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justroberto
Mar 20, 2009, 3:43 PM
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acorneau wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: acorneau wrote: I'm going to try to get in a passive-only climb this weekend. Back to the basics!  Sweat will go easily if you have big tri-cams. Yeah, I have a full set, but will probably leave them at home and take the nuts and hexes instead. We were on Sweat a couple weeks ago and I didn't think about the all-passive send. Probably will be on other stuff this weekend anyway. Perhaps something in the Triple Cracks area.... 
Owl Crack would certainly be the easiest since it's the smallest.
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acorneau
Mar 23, 2009, 2:25 AM
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Well, I didn't get my all-passive climb in this weekend. Maybe when we go to the Wichita's.....
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Lazlo
Mar 23, 2009, 2:37 PM
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There's a particular climb that I love and climb often. Back before I had cams, I'd always place a large hex in the one trad pro option...now-a-days I automatically take a #2 Camalot with me instead. The hex is bomber enough....but I always take the cam. Why, i wonder? Easier to place, I guess....or remove rather.
Cams are just sexy. Bottom line. 
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camhead
Mar 23, 2009, 2:51 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: acorneau wrote: I'm going to try to get in a passive-only climb this weekend. Back to the basics! Sweat will go easily if you have big tri-cams.
meh. Sweat goes easily as a v0- boulder problem.
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apeman_e
Mar 23, 2009, 3:53 PM
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The amish protect their climbs with ONLY passive gear. Active gear is the work of the devil, though some amish youth experiment with cams as teenagers.
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dingus
Mar 23, 2009, 3:57 PM
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apeman_e wrote: The amish protect their climbs with ONLY passive gear. Active gear is the work of the devil, though some amish youth experiment with cams as teenagers.
One thing is for certain... Amish climbers NEVER zipper their pro. NEVER!
DMT
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Lazlo
Mar 23, 2009, 5:27 PM
Post #32 of 77
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dingus wrote: apeman_e wrote: The amish protect their climbs with ONLY passive gear. Active gear is the work of the devil, though some amish youth experiment with cams as teenagers. One thing is for certain... Amish climbers NEVER zipper their pro. NEVER! DMT
Ummm. Am I missing out on some inside joke?
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camhead
Mar 23, 2009, 5:33 PM
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Lazlo wrote: dingus wrote: apeman_e wrote: The amish protect their climbs with ONLY passive gear. Active gear is the work of the devil, though some amish youth experiment with cams as teenagers. One thing is for certain... Amish climbers NEVER zipper their pro. NEVER! DMT Ummm. Am I missing out on some inside joke?
yes. Amish do not use zippers. It was funny. hehehe.
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northfacejmb
Mar 23, 2009, 5:33 PM
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Yeah, yet as my first trad lead I placed 14 pieces of pro on that short climb...
What a noob I was then..
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Lazlo
Mar 23, 2009, 5:39 PM
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camhead wrote: Lazlo wrote: dingus wrote: apeman_e wrote: The amish protect their climbs with ONLY passive gear. Active gear is the work of the devil, though some amish youth experiment with cams as teenagers. One thing is for certain... Amish climbers NEVER zipper their pro. NEVER! DMT Ummm. Am I missing out on some inside joke? yes. Amish do not use zippers. It was funny. hehehe.
Ah. Gotcha. I over thought it.
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diebetes
Mar 23, 2009, 5:59 PM
Post #36 of 77
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grampacharlie wrote: Make sure that the first placement is multi-directional. Very important, or you could zipper everything out on a fall. (look in How to Rock Climb, by John Long for a good illustration on zippering)
...Making sure your first piece is multi-directional is not a guarantee that zippering will not occur. Think of the line that the rope will take once weighted- on wandery routes, all the gear in the middle could zipper, leaving the first and the last pieces. Be careful.
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dr_feelgood
Mar 23, 2009, 8:55 PM
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camhead wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: acorneau wrote: I'm going to try to get in a passive-only climb this weekend. Back to the basics! Sweat will go easily if you have big tri-cams. meh. Sweat goes easily as a v0- boulder problem.
This is true. However, when the gloriously epic summit of enchanted rock is only 20 higher, it is almost a waste to not practice gear placements.
You are speaking to a guy who managed to do the 10 pitch traverse of the main dome out of sheer boredom.
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curt
Mar 23, 2009, 9:48 PM
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sungam wrote: Lazlo wrote: andrewG wrote: sungam wrote: Hexes aren't always passive. What about tricams and big bros? What about sliding nuts? I consider anything that relies on twisting, camming, or other movements to stay in positions. To me this includes cammed hexes, ball nutz, cammed tricams, cam hooks (leepers), copperheads and big bros. Passive includes threads, nuts, wedged hexes, pins, hooks, wedged tricams, wedged knots, chockstones, and cams with stops that are placed fully open (when you already used the right sized nut or whatever). But of course that's just me.
Fuckin' kids these days. I tell 'ya. Any gear that is not spring loaded is "passive" even if it relies on camming action. Duh...
Curt
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chossmonkey
Mar 23, 2009, 9:52 PM
Post #39 of 77
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acorneau wrote: Well, I didn't get my all-passive climb in this weekend. Maybe when we go to the Wichita's.....
It can be good to climb on only passive gear sometimes. It will improve your climbing if you normally reach for cams first.
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rogue10186
Mar 24, 2009, 3:36 AM
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That bad huh? How is the traverse, I've thought about doing it next time I'm out that way for shitz and giggles.
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slavetogravity
Mar 24, 2009, 5:10 AM
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Climbed with this cat in Australia back in 03. Not only would this guy ONLY climb with a rack of passive gear, he also refused to use chalk and refused to ware climbing shoes. He would lead 5.11 face and crack with ease. Crazy but true.
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jt512
Mar 24, 2009, 6:37 AM
Post #42 of 77
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granite_grrl wrote: The subject of this thread pains me.
I feel your pain.
Jay
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the_climber
Mar 25, 2009, 4:45 AM
Post #44 of 77
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dr_feelgood wrote: camhead wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: acorneau wrote: I'm going to try to get in a passive-only climb this weekend. Back to the basics! Sweat will go easily if you have big tri-cams. meh. Sweat goes easily as a v0- boulder problem. This is true. However, when the gloriously epic summit of enchanted rock is only 20 higher, it is almost a waste to not practice gear placements. You are speaking to a guy who managed to do the 10 pitch traverse of the main dome out of sheer boredom.
He also happens to be a guy who can't make it up a route "boy scouts" climb and not break his leg.
.......sorry Doc... I had too..  here, have a beer... it's not PBR, but it is the Tank House Ale I've ben drinking for the past several hours... pretty good shit if I say so myself.
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i_h8_choss
Mar 25, 2009, 5:46 AM
Post #45 of 77
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this post, along with the footage in the sharp end plus matt samet's article in climbing had me thinking of how good that rock will be for my grandkids to climb on. unlike the dirty grungy crappy overused holds that are out there now.
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vegastradguy
Mar 25, 2009, 5:48 AM
Post #46 of 77
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Lazlo wrote: slavetogravity wrote: [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/187451-largest_30875.jpg[/image] Climbed with this cat in Australia back in 03. Not only would this guy ONLY climb with a rack of passive gear, he also refused to use chalk and refused to ware climbing shoes. He would lead 5.11 face and crack with ease. Crazy but true. Dang! That's impressive. I admire his desire to stay true to his style!
very impressive- i'm shocked he uses a harness- you'd think he'd just tie in with a bowline around his waist!
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dobson
Mar 25, 2009, 6:04 AM
Post #47 of 77
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sungam wrote: Of course they all create friction, but in a 0 friction world nuts would still work, wouldn't they?
Nuts would not function in a zero friction world. They would either split or crush the rock with outward force, or the force would destroy the nut itself.
If you'd like to do the math, notice that as you reduce friction and taper angle, outward force increases. There's an asymptote at zero friction or angle where outward force approaches infinity.
Of course this is all theoretical, and has no place in the real world; nor do arbitrary gear definitions. It all makes interesting discussions, but I don't take it to the rock.
I place what I need to to be safe. I try not to get into a rut, though. By practicing lesser-used placements, I'm prepared to safely climb in a greater variety of conditions.
Phillip
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yay_chris
Apr 23, 2009, 5:42 PM
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dobson wrote: sungam wrote: Of course they all create friction, but in a 0 friction world nuts would still work, wouldn't they? Nuts would not function in a zero friction world. They would either split or crush the rock with outward force, or the force would destroy the nut itself. If you'd like to do the math, notice that as you reduce friction and taper angle, outward force increases. There's an asymptote at zero friction or angle where outward force approaches infinity. Of course this is all theoretical, and has no place in the real world; nor do arbitrary gear definitions. It all makes interesting discussions, but I don't take it to the rock. I place what I need to to be safe. I try not to get into a rut, though. By practicing lesser-used placements, I'm prepared to safely climb in a greater variety of conditions. Phillip
WIN.
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sungam
Apr 23, 2009, 6:54 PM
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curt wrote: sungam wrote: Lazlo wrote: andrewG wrote: sungam wrote: Hexes aren't always passive. What about tricams and big bros? What about sliding nuts? I consider anything that relies on twisting, camming, or other movements to stay in positions. To me this includes cammed hexes, ball nutz, cammed tricams, cam hooks (leepers), copperheads and big bros. Passive includes threads, nuts, wedged hexes, pins, hooks, wedged tricams, wedged knots, chockstones, and cams with stops that are placed fully open (when you already used the right sized nut or whatever). But of course that's just me. Fuckin' kids these days. I tell 'ya. Any gear that is not spring loaded is "passive" even if it relies on camming action. Duh... Curt
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Factor2
Apr 23, 2009, 7:16 PM
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sungam wrote: curt wrote: sungam wrote: Lazlo wrote: andrewG wrote: sungam wrote: Hexes aren't always passive. What about tricams and big bros? What about sliding nuts? I consider anything that relies on twisting, camming, or other movements to stay in positions. To me this includes cammed hexes, ball nutz, cammed tricams, cam hooks (leepers), copperheads and big bros. Passive includes threads, nuts, wedged hexes, pins, hooks, wedged tricams, wedged knots, chockstones, and cams with stops that are placed fully open (when you already used the right sized nut or whatever). But of course that's just me. Fuckin' kids these days. I tell 'ya. Any gear that is not spring loaded is "passive" even if it relies on camming action. Duh... Curt Are big bros passive then?
aren't they spring loaded? if they are then no.
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