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Rafajaman


Jul 21, 2008, 6:24 PM
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70m worth it?
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I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.


stymingersfink


Jul 21, 2008, 6:33 PM
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Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Get with the times. Jeesh!Crazy


caughtinside


Jul 21, 2008, 6:47 PM
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Re: [Rafajaman] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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It's nice to have both a 60 and a 70 to choose from, depending on where you'll be.

For long approaches, a 70 is almost never worth it.

If you plan to/are capable of linking pitches, a 70 can be great.

Some sport routes, a 70 is almost mandatory.

There are some rappels you can do with one 70, or else you need two ropes.

For tahoe, a lot of crags are short, really a 50 is all you need, but a 60 makes you more versatile. Lover's Leap has a few routes where a 70 makes it so you don't need a second rope to rap.


notapplicable


Jul 21, 2008, 11:08 PM
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stymingersfink wrote:
Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Wooh there cowboy, lets not get carried away.


stymingersfink


Jul 21, 2008, 11:35 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Wooh there cowboy, lets not get carried away.
Git along there little doggies... hya! Wink


dbrayack


Jul 22, 2008, 3:48 AM
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worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.


Partner j_ung


Jul 22, 2008, 6:19 AM
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dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 8:53 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Wooh there cowboy, lets not get carried away.

You know, he's not that far off the mark.

I know of a few around here that have already either started using 80's or have them on order.

The trend seems to be using a super skinny single 80m that you can douple up and use as per a set of half ropes on wandering alpine pitches, whilst not needing a second rope for the decent. Or using said 80m rope for 3 person teams on alpine and glaciated terrain.


notapplicable


Jul 22, 2008, 9:03 AM
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the_climber wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Wooh there cowboy, lets not get carried away.

You know, he's not that far off the mark.

I know of a few around here that have already either started using 80's or have them on order.

The trend seems to be using a super skinny single 80m that you can douple up and use as per a set of half ropes on wandering alpine pitches, whilst not needing a second rope for the decent. Or using said 80m rope for 3 person teams on alpine and glaciated terrain.

Not to say that one wouldnt be occasionally handy but really it would be more trouble than its worth for most climbers under most circumstances. I wouldnt mind having one in the back of my closet but it wouldnt be my primary rope.


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 9:25 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
the_climber wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:
Haven't you heard? 80M is the new 70M, just as 70M is the new 60M and 60m was the old 50M.

Wooh there cowboy, lets not get carried away.

You know, he's not that far off the mark.

I know of a few around here that have already either started using 80's or have them on order.

The trend seems to be using a super skinny single 80m that you can douple up and use as per a set of half ropes on wandering alpine pitches, whilst not needing a second rope for the decent. Or using said 80m rope for 3 person teams on alpine and glaciated terrain.

Not to say that one wouldnt be occasionally handy but really it would be more trouble than its worth for most climbers under most circumstances. I wouldnt mind having one in the back of my closet but it wouldnt be my primary rope.
Your right, for the average climber, it would likely be too much hassle for rope management. I'll have to see how it goes when I get a hold of my partners 80m for a few climbs.

As for 70m rope. That likely what my next single will be, paired up with an 8mm tag line for rapping.


shimanilami


Jul 22, 2008, 9:33 AM
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Absolutely worth it, dude.

For trad climbing, the extra 10m might get you to a better belay or reduce the number of rappels you've got to make (which might save some gear in rain-out bail-outs which are not uncommon in the high country).

And while most Yosemite/Tuolemne/Tahoe sport climbs were established before 70m ropes were popular, a lot of new sport climbs and extentions require 70m.

And if shouldering an extra 10m of rope to the crag is really too much of a burden, I'd suggest you leave you're tampons at home instead.


chossmonkey


Jul 22, 2008, 9:34 AM
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j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 9:46 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.


chossmonkey


Jul 22, 2008, 9:52 AM
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.
Me to, but they were about as available as 50's are today. That was bout when 60's started being the flavor of the month.

Once ropes hit 90m I bet they will go back down to 45M and we can go through it all again.


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 9:58 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.
Me to, but they were about as available as 50's are today. That was bout when 60's started being the flavor of the month.

Once ropes hit 90m I bet they will go back down to 45M and we can go through it all again.

Hmmm, I remember when 45's readily availibleUnimpressed

I also remember the hype and critisism over OMFG! 55m ropes!
All the comments of "what the hell would you need the extra 5m for?! Don't people know what douples and twins are for anymore?!"

Then 60's became standard, and the same peopel couldn't believe it when someone showed up at the crag with a 50m rope. Then it was the same people saying "Don't you know how much you're limiting yourself with a 50m rope?!"

Interesting times.


getout87


Jul 22, 2008, 10:02 AM
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I'll probably go with a 70 for my next rope, I like long pitches.


chossmonkey


Jul 22, 2008, 10:05 AM
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I still own a 55m.




As to the OP. some things to consider. You either need to take more gear or run it out if you make your pitches longer. Also be prepared to fall a lot further when you have a lot of rope out. Or even if you don't have much rope out since the skinny lines tend to stretch a lot more. Skinny ropes wear out faster than thicker ropes too. You could likely have a lighter, more durrable rope that costs less money if you go with the shorter rope.


irregularpanda


Jul 22, 2008, 10:25 AM
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Re: [Rafajaman] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.

Just get a 100m, and in 5 years, you'll be able to say I told you so. Wanna buy a beanie?


stymingersfink


Jul 22, 2008, 10:26 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
I still own a 55m.




As to the OP. some things to consider. You either need to take more gear or run it out if you make your pitches longer. Also be prepared to fall a lot further when you have a lot of rope out. Or even if you don't have much rope out since the skinny lines tend to stretch a lot more. Skinny ropes wear out faster than thicker ropes too. You could likely have a lighter, more durrable rope that costs less money if you go with the shorter rope.
i still climb on a 50M some days. It has its uses, that's for sure.


mach2


Jul 22, 2008, 10:57 AM
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first and foremost, 70m is awesome if for no other reason than you can link the same pitches as 60m folks but without the worry of running out of rope. That beig said though, communication between belay/lead is tough enough on 60m when your surroundings decide to have their say. Typically I use radios in this situation, or rope communication. But, I'm curious if anyone has a great system for communication that doesn't use batteries, and offers more to say than your typical commands as ropes grow to spool-like lengths


sspssp


Jul 22, 2008, 11:03 AM
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If you are on a limited budget and are only going to have one rope, I would probably stick with a 60m. You will probably have to special order a 70 whereas you can usually find a 60 on sale.

Between my main partner and I, we have a lot of ropes including a superskinny 70 and a fat 70. For alpine and/or easy moderate multi-pitch we take the skinny 70. It is nice to occasionally link pitches and I rarely carry a second rap rope. Most raps are 35 meters or less and if need be, we can build a rap anchor.

The fat 70 is for cragging. It is an unnecessary luxury, but there are a significant number of routes out there that you can TR/lower from using a single 70 instead of two 60s.


(This post was edited by sspssp on Jul 22, 2008, 11:04 AM)


notapplicable


Jul 22, 2008, 11:17 AM
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the_climber wrote:
As for 70m rope. That likely what my next single will be, paired up with an 8mm tag line for rapping.

Yep, been thinking the same thing myself lately. I've got less practical use for a 70m out here on the EC but I'm gonna get one for my next cord anyway. I used one for 4 days on multi pitch stuff and really liked it.


zealotnoob


Jul 22, 2008, 12:50 PM
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I purchased a 70m and regretted it. It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

For long pitches and raps, I'm loving thin doubles.


acorneau


Jul 22, 2008, 1:22 PM
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zealotnoob wrote:
I purchased a 70m and regretted it. It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

Just curious: did you cut it down or just live with your "regret"?
Angelic


zealotnoob


Jul 22, 2008, 1:54 PM
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The rope sits idle, waiting for its moment to shine.

Until then, I continue to fall in love with my doubles.


climbingtrash


Jul 22, 2008, 3:19 PM
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I'm on my second 70m and it's all I'll use on multi-pitch or at Indian Creek. I sprung for the bi-color pattern and I don't think I'll ever buy another rope without it.


donald949


Jul 22, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.

My buddy has a 70. Its a little skinny, maybe 9.6. It stretches a lot more on falls than my 10.3 60 M. None the less my next rope is proly a skinny 70 to match his. But I'll still be using the 10.3 60 as work horse for cragging.
Other than that, like you said and CI responded to, how often do you carry 2 ropes for retreating, that you won't need with one 70? Tag line is an option, as well as twins.
Don


sungam


Jul 22, 2008, 3:44 PM
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.
Me to, but they were about as available as 50's are today. That was bout when 60's started being the flavor of the month.

Once ropes hit 90m I bet they will go back down to 45M and we can go through it all again.

Hmmm, I remember when 45's readily availibleUnimpressed

I also remember the hype and critisism over OMFG! 55m ropes!
All the comments of "what the hell would you need the extra 5m for?! Don't people know what douples and twins are for anymore?!"

Then 60's became standard, and the same peopel couldn't believe it when someone showed up at the crag with a 50m rope. Then it was the same people saying "Don't you know how much you're limiting yourself with a 50m rope?!"

Interesting times.
The shop down the road from me sells 45's and 30's.


bender


Jul 22, 2008, 4:22 PM
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.

and here i was going to claim relic status recalling the 55m rope era


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 4:48 PM
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bender wrote:
the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.

and here i was going to claim relic status recalling the 55m rope era

haha!

One of my climbing partners remembers his first several ropes.... "Goldline" Baby! Ha!


wrbill


Jul 22, 2008, 6:27 PM
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As for weight, I don't think that it is a issue, at least not for me. I got the Edelweiss On Sight 9.9mm and I love it, The weight feels no heavier than the 10.3mm Edelweiss that I was using. Listed below is a break down of the weight.

10.3mm 60M Edelweiss
70g/M X 60M = 4200g or 9lbs 4.15 oz.

9.9mm 70M Edelweiss
64g/M X 70M = 4480g or 9lbs 14.02 oz.

So you get a total weight difference of only 280g or 9.87oz or just over 1/2 a pound.

Bill


pmyche


Jul 22, 2008, 8:37 PM
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zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 5:54 AM
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Re: [pmyche] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.


camplicated


Jul 23, 2008, 8:04 AM
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zealotnoob wrote:
It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

you evidently need to find a more appreciative gf Wink


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 8:08 AM
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zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.


(This post was edited by the_climber on Jul 23, 2008, 8:09 AM)


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 9:10 AM
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Re: [camplicated] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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camplicated wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

you evidently need to find a more appreciative gf Wink
Perhaps if you had the extra length you thought you had, you would understand that there is such a thing as to much.Tongue


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 9:13 AM
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the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 9:51 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.
I'm not reading that.^^^^


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Good dialog.

If using guide book belays a 70m is rarely needed. If you wanna haul ass, get above potential trundlers and limit exposure on non-sport climbing, forget the established belays and create your own. A brief uncomfortable stance will pay nice dividends in time savings. Changeovers and stopping short eat up time like mad. Generous slinging and carrying extra gear is SOP or this MO.

If you set the belay just before an easy section (not normally where standard belays are), you can better simul and stretch out that next "pitch" even farther. Boom, you just saved one more changeover.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.
I'm not reading that.^^^^

^^^^^I'm not re-reading that either.


zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Out of curiosity, do you usually bring a tag, or any kind of secondary line?


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 1:09 PM
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Bringing a tag line or a second line really depends on the route. I often do carry one, but many times I don't bother.
If the route in question is straight forward, has ample oppertunity to rap down or has a walk off I most often don't. If it's a new route, long route, or is going to have more than 4 or 5 raps I will likely bring it along.

We've been using my partners 75m 7mm static (same line we use for tagging gear on aid) paired up with a 70m Joker. I'm going to be getting an 8mm line soon. Reason is due to sharp edges on some routes (I'm nowhere near as light as he is).


zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Any thoughts on doubles?

I just started using them and just love 'em. Seems like if you need to bring any kind of secondary line, they're the way to go. Feels like I can link pitches I wouldn't be able to with a single, regardless of length. ...though, if you don't need the redundancy and full-length raps, a single is lighter.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 1:42 PM
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zealotnoob wrote:
Any thoughts on doubles?

I just started using them and just love 'em. Seems like if you need to bring any kind of secondary line, they're the way to go. Feels like I can link pitches I wouldn't be able to with a single, regardless of length. ...though, if you don't need the redundancy and full-length raps, a single is lighter.

Yes.


Doubles are great, about half my climbing is on doubles. I still do enjoy the simplicity of single lines though. For me that means making the switch from 60m's to 70m's. I have used double 70m 8mm half ropes. I wasn't sold on them at first, but quickly became very fond of them for ice and winter Alpine. Especially the getting down part.
I'd say a good 90% of my ice climbing is done with doubles (except for the soloing where I shoulder only 1 half rope for raps), and about half my alpine.


Single is most often lighter, sometimes doubles are better, other times a single and a tag are the ticket. It's all about having options, and anticipating what will work best for a given route/mountain.


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 1:52 PM
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Love doubles for a team of 3.

A 70m single is a tad more bail/rap insurance than a shorter single, lighter than any doubles. A 7mm secondary cord is pretty darn small, tho. (EDK works fab.) You could lighten it up further with a 7mm shortie if the raps are not steep and you can even out the ends en route rapping. Be extra careful.

Mammut Serenity plus a 7mm (or even smaller, I'm pretty sure Dean rapped Cerro Torre with a doubled 5mm) is my pick for heli-light and full capability. Granted, no advantage of alternate clipping. The second can carry the 7mm coiled pretty easily.


(This post was edited by pmyche on Jul 23, 2008, 1:53 PM)


norushnomore


Jul 23, 2008, 2:23 PM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Guys, you are missing the point. 70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope (same for 80m). It is not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

Reason being it's easier to pull the rope up instead of leading with 2 ropes or carrying the second rope in the backpack.

Plus it affords you an extra safety margin if leader needs to be lowered.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 2:29 PM
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pmyche nails it pretty good there too.

Couple thing to note with tag lines. A static tag line must be longer than your main line. This is to allow for the stretch of the dynamic line. Typically 5m longer is sufficient. Also note that if you will be pulling the main line there is the potential fro significant creep of teh tag line while rapping, to the point that rapping of the end is somthing you have to watch for. Keeping the knot on the tag line side and pulling the tag line is the easiest way to avoid this. A small light weight accender can be usefull for pulling on difficult pulls.


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 3:33 PM
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norushnomore wrote:
70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope...not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

OMG I've been misusing my rope. I promise not to run out more than 60m of it henceforth. I hope it will still hold a fall.


caughtinside


Jul 23, 2008, 4:31 PM
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norushnomore wrote:
Guys, you are missing the point. 70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope (same for 80m). It is not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

I have led a couple 240 foot pitches.

Not often, but it happens. In places with lots of 100 to 120 foot pitches you can link to optimal belays.

Did the first two pitches of South Crack last weekend in one long one.


donald949


Jul 23, 2008, 4:42 PM
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Re: [pmyche] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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pmyche wrote:
norushnomore wrote:
70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope...not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

OMG I've been misusing my rope. I promise not to run out more than 60m of it henceforth. I hope it will still hold a fall.

So a 60 M pitch is OK right? Just checking, cause I just lead a full 60 M pitch. Which was kind of a drag since it wasn't a straight pitch, but the terrain was easy so I dealt.
I'll try not to go over 60 if my buddy ever gets released from his work cube and we get out on his 70. I don't want to be responsible for any 70 M pitch incidents. Unsure


norushnomore


Jul 24, 2008, 3:07 AM
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Re: [pmyche] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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pmyche wrote:
norushnomore wrote:
70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope...not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

OMG I've been misusing my rope. I promise not to run out more than 60m of it henceforth. I hope it will still hold a fall.

Very happy for you. Glad you could share your experience with us.

If you climb 5.easy and proudly run it out to the end of your 70m rope then great. But that would not be my primary reason for buying a 70 or 80m rope.


desertdude420


Jul 25, 2008, 8:08 PM
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Either get one 70m or get two 60m's. It's your choice. In the desert southwest, a 70m is just about standard now!


t2stone


Aug 10, 2008, 6:04 PM
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IM w/t him light is right! futhermore... there is a certain place where the MEAT~HEAD mentality takes over (concerning gear) I see it alot hear on rc.com go figure?CrazyShockedAngelic


ltj999


Aug 10, 2008, 7:32 PM
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unless you get a 200m spool of rope your rope will be useless.


jmeizis


Aug 10, 2008, 10:26 PM
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If you're climbing the 240 feet without falling, why don't you just simul-climb with the shorter 160 foot rope. On the other hand you could just get a 200 meter spool and then you can probably lead any climb in Tuolmne in one pitch.


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