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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 12:41 AM
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tips, tricks, cautions. I've done just enough hooking to be cautious. Any real tricks or tips. I'm planning on doing a route with substantial amounts of hooking.
[ This Message was edited by: cologman on 2002-11-22 16:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: cologman on 2002-11-22 17:43 ]
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curt
Nov 23, 2002, 1:01 AM
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Well,
I don't know where your route is but I understand that hooking is legal in Nevada--as long as you are outside the Vegas city limits. Things are a bit more restrictive in most states.
Curt
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timpanogos
Nov 23, 2002, 1:32 AM
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Hey, I’m also interested in this topic:
The “first big wall” thread had a link to Moonlight Buttress, which I then followed over to the Prodigal Son description (personal goal) which I thought was a C1, but this describes 3 of 9 pitches as C2 with the following comment “and whatever you do DO NOT FORGET A HOOK. There are some moves that can only be done with a hook”
I was kind of surprised that easy aid would require hooking.
[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2002-11-22 17:34 ]
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 1:45 AM
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Well now that I have your attention........
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timpanogos
Nov 23, 2002, 1:50 AM
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Yea, and my local pro-shop where I've been getting some of my gear says = "oh yea - you are going to like that one, it's easy enough, you will find the local LCC granite practice routes harder than that"
P.S. So If anyone has any Granite, Quartize and sandstone hooking advice - give it up.
[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2002-11-22 17:51 ]
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flamer
Nov 23, 2002, 3:51 AM
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Dude seriouly you DO NOT NEED ANY HOOKS FOR PRODIGAL SON! All you have to do is top step on good gear(usually a bolt or drilled angle). I was thinking about changing that on the climbingmoab site, but I haven't gotten around to it. I don't know what those guys were thinking! There are a couple of places where the gear gets a little tricky. You will learn the limits of orange tcu placement and take some HB offsets(brass). But anything tricky is only a few moves long and there is good gear keeping you from falling very far. Learn how to top step- I'm only 5'8" and I needed zero hooks on this route!
Josh
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pbjosh
Nov 23, 2002, 4:02 AM
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Although I'm no master, not by a long shot, hooking is relatively straightforward most of the time. You find an edge and put a hook on it. Look at a few different hooks (talon, cliffhanger, fish hook, etc) and it's clear what kind of features you can drape them on. Sometimes a filed down hook that's super pointy is good for hooking little divots (usually on an edge but the point keeps it in place / more secure). A BAT Hook (or the smallest of the 3 prongs of the talon) is for bathooking (love the logical progression?) Bathooks are placed in 1/4" holes drilled about 1/4-3/8" deep, just for the bat hook.
Cam hooks are the bomb - they are fast, bomber and did I mention they are SO FAST. Once you learn to trust them you can book up thin seems and stuff w/ em.
In general, just be gentle when hooking and try not to hook anything that'll blow out / peel off (probably not a danger on a well established route). Hooks generally don't get too much bounce testing, for obvious reasons.
If you are trying to bounce funky gear off a hook and you're run out and don't want to blow it, either funk the gear (2' cable or sling and some devoted biners connected to your hammer to your gear then swing your hammer down to shock load the gear simulating a bounce), or very carefully hold your hand over the hook, lower yourself way down so you're below both pieces and kinda stay on the hook kinda bounce the other piece - kinda sketchy but I did it once for lack of a hammer.
josh
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 5:04 AM
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Hey Josh,
Thanks for the info. Do you generally move on successive hook moves with the hooks clipped or girth hitched perhaps to your aiders or daisy maybe?
Jeff
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pbjosh
Nov 23, 2002, 5:12 AM
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Generally hooks don't stay in place unless they're weighted. Hooks are threaded with lightweight webbing in various ways depending on the hooks (historical posts cover this, look in the aid forum).
Place 'em and then clip an aider and daisy to 'em and stand on 'em. Then place the next one. As soon as you move to the next one you generally can just pick up the previous one to back clean it.
In some situations you might duck take a hook in place if you actually think (yikes) that it might catch a fall (unlikely) and then clip it with a runner/draw ...
josh
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 5:19 AM
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I was just thinking that if you had a Talon for instance attached to an aider/s you could select the right fit and step right onto it. Less farting around moving gear, etc.
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poindexter
Nov 23, 2002, 7:53 AM
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Why does everyone flip out over the hook on prodigal, you really really really dont need one - nuf said
[ This Message was edited by: poindexter on 2002-11-22 23:53 ]
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apollodorus
Nov 23, 2002, 10:06 AM
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Wear a helmet, and look at your belayer when you step onto a hook to test it. Keep an open hand on the hook, if you can, to stabilize it. Later, as you move past, duct tape the good ones and leave them for pro.
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 7:55 PM
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Apollodorus,
So I gather you would suggest a rack of hooks
and where possible tape them off. I'm looking at sections of 50'or so of hook moves.
Jeff
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yossarian
Nov 23, 2002, 9:20 PM
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If you were really doing 50' of hooking you wouldn't be asking such questions
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cologman
Nov 23, 2002, 11:26 PM
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Quite the contrary, because I have done a little hooking and am considering a route that has considerable on it I am asking the questions!
[ This Message was edited by: cologman on 2002-11-23 15:30 ]
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timpanogos
Nov 24, 2002, 1:57 AM
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How do you package and carry your duct tape? I have a project route that will require two hook moves and one brassy wire synched to a 1/4 bolt that is about 1/4 inch out from flush. As cloddy as I am at this point, I'm thinking it would help to tape the wire/hooks to the wall - not for fall protection, but just to help me from wobbling them off as I practice.
[ This Message was edited by: timpanogos on 2002-11-23 21:33 ]
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flamer
Nov 24, 2002, 5:39 AM
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Try rapping duct tape around a pencil or pen. Rap a little more than you think you'll need, sling it and there you go!This way you won't be taking the whole roll. Also I wouldn't really suggest tapping hooks on so they won't "wobble" when you use them. You generally want to be able to evaluate them constantly while you are on them. Just move fluidly and avoid thrashing around.
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mr_gondola
Nov 24, 2002, 6:44 AM
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Duct tape can wrapped around itself...so you could start it on cardboard and just wrap it around. Whatever, It'll unwind as long as sticky is laying on back of nonsticky side.
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mshore
Nov 24, 2002, 1:07 PM
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fuck!
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pbjosh
Nov 24, 2002, 3:53 PM
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Put a loop of string/accessory cord/clothesling/whatever you prefer through the role of duct tape and clip it to your rack somewhere. If you don't want it to be too heavy buy the smaller role not the monstrous one.
josh
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coclimber26
Nov 24, 2002, 7:12 PM
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I prefer the eagle talon over the standard sky hook for ledges on verticle rock. With the 3 hooks one is on the ledge and the other two are usually resting on rock just below the ledge..It seems a little less wobbly to me..
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philbox
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Nov 24, 2002, 8:57 PM
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Ok, you`ve got a series of hook moves on your next pitch. Here is what I would do. First anchor a thin static rope to the anchor and ensure it will take an upward pull. At your first hook instead of using duct tape simply attach the hook to the thin static rope. You do this by fitting a long prussik from the hook to the static.
This sets up opposing forces transferred from the anchor at the bottom to the hook at the top which keep the hook in place. For a series of hook moves simple repeat the steps as many times as necessary.
Of course the hook keeper static is an independant rope and you will be clipping in to the hook with your lead rope as well via a quickdraw or biner. Personally I like a quickdraw.
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addiroids
Nov 25, 2002, 6:26 AM
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Philbox,
I like that idea. Kind of like what you do when soloing on hooks, but still with a belay.
And as far as the hook on Prodigal goes... Damn people. If you are aid climbing, you should have a hook or two. The Talon and Skyhook are good first hooks. Sure, people can get by with out them on PS, but they weight nothing, take up no space, and I did use one in a few spots (pitch 4? or 5? before the 5' tension traverse). They cost like 9 bucks prodeal. It's not too hard to justify bringing them. There are some slab routes I would like to have a talon on. But of course I won't use them on a Josh slab route for fear of breaking a crimper off.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag (got the ass handed to my person on a 5.8 hand crack on Trashcan rock this weekend - a 5.8 hand crack!!!)
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copperhead
Nov 26, 2002, 4:58 AM
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Make sure it sticks by hand-testing (fiddle around with it to see how it sticks/grabs, especially on smooth or sloping surfaces).
Give it a super-slight bounce-test (or just 'ease onto it' if it's jingy loose/expando choss).
Commit to it (don't sit there and think about it...).
Be nice to it.
Keep moving.
Get on the next piece quick.
Repeat process.
Don't fall.
Have fun.
[ This Message was edited by: copperhead on 2002-11-28 21:12 ]
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groundfall
Nov 26, 2002, 5:40 AM
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No hooks needed on Prodigal but I agree with Addiroids- you should have a few hooks on your rack if you are on a wall. Routs change and often a hook move can bypass a tricky nut.
Have fun.
CJ
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brutusofwyde
Dec 1, 2002, 1:10 AM
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Ahhh, hooking.
Get beta on the route you're doing. Some routes require the huge hooks (Fish hook and larger) some require specialized hooks (such as the "enchanted" hooks needed for ZM.)
Big hooks are pretty strong. Duct taping these things in bomber placements with screamers attached is WAY better than breezing on through without any pro. Especially when you leak onto that unprotected 5.7 slab after 50 feet of pure hooking.
Talons, grappling hooks and standard Chouinard "sky hooks" are the foundation of the hooking rack, build from there.
Ditto what has been said about Cam Hooks. I wouldn't get on a wall without them.
Brutus
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mrhardgrit
Dec 2, 2002, 11:24 PM
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Definitely file a number of your hooks to make them pointed. These are particularly advantagous when you can't get a visual on the hook placement you're about to make, as often a blind placement (even with feeling around with your fingers) with a normal hook will not make complete contact with the entire hook edge. This can lead to you standing up to the piece and seeing just a mm or 2 on the edge of a crystal... hmmmm!!
Be careful not to use any hooks that don't have enough horizontal clearance from the rock face - leads to too much leverage.
T
Oh one other thing .... if you're doing a any reachy hooking traverses. If I'm making a big sideways reach to the next hook, I set the hook at angle just off vertical (towards me) to that when I have to do the inevitable splits maveouvor to my aiders, the hook doesn't just rock off in the other direction as you have already made some compensation.
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spike
Dec 3, 2002, 3:21 PM
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Hook moves on Prodigal Sun - YES.
I remember 3 hook moves.
Scott did a hook move just after the start of P3. I could have done a hook move on the start of P4, but forgot about it and did a reachy move. I did a hook move on P7 - at the start of P7 are a couple bolts, then 2 blown out piton scars in a row. I remember just after the 2nd blown out piton scars is a small ledge. Great hook placement on the small ledge.
Click on this link to see a BD Sky Hook that I filed down to a Finger Hook. This hook worked great on Lunar Ecstasy in Zion, P7 the "Amoeba Pitch" that called for a bat hook.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/photos/jump.cgi?Detailed=8956 BBCode auto-link end -->
[ This Message was edited by: spike on 2002-12-03 10:36 ]
[ This Message was edited by: spike on 2002-12-03 10:40 ]
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