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Pizzafarno


May 8, 2009, 4:22 PM
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Small Cams necessary?
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Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .


(This post was edited by Pizzafarno on May 8, 2009, 4:23 PM)


Partner angry


May 8, 2009, 4:49 PM
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Micronuts are smaller than the smallest cam that you can fall on. There is a place for both.

I didn't place many small cams as a beginner, now I place them all the time. It all depends on the route. There are many times that a small cam will go where a nut just would not. The inverse is also true.

I think you'll do OK with cams down to .5 while you're getting started. Get smaller ones when you start noticing that you constantly are needing smaller ones.


patto


May 8, 2009, 4:51 PM
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Unless you are particularly cost constrained then I recomend getting down to .3 C4. These are still a long way from really small.


evanwish


May 8, 2009, 5:21 PM
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Re: [angry] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
I didn't place many small cams as a beginner, now I place them all the time.

hmm... i never really thought about it but same here... good point

angry wrote:
Get smaller ones when you start noticing that you constantly are needing smaller ones.

that is of course probably when its too late... Blush


Johnny_Fang


May 8, 2009, 5:38 PM
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i really, really like the metolius tcu's as small units, overthing from 00 up to 4 are beautiful tools that i love placing, and of course everyone creams their pants about aliens though i don't have any because i'm not that cool. camalots for the mid range up to a 4 as you have.


bill413


May 8, 2009, 5:50 PM
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I'm in angry's camp - didn't use much small stuff when starting (well, sometimes used small stoppers/offsets to hold a real nut in place). I got one small cam and it came in useful in a lot of situations...but...it's not nearly as strong as bigger pieces. I think of the small ones as "well, at least I have something." So....if you're just starting out, I think concentrate on bigger pro. Maybe buy one (or two) small cams, and expect to be frustrated that it's just too big or small. But, that will help you decide.

When you have a choice, bigger pro (within reason) is generally more reliable than smaller pro.


salamanizer


May 8, 2009, 6:57 PM
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Just starting out huh...

Well, I'll give you the same advice I give all new comers.

When you really need something, you'll know exactly what it is you need.


That being said, I use small cams all the time. My ass has been saved many times and I have logged some big air time onto black Aliens, 00 Metolius TCU's and purple/grey C3's.

Also, I could not and would not survive without my DMM Peanuts. Best "micro" nuts for free climbing Sierra granite I've ever used.
They routinely take the R right out of a route.


Terry2124


May 8, 2009, 8:58 PM
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Pizzafarno wrote:
Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?


uni_jim


May 8, 2009, 9:56 PM
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Terry2124 wrote:

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

*cough* doesn't know what he's talking about *cough*


salamanizer


May 8, 2009, 11:27 PM
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Terry2124 wrote:
Pizzafarno wrote:
Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?



YES!


cush


May 9, 2009, 7:52 AM
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Re: [uni_jim] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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no, it actually says it on the packaging for them even. right next to the "climbing is a dangerous activity" label it says that they shouldn't be used to protect against a fall.


Factor2


May 9, 2009, 8:08 AM
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Re: [Terry2124] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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Terry2124 wrote:
Pizzafarno wrote:
Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

just can't have a thread with all good information, can we?Smile


uni_jim


May 9, 2009, 8:32 AM
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There are free routes out there whaich are protected by micronuts. They can hold falls.


rocknice2


May 9, 2009, 8:52 AM
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Can micronuts hold falls? Depends on the fall.
I've seen a 00 walnut break under a good bounce.
I've use them as pro when I can get anything else.

To say YES they can hold a fall implies that they are solid pro mean to whip on.
Depending on their size they can take 2-4kn...................not much


uni_jim


May 9, 2009, 9:05 AM
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 (taken from mec.ca)
---------------------------------------
Gear Notes:
Black Diamond Micro Stopper

Size Range Strength Weight
1 3.7-5.1mm 2kN 4g
2 4.6-6.5mm 3kN 7g
3 5.1-7.5mm 5kN 10g
4 5.9-8.4mm 6kN 13g
5 7.4-9.4mm 6kN 15g
6 8.8-10.4mm 8kN 21g
----------------------------------------
Like all protection, the holding power is dependant on the placement, and yes, micro's are not as strong as larger pices. If placed properly, all but the smallest should be able to arrest a fall. I wouldn't want to fall on the #1 or #2, but i would place them if i had them.


cush


May 9, 2009, 9:09 AM
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In reply to:
I wouldn't want to fall on the #1 or #2, but i would place them if i had them.

basically, this.


Lazlo


May 9, 2009, 9:50 AM
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salamanizer wrote:
Also, I could not and would not survive without my DMM Peanuts. Best "micro" nuts for free climbing Sierra granite I've ever used.
They routinely take the R right out of a route.

That is the best endorsement for gear I've ever heard or read. I now want a set. Blush


nnowinowski


May 9, 2009, 10:45 AM
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omg. there is so much crap mixed in the information on this site that it blows my mind. You should not need microcams on sierra granite if you are climbing sierra granite 10a and below and you read the routes so you don't get on thin parallel seams. In my estimation placing good cams is best learned with fingers and up to get a good view of how the lobes are contacting the rock, proper expansion, ect. Hexes and big nuts are for the most part a waste of time (for you and the person cleaning them). Learning to place good passive gear in the micro to fat fingers sizes is absolutely essential. Even if you have small cams if you want to be good and safe invest time learning thin nuts and it will pay off. Also, a majority of the best microcam placements on granite will mimic a passive placement, locking into a slight constriction. Cams are always faster, nuts are always lighter and go smaller and protect shallower placements.


brutusofwyde


May 9, 2009, 11:56 AM
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nnowinowski wrote:
omg. there is so much crap mixed in the information on this site that it blows my mind. You should not need microcams on sierra granite if you are climbing sierra granite 10a and below and you read the routes so you don't get on thin parallel seams. In my estimation placing good cams is best learned with fingers and up to get a good view of how the lobes are contacting the rock, proper expansion, ect. Hexes and big nuts are for the most part a waste of time (for you and the person cleaning them). Learning to place good passive gear in the micro to fat fingers sizes is absolutely essential. Even if you have small cams if you want to be good and safe invest time learning thin nuts and it will pay off. Also, a majority of the best microcam placements on granite will mimic a passive placement, locking into a slight constriction. Cams are always faster, nuts are always lighter and go smaller and protect shallower placements.

Mostly word. Until that SLCD gets over-cammed.

If you're looking at micro cams, or even micro nuts, you have ventured beyond the realm of "just starting out," should take a good long look in the mirror and think about why you are climbing, and if you don't give up climbing then, should inveast in some load limiters like Yates Screamers.


Partner angry


May 9, 2009, 1:38 PM
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brutusofwyde wrote:
Mostly word. Until that SLCD gets over-cammed.

If you're looking at micro cams, or even micro nuts, you have ventured beyond the realm of "just starting out," should take a good long look in the mirror and think about why you are climbing, and if you don't give up climbing then, should inveast in some load limiters like Yates Screamers.

Now I've placed a lot of micro's and small nuts. I've even attached a screamer to one here or there. Funny thing is, especially for someone just starting out, is that screamers probably make your situation more dangerous.

Here's why.

Most of the little gear I place it seems, is to remind me that I've got shitty gear so I can't fall. It keeps my game on and allows me to keep my shit together. That reminder that a lot of my gear sucks keeps me from falling. In fact, I rarely have ever fallen on micro nuts and cams and ballnutz despite doing so many routes that exclusively require them. I'll add rusty 1/4" Leepers to that list too. When I start clipping screamers to those pieces, my mind relaxes, I partially go back into good gear/sport mode and I hang it out further than I ever would if I had shitty gear.

Considering the debate on the efficacy of screamer or any load limiter (ref: rgold), I feel that the screamer is a merely a mental ploy to force me into putting it all out there. On the topic of whether it actually helps though, the answer is pretty much maybe/yeah/dunno/couldn't hurt/what he said/I read online that.../vibrating/how about ice?. In other words, who knows.

I wouldn't suggest a load limiter to beginner because he should either be on routes with solid gear or learning how to climb solid above sketch gear. There's an adolescence we need to pass before we start pretending bad gear is good.


Terry2124


May 9, 2009, 9:30 PM
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uni_jim wrote:
(taken from mec.ca)
---------------------------------------
Gear Notes:
Black Diamond Micro Stopper

Size Range Strength Weight
1 3.7-5.1mm 2kN 4g
2 4.6-6.5mm 3kN 7g
3 5.1-7.5mm 5kN 10g
4 5.9-8.4mm 6kN 13g
5 7.4-9.4mm 6kN 15g
6 8.8-10.4mm 8kN 21g
----------------------------------------
Like all protection, the holding power is dependant on the placement, and yes, micro's are not as strong as larger pices. If placed properly, all but the smallest should be able to arrest a fall. I wouldn't want to fall on the #1 or #2, but i would place them if i had them.

I have all these 1 - 6. The manufacturer does state its not meant to take a fall. There are just so small that a big fall would most likely rip them out of place. Yes they can hold but not recommended for noobs, you would have to have experience placing protection.


patto


May 10, 2009, 6:19 AM
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My hardest trad lead is Lazy Bum at Sunnyside Bench, Yosemite, 5.10d. This climb would be much scarier if I wasn't carrying peenuts and small RPs. I stitched up the crux and found it much easier than 5.10d.

There are plenty of climbs in my local crag that require RPs. I guess that is why it is them home of RPs. Wink


Pizzafarno


May 11, 2009, 6:43 PM
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thanks for the responses guys- so the basic answer is yes!


clintcummins


May 12, 2009, 3:20 PM
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Below the #.5 C4, there are still finger sized cracks where small cams are quite helpful. Most people will have these 2 sizes:
- "regular fingers" - #2/yellow Metolius TCU or 4CU, or yellow Alien (or equivalent C3 in this size)
- "thin fingers" - #1/blue Metolius TCU or 4CU, or green Alien (or equivalent C3)

You can also go to smaller sizes like #0 and #00 TCUs or blue and black Aliens, but the range of these cams and their surface area contact is quite small. So they are less frequently used in my experience. If you are going to climb El Cap, or do a route with runouts and small cracks, they might be essential. But if you are leading 5.8/5.9 you probably don't need to get cams that small.


petsfed


May 12, 2009, 4:26 PM
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I placed a yellow alien today in such a perfect placement that I mentally patted myself on the back. But the only reason I used the alien and not the nut I usually place there was because I happen to have a small cam today. For the sub 5.10 leader, nuts are generally more useful, and until you get down to the truly micro stuff (micro nuts are less than a quarter inch, not just smaller than a .5 C4), you don't really need to worry about it that much. That said, I'd pick up a .4 C4 or a yellow alien or equivalent when you've got the money and the presence of mind to do so. Its a handy piece and you'll use it a ton more than you might think. Its the first fingers size I doubled up on.


Partner angry


May 12, 2009, 4:29 PM
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I think .4 (yellow alien) is the first cam I doubled up on. To be fair though, I also doubled up on 2.5 friend the same day.


Pizzafarno


May 13, 2009, 9:36 AM
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i went ahead and bought 4 small TCU's and another #1 metolius, used, for a good deal. That should cover everything, correct?


(This post was edited by Pizzafarno on May 13, 2009, 9:37 AM)


the_climber


May 13, 2009, 10:40 AM
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Sounds about right.


rtwilli4


May 15, 2009, 9:16 PM
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I'm just starting to climb more trad, and building a rack. I placed a purple TCU once the other day and a .3 C4 a few times. Not sure if the TCU would have held a fall but it was placed well, and the only option I had to protect a small roof. I've also placed a few small aliens.


rtwilli4


May 15, 2009, 9:24 PM
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Terry2124 wrote:
Pizzafarno wrote:
Hey all-
Im new to climbing and have just started to buy gear. Im focusing on cams right now. Right now i have BD camalot c4 - #.5-#4. Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary? Or micronuts to make up for it?
Thanks!

background- i climb in Tahoe and Yosemite, CA-all granite .

Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?

I've seen a 200# guy take a 20 footer on a #2 stopper.


Jnclk


May 18, 2009, 5:18 AM
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"Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?"
That is not true. Only the smallest sizes of micros are intended for aid only.


(This post was edited by Jnclk on May 18, 2009, 5:19 AM)


the_climber


May 18, 2009, 9:29 AM
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Micro anything can be used to protect free climbing. As with all gear you must know the limitations of the gear, and the placement. Micro nuts/cam/pitons are used to protect short sections, and when nested together sometimes long sections of trad routes. If it is something that can check a slip, and gives one the confidence to move through a section then it was worth hauling them up there wasn't it. Micros are also quite usefull for providing opposition to keep another nut inplace. They can sometimes hold big falls, that said anytime you expect heroics from your gear... you're likely hanging it out there more than you intended.


As for micros holding... I'd trust a micro nut in a marginal placement more than a micro cam.


chrisJoosse


Jun 18, 2009, 6:34 PM
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Pizzafarno wrote:
Do i need the smaller ones, for example, the BD camalot c3's? Or maybe just smaller c4's? Are they truly necessary?

No, but they can be very convenient when there's a thin placement right next to your splitter-crack and you want to save your C4 [5|.75|1|2]s for later.

I use my C3 1 and 2 pretty regularly- I find them to be very convenient when building an anchor and I want a backing piece in a separate crack from my main (bigger) pieces- often there's a nearby smaller crack I can plug one of these into. (background- I climb a bunch on granite- mine's in Index).

Nuts are definitely cheaper and in many cases are just as good or better, but man, cams are nice.


billcoe_


Jun 18, 2009, 9:11 PM
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Just reread the Angry, Brutus and Clint Cummins posts and you'll do fine if you follow there advice. If you have a lot of money of course, then go for it anyway.


rtwilli4


Jun 18, 2009, 9:42 PM
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I'm not sure what everyone else said but I still consider myself a beginner on gear (probably only lead 30 or 40 pitches) and I have only placed a cam smaller than a .3 C4 a few times. I have placed EXACTLY ONE purple TCU and probably two blue TCU's (just a tad bit smaller that a .3). I place the Yellow and Orange ones (equivalent to a .4 C4) a whole lot though, and like having C4's down to .3 and TCU's down to blue. That gives you "doubles" without actually having two of each cam.

I am still building my rack and with all the bullshit going on w/ CCH I will probably end up doubling up on bigger stuff before I buy anything smaller than a .3 C4 or a Blue TCU.

I think you should have at least a .3 to start, but below that you are looking at cams that have to be placed very well to actually hold a leader fall, and they all get pretty expensive. Not to mention the current shake up in the small cam market, with Mastercams recently coming out and CCH up in the air.

Nuts are not ever really replacements for cams. You should be placing nuts whenever you can and use cams when nothing else will work. A lot of people actually use cams as a replacement for passive gear but if you ask me that's not really the way it should work.

The smaller micronuts probably aren't going to do much for your leader falls either. Some people might argue with me here, but I hope to never be in the habit of trusting my life to a nut that is rated to 2 or 3 kN or even 5 for that matter.


petsfed


Jun 18, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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rtwilli4 wrote:
I'm not sure what everyone else said but I still consider myself a beginner on gear (probably only lead 30 or 40 pitches) and I have only placed a cam smaller than a .3 C4 a few times. I have placed EXACTLY ONE purple TCU and probably two blue TCU's (just a tad bit smaller that a .3). I place the Yellow and Orange ones (equivalent to a .4 C4) a whole lot though, and like having C4's down to .3 and TCU's down to blue. That gives you "doubles" without actually having two of each cam.

I am still building my rack and with all the bullshit going on w/ CCH I will probably end up doubling up on bigger stuff before I buy anything smaller than a .3 C4 or a Blue TCU.

I think you should have at least a .3 to start, but below that you are looking at cams that have to be placed very well to actually hold a leader fall, and they all get pretty expensive. Not to mention the current shake up in the small cam market, with Mastercams recently coming out and CCH up in the air.

Nuts are not ever really replacements for cams. You should be placing nuts whenever you can and use cams when nothing else will work. A lot of people actually use cams as a replacement for passive gear but if you ask me that's not really the way it should work.

The smaller micronuts probably aren't going to do much for your leader falls either. Some people might argue with me here, but I hope to never be in the habit of trusting my life to a nut that is rated to 2 or 3 kN or even 5 for that matter.

First, anything south of a .5 C4 is really too wide to be useful in many situations. Some would say anything smaller than a 1 C4 is too wide, but this isn't the place for splitting hairs like that. I encounter the need for small cams every time I go climbing. But then, I climb in an area that's predominantly cracks. If its traditionally protected face climbing, you might be able to get away without small cams. If its all crack climbing, no such luck.

Second, I don't think there's been much of a shakeup in the small cam market, at least not so recent that you should be in wait-and-see mode. C3s and Mastercams came out about the same time, about 2 years after the Zeroes. Reviews have come in on all three, and it really comes down to preference between Mastercams and Zeroes for the most part, with C3s being something of a specialty piece for most. Its unfortunate that CCH is so unreliable, because there really isn't much comparison between them and any other small cam, but that's also a discussion for another time.

The reason you want small cams specifically is because they universally have a narrow headwidth. You might've noticed, but a #2 camalot width crack is rarely so shallow that it won't take the came. When you're tossing cams into pin scars though, it becomes an issue. That's also why, unless I know I'll need a 4th piece in that size, my C4s smaller than .5 stay in the pack. I have better cams for those sizes.


rtwilli4


Jun 19, 2009, 4:01 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
I'm not sure what everyone else said but I still consider myself a beginner on gear (probably only lead 30 or 40 pitches) and I have only placed a cam smaller than a .3 C4 a few times. I have placed EXACTLY ONE purple TCU and probably two blue TCU's (just a tad bit smaller that a .3). I place the Yellow and Orange ones (equivalent to a .4 C4) a whole lot though, and like having C4's down to .3 and TCU's down to blue. That gives you "doubles" without actually having two of each cam.

I am still building my rack and with all the bullshit going on w/ CCH I will probably end up doubling up on bigger stuff before I buy anything smaller than a .3 C4 or a Blue TCU.

I think you should have at least a .3 to start, but below that you are looking at cams that have to be placed very well to actually hold a leader fall, and they all get pretty expensive. Not to mention the current shake up in the small cam market, with Mastercams recently coming out and CCH up in the air.

Nuts are not ever really replacements for cams. You should be placing nuts whenever you can and use cams when nothing else will work. A lot of people actually use cams as a replacement for passive gear but if you ask me that's not really the way it should work.

The smaller micronuts probably aren't going to do much for your leader falls either. Some people might argue with me here, but I hope to never be in the habit of trusting my life to a nut that is rated to 2 or 3 kN or even 5 for that matter.


Second, I don't think there's been much of a shakeup in the small cam market, at least not so recent that you should be in wait-and-see mode. C3s and Mastercams came out about the same time, about 2 years after the Zeroes. Reviews have come in on all three, and it really comes down to preference between Mastercams and Zeroes for the most part, with C3s being something of a specialty piece for most. Its unfortunate that CCH is so unreliable, because there really isn't much comparison between them and any other small cam, but that's also a discussion for another time.

yea, AS I was typing that I knew that I wasn't really correct. I'm just kind of bummed about CCH.


wallwombat


Aug 5, 2009, 2:14 AM
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Re: [Jnclk] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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"Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?"

Well, if anyone is interested in visiting Arapiles they should get there head around using micro nuts. You will feel pretty strung out there, without your RPs.


dhorgan


Aug 5, 2009, 1:35 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
That said, I'd pick up a .4 C4 or a yellow alien or equivalent when you've got the money and the presence of mind to do so. Its a handy piece and you'll use it a ton more than you might think. Its the first fingers size I doubled up on.

I'd second that: I bought a .4 C4 about a year ago and like it more and more every time I go out. To me, it has nicer action than the C3's (I think the biggest C3 is similar in size to a .4 C4). But I'm in the Gunks, and there's a ton of placements in the Gunks wide enough to accept a .4 C4. This might not be true in the OP's area where come kind of 3-cam unit might work better. Regional differences are key for all gear, but maybe especially so for small gear.

One poster above was talking about the Peanuts working well in California, but I haven't had much luck with 'em in New Paltz (although I've had incredible luck with larger offset nuts, namely HB Offsets). The Gunks seem to like straight-sided micros better, but I'm still a relative newcomer to the black art of micro nuts, generally favoring the "I think I'll just run it out to that Green Cam placement up there and not dick around with these metal shavings down here" approach up to now. Sometimes metal shavings are all you're going to get, though.


bennydh


Aug 5, 2009, 1:50 PM
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Re: [dhorgan] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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Wild Country Zeros, Black Diamond Micro Nuts, and small Metolius tcus. All of them have served me well on california granite. I've taken whips on all of them. Caught a partners 30 footer on a Wild Country Zero 3, and taken a couple good falls on my micro nuts cringing as I wondered if the piece would hold. They are bomber.

I've never climbed on aliens, and I don't like the small BD sizes. That is strictly preference on the BDs and fear of reputation on the aliens.


chrisJoosse


Aug 6, 2009, 3:07 PM
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Re: [dhorgan] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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dhorgan wrote:
petsfed wrote:
That said, I'd pick up a .4 C4 or a yellow alien or equivalent when you've got the money and the presence of mind to do so. Its a handy piece and you'll use it a ton more than you might think. Its the first fingers size I doubled up on.

I'd second that: I bought a .4 C4 about a year ago and like it more and more every time I go out. To me, it has nicer action than the C3's (I think the biggest C3 is similar in size to a .4 C4).

Actually, the biggest C3 (yellow #2) only overlaps the low end of the .4 C4 range- the two are complementary, but not equivalent. The .4 bridges the range gap between the yellow C3 and the .5 (purple) C4. (the yellow C3 starts to tip out right where the purple (.5) C4 is too big to place). I had figured that the difference between the .4 and .5 would be insignificant, but that .4 is perfect finger-width, and is probably one of the most-used pieces on my rack now.


seatbeltpants


Aug 6, 2009, 7:37 PM
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Re: [wallwombat] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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wallwombat wrote:
"Micro nuts are for aid climbing, would you really trust a fall using one?"

Well, if anyone is interested in visiting Arapiles they should get there head around using micro nuts. You will feel pretty strung out there, without your RPs.

thanks for that heads-up - i'm looking at joining a group of guys who are heading across the ditch in a few months and i'll make sure everyone bears this in mind.

steve


takanhase


Aug 6, 2009, 7:47 PM
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Re: [seatbeltpants] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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I feel there is a time and a place for small cams and other times where I can fit in a nut and feel much better about my situation. I do use both but also have never purchased micro nuts as some of the ones I have purchased are are already as thin as a quarter and have not found a use for anything smaller.


coolcat83


Aug 6, 2009, 8:19 PM
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Re: [dhorgan] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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dhorgan wrote:
petsfed wrote:
That said, I'd pick up a .4 C4 or a yellow alien or equivalent when you've got the money and the presence of mind to do so. Its a handy piece and you'll use it a ton more than you might think. Its the first fingers size I doubled up on.

I'd second that: I bought a .4 C4 about a year ago and like it more and more every time I go out. To me, it has nicer action than the C3's (I think the biggest C3 is similar in size to a .4 C4). But I'm in the Gunks, and there's a ton of placements in the Gunks wide enough to accept a .4 C4. This might not be true in the OP's area where come kind of 3-cam unit might work better. Regional differences are key for all gear, but maybe especially so for small gear.

One poster above was talking about the Peanuts working well in California, but I haven't had much luck with 'em in New Paltz (although I've had incredible luck with larger offset nuts, namely HB Offsets). The Gunks seem to like straight-sided micros better, but I'm still a relative newcomer to the black art of micro nuts, generally favoring the "I think I'll just run it out to that Green Cam placement up there and not dick around with these metal shavings down here" approach up to now. Sometimes metal shavings are all you're going to get, though.

I have a #5 ballnut i got on sale that get's use almost every time I go up to the gunks, never fallen on it though, my seconds really love having to clean it as isTongue

Like you I also find that most of the time I can fit a wider cam in, for example a yellow metolius fcu and a #2 c3 are about the same size, most of the time it's just what my hand finds first as to what I'll place unless there's a stem placement issue.


msweet1985


Aug 7, 2009, 9:57 PM
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Re: [Johnny_Fang] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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Johnny_Fang wrote:
i really, really like the metolius tcu's as small units, overthing from 00 up to 4 are beautiful tools that i love placing, and of course everyone creams their pants about aliens though i don't have any because i'm not that cool. camalots for the mid range up to a 4 as you have.

sounds like me. tons of metolius small cams but not coom enough for the CCH hardwear


petsfed


Aug 10, 2009, 10:25 AM
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Re: [chrisJoosse] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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chrisJoosse wrote:
I had figured that the difference between the .4 and .5 would be insignificant, but that .4 is perfect finger-width, and is probably one of the most-used pieces on my rack now.

So long as I have the red zero and the yellow Alien, I don't use the .4 that much. Still, it is a very useful size. I just have better units in the same size.


phillygoat


Aug 10, 2009, 10:42 AM
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Re: [coolcat83] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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coolcat83 wrote:
I have a #5 ballnut i got on sale that get's use almost every time I go up to the gunks, never fallen on it though, my seconds really love having to clean it as isTongue

I'd rather fall on a #4/#5 BallNut than the respective black/blue Alien or grey/purple Metolius (most of the time).


coolcat83


Aug 10, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Re: [phillygoat] Small Cams necessary? [In reply to]
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phillygoat wrote:
coolcat83 wrote:
I have a #5 ballnut i got on sale that get's use almost every time I go up to the gunks, never fallen on it though, my seconds really love having to clean it as isTongue

I'd rather fall on a #4/#5 BallNut than the respective black/blue Alien or grey/purple Metolius (most of the time).

I'd agree most of the time, I've placed my share of "psychological pro" purple tcu's in pebbly gunks horizontals, where shifting those lobes a bit makes the cam useless but a ballnut has a little play.


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