit: Not aimed at you naked dude... You are te_h ghey. And your bud advert is lame. Go away. I think we need a Hadrians Wall for the internet. Stop the drunk Scots from spilling over into civilization.
Also, everyone knows that the scot's just let hadrians wall be.
it was a "you stay your side of the wall and not enter scotland, and we'll pretend that puny wall could stop US."
Ain't sympathy a bitch?
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