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sspssp
Sep 30, 2008, 8:37 PM
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There are some good suggestions here. I will try and add a few more. Depending on your budget (and what you already own), you can shave weight by getting lighter items.
"Approach shoes" range from under a pound to over two. That is a big difference. My retro tennies (although not very durable) are only 15 ounces. Many routes I will walk off in my Mythos.
I'm not making very many desperate clips on long Yosemite routes. Get the lightest, wire gates out there. My locking belay biner is also a lightweight biner. If you rack each cam with its own biner, don't carry any extra biners (or elaborate anchor setups).
Minimize the large cams. My typical Yosemite rack has only one large hand sized piece (Friends are a little lighter than Camalots), but extra finger sized cams.
Carry a knife, but not a typical 3~4" pocket knife. A 1.5" blade with plastic handle is plenty large enough (but make sure it is serrated). (A knife is important if you catch your shirt in your belay device, if the rope gets hopelessly jammed on rapel--and you need to cut it to continue down, etc.)
There are lighter options than fleece. A hat (or at least a handband) is the most warmth for weight you can get. Wind shirts are good (I like my Transition feather weight T)
Food and water can vary. I might carry 1 liter of water, 4 or 5 gel packs, and a ziplock of trail mix. On the same climb, my parter will carry 2 liters of water and no food at all. Each climber having their own pack is the way to go (and your food and clothing is always with you). I add powdered gatorade to my water to help keep my blood sugar up.
Unless you know you need two ropes to get off, minimize how often you carry a second rope (Most pitches in Yosemite are 30m or less and you can almost always set up a natural anchor to rap).
There are some very light weight head lamps out there. Use lithium batteries.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Sep 30, 2008, 8:39 PM)
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hafilax
Sep 30, 2008, 9:05 PM
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Sports gels are designed to maximize gastric emptying for about 1L of water per hour so carrying more than one gel per liter isn't a very good use of them. You really should take water with them. The point isn't the energy but the fact that you need a certain amount of sugar in your stomach in order to pass water along to the rest of the digestive system where it will be absorbed. Unless you have like 1% body fat you have more than enough energy reserves to get you through the day. Fatigue from dehydration will get you first.
This kind of goes against my original suggestion of carrying less water and it is certainly a difficult compromise that you have to work out with your own body. You want to carry as much water as is needed but no more. This past weekend my girlfriend and I tried to get by with about 4L on an 11 hr scramble and we could have used another litre based on our fatigue. I had hoped to find water along the route.
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sspssp
Sep 30, 2008, 10:55 PM
Post #28 of 56
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At the risk of hijacking the thread: people's response vary. Sure, gel's are intended to be taken with water. But unless you are already dehydrated, most people could do an all day climb in moderate temps with a liter of water (or less). Although athletic performance may drop.
From long experience, I have found that I need more food and less water [compared to my partner]. When my blood sugar drops, I start feeling tired (and that's not to even mention the possibility of headachs). For a ten hour climb on a day with temps in the 70's, I will climb better with a half dozen gels and one liter of water than with two liters of water and no food. Your mileage may vary. (I'm not at 1%, but yeah, my body fat is pretty low).
(This post was edited by sspssp on Sep 30, 2008, 10:55 PM)
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hafilax
Sep 30, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Are gels high glycemic index? I can't recall. You might be better off eating something that doesn't give you an insulin spike if you really are eating them for the energy. From what I've read, at the very least you should eat them with some protein.
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Durin
Oct 1, 2008, 7:51 AM
Post #30 of 56
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I'm likely going to get one of the BD packs, either the Bbee or the Bullet.
In reply to: You can photocopy the topo ahead of time so you don't have to carry the whole guidebook.
I recently thought of that and plan to do so.
Again, regarding approach shoes...I'm going to need something light that can get me down north dome gulley, steck salathe, the cathedrals...etc. Would anyone who's posted here really advise doing that in tennies or running shoes? I'm looking into Chaco sandals.
Also, are there any good alternatives to both Nalgenes and bladders? I've had three bladders leak on me over the years. Two from Camelbak, one from Platypus.
Regarding the knife debate, they don't weigh very much, I'll keep my gerber with me. My petzl zipka is pretty damn tiny and light, so that's sticking too.
The marmot wind shirt does look awesome. I figure with that, then depending on the circumstances, a patagonia capilene and a light rain jacket should keep me comfortable for most long single-day climbs.
Any other food ideas? The gel debate is interesting.
In reply to: ALSO, don't be scared off by the captain
I'm not, I look forward to it eagerly. I'm only 20, so the regular northwest face and the Nose both loom on the horizon :)
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russwalling
Oct 1, 2008, 3:12 PM
Post #31 of 56
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To each his own I suppose..... Here is my full day set up:
I hate packs and will avoid taking them on routes:
Food: none. LIke I cant go a day without a snack?
Water: Almost none. Drink what I have on the approach. Take none on route. If it is really all day, and hot, maybe take a quart for two people.
Clothing: Light wind shell tied around my waist.
Shoes: Water socks that get tucked into the back of my harness while on the route. Or just do the descent in the climbing shoes I used on the route, but with the heels turned down.
Other stuff: knife (really small one for webbing in bolt hangers), tiny headlamp, and if there are trees on the summit, a lighter or matches.
try this too: http://www.supertopo.com/...html?topic_id=449338
I'll add: if you are doing a fairly long route THAT IS HARD FOR YOU, you can always hand over hand (hate to say haul since you guys will go nuts) the SMALL PACK up on your trail line. This way the second can do some actual moves without struggling under the weight and bulk of a pack.
(This post was edited by russwalling on Oct 1, 2008, 3:16 PM)
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dingus
Oct 1, 2008, 4:31 PM
Post #32 of 56
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Durin wrote: Also, are there any good alternatives to both Nalgenes and bladders? I've had three bladders leak on me over the years. Two from Camelbak, one from Platypus.
I hate those fucking things.
I use the evil plastic water bottle. I take an old sewn sling and duct tape it length-wise round the bottle, then tie a shortening knot in the loop - viola - poor man's canteen.
When I'm done with is I use my Box Cutter in my garage to cut my water bottle sling off the throw-away (which goes into my recycle bin) so I can reuse the sling for the next water bottle.
Some of my more militant Green friends do not approve. So I killed them.
DMT
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sspssp
Oct 1, 2008, 9:52 PM
Post #33 of 56
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Durin wrote: Again, regarding approach shoes...I'm going to need something light that can get me down north dome gulley, steck salathe, the cathedrals...etc. Would anyone who's posted here really advise doing that in tennies or running shoes? I'm looking into Chaco sandals.
Most "approach" shoes are off-trail shoes with big treads. I prefer something with a more climbing shoe bottom or "dot rubber". Trail shoes are heavy and don't smear that well on open slabs.
Even the shoes geared more towards climbers tend to be heavy (with good support). Maybe ok for a long a approach with a pack or wearing on an alpine scramble. For Yosemite descents, I want something lighter. Lighter tends to wear out faster but I only wear/carry the light shoes on climbs like East Butress. For cragging (or routes that I don't need separate descent shoes) I wear something else. I'm not carrying a 2 pound pair of shoes up a climb.
I've come down north dome gulley, and Steck Salathe in my retro-tennies (or equivalent). I would carry a light pair of running shoes before carrying a heavy approach shoe.
Durin wrote: Also, are there any good alternatives to both Nalgenes and bladders? I've had three bladders leak on me over the years. Two from Camelbak, one from Platypus.
Durin wrote: The marmot wind shirt does look awesome. I figure with that, then depending on the circumstances, a patagonia capilene and a light rain jacket should keep me comfortable for most long single-day climbs. Any other food ideas? The gel debate is interesting. In reply to: ALSO, don't be scared off by the captain I'm not, I look forward to it eagerly. I'm only 20, so the regular northwest face and the Nose both loom on the horizon :)
If you want a "rain jacket" in addition to a wind shirt, I would do a somewhat warmer shirt that breathes well and then a super-light wind/rain shell. The shell can double as a wind jacket for cold belays.
Food and water depends on how your body responds. People go overboard thinking gels have to be consumed with water (since that is what the directions on the packet say). A handful of nuts also "have to be consumed with water" for best digestion, but they don't come with directions. I can climb all day on gel and still drink less water than my partner can. He either dehydrates more quickly than me (or suffers more). My athletic performace drops more quickly with a drop in blood sugar.
I wouldn't try to scare any one off from E.B. of ElCap, but I do disagree with the previous poster who didn't think it much harder than E.B. of Middle. Although you can aid through the 10b crux on the ElCap route, the ElCap route has a longer approach and descent, some wide climbing--mandatory at the start and then a later offwidth section that can only be avoided by a somewhat runout 5.9 face. Finally it has a 5.7X section near the top. That is way more difficult, at least for the leader, than anything on Middle (it is perhaps not much harder for the second). A very fun route.
cheers
(This post was edited by sspssp on Oct 1, 2008, 10:35 PM)
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dingus
Oct 1, 2008, 10:07 PM
Post #34 of 56
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yes e butt el Cap is a more serious climb than e butt Middle - considerably imo. A definite STEP up.
I don't even think of E Butt of middle as a grade IV... to me its a III now. E Butt of El Cap is definitely IV. And it has a *must not blow it* pitch - something completely lacking on E butt middle.
And in spring there is Horsetail Falls......
DMT
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Durin
Oct 1, 2008, 11:04 PM
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In reply to: On moderate but longer routes each climber carries her own shit. That's the starting point. You'd be amazed what you can get rid of when YOU have to carry it all the time.
In reply to: That's my approach. I hate toting my partner's heavy bullshit. It also puts YOUR gear at YOUR fingertips when you need it. And you end up toting MUCH LESS WEIGHT too.
So, if you were to lead that 5.7X pitch on EB of El Cap, would you still carry all of your own shit? Or was that more of just a general rule?
If EB of middle is III, is Arches II?
Also, what/where is horsetail falls? RC.com route search only returns an ice climb in colorado.
In reply to: Take EITHER the windshirt, or the rain jacket. Not both. Unless you are climbing in Antarctica. /quote] If I've got a wind shirt and no rain jacket, and it pours, am I screwed?
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sspssp
Oct 1, 2008, 11:19 PM
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My partner and I carry all our own crap, even on every pitch of EB of El Cap.
Arches is still a III just for length. But for perspective: my partner and I have climbed Arches in 1.5~2 hours and EB of Middle in 2~2.5 hours (simul climbing). On EB of ElCap there are a few really easy pitches in the middle of the climb we simul, but I'm not up to simuling any of the other pitches on EB of ElCap. Our time on EB of ElCap is more like 6~7 hours.
Getting caught in the rain can be really serious. I got caught in Yosemite thunderstorm on a June day (forecast was sunny in mid-90s) with a cotton t-shirt and light, nylon shell and was pretty shocked how cold I got (even though the wind was fairly mild and the air wasn't that cold). A light shell with nothing underneath doesn't do much in the rain because it plasters down on your skin and the rain is cold through the thin material (even if stay "mostly" dry).
However, I don't carry much rain gear. But I do my "serious" climbs on days with good forecasts and I'm pretty cautious when clouds build. I've rapped off more than once (because I didn't have rain gear) when it never rained.
For late spring to early fall on an all day climb, I will typically take (at most) my Transition featherweight T and a super light shell. Is that "enough" to ride out a cold, hard thunderstorm? Well, I wouldn't expect to die, but I wouldn't say it is enough either.
Horsetails comes off the top of ElCap a little east of EB of ElCap. Go to supertopo.com and do a search on Horsetail falls.
(This post was edited by sspssp on Oct 1, 2008, 11:27 PM)
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dingus
Oct 1, 2008, 11:21 PM
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Durin wrote: So, if you were to lead that 5.7X pitch on EB of El Cap, would you still carry all of your own shit? Or was that more of just a general rule?
I did carry my own shit up that lead, yes. As with others, I don't take much on routes like that.
In reply to: If EB of middle is III, is Arches II?
Hmmm, good point. I guess the techniques that render the E butt of middle a III are the same things you'd need to turn RA into a II - a decent amount of simul-climbing and not getting stuck behind slower parties.
In reply to: what/where is horsetail falls?
http://www.world-of-waterfalls.com/...horsetail-falls.html
Horsetail Falls is a seasonal snowmelt water fall down the east side of El Cap. It dries up by late spring / mid-summer most years. Its not a deluge, more like a light shower.
So in the mornings the winds aren't blowing and the water falls straight down - sorta down onto routes like Born Under a Bad Sign I think somewhere in that vicinity (don't hold me to that)
Yeah and spring in the Valley - oh man you get amped to do something long! And the south side routes why they face north and hold the cold a lot longer. So you might be all keen to jump on something testy and you look over there at El Cap basking in sunlight and suddenly you're
on 6p of the East Butt when the winds start kicking up. The first trickle of water drops blowing from the falls sorta clues you in real fast as to why the granite on that pitch has a particularly varnishy patina.
El Cap forms a bit of a funnel in the valley so those afternoon winds can get pretty stout. They are what let big wall climbers still get on in decent fashion, even in August.
So if the wind is decent? The East Butt gets HAMMERED.
In reply to: If I've got a wind shirt and no rain jacket, and it pours, am I screwed?
Depends. If you get nighted as a result of that storm, you could be in trouble depending upon how cold it gets that night. I only take rain-ish gear if I think I'll need it though.
Cheers. Sounds like you're in for a great run dude. You're gonna love it!
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Oct 1, 2008, 11:24 PM)
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brutusofwyde
Oct 8, 2008, 4:37 AM
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I always have the following items with me when climbing outdoors:
Butane lighter (and matches) Some modern china junk lighters come with an LED and a compass.
Benedryl (for allergic reactions) --~8 in a tiny tube -- My partner carries the epi-pen.
Water purification tablets ~8 in a tiny tube
Knife 1.5" blade on a lightweight keeper cord that fits around my wrist just tight enough that I can let the knife dangle and it will not slip off
Headlamp I generally carry a Zipka with fresh lithium batteries, and one set of spare batteries.
Caffeine tablets 4 tabs protected in duct tape
All of these items fit easily into the zip compartment of my chalk bag.
Chalk bag is connected to harness by a superlight Trango locking carabiner. A second locker is dedicated to my cleaning tool. a third holds two prussiks, (shoulder-length cord tied with double grapevine -- can be pressed into use as additional runners or untied and used as rap tat)
Descent shoes: Do you need them? I've walked the descent gully after Steck-Salathe numerous times in climbing shoes. On long climbs, it helps to have climbing shoes that are comfy for all day wear anyways. What sizes of shoe do you and your partner wear? Nurse Ratchet is half a size smaller in the foot than I, so on climbs where we really need descent shoes she wears my climbing shoes for the descent. That way we only need to take one pair of extra shoes for the walk off.
Agree with the other posters that if you need 3 liters of water, best to climb somewhere cooler.
Food: Skittles in a snack ziplock in the pocket. On really long climbs (SS for instance) toss in a candy bar and a cheese stick or two.
Go-light hooded wind shirt: smaller than an apple.
Agree with others: I'll take either the windbreaker or a lightweight rain jacket, but not both.
For an all day climb, I'll throw in one more piece of upper body clothing, either a long-sleeve shirt or a primaloft vest depending on wind and temperatures. Plus a lightweight fleece Balaclava. I take into consideration that I generally wear kneepads (and often neoprene elbow pads as well) and that these provide substantial additional insulation.
Another thought on climbs that are long and hard (for you) -- These days when I go to do Steck-Salathe, I'll go to the summit a day or two before, and stash descent shoes, food, water, and sleeping bags at the summit, because I know I'll be topping out at sunset or later. Always leave a note with such a stash, emphasizing that the gear is not abandoned and is critical for your survival.
If you are inventive and really fanatical about weight, it is possible, with occasional water sources, to do a three day climb comfortably in California carrying only your climbing gear and one Bullet pack apiece.
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EvilMonkey
Nov 6, 2008, 1:35 PM
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an alternative to taking food is power gel. that's usually all i take, plus a cliff bar. eat 1 every 45 min. till you run out, and you'll have tons of energy. something that i didn't notice mentioned is the weight of your rack. dmm phantom biners weigh 26 grams. camp nanos are around that too. get dyneema slings. ultra-light nuts and cams(if you can afford em). leave your #9 hex at home. think about a thinner rope. an alpine pack should be no heavier than 35 lbs without rack and rope. i bet you can get yours down to less than half that.
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fatoomchk
Dec 2, 2008, 12:37 PM
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EvilMonkey wrote: an alternative to taking food is power gel.
I know a lot of guy like gels here. I tried them a few times, but they upset my stomach a bit (despite experimenting with the amount of water I drink with them).
Now I really like dried figs. A huge long lasting energy boost, and they are a bit friendlier on my stomach. And they're cheaper too...
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rtwilli4
Dec 5, 2008, 5:28 PM
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I'm sure someone has hit on this already but it seems to me that you are carrying a lot of food and water. I've never climbed in Yosemite before but the routes you're talking about are like 10 pitches right?
Just drink and eat a lot the day before, and that morning. Take some nuts, jelly beans, bananas, a peanut butter sandwich or something that does a good job of filling you up... but not all of the above. Also... if it's cool enough that you are carrying a fleece, you can probably get away with 2 or 3 liters of water between the two of you.
Get a hydration pack with extra space that you can fit your own snacks in. If you are taking emergency gear like a headlamp or knife, you should have it clipped on your harness, a gear sling, or in a easily accessible pocket... not in a back pack.
Then the second can carry a small to medium pack that also takes a hydration pack. He carries all his own water and food, and your pair of shoes and fleece.
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chossmonkey
Dec 5, 2008, 6:06 PM
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Put drink mix in your water to cut down on food you need to take with. Make sure you are well hydrated before starting to climb and take less water.
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AlexCV
Dec 5, 2008, 7:25 PM
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In reply to: Also, are there any good alternatives to both Nalgenes and bladders? I've had three bladders leak on me over the years. Two from Camelbak, one from Platypus.
You can try the MSR dromedary or drom-lite water bladders with the optional hydration kit. Heavier then the platypus, but lined with cordura and a nalgene-like screwcap.
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vegastradguy
Dec 16, 2008, 8:57 PM
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Durin wrote: I've been climbing for about a year now, mostly indoors, but as of late I've started going to Yosemite a lot. I've done Snake Dike and Royal Arches, but last weekend I tried East Buttress of Middle Cathedral Rock and I found we were carrying too much stuff. For two people: 6 liters of water enough food for a day 2 fleece jackets 2 pairs of approach shoes The leader obviously starts with most of the rack and shouldn't carry nearly as much as the second, but still, 6 liters = 12 pounds of water, so I carried 3 liters while leading. We had a couple other little items like headlamps, knife, emergency blanket, a couple other little essentials. The forecast was perfectly sunny so we didn't bring any sort of rain jacket or windbreaker, though I do have very compact ones. It just seems to me that to be reasonably safe/prepared for an all-day route like east buttress of middle cathedral, or a harder one like steck salathe, each person needs approach shoes for the descent and a warm fleece jacket, but together with the food and water it's too heavy and bulky. Snake Dike and Royal Arches had such easy climbing that we just muscled through it with packs. Now that I'm getting into more technical climbs it just doesn't seem feasible. Any suggestions? My climbing partner and I both have LaSportiva Exum Ridge approach shoes and Columbia fleece jackets. Are there lighter and less cumbersome alternatives?
and how much of that water do you have left on top of the route? that's how much extra you should have left on the ground.
take a rain shell in place of a fleece- it'll do just fine for keeping you warm and stuffs to a fraction of the size and weight.
food = up to 4 packs of gu even for a big route.
headlamp = tikka or e-lite
no e-blanket.
knife- get the trango shark nut tool- has the knife built in.
and you carry your own approach shoes on a short tether (keeps them from annoying you up against the waist- mine is about 4" long).
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ladyscarlett
Dec 22, 2008, 8:51 PM
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My first all day multi pitch I definitely over packed. As a newbie, I'm a little paranoid about not being prepared. I didn't lead and cleaned for some pitches. Everyone carried their own stuff, though I had extra food - for which my partners were very grateful.
What I learned that day about packs -
- 2L+ of water is waaay to much for me. At the end of the day, I didn't even finish a liter. Mini nalgene (4-6oz) is really nice and convenient on the harness.
- Too much food - The dried squid and red bean cakes went fast (ha!), but brought too much light and sweet and not enough savoury protein (more cheese please!). My pack was much lighter toward the end of the day, but in the end I could have done with less.
- Sometimes being small is awesome! Kid sized Keens are light and small. My pack actually helped in the chimney, gave me extra inches of helpful girth. Our 6'2 leader had to bring his pack up clipped below him - yay for being smaller!
- I needed weight training - Now I climb with a small pack as much as possible to get used to it. I've only done a couple leads, without a pack, but once I get more confident, I'm going to wear that pack. People laugh, but it has paid off.
- Too many layers - Fleece was in my pack all day - the windproof vest however was a lifesaver.
Every time I go out, I learn more and more.
Do people always go out for the day as light as possible? or are there days you "splurge" and carry some heavier "treats" for the top - ie beer, donuts, etc? What has been the heaviest non-gear item you've brought on an all day adventure?
ls
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dingus
Dec 23, 2008, 3:59 PM
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ladyscarlett wrote: - Too much food - The dried squid and red bean cakes went fast (ha!), but brought too much light and sweet and not enough savoury protein (more cheese please!). My pack was much lighter toward the end of the day, but in the end I could have done with less.
Lady SCARLETT! One can NEVER have too mcuh SQUID on a rock climb! And the red bean cakes... why I have TWO OF THEM, stuffed in my pocket, RIGHT NOW!
(just ribbin ya, no worries)
I must say never in the history of my climbing have I heard of squid and red bean cakes as climbing food.
In reply to: Do people always go out for the day as light as possible? or are there days you "splurge" and carry some heavier "treats" for the top - ie beer, donuts, etc?
Of course - but one can splurge light too.
In reply to: What has been the heaviest non-gear item you've brought on an all day adventure?
For me beer wins this one, hands down. But all in all I prefer to avoid splurging for longer rock routes. Once the systems are dialed it is often better to splurge after you get back to the car.
DMT
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petsfed
Dec 23, 2008, 4:54 PM
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When I was doing a lot of all day routes (several years ago, now), my partner and I paired our mutual equipment down to 2 liters a piece in camelbacks, a couple of clif bars or fruit snacks (my go to energy food) in a pants pocket, and an incredibly streamlined rack. If weren't sure to need doubles of anything, we did not bring it. We didn't carry any piece larger than tight hands if we didn't need it. Wiregates on everything. At the end of any given pitch, I was typically cobbling together an anchor from the six or so nuts I had left. Between the two of us, we'd have a dozen slings. We carried only one nut tool, and about 6 locking carabiners (1 for each belay device, 1 for each daisy chain/cow's tail, 2 for utility)
The only reason we carried approach shoes was because all of the routes we did had mile-long approaches, and the walkoff deposited us back at the vehicle. I typically wore a t-shirt, a midweight capilene top, some lightweight softshell pants (much lighter than our usual carharts) and if it was chilly, a primaloft vest. I occasionaly brought a disposable camera, they tend to be lighter than any digital set up, although the image quality suffers considerably.
Our only luxury was a #9 hex, which served as our hand-sized piece, nut tool hammer, and emergency rappel device.
We also had changeovers dialed, and discussions were kept to a minimum. If I had to pass on a lead, my partner would take it, no questions asked. If he had to pass on a lead, I would take it. The climbs we did were all of a sort that the only way out was up. In fact, our mantra when gunning for the top was "lets get off this thing".
Your approach to all of these climbs is that the easiest way off is via the top, and all of your choices should be devoted to that goal. My bail slings, for instance, were primarily my long slings (I prefer tied double length slings, as I can convert them to an aider easier).
It will take some experience before you can start pairing your equipment down to what will enable a one-day ascent of anything, but keep in mind that once you plan for a comfortable bivouac, you're no longer going for in-a-day anything.
(This post was edited by petsfed on Dec 23, 2008, 4:55 PM)
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k.l.k
Dec 23, 2008, 5:14 PM
Post #48 of 56
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Registered: May 9, 2007
Posts: 1190
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dingus wrote: I must say never in the history of my climbing have I heard of squid and red bean cakes as climbing food. DMT
Dude, you're missing out. Red bean cakes rock. Moon cakes
. . .mmmmmmm.
But squid doesn't have enough calories for pocket food.
I usually splurge on one of those small fennel or piccante salamis from the Italian deli. Or maybe a piece of Mozz.
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sungam
Dec 23, 2008, 5:46 PM
Post #49 of 56
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
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From now on I'll be taking oatmeal creme pies. I can't believe how much energy is in those things.
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villageidiot
Dec 23, 2008, 7:55 PM
Post #50 of 56
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Registered: May 12, 2005
Posts: 104
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I've never climbed in Yosemite and have a perspective shaped by shorter Colorado routes, where an electrical storm is nearly guaranteed between 2:00 and 4:00, I think alot of this still applies.
I generally rack on my harness and hate crap dangling off it, so no water bottles or rain jackets. If I am carrying shoes one goes on each of the back loops. I find the BD bullet pack to be pretty comfortable to climb in and it holds a nalgene, headlamp, extra clothing, and rain jacket.
Depending on the temps I go with a pint or a quart of water.
I'd don't carry a knife, but often have a razor blade taped on the back of my helmet, not ideal, but light. Knives on harnesses scare me, I have missed be hit by inches from "securely" clipped ones.
I almost always leave the shoes on the ground as I am a dumb redneck who often belays barefoot in broken glass. Occasionally it slows me down, but I can keep up with most of my partners threw rock, jaggers, and the occasional snow patch. This does not work for all routes.
A rain jacket is usually a must as is some other clothing. Maybe I am a wuss, but I can't belay in 30 degree shade, wearing the same clothing I would climb in 70 degree sun.
Like several other people have said, do not agree to having the second carrying the pack. You end up with 3 times the weight.
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