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xtrmecat
Jun 27, 2008, 3:04 PM
Post #51 of 112
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No, semantics not aside. They do not set the bolts. If that were the case they would just roll off the face.If they did not roll off the face they would be on a stance(ledge), and this is not where bolts go, they go above the stance, to provide protection from decking on said stance. They install, which includes decisions on placement,( very involved stuff), drilling, cleaning the hole, and finally installation of the bolt /hanger, and then tightening. If you set a route you just move the hold to where you think it may go and then put pro to wherever the next reach is.
Not even close. Now I cannot resist this.
"Sport climbing is neither."
Bob
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 27, 2008, 3:13 PM
Post #52 of 112
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brutusofwyde wrote: ....good stuff...yata yata Brutus
As usual Brutus comes in with an excellent answer that should have effectively ended the thread, but people continue to argue and rant about it for pages and pages.
I love rc.com!!
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dingus
Jun 27, 2008, 3:16 PM
Post #53 of 112
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Well yeah but bitching about bolt spacing and FA ego and what have you is one of the most reliable trolls out there. Some folks are being sport-fished here tis all.
Cheers
DMT
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jrathfon
Jun 27, 2008, 3:59 PM
Post #54 of 112
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Addressing the crux moves off the ground:
We have a few routes in my neck of the woods, where the first bolt is about 10-12 ft off the ground. You can clip them right before moving through a crux or almost-crux move (10c), the bolt being by your waste or toes. Then you move into easier ground (8-9) and the 2nd bolt, which is essentially another first bolt, is about 20 feet off the ground. There's no doubt about it, you don't slip between those bolts, cause it's plain to see you'll deck. But, you are protected at moves around the limit of the climb, while passing that first bolt.
Cro-magnon at Crow Hill is a good example of this. Boulder about 12 ft, you may want a pad cause of nice angular rocks, then clip a bolt, do some hard moves, and move up into a crack, all hard moves, where you can get your first piece, the rest is pro. If you slip before getting your first piece, you'll probably deck, and they are challenging moves, just not cruxish moves like through the bolt, and higher on the route in flaring, semi-overhanging off-width.
(This post was edited by jrathfon on Jun 27, 2008, 4:00 PM)
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knieveltech
Jun 27, 2008, 4:24 PM
Post #55 of 112
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MikeSaint wrote: Bigwhitej, Climbing outside is scary. Sometimes, using a dictionary is scary. With that said it may be best to find a local gym and stay inside for training. It might be best that you stay inside and let others figure out the bolting issues. Anyone going to welcome Bigwhitej to RC.c0m?
Got it covered.
bigwhitej wrote: Just trying to keep sport climbing as safe as possible so we can continue clibing for years to come.
STFU NOOB!!!
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knieveltech
Jun 27, 2008, 4:31 PM
Post #56 of 112
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bigwhitej wrote: In reply to: Climbing outside is scary. Sometimes, using a dictionary is scary. With that said it may be best to find a local gym and stay inside for training. It might be best that you stay inside and let others figure out the bolting issues. Yah Did you not read the whole thing? Its not that it is scary> It is that if you slip or make a mistake. Oh well you may say "What if this, what if that" Welll the fact is that it is ridiculous that some people think it is safer to Free Climb to the first bolt then put the bolt closer to the ground and place the other bolts close enough to each other that you will not hit the ground on a fall. Like some one else wrote why is it that all the really hard wrotes are all bolted to the tits so to speak. Why is it that you dont put really high bolts on a 5.13..... It seems that only up to 5.10 or so that has high first why not on the harder routes......Are you hard asses trying to scare off the people just trying to learn to climb and learning how to lead. It just seams that climbing has turned into an ego sport!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out.
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getout87
Jun 27, 2008, 4:32 PM
Post #57 of 112
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xtrmecat wrote: No, semantics not aside. They do not set the bolts. If that were the case they would just roll off the face.If they did not roll off the face they would be on a stance(ledge), and this is not where bolts go, they go above the stance, to provide protection from decking on said stance. They install, which includes decisions on placement,( very involved stuff), drilling, cleaning the hole, and finally installation of the bolt /hanger, and then tightening. If you set a route you just move the hold to where you think it may go and then put pro to wherever the next reach is. Not even close. Now I cannot resist this. "Sport climbing is neither." Bob
Wow, you say potato, i say go screw yourself. Thats useless nitpicking at a word that I felt like fucking using, so therefore I used it. If you don't like it, don't ever read my posts again, it won't bother me a bit.
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getout87
Jun 27, 2008, 4:39 PM
Post #58 of 112
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knieveltech wrote: bigwhitej wrote: In reply to: Climbing outside is scary. Sometimes, using a dictionary is scary. With that said it may be best to find a local gym and stay inside for training. It might be best that you stay inside and let others figure out the bolting issues. Yah Did you not read the whole thing? Its not that it is scary> It is that if you slip or make a mistake. Oh well you may say "What if this, what if that" Welll the fact is that it is ridiculous that some people think it is safer to Free Climb to the first bolt then put the bolt closer to the ground and place the other bolts close enough to each other that you will not hit the ground on a fall. Like some one else wrote why is it that all the really hard wrotes are all bolted to the tits so to speak. Why is it that you dont put really high bolts on a 5.13..... It seems that only up to 5.10 or so that has high first why not on the harder routes......Are you hard asses trying to scare off the people just trying to learn to climb and learning how to lead. It just seams that climbing has turned into an ego sport!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out. Well put.
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notapplicable
Jun 27, 2008, 5:10 PM
Post #59 of 112
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dingus wrote: Well yeah but bitching about bolt spacing and FA ego and what have you is one of the most reliable trolls out there. Some folks are being sport-fished here tis all. Cheers DMT
But this is important Dingus. Can't you see we're having an argument on the internet.
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rsmillbern
Jun 27, 2008, 5:37 PM
Post #60 of 112
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In reply to: If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out.
You mean you are not going to keep me SAFE!!! ;-) geeze, at least you can carry the beer then???
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bigfatrock
Jun 27, 2008, 7:09 PM
Post #61 of 112
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epoch wrote: Usually these route developers carry a large rope gun with them. The purpose of the rope gun is to get the rope into the first bolt. They place that first bolt high off the ground in order to keep gumbies like you from getting on a route that is above your ability, but mostly because if they placed the first bolt lower when you blew that second clip and flew off of the cliff you'd probably deck. This would be a bad thing, so they purposely placed that first bolt high so that they could gainfully employ their ropegun and not have to worry about decking themselves. Better?
Haha, nice man!! Know any ropeguns fore hire?
But seriously to the poster. Stick clip it man. I don't use mine that often, but have a Trango Squid, it is the best out there, you can not only clip the bolt, but you can unclip the draw as well, and you can clip the rop with it if it happens to fall though the draw after clipping it.
Also, high first bolts may also have to do with rock quality and where the bolt can be placed and not compromise the rock or your safety.
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knieveltech
Jun 27, 2008, 7:40 PM
Post #62 of 112
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rsmillbern wrote: In reply to: If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out. You mean you are not going to keep me SAFE!!! ;-) geeze, at least you can carry the beer then???
Carry the beer?? Hells yes! I'll cheerfully carry the beer although if you where planning on drinking as well it might not be a good idea to leave the beer in my unsupervised care for long.
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boadman
Jun 27, 2008, 7:58 PM
Post #63 of 112
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IMHO the correct way to bolt an overhanging sport route without any objective dangers like ledges or arrettes to bang into is:
1. Place the 1st bolt at around 4 to 5 meters off of the deck at a comfortable stance.
2. Place the next bolt around 1 to 1.5 meters above that at the next good clipping hold.
3. Add a meter. (1.5 to 2 meters apart)
4. Add a meter. (3 meters)
5. 4 meters above previous.
6. 5 meters above.
7. 7 meters.
8. etc.
Now, you've protected a 20+ meter sport route with a minimum amount of risk and a minimum amount of bolts. It's so much more pleasant to climb without having to constantly stop and clip, and 14 meter falls help focus admirably.
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rsmillbern
Jun 27, 2008, 8:03 PM
Post #64 of 112
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knieveltech wrote: rsmillbern wrote: In reply to: If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out. You mean you are not going to keep me SAFE!!! ;-) geeze, at least you can carry the beer then??? Carry the beer?? Hells yes! I'll cheerfully carry the beer although if you where planning on drinking as well it might not be a good idea to leave the beer in my unsupervised care for long.
You gotta ask yourself though... do you want me drinking, or driving... ;-)
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knieveltech
Jun 27, 2008, 8:09 PM
Post #65 of 112
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rsmillbern wrote: knieveltech wrote: rsmillbern wrote: In reply to: If you aren't prepared to take ownership of your own climbing (from route selection to consequences of your choices, this includes injury) you have no business leading. It's nobody's responsibility to keep your folded ass safe at the crag but yours. Get your head out. You mean you are not going to keep me SAFE!!! ;-) geeze, at least you can carry the beer then??? Carry the beer?? Hells yes! I'll cheerfully carry the beer although if you where planning on drinking as well it might not be a good idea to leave the beer in my unsupervised care for long. You gotta ask yourself though... do you want me drinking, or driving... ;-)
Damn, now there's a dilemma. Go without beer or let you drive us to the crag. I haven't died from lack of beer yet so looks like you win. Beer's all yours.
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stymingersfink
Jun 27, 2008, 8:33 PM
Post #66 of 112
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MikeSaint wrote: bigwhitej wrote: Just trying to keep sport climbing as safe as possible so we can continue clibing for years to come. Bigwhitej, Climbing outside is scary. Sometimes, using a dictionary is scary. With that said it may be best to find a local gym and stay inside for training. It might be best that you stay inside and let others figure out the bolting issues. Anyone going to welcome Bigwhitej to RC.c0m?
Welcome to rc.knob bigwhitejackoff.
Now, STFU, then do us another favor. Just shoot yerself in the face right now.
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stymingersfink
Jun 27, 2008, 8:37 PM
Post #67 of 112
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bigwhitej wrote: Yo I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE.....You are 100% right.... It should not be all about mocho and ego as it appears on this forum by some people.....It seems that climbing has become to much of a mocho sport and not about having fun.....that should be the most important part!
your have your fun, let me have mine.
Fuck off.
You too, jgdrawerslooksfrilly.
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sungam
Jun 27, 2008, 9:16 PM
Post #68 of 112
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stymingersfink wrote: bigwhitej wrote: Yo I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE.....You are 100% right.... It should not be all about mocho and ego as it appears on this forum by some people.....It seems that climbing has become to much of a mocho sport and not about having fun.....that should be the most important part! some of us have fun being macho. Others have fun getting their panties ina twist over other people doing something they can't even begin to dream about doing. your have your fun, let me have mine. Fuck off. You too, jgdrawerslooksfrilly.
-MagnuS
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stymingersfink
Jun 27, 2008, 10:04 PM
Post #69 of 112
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sungam wrote: stymingersfink wrote: bigwhitej wrote: Yo I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE.....You are 100% right.... It should not be all about mocho and ego as it appears on this forum by some people.....It seems that climbing has become to much of a mocho sport and not about having fun.....that should be the most important part! some of us have fun being macho. Others have fun getting their panties ina twist over other people doing something they can't even begin to dream about doing. your have your fun, let me have mine. Fuck off. You too, jgdrawerslooksfrilly. And some of us just like being assholes. ^ -MagnuS
I mean, who is this asshole to tell me what's safe for me to climb or not? If you don't feel safe climbing on it, then stay the fuck offa it, but don 't ruin it for those with the sack to climb it by dickin' the the FA's original vision.
How'd the OP like it if he were (by some stretch of the imagination, yes) an artist who just completed a fine piece of art, only to have some punk tagger come by and add his puke to it? It'd piss him off, wouldn't it? Not much difference really.
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sungam
Jun 27, 2008, 10:27 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: Not much difference really.
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bigwhitej
Jun 27, 2008, 11:31 PM
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SOME PEOPLE.......do you not have anything better to do than throw a temper tantrem in a climbing forum........Dont need to feel so offended by someone elses opinion.
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woland84
Jun 27, 2008, 11:58 PM
Post #73 of 112
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rsmillbern wrote: notapplicable wrote: bigwhitej wrote: It seems that climbing has become to much of a mocho sport and not about having fun.....that should be the most important part! For some, climbing "above the bolt" is fun. How are you not getting this. Some like superfluously bolted routes, some do not, there is room for everyones style of climbing. True!!! There is always HCR ifin's ya like lot's O close spaced bolts....
yea I went to Horseshoe and couldn't help but skip bolts. Orange crush has 14 bolts in 90 ft of 5.8 climbing. If I wanted to carry that much metal I'd go look for crack.
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bigwhitej
Jun 28, 2008, 2:24 AM
Post #75 of 112
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woland84 wrote: rsmillbern wrote: notapplicable wrote: bigwhitej wrote: It seems that climbing has become to much of a mocho sport and not about having fun.....that should be the most important part! For some, climbing "above the bolt" is fun. How are you not getting this. Some like superfluously bolted routes, some do not, there is room for everyones style of climbing. True!!! There is always HCR ifin's ya like lot's O close spaced bolts.... yea I went to Horseshoe and couldn't help but skip bolts. Orange crush has 14 bolts in 90 ft of 5.8 climbing. If I wanted to carry that much metal I'd go look for crack.
Well you dont want to clip every bolt then only bring 7 draws and be a tough guy and run it out.
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