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climbingtrash


Jul 22, 2008, 3:19 PM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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I'm on my second 70m and it's all I'll use on multi-pitch or at Indian Creek. I sprung for the bi-color pattern and I don't think I'll ever buy another rope without it.


donald949


Jul 22, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Re: [Rafajaman] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Rafajaman wrote:
I am considering purchasing a 70m rope to get an extra 10m of play when looking for a belay, or when trying to tie two pitches together. I am starting to climb near Tahoe and Yosemite/Tuolumne granite. I am looking for opinions as to wether the weight/bulk is worth it or not(I realize this depends on the route/approach/descent), or are there any other drawbacks you know of?

Thank you.

My buddy has a 70. Its a little skinny, maybe 9.6. It stretches a lot more on falls than my 10.3 60 M. None the less my next rope is proly a skinny 70 to match his. But I'll still be using the 10.3 60 as work horse for cragging.
Other than that, like you said and CI responded to, how often do you carry 2 ropes for retreating, that you won't need with one 70? Tag line is an option, as well as twins.
Don


sungam


Jul 22, 2008, 3:44 PM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.
Me to, but they were about as available as 50's are today. That was bout when 60's started being the flavor of the month.

Once ropes hit 90m I bet they will go back down to 45M and we can go through it all again.

Hmmm, I remember when 45's readily availibleUnimpressed

I also remember the hype and critisism over OMFG! 55m ropes!
All the comments of "what the hell would you need the extra 5m for?! Don't people know what douples and twins are for anymore?!"

Then 60's became standard, and the same peopel couldn't believe it when someone showed up at the crag with a 50m rope. Then it was the same people saying "Don't you know how much you're limiting yourself with a 50m rope?!"

Interesting times.
The shop down the road from me sells 45's and 30's.


bender


Jul 22, 2008, 4:22 PM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.

and here i was going to claim relic status recalling the 55m rope era


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Re: [bender] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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bender wrote:
the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
j_ung wrote:
dbrayack wrote:
worth it - you can cut it and have a 60....so you get twice as much time out of it...well not twice but you get the picture.

That's what I was going to add, too. I think all my ropes going forward will be 70m... (err... 80m?) Wink
I've actually been considering getting a 70 and cutting it in half before first use. An 80 might be even better. A 35 or 40 meter rope would be perfect for most stuff around here.

Hey I remember when you could still buy 45m ropes.

and here i was going to claim relic status recalling the 55m rope era

haha!

One of my climbing partners remembers his first several ropes.... "Goldline" Baby! Ha!


wrbill


Jul 22, 2008, 6:27 PM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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As for weight, I don't think that it is a issue, at least not for me. I got the Edelweiss On Sight 9.9mm and I love it, The weight feels no heavier than the 10.3mm Edelweiss that I was using. Listed below is a break down of the weight.

10.3mm 60M Edelweiss
70g/M X 60M = 4200g or 9lbs 4.15 oz.

9.9mm 70M Edelweiss
64g/M X 70M = 4480g or 9lbs 14.02 oz.

So you get a total weight difference of only 280g or 9.87oz or just over 1/2 a pound.

Bill


pmyche


Jul 22, 2008, 8:37 PM
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zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 5:54 AM
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Re: [pmyche] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.


camplicated


Jul 23, 2008, 8:04 AM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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zealotnoob wrote:
It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

you evidently need to find a more appreciative gf Wink


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 8:08 AM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.


(This post was edited by the_climber on Jul 23, 2008, 8:09 AM)


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 9:10 AM
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Re: [camplicated] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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camplicated wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
It has been rare that the added length has been worth the weight.

you evidently need to find a more appreciative gf Wink
Perhaps if you had the extra length you thought you had, you would understand that there is such a thing as to much.Tongue


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 9:13 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 9:51 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.


chossmonkey


Jul 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.
I'm not reading that.^^^^


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Good dialog.

If using guide book belays a 70m is rarely needed. If you wanna haul ass, get above potential trundlers and limit exposure on non-sport climbing, forget the established belays and create your own. A brief uncomfortable stance will pay nice dividends in time savings. Changeovers and stopping short eat up time like mad. Generous slinging and carrying extra gear is SOP or this MO.

If you set the belay just before an easy section (not normally where standard belays are), you can better simul and stretch out that next "pitch" even farther. Boom, you just saved one more changeover.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
the_climber wrote:
zealotnoob wrote:
I'm sure 70m or longer ropes are great in areas where the falls are clean, the routes don't wander and where you're comfortable spacing the gear out (IC perhaps or long sport routes).

But for everywhere else, you could go faster and lighter with a shorter rope.

Odd, because the conditions I have found the most benificial for 70m+ ropes has been long mult pitch routes (especially wandering Canadian Rockies routes), alpine climbing with a 3 person team (especially when simu-climbing), new routing and Ice climbing.
Most people climb slower when faced with long runouts, ledge falls, and oversized racks to try to try and minimize the dangers..

I'm not the fastest leader either, especially when I'm on a route that one may need everything from Micro nuts to a 4.5 Camalot. I'm guilty of almost always having too much gear on a rack, but I don't carry all of it every pitch. I guess many just get used to climbing above ledges with a heavy rack in the Rockies... there are many many many ledges in the Rockies. That said I was always tought that longer routes are not the place to move excessively slow. Running it out can be a forced neccesity be it by time constraints or by the amount of pro the rock dictates you can get, it's more of a mindset than anything else. Look at how most climb alpine routes. A climb of a given grade on both alpine and multi pitch trad would be a fine example of the differences in mindset being related to the speed at which one climbs the route, as well as the amount of runout one is willing to do. The only real difference there is mindset.

Longer rope have there place (up to a certain point), just like shorter ropes have their place (up to a certain point). Given the choice on a glacier route I would take a 30m or 40m rope. On longer technical route with pitches known to be less than 50m I'd rather have 60m ropes, unless I'm planning on linking pitches together. I think one of the biggest things holding back an everage climber from linking pitches togething on routes is a lack of slingage to reduce rope drag. Would a longer rope help the everage climber, maybe, maybe not. It would depend on the route and the climber. Would I recomend a new climber run out an buy a 70m rope? Not likely, 60m yes, 70m no, so I guess the experiance lever plays a factor there as well, which very much inclued rope management; up to and including knowing when to take a few coils in and tie in short.

Now I'm just rambling on, but I will say this. The only notable times I've found a 70m rope to be a hinderence is on short climbs, short as in less than 30m.
I'm not reading that.^^^^

^^^^^I'm not re-reading that either.


zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: [the_climber] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Out of curiosity, do you usually bring a tag, or any kind of secondary line?


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 1:09 PM
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Bringing a tag line or a second line really depends on the route. I often do carry one, but many times I don't bother.
If the route in question is straight forward, has ample oppertunity to rap down or has a walk off I most often don't. If it's a new route, long route, or is going to have more than 4 or 5 raps I will likely bring it along.

We've been using my partners 75m 7mm static (same line we use for tagging gear on aid) paired up with a 70m Joker. I'm going to be getting an 8mm line soon. Reason is due to sharp edges on some routes (I'm nowhere near as light as he is).


zealotnoob


Jul 23, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Any thoughts on doubles?

I just started using them and just love 'em. Seems like if you need to bring any kind of secondary line, they're the way to go. Feels like I can link pitches I wouldn't be able to with a single, regardless of length. ...though, if you don't need the redundancy and full-length raps, a single is lighter.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 1:42 PM
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zealotnoob wrote:
Any thoughts on doubles?

I just started using them and just love 'em. Seems like if you need to bring any kind of secondary line, they're the way to go. Feels like I can link pitches I wouldn't be able to with a single, regardless of length. ...though, if you don't need the redundancy and full-length raps, a single is lighter.

Yes.


Doubles are great, about half my climbing is on doubles. I still do enjoy the simplicity of single lines though. For me that means making the switch from 60m's to 70m's. I have used double 70m 8mm half ropes. I wasn't sold on them at first, but quickly became very fond of them for ice and winter Alpine. Especially the getting down part.
I'd say a good 90% of my ice climbing is done with doubles (except for the soloing where I shoulder only 1 half rope for raps), and about half my alpine.


Single is most often lighter, sometimes doubles are better, other times a single and a tag are the ticket. It's all about having options, and anticipating what will work best for a given route/mountain.


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 1:52 PM
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Love doubles for a team of 3.

A 70m single is a tad more bail/rap insurance than a shorter single, lighter than any doubles. A 7mm secondary cord is pretty darn small, tho. (EDK works fab.) You could lighten it up further with a 7mm shortie if the raps are not steep and you can even out the ends en route rapping. Be extra careful.

Mammut Serenity plus a 7mm (or even smaller, I'm pretty sure Dean rapped Cerro Torre with a doubled 5mm) is my pick for heli-light and full capability. Granted, no advantage of alternate clipping. The second can carry the 7mm coiled pretty easily.


(This post was edited by pmyche on Jul 23, 2008, 1:53 PM)


norushnomore


Jul 23, 2008, 2:23 PM
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Re: [zealotnoob] 70m worth it? [In reply to]
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Guys, you are missing the point. 70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope (same for 80m). It is not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

Reason being it's easier to pull the rope up instead of leading with 2 ropes or carrying the second rope in the backpack.

Plus it affords you an extra safety margin if leader needs to be lowered.


the_climber


Jul 23, 2008, 2:29 PM
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pmyche nails it pretty good there too.

Couple thing to note with tag lines. A static tag line must be longer than your main line. This is to allow for the stretch of the dynamic line. Typically 5m longer is sufficient. Also note that if you will be pulling the main line there is the potential fro significant creep of teh tag line while rapping, to the point that rapping of the end is somthing you have to watch for. Keeping the knot on the tag line side and pulling the tag line is the easiest way to avoid this. A small light weight accender can be usefull for pulling on difficult pulls.


pmyche


Jul 23, 2008, 3:33 PM
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norushnomore wrote:
70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope...not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

OMG I've been misusing my rope. I promise not to run out more than 60m of it henceforth. I hope it will still hold a fall.


caughtinside


Jul 23, 2008, 4:31 PM
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norushnomore wrote:
Guys, you are missing the point. 70m is for lowering or rapping down with one rope (same for 80m). It is not for leading 240 feet long pitches.

I have led a couple 240 foot pitches.

Not often, but it happens. In places with lots of 100 to 120 foot pitches you can link to optimal belays.

Did the first two pitches of South Crack last weekend in one long one.

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