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acadiaclmber


Dec 26, 2008, 5:55 PM
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Sport Draws
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I am building up a trad rack, and was wondering what the specific reason is that sport quick draws aren't supposed to be used for trad climbing. Is it only because they don't extend like draws made with tripled runners?


pendereki


Dec 26, 2008, 6:11 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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     Sport draws, commonly known as quickdraws, are too short and too stiff. This often does not allow the rope to run in a straight enough line and makes it more likely for wiggle in the rope to translate into wiggle in the piece of protection. Both of these scenerios lead to a greater possibility of the protection moving or being removed from the rock by the rope as the leader progresses (or falls). A shoulder length runner and two carabiners isolate rope movement from the protection better than a quickdraw.


CM


suilenroc


Dec 26, 2008, 6:14 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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acadiaclmber wrote:
I am building up a trad rack, and was wondering what the specific reason is that sport quick draws aren't supposed to be used for trad climbing. Is it only because they don't extend like draws made with tripled runners?

Not sure where this information came from but they are useful. I usually carry a few for stoppers and chains...


acadiaclmber


Dec 26, 2008, 6:22 PM
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Re: [suilenroc] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll be swapping out the dogbones for runners shortly!


caughtinside


Dec 26, 2008, 7:11 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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While you do need 2' runners, the notion that sport style quicks are no good for trad is simply incorrect. I use several, and so do many trad climbers I know.

Using only extendable runners and no sport style draws isn't wrong, but it certainly isn't mandatory. You don't have to extend every runner and sometimes it's nice to have a quick clip and go draw, rather than have to deal with an upside down biner. Plus, if you already have sport draws, it saves you having to buy a bunch of runners.


MikeSaint


Dec 26, 2008, 8:55 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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Have a mix both. The advantage to the 'trad draw' is that you can always extend if needed. You never know when you find yourself stepping around an arete only to experience terrible rope drag. You'll curse the wallet then and there for it. Wink

Eye the line of climbing appropriately.


ServiceAceStud


Dec 26, 2008, 9:05 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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Once you've seen a quickdraw pull a nut or help a cam walk you'll see that having runners to extend is necessary for trad climbers, but it can be a pain sometimes when you just want to clip in. Runners can be harder to clip into, especially on overhanging routes. I generally carry half and half QD to runner ratio and of th QD's I got half 5' and half 7". I've done routes with no runners, but I've done them with like 9 extended pieces. Having runners is necessary, but once you understand when you can get away with not using them and when you do need them your much better off. Plus you'll need them for sport too.


Partner angry


Dec 26, 2008, 9:17 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.


macblaze


Dec 26, 2008, 10:33 PM
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angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

That coating's mildly hallucinogenic too right? I've often noticed I am much crazier when sport climbing than when trad climbing...


Maddhatter


Dec 27, 2008, 1:49 AM
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Guess this 2 min in my life are gone forever.


rjtrials


Dec 27, 2008, 7:12 AM
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Re: [caughtinside] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
While you do need 2' runners, the notion that sport style quicks are no good for trad is simply incorrect. I use several, and so do many trad climbers I know.

Using only extendable runners and no sport style draws isn't wrong, but it certainly isn't mandatory. You don't have to extend every runner and sometimes it's nice to have a quick clip and go draw, rather than have to deal with an upside down biner. Plus, if you already have sport draws, it saves you having to buy a bunch of runners.

I always carry two 2' runners on my sporty rack. I HATE having to fiddle with the biner so i put the little rubber diapers on the rope side biner to hold it to the webbing and prevent the flippage. A couple wraps of tape work just as well. As an added bonus, it is much easier to extend as well.

RJ


currupt4130


Dec 28, 2008, 3:22 PM
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Re: [angry] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

So is that why the biners I scavenged from some quick draws are eating through my slings? I've already had two slings melt through, and they both had biners from a quickdraw on them.


USnavy


Dec 29, 2008, 7:55 PM
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angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

I hope your kidding. Crazy


suilenroc


Dec 29, 2008, 8:00 PM
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USnavy wrote:
angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

I hope your kidding. Crazy

Why would he be kidding... galvanic corrosion is a pretty serious matter, if you don't know about it yet you should check this out...


(This post was edited by suilenroc on Dec 29, 2008, 8:00 PM)


coolcat83


Dec 29, 2008, 8:07 PM
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angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.




jt512


Dec 29, 2008, 9:17 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

I hope your kidding. Crazy

He's dead serious.

Jay


grampacharlie


Jan 2, 2009, 2:23 PM
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Re: [acadiaclmber] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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If I'm on a trad climb that is pushing my limits, I will always reach for a sport draw on a tricky stance rather than a runner. Sport draws are designed for ease of clipping when it really matters. If I grab a runner and then have to spend a few seconds fumbling around with biners that have rotated, or twisted nylon, i might not get that crucial clip.
On long routes, or just cragging I carry half sport draws, half extendables.

My $.02


lagwagonpcp


Jan 2, 2009, 4:13 PM
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galvanic corrosion?! just when i thought it was safe to go to the crag, this galvanic corrosion shit stresses me outUnsure


tradrenn


Jan 4, 2009, 9:15 PM
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Instead of dogbones try using 1 foot slings and still use the rubber thingy on rope end of your draw.
I find it to be working quite well on gear and bolts.


granite_grrl


Jan 5, 2009, 6:08 AM
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Re: [tradrenn] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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tradrenn wrote:
Instead of dogbones try using 1 foot slings and still use the rubber thingy on rope end of your draw.
I find it to be working quite well on gear and bolts.
You don't often need draws that long when you're sport climbing, but there are sport routes where it does help to have one or two like that.


charley


Jan 5, 2009, 6:40 AM
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My draws must be as old as I am. I don't think I have rubber thingys on mine. Is it still safe protection?


dingus


Jan 5, 2009, 7:08 AM
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Re: [Maddhatter] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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Maddhatter wrote:
Guess this 2 min in my life are gone forever.

Now you know how we feel.

All of us.

DMT


dingus


Jan 5, 2009, 7:08 AM
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charley wrote:
My draws must be as old as I am. I don't think I have rubber thingys on mine. Is it still safe protection?

Yes but you can't get as high using them.

DMT


keep_it_real


Jan 5, 2009, 3:50 PM
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Re: [angry] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.

This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).

It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.


(This post was edited by keep_it_real on Jan 5, 2009, 3:52 PM)


kriso9tails


Jan 5, 2009, 3:54 PM
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keep_it_real wrote:
I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

I hope that you aren't being sarcastic/ kidding, 'cause that's f'n awesome.


dingus


Jan 5, 2009, 4:18 PM
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keep_it_real wrote:
I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.

This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).

It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.

^^^^^^

How to make an 'angry' man laugh out loud....

DMT


suilenroc


Jan 5, 2009, 4:33 PM
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keep_it_real wrote:
I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.

This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).

It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughShockedLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh


shimanilami


Jan 5, 2009, 4:42 PM
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Re: [currupt4130] Sport Draws [In reply to]
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currupt4130 wrote:
angry wrote:
A sport draw has a special coating to resist galvanic corrosion with the bolt. Likewise, that is why there is a rubber ring inside the sport draw. To protect the webbing from this coating.

A trad draw does not have this rubber ring or coating. It saves a lot of weight but really shouldn't be attached to a bolt for this reason.

So is that why the biners I scavenged from some quick draws are eating through my slings? I've already had two slings melt through, and they both had biners from a quickdraw on them.

Dude, that's why you triple over trad draws. It provides redundancy in case one strand breaks.


tradrenn


Jan 7, 2009, 1:20 PM
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granite_grrl wrote:
tradrenn wrote:
Instead of dogbones try using 1 foot slings and still use the rubber thingy on rope end of your draw.
I find it to be working quite well on gear and bolts.
You don't often need draws that long when you're sport climbing, but there are sport routes where it does help to have one or two like that.

That would depend on how often one sport climbs vs how often one trad climbs, wouldn't it ?

Edit: This thread is just getting better and better.


(This post was edited by tradrenn on Jan 7, 2009, 1:22 PM)


ltj999


Jan 7, 2009, 1:24 PM
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I keep 3 or 4 sport draws on my rack, I find they come in handy from time to time for clipping pins, or the occasional bolt.. no harm done :)


moof


Jan 8, 2009, 2:20 PM
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To get back to being slightly serious...

If you're mixing your "sport" draws into your trad rack, inspect them for dings and burrs first. When trad climbing it's pretty darn common to clip and go, totally ignoring the rope end versus the bolt end. As a result of this, it sucks to fuzz up your rope on a burr left from your recent sport whips.

Buff out any burrs with some emery paper, or keep those gauged/burred biners on the sport racklet.

For the record, I carry roughly a half dozen "sport" draws, half dozen 12" draws (some doubled), and a half dozen "trad" tripled draws when climbing. Depending on the route I will usually leave a few in the pack, and occasionally bring a screamer or two for pins and thin nuts.

Sport climbing is neither.


Partner angry


Jan 12, 2009, 7:55 PM
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keep_it_real wrote:
I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.

This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).

It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.

Oh sweet jesus that's awesome!!


billcoe_


Jan 12, 2009, 9:40 PM
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Ask Angry about the need for a "Trad" Chalkbag instead of a "Sport" chalkbag. I have had mine save my ass at least twice cause I had it instead of the "Sport" Chalkbag.

I had it out just the other day was was damn fortunate too. Here it was the other day I'm following a route, it's the powder puff blue baby on my right side. My freind said it was 31 degrees back in town when He went through at 11:30 am but it may have hit 40 something although it just seemed cold. The inside of the crack was wet too.

ps, I saw Moof out there same day soloing. Helped him carry ropes in and later saw him @ just30 feet left and maybe 300+ more feet up or so. He was but a small spec in the sky. Wish I had a picture of him to post.


(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Jan 12, 2009, 9:46 PM)


blueeyedclimber


Jan 13, 2009, 7:17 AM
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keep_it_real wrote:
I hope you weren't being sarcastic/kidding about the galvanic corrosion because I'm going to feel pretty stupid if you were. I emailed a BD Rep about it cause I'd rather not have my slings breaking. Here's what he said:

Where did you read such a thing? BD does not use any such 'coating' on
any of its quickdraws so it's a little difficult to comment. I've
actually never heard of this. Make sure you're getting good info.

This rubber 'ring' actually has to do with holding the rope-end biner
firmly in place so it doesn't flip around when you're trying to clip it
from a tough stance (it's quicker, easier to do, etc).

It's perfectly fine to use Quicksilver or Oz Draws and/or Carabiners for
any style of climbing/mountaineering use.

Sorry, keep_it_real, but where I'm from, they call that being "duped!"

Angry has a bad habit of saying rediculous nonsense and not putting a Laugh or aWink or a Tongue, Cool, or Smile after it.

Josh


keep_it_real


Jan 13, 2009, 7:46 AM
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makes me feel a little better...


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