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dingus
Dec 8, 2008, 10:09 PM
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jrathfon wrote: A rubbermaid tub would eliminate the soggy cardboard problem.
A sober thought....
DMT
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:11 PM
Post #27 of 75
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jrathfon wrote: A rubbermaid tub is about $3 at walmart. A beer case box with a garbage bag liner is ~$14-30 depending on the quality, but comes with 24 beers. You can pack snow into either to make a pseudo igloo (out of snow not ice). We made a really nice snow-gloo in my backyard and camped in it for 3 days with only 5 inches of snow. (I was probably 14) The only thing we used were 3 boxes and 3 garbage bags to form the blocks, then just pack all the joints with snow to make it seamless. A rubbermaid tub would eliminate the soggy cardboard problem.
Didn't actually read the link did you? 
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jrathfon
Dec 8, 2008, 10:13 PM
Post #28 of 75
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The link for a $179 snow tool? Or the busted one requiring me to subscribe?
Both are ridiculous in their own way.
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:26 PM
Post #29 of 75
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jrathfon wrote: The link for a $179 snow tool? Or the busted one requiring me to subscribe? Both are ridiculous in their own way.
I'll give you the cliff notes version then:
From the online artical, an objective assesment:
Out of the box, the Icebox comes in a compact flat package measuring 24 inches x 14 inches x 3 inches. All of the components fit neatly inside the two halves of the block-molding form, and the unit is secured with two nylon straps. It’s concave on one side and easily attaches to the front of a backpack. With a packed weight of about 5 pounds (depending on which components you take), the Icebox is fairly lightweight (about the same weight as a 2-person tent) and very packable.
The Grand Shelters Icebox Igloo Building Tool collapses to a compact 5 pound package (top left) that can easily be attached to a backpack. A long-handled shovel is essential to reach snow at the top of the igloo, and adds about 2 pounds to the carry weight. Inside (top right and bottom) are an assortment of parts that assemble to create the block-molding form and pivot rod shown in the next photos.
Compared to conventional igloo building methods - where you cut snow blocks, carry them to the igloo, and shape them to fit - the Icebox follows a completely different approach. It uses the basic concept of a cement form to construct the blocks in place. The main components are a center stake, a pivot rod, and a slip form at the end of the pivot rod which is packed with snow to create the snow blocks. The center stake and pivot rod serve to create a perfect dome-shaped igloo. With the slip form, the wall of the igloo is built by creating inclined blocks in place while advancing in a spiral. The result is a perfect igloo which is structurally a very strong shape. The cross-section is actually a catenary curve where the pressure pushing in is equalized by the pressure pushing down.
The Icebox block-making form is attached to a pivot rod that rotates around a center stake (left). The form is open on the right side (right) to allow it to overlap the previous block. Note: The igloo shown in the left photo is a poor example; it was our first one using scarce, poor quality snow.
To get the spiral started, you need to build three partial blocks to create a ramp (see photo below). Also it’s critical that the first layer be set at the correct inward angle. With each successive layer, five to eight in all, the length of the pivot rod is adjusted to place the slip form in exactly the right place and inward angle. The walls curve sharply inward at the top of the igloo, so the process changes to the person inside using only one side of the slip form to support the advancing wall being packed by a person on the outside.
Stages of igloo building. The first steps are to pack a platform and precisely angle the first course so it’s at the correct angle (left top). The first three blocks create a ramp, and the igloo is built as a succession of courses in a spiral (top right and middle left). The final courses are built against one side of the slip form (middle right). After the igloo is closed in, an entrance hole is dug to let the (panicked) form handler out (bottom left). Grand Shelters offers an optional fabric door to seal the entrance (bottom right).
The Grand Shelters Icebox Igloo Building Tool makes igloo building more do-able and fun for the average person. It handles the engineering aspects for you (which some people would argue is part of the challenge and fun), but leaves plenty of technique for you to master. Bottom line, it takes some determination and effort to master the technique, but once you become skilled, igloo building is a wonderful winter activity in snow country. Using the tool with any type of packable snow is relatively easy, however sugar snow is challenging but do-able.
What’s Unique
With the Grand Shelters Icebox Igloo Building Tool you use a slip form and pivot rod to build snow blocks sequentially in place, which is a lot easier and dryer compared to the conventional method of cutting blocks with a snow saw, carrying them, and fitting them.
Recommendations for Improvement
The Icebox is well designed and constructed. In many ways it’s a specialty tool that needs to be accepted on its own terms. However, a few tweaks here and there would help make it more user-friendly:
Re-write sections of the user manual to provide clearer instructions. The current narrative requires several reads to understand the process.
Provide a sturdier center stake that is less likely to loosen.
Revise the design of the slip form at the U-bar end so it doesn’t slip down (with the present design, the form handler has to hold the form so it doesn’t slip down).
Provide a card summarizing the pivot rod settings that can be taken to the field, and/or improve the list imprinted on the slip form so it’s more easily understood.
Simplify the strap system that secures the collapsed Icebox tool - possibly by putting arrows on the form to indicate the direction the straps are inserted.
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dingus
Dec 8, 2008, 10:31 PM
Post #30 of 75
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I wonder how much stinky and crowded (but ostensibly warm and dry) accomodations $180 will buy a winter resort worker?
DMT
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:35 PM
Post #31 of 75
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That is a very good question!
I've gear tested the igloo builder thingie and it can sleep four adults quite comfortably (edit: aka they will fit in the igloo with room to spare).
(This post was edited by chadnsc on Dec 8, 2008, 10:56 PM)
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jrathfon
Dec 8, 2008, 10:35 PM
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Right, so my point was that a plastic tub can either a) be found or b) be bought for $3, maybe $2. It's not as fancy, but it sure isn't $179.
To me that thing equates to those meatball maker looking things for snowballs...
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dingus
Dec 8, 2008, 10:39 PM
Post #33 of 75
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chadnsc wrote: That is a very good question! I've gear tested the igloo builder thingie and it can sleep four adults quite comfortably.
4 adults are not going to be spending the winter in one of those faux-igloo things, much less comfortably.
Cheers though!
DMT
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:43 PM
Post #35 of 75
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jrathfon wrote: Right, so my point was that a plastic tub can either a) be found or b) be bought for $3, maybe $2. It's not as fancy, but it sure isn't $179. To me that thing equates to those meatball maker looking things for snowballs...
That is correct, but the plastic tub approach:
1. Isn’t as strong.
2. Requires a certain density of snow.
3. Requires a good deal more skill.
4. Is detrimentally effected by high winds (the snow chinking gets blown away).
5. It is very inexpensive!
I think the main advantages of the igloo thingie are:
1. Creates a very strong, monolithic snow structure. (I’ve stood atop the igloos without any damage!)
2. Can be built using poor density snow.
3. Requires less skill.
4. Takes less time (3 hours).
Of course it's a $180 and a plastic tub and snow saw are only $25. Personally I wouldn't buy one because I use a pyramid tarp for a fast and light winter shelter. I just thought I throw it out there for the OP. Maybe the OP can find one to borrow?
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:48 PM
Post #36 of 75
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dingus wrote: 4 adults are not going to be spending the winter in one of those faux-igloo things, much less comfortably. Cheers though! DMT
Whoops! I forgot to mention that in the pictures show the people are building a smaller igloo. The igloos can get as big as 10' in diameter.
That igloo in the picture would be rather intimate with four people!
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dingus
Dec 8, 2008, 10:50 PM
Post #37 of 75
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The reality as described by graniteboy is a Hell that is completely damp when its not frozen solid. I have a tough time envisioning the depression of having to work all day in a winter dump (instead of boarding haha) and then having to go squirm into a frozen hole in the ground for 16 hours of dark.
The very thought of it makes me say Ba Ha! Outloud. And I'm an avid skier!
DMT
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chadnsc
Dec 8, 2008, 10:55 PM
Post #38 of 75
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I'm not going to disagree with you on that one! I've spent two continuous week’s winter backpacking in four feet of snow.
If I were in the OP shoes I'd be using a pyramid tarp with a floor. Better yet a bunk house!
If I had to sleep in a snow shelter for a short period of time I would build it with the igloo thingie as up here we don't have access to the deep, dense snow that many of you have.
(This post was edited by chadnsc on Dec 8, 2008, 10:57 PM)
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climbingaggie03
Dec 9, 2008, 8:07 PM
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dingus wrote: graniteboy wrote: Yeah, well, there's not much that's romantic about being homeless in the winter, no matter where you are.... I'd go with one of these 'snow caves', all other things being equal  DMT
That is a nice rig, unfourtunately I'll be rolling in this
[URL=http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0475ig8.jpg]
thanks to everyone for the advice though, I think I am going to pick up one of the igloo makers. I have a tent, but I figure that with sub zero lows likely that a snow shelter will be more comfortable. I'm tempted by the idea of having both, although I think the maintenance of keeping a tent from being collapsed and keeping an igloo in good shape will be a little more work than I want to do.
I have plenty of places to hang out and spend time, I just don't have any place to sleep/store my stuff. I still might do employee housing, but it is small stinky and shared, but it is warm. Right now I'm just hoping that Summit county will get enough snow so that I can build a snow shelter.
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climbingaggie03
Dec 9, 2008, 8:11 PM
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dingus wrote: I wonder how much stinky and crowded (but ostensibly warm and dry) accomodations $180 will buy a winter resort worker? DMT
yo dingus, where I work employee housing is $10 a night plus deposit, so that would get you 18 nights of lodging, seeing as I'm going to be there for 3 months, that's not very much. And I've looked into other housing options, but apts and rooms start at $650/month
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graniteboy
Dec 9, 2008, 10:59 PM
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This topic seems to have drifted into the realm of the much touted, but rarely lived in Igloo.
But before you take these folks advice (special fancy igloo block maker or not) , you should remember that Colorado is famous for snow with a low water content. That's why we all go ski powder there.
And Low water content snow is the worst possible stuff to build an igloo from, because it cannot withstand the wind. There's more than one reason why Eskimos use Igloos, but the Ute indians never did.
In order to make a good igloo block out of that fluffy colorado snow, you'll have to add water and let it freeze up. You cannot generate enough pressure by hand packing to create a solid piece of pack ice, irrespective of fancy little boxes that act as forms.
Upshot: If you do end up living in a snow shelter, I would strongly recommend that you not consider an igloo...unless you were thinking of working up in the baffin island area or Prudhoe bay...where the proper pack ice exists.
As I haven't heard from anyone else in here who has actually lived in a snow cave or igloo for more than a week or 3, I would suggest you take my advice to heart; If you absolutely have to live in a snow shelter, use a cave. And try to stay in a tent when the weather is mild....using the cave for foul weather. But better yet is to figure out how to live under a roof....and with the kind of piss ant wages they give you for teaching skiing, that's an art all of it's own.
Good luck. And Consider going to Josh for the winter and teaching climbing instead.
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climbingaggie03
Dec 10, 2008, 12:49 AM
Post #42 of 75
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Thanks Graniteboy, I appreciate the advice, The good news is that I'm not an instructor, I drive a bus, so I do get paid more than the instructors, but it's still not enough to pay for an apt. I can afford employee housing, but I hate sharing a room, and it's cramped. I'll definitely take my tent, between guiding and personal trips, I'm used to living in my tent for months at a time.
I'll probably get the igloo maker from Return Everything Inside, so if it doesn't work, i can always take it back, and I've dug my share of caves and quinzee's so I'm sure I can make something work.
my main reason for not wanting to go with the tent is I only have a 0 degree sleeping bag, I do have another bag that I could put on top of it, but I'm still not sure if that would keep me from shivering if it's -20 at night, and while I know that last year was a particularly cold and snowy winter, I saw a low of -15 in march. I don't really want to buy a -20 to -40 sleeping bag, although it's an option and if I could sell it afterward, or use it on another trip, it might be the best option.
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zeke_sf
Dec 10, 2008, 1:48 AM
Post #43 of 75
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dingus wrote: I wonder how much stinky and crowded (but ostensibly warm and dry) accomodations $180 will buy a winter resort worker? DMT
I suspect you are with me in wondering how much this wild man of the forest stuff is going to really make sense at the end of a work day when you're tired and a warm cot will do.
Buy that van, dude!
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dingus
Dec 10, 2008, 3:26 AM
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Ah he comes across reasonable. I hope he reports back from time to time, sorta like going up the Congo in Heart of Darkness?
(the horror.... the horror)
Cheers cave dude, good luck!
DMT
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graniteboy
Dec 10, 2008, 5:40 AM
Post #45 of 75
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Other thing about an igloo is that it stands out like a sore thumb, and attracts humans.
Snow caves are easier to keep a lot less visible.
Just get the bartender job, and maybe pole dance at the gay bar once a week, teabags and all, and the living quarters will become affordable.
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the_leech
Dec 10, 2008, 5:43 AM
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dingus wrote: Ah he comes across reasonable. I hope he reports back from time to time, sorta like going up the Congo in Heart of Darkness? (the horror.... the horror)
Most philistines would attribute that quote to Apocalypse Now.
But not Dingus.
He knows the truth.
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escalabrasil
Dec 10, 2008, 8:33 AM
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ask an eskimo!  seriously....
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zeke_sf
Dec 10, 2008, 2:19 PM
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the_leech wrote: dingus wrote: Ah he comes across reasonable. I hope he reports back from time to time, sorta like going up the Congo in Heart of Darkness? (the horror.... the horror) Most philistines would attribute that quote to Apocalypse Now. But not Dingus. He knows the truth.
Having read the book and seen the movie, I honestly don't know if I'd ever have connected the two if I didn't know it was the inspiration. I mean, it's obvious after you know, but I suppose that's just the kind of guy I am.
Anyway, yeah, good luck cave dude. If you really do the powder puff igloo, you should report back here. Some kind of Blair Witch style video-journal would be nice as well.
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camhead
Dec 10, 2008, 3:08 PM
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Graniteboy's advice is quite good, and reminded me of the few attempts in which I messed with snow shelters in Northern Utah, which has similar dry snow. I messed with trying to pack together igloo blocks quite a bit, to no avail, although I did not have an overpriced gadget to do it with.
More successful were caves, either dug in natural drifts or in piles that I made. Although I never spent more than a couple days at a time in them, one did last for several months, and I went back to it repeatedly, so they are definitely durable.
Another option that may not be do-able for your timeframe is for you is to construct a simple frame shelter out of poles, brush, and maybe a tarp, and situate it so it will get buried in snow in the winter, providing it with all the insulation of a snow cave or igloo. I had a friend do this for one season, and it lasted quite well.
If you do go with the tent, which I do not think would be that bad, you should be good with purchasing another cheaper three-season bag to throw over your two. And dig a trench to put your tent in and shelter it.
I'll be interested in hearing about how this works out for you!
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altelis
Dec 10, 2008, 7:27 PM
Post #50 of 75
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camhead wrote: Another option that may not be do-able for your timeframe is for you is to construct a simple frame shelter out of poles, brush, and maybe a tarp, and situate it so it will get buried in snow in the winter, providing it with all the insulation of a snow cave or igloo. I had a friend do this for one season, and it lasted quite well.
ie a yurt- this is what i suggested above, and will give it +3 here (does my first suggestion count?)
i think this will be the best/sturdiest/roomiest for your time frame. if you invested in some pvc or cheap metal piping you could even get a fire pit going in the yurt!
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