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rtwilli4
May 11, 2009, 2:25 PM
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I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are.
I climb a bit of trad and am trying to get more into it now that I'm back in the states for the summer. I have put up new routes and climb a lot of adventure multi-pitch but most of you would still consider me a "sport climber." It doesn't matter really what you call me, I just like to climb.
Redpointing a .12 has never been something that I set my sights on too heavily, and I have never actually sent a .12 at a high profile place in the states. Now, I have sent 7a+ and tried a few 7b's and 7b+'s that I know I will get when I get back to Asia in the fall. There is a .12a at the Red that I'll send in the fall as well. But the grades are all over the place now a days, and the one at the red is admittedly soft but its fun. Sometimes it's hard to find a .12a that really feels like a 5.12, which may be why I get on more .12b's and .12c's. Of course I'll be in Rifle soon and that will all change.
My point is, I have never actually worked a .12a. I have worked .12b's (7b) and 12c's because the line was so amazing, but it was not for the grade. I'll send them eventually, and I'll send a real .12a eventually, but I have much more important goals like putting up more new routes next year in Asia, climbing more trad this summer, and climbing at as many places as I can over the next few years. My home state of NC, Utah, The Valley, El Potrero, and everywhere inbetween. I also want to boulder more, spend time with friends at the Red and the New, and work as little as possible.
How does this compare to all you normal climbers out there... sport or not... who don't climb 5.12. Maybe you are really close, maybe you are not. Either way, how important is it?
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on May 11, 2009, 2:26 PM)
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rock_fencer
May 11, 2009, 2:33 PM
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ive climbed mostly in the northeast and then So. ILL. basically im a gear guy, ive onsighted harder on trad than sport and climb mid 11 to hard 11's on both. Ive always had the desire to climb 12s but i despise training and im currently content with being able to climb 5.10 gear routes everywhere i have been.
maybe one day i'll care enough to get into shape enough to climb 12s but i enjoy climbing at the level i do. I just want to get to more places
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guangzhou
May 11, 2009, 2:36 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are. I climb a bit of trad and am trying to get more into it now that I'm back in the states for the summer. I have put up new routes and climb a lot of adventure multi-pitch but most of you would still consider me a "sport climber." It doesn't matter really what you call me, I just like to climb. Redpointing a .12 has never been something that I set my sights on too heavily, and I have never actually sent a .12 at a high profile place in the states. Now, I have sent 7a+ and tried a few 7b's and 7b+'s that I know I will get when I get back to Asia in the fall. There is a .12a at the Red that I'll send in the fall as well. But the grades are all over the place now a days, and the one at the red is admittedly soft but its fun. Sometimes it's hard to find a .12a that really feels like a 5.12, which may be why I get on more .12b's and .12c's. Of course I'll be in Rifle soon and that will all change. My point is, I have never actually worked a .12a. I have worked .12b's (7b) and 12c's because the line was so amazing, but it was not for the grade. I'll send them eventually, and I'll send a real .12a eventually, but I have much more important goals like putting up more new routes next year in Asia, climbing more trad this summer, and climbing at as many places as I can over the next few years. My home state of NC, Utah, The Valley, El Potrero, and everywhere inbetween. I also want to boulder more, spend time with friends at the Red and the New, and work as little as possible. How does this compare to all you normal climbers out there... sport or not... who don't climb 5.12. Maybe you are really close, maybe you are not. Either way, how important is it?
I live and Asia and I put up a lot of routes in the region. Currently I am in INdonesia. When you're back this way, let me know, maybe we can hook up. As you know, Asia isn't that big.
Where have you been developing routes?
As for climbing a certain grade, who cares. Are you having fun? That's what matters.
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USnavy
May 11, 2009, 2:50 PM
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I believe 5.12 is a big deal to some intermediate sport climbers because it seems 5.12 is the limit the average regular climber can reach. It seems that breaking into 5.12+ and beyond requires heavy dedication to the point where it may be considered an obsession. A simple one evening a week approach will not cut it for most to make it into 12+ and beyond.
At the moment my long-term (nine months) goal is to RP a 5.13-. At the moment I am still working on 5.12. In a few weeks I will be starting my first 5.12c project. The more I push into harder 5.12's the more I am finding that it requires a higher level of dedication well beyond what the average climber is willing to put fourth. I would feel comfortable saying the increase in dedication for me to go from 5.12b to 12c is about what was required for me to go from 11a to c/d. I am finding that I have to push myself to the absolute max to make it to the next 5.12 grade.
So like I said, I think some view it as a big deal because it seems that in order to pass the 5.12 benchmark the climber needs to bump up their dedication to the sport well beyond what would be considered normal by some. But then again it’s all relative. There are some that can climb 5.12 without breaking a sweat and there are some that will never climb 5.12.
(This post was edited by USnavy on May 11, 2009, 2:59 PM)
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kennoyce
May 11, 2009, 2:52 PM
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I generally consider myself a trad climber. In reality, I probably climb about half sport, half trad, but I enjoy trad more than sport. As someone who enjoys trad more than sport, I have never redpointed a .12 trad line, I think my hardest trad redpoint is like .11c.
Sport climbing I have redpointed several 5.12's but my problem is that I don't project very many routes. I personally enjoy climbing in many different places, and I will usually always try and go to a new area, or just climb a route that I have never climbed before. Because of this all of my hard redpoints have been on second or third try, and I have never projected a route more than that. I'm sure that I could redpoint a 5.13 with a month of work, but that's just not the way I do it.
Basically what I am trying to say is that I go for more mileage when climbing than for the hard redpoints. I do enjoy the feeling of accomplishment when I do redpoint something hard, but more than that I just enjoy a variety of climbing experiences.
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coolcat83
May 11, 2009, 3:01 PM
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It will always evolve, 5.10 was/is hard, then the grades went up as training, technique and technology went up. 5.12 is the new everyman hard, in a few years maybe 5.12 will be the new 5.10, and 5.13/14/15 will be the new everyman hard. to me climbing hard is not as important as enjoying the experience, sometimes pushing the level is the fun in it, overcoming that hardship, tagging a goal. sometimes it's the rest of the experience, some of my most fun days have been on 5.5, just relaxing and getting lost in the rock and placements. I don't think I'll ever climb 5.12, and it doesn't bother me.
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lena_chita
Moderator
May 11, 2009, 3:22 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are. ?
It's as big, or as small a deal as you make it for yourself.
IMO 5.12 is when a lot of areas get opened up for you.
When you get comfortable on 5.12 -- and I am not talking redpointing your first one, I am talking about willing to get on a climb that is rated 5.12 in a guidebook in a new area, with no beta, and be confident that you would get to the top, even if you don't do it clean on the first go, you would get to the top without a major epic -- then you can climb a lot of lines in almost any area.
Back when I was just starting to climb, I had to comb the guidebook for an area that would have enough climbs in the easy-5.10-and-below range to warrant going there for a day. And then get there and wait in line with all the other climbers like me, climbing those few lines. At the New, there were only couple areas like that-- and we ended up going to the same place every freaking time we went climbing... Here was this whole guidebook full of awesome-looking climbs, and here I was, going to these 3 areas over and over, walking past some amazing-looking rock to climb the less-amazing-looking rock... "I want to climb THAT one"-- that was my motivation.
This is why 5.12 is a big deal for me, even though I am not yet 'comfortable on 5.12' by my own definition.
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rock_fencer
May 11, 2009, 3:32 PM
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i wonder if youare refering to 5.12 trad or sport because in my experience once you can crank 10's on gear you are not waiting in line whether its at the gunks, on the granite of NH or NC, and definately not at the RRG.
On the other hand at places like rumney 12's are regularly occupied and a line is often had for top climbs at Waimea wall.
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granite_grrl
May 11, 2009, 4:13 PM
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I just want to climb harder and harder. The grades are just a way to generally guage your process, but aren't the ultimate goal. The goal is to have more areas open to you and more cool lines that you can climb.
As I get better at climbing I keep raising my goals. 5.12 isn't really that big a deal. Right now I'd like to get to that grade because I'm getting closer and closer to climbing it, but it's not the end all be all.
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pfwein
May 11, 2009, 4:15 PM
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In my 15 years of pretty active climbing, I haven't really seen the average climber get any better. The best of the best obviously are, but I think that's mostly a "bell curve" thing (and probably starting younger and gyms play a role also).
Average climber ain't very good and probably never will be. In a way, he/she seems worse now b/c he's further away from the top.
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camhead
May 11, 2009, 4:31 PM
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the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything. I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that. The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade.
That's all I'm going to say.
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apeman_e
May 11, 2009, 4:42 PM
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5.12 isn't a goal of mine, because I'm not really a project person. My favorite part of climbing is the adventure and the sense of heading into the unknown. I've seconded bolted 12's where I realized I could train and increase my endurance and learn all the little "tricks" on the climb if I wanted to project the line. Instead, I am content to have to rest on top rope several times to struggle up the climb, and then leave it be.
I really enjoy onsighting. It's the same reason why I don't boulder harder, because I don't work the same shit over and over. I much prefer to search out a boulder I haven't climbed before and spend a day on it, and move on. As a result, I'll probably never send 5.12. I will always SUCK, but I really LOVE climbing the way I do.
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rtwilli4
May 11, 2009, 5:27 PM
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guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are. I climb a bit of trad and am trying to get more into it now that I'm back in the states for the summer. I have put up new routes and climb a lot of adventure multi-pitch but most of you would still consider me a "sport climber." It doesn't matter really what you call me, I just like to climb. Redpointing a .12 has never been something that I set my sights on too heavily, and I have never actually sent a .12 at a high profile place in the states. Now, I have sent 7a+ and tried a few 7b's and 7b+'s that I know I will get when I get back to Asia in the fall. There is a .12a at the Red that I'll send in the fall as well. But the grades are all over the place now a days, and the one at the red is admittedly soft but its fun. Sometimes it's hard to find a .12a that really feels like a 5.12, which may be why I get on more .12b's and .12c's. Of course I'll be in Rifle soon and that will all change. My point is, I have never actually worked a .12a. I have worked .12b's (7b) and 12c's because the line was so amazing, but it was not for the grade. I'll send them eventually, and I'll send a real .12a eventually, but I have much more important goals like putting up more new routes next year in Asia, climbing more trad this summer, and climbing at as many places as I can over the next few years. My home state of NC, Utah, The Valley, El Potrero, and everywhere inbetween. I also want to boulder more, spend time with friends at the Red and the New, and work as little as possible. How does this compare to all you normal climbers out there... sport or not... who don't climb 5.12. Maybe you are really close, maybe you are not. Either way, how important is it? I live and Asia and I put up a lot of routes in the region. Currently I am in INdonesia. When you're back this way, let me know, maybe we can hook up. As you know, Asia isn't that big. Where have you been developing routes? As for climbing a certain grade, who cares. Are you having fun? That's what matters.
I have mostly been putting up stuff on Koh Phi Phi in Thailand... not because it's the best climbing in the world but because I have a lot of good friends there and me and my girlfriend can live and work there. Some of the best moderate multi-pitch climbing in Thailand has rusted away on PP, so I plan to spend a lot of time next year rebolting. I also have plans for a few brand new areas there, as well as rebolting what will again be the tallest climb in Thailand and maybe all of SE Asia. I would also love to do some development down in Malaysia... loads of potential there and amazing people.
It will all depend on how many bolts we can get next year. We have decided to stop using stainless bolts and only use titanium from now on, because stainless in southern Thailand lasts less than 10 years, with some bolts lasting less than two. Malaysia is more dependent on time and partners than bolts, because expansion bolts seem to work there.
Shoot me an email... ryan.tyler.williams@gmail.com.
I am still learning when it comes to development, and am always looking for experienced partners.
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rtwilli4
May 11, 2009, 5:29 PM
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camhead wrote: the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything. I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that. The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade. That's all I'm going to say.
This is probably the main reason I care to climb harder than I do now. Currently I need a pitch of easy .11 as a warm up... I would like to get out of that crowd. Nowadays if you are at a popular place, climbing .10s just means you're surrounded by gym rat morons.
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boadman
May 11, 2009, 7:44 PM
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For me, it's always been about the line. When I started climbing I lived near Rumney. There are a lot of pretty aesthetic lines there, and it was pretty natural to progress through the grades in search of the next cool move. I started on Yoda, which is a beautiful 5.9. The next route I thought looked really cool was lonesome dove, a 10a. A couple of years later, Social Outcast caught my eye, and suddenly I was on 12s. It's always been the same, whether it's a trad line, a boulder problem, or a sport route. Aesthetic moves, or a feature will intrigue me, and I'll get on the route. Numbers are just a convenient way to decide how long it will take me to get to the top.
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mar_leclerc
May 11, 2009, 9:38 PM
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I climb all over the place, in grades, not location. I can flash V5s and climb V8 boulders after a day of roped climbing. I have nearly 'soloed' 5.13a above a trapeze net (young blood in Squamish) and yet fell leading 'Apron Strings' a 10b the same day on my OS attempt. If I am climbing a 5.12 trad route and I am falling a lot I usually just pull on a peice of gear to get to the top.. unless its single pitch. Whatever, I dont care. I just enjoy myself...
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guangzhou
May 12, 2009, 12:22 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are. I climb a bit of trad and am trying to get more into it now that I'm back in the states for the summer. I have put up new routes and climb a lot of adventure multi-pitch but most of you would still consider me a "sport climber." It doesn't matter really what you call me, I just like to climb. Redpointing a .12 has never been something that I set my sights on too heavily, and I have never actually sent a .12 at a high profile place in the states. Now, I have sent 7a+ and tried a few 7b's and 7b+'s that I know I will get when I get back to Asia in the fall. There is a .12a at the Red that I'll send in the fall as well. But the grades are all over the place now a days, and the one at the red is admittedly soft but its fun. Sometimes it's hard to find a .12a that really feels like a 5.12, which may be why I get on more .12b's and .12c's. Of course I'll be in Rifle soon and that will all change. My point is, I have never actually worked a .12a. I have worked .12b's (7b) and 12c's because the line was so amazing, but it was not for the grade. I'll send them eventually, and I'll send a real .12a eventually, but I have much more important goals like putting up more new routes next year in Asia, climbing more trad this summer, and climbing at as many places as I can over the next few years. My home state of NC, Utah, The Valley, El Potrero, and everywhere inbetween. I also want to boulder more, spend time with friends at the Red and the New, and work as little as possible. How does this compare to all you normal climbers out there... sport or not... who don't climb 5.12. Maybe you are really close, maybe you are not. Either way, how important is it? I live and Asia and I put up a lot of routes in the region. Currently I am in INdonesia. When you're back this way, let me know, maybe we can hook up. As you know, Asia isn't that big. Where have you been developing routes? As for climbing a certain grade, who cares. Are you having fun? That's what matters. I have mostly been putting up stuff on Koh Phi Phi in Thailand... not because it's the best climbing in the world but because I have a lot of good friends there and me and my girlfriend can live and work there. Some of the best moderate multi-pitch climbing in Thailand has rusted away on PP, so I plan to spend a lot of time next year rebolting. I also have plans for a few brand new areas there, as well as rebolting what will again be the tallest climb in Thailand and maybe all of SE Asia. I would also love to do some development down in Malaysia... loads of potential there and amazing people. It will all depend on how many bolts we can get next year. We have decided to stop using stainless bolts and only use titanium from now on, because stainless in southern Thailand lasts less than 10 years, with some bolts lasting less than two. Malaysia is more dependent on time and partners than bolts, because expansion bolts seem to work there. Shoot me an email... ryan.tyler.williams@gmail.com. I am still learning when it comes to development, and am always looking for experienced partners.
Thanks for the reply. I love climbing in Thailand, but I have not hit Phi phi yet. I will, maybe during Christmas break actually.
As for development in Malaysia, well I have to agree. I am keeping my eyes open when it come to the American International School of Malaysia in KL. Once they have a opening I like, I do everything I can to get the posting.
Bolts in Asia, that is the hard part isn't it. Good call on going with Tatanium, Southern Thailand needs it.
So, how many routes on Phi phi now?
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rtwilli4
May 12, 2009, 1:45 AM
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guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad climbers, whatever you are. I climb a bit of trad and am trying to get more into it now that I'm back in the states for the summer. I have put up new routes and climb a lot of adventure multi-pitch but most of you would still consider me a "sport climber." It doesn't matter really what you call me, I just like to climb. Redpointing a .12 has never been something that I set my sights on too heavily, and I have never actually sent a .12 at a high profile place in the states. Now, I have sent 7a+ and tried a few 7b's and 7b+'s that I know I will get when I get back to Asia in the fall. There is a .12a at the Red that I'll send in the fall as well. But the grades are all over the place now a days, and the one at the red is admittedly soft but its fun. Sometimes it's hard to find a .12a that really feels like a 5.12, which may be why I get on more .12b's and .12c's. Of course I'll be in Rifle soon and that will all change. My point is, I have never actually worked a .12a. I have worked .12b's (7b) and 12c's because the line was so amazing, but it was not for the grade. I'll send them eventually, and I'll send a real .12a eventually, but I have much more important goals like putting up more new routes next year in Asia, climbing more trad this summer, and climbing at as many places as I can over the next few years. My home state of NC, Utah, The Valley, El Potrero, and everywhere inbetween. I also want to boulder more, spend time with friends at the Red and the New, and work as little as possible. How does this compare to all you normal climbers out there... sport or not... who don't climb 5.12. Maybe you are really close, maybe you are not. Either way, how important is it? I live and Asia and I put up a lot of routes in the region. Currently I am in INdonesia. When you're back this way, let me know, maybe we can hook up. As you know, Asia isn't that big. Where have you been developing routes? As for climbing a certain grade, who cares. Are you having fun? That's what matters. I have mostly been putting up stuff on Koh Phi Phi in Thailand... not because it's the best climbing in the world but because I have a lot of good friends there and me and my girlfriend can live and work there. Some of the best moderate multi-pitch climbing in Thailand has rusted away on PP, so I plan to spend a lot of time next year rebolting. I also have plans for a few brand new areas there, as well as rebolting what will again be the tallest climb in Thailand and maybe all of SE Asia. I would also love to do some development down in Malaysia... loads of potential there and amazing people. It will all depend on how many bolts we can get next year. We have decided to stop using stainless bolts and only use titanium from now on, because stainless in southern Thailand lasts less than 10 years, with some bolts lasting less than two. Malaysia is more dependent on time and partners than bolts, because expansion bolts seem to work there. Shoot me an email... ryan.tyler.williams@gmail.com. I am still learning when it comes to development, and am always looking for experienced partners. Thanks for the reply. I love climbing in Thailand, but I have not hit Phi phi yet. I will, maybe during Christmas break actually. As for development in Malaysia, well I have to agree. I am keeping my eyes open when it come to the American International School of Malaysia in KL. Once they have a opening I like, I do everything I can to get the posting. Bolts in Asia, that is the hard part isn't it. Good call on going with Tatanium, Southern Thailand needs it. So, how many routes on Phi phi now?
There is still less than 100 lines on the island. I work there as a guide and that takes up most of my time time. There is a guy named Shamick that has rebolted hundreds of routes in Thailand and he kind of runs the bolting effort since all of the gear is his, along with the donation money for bolts. We haven't been able to get a lot of bolts so last year a few new climbs went up on Tonsai Tower, which is the main area. One of them is 55 meters and one of the best climbs on the island. A guy named Magnus has also put up a few climbs in the past few years that aren't in the books. One being a 7b, the hardest on Tonsai Tower.
Other than that, most of the bolts I've put in are on old climbs that had wasted away, or ones that had only been done on gear and never bolted. A few pitches at HinTak were done on gear for the first time in over 10 years, and then bolted.
Most of the development (and the only hard stuff) that has been going on has been DWS. There is unlimited potential on the island and we have been trying to put in bolts up high to take pictures from.
We are supposed to be getting a lot of titanium bolts this season so hopefully I will be doing a lot of drilling and climbing new lines on gear.
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angry
May 12, 2009, 2:02 AM
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camhead wrote: the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything. I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that. The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade. That's all I'm going to say.
Easy for you to say. You're married.
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guangzhou
May 12, 2009, 2:55 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: guangzhou wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: I think the other thread got personal but it made me think. How big of a deal is 5.12? To sport climbers, trad There is still less than 100 lines on the island. I work there as a guide and that takes up most of my time time. There is a guy named Shamick that has rebolted hundreds of routes in Thailand and he kind of runs the bolting effort since all of the gear is his, along with the donation money for bolts. We haven't been able to get a lot of bolts so last year a few new climbs went up on Tonsai Tower, which is the main area. One of them is 55 meters and one of the best climbs on the island. A guy named Magnus has also put up a few climbs in the past few years that aren't in the books. One being a 7b, the hardest on Tonsai Tower. Other than that, most of the bolts I've put in are on old climbs that had wasted away, or ones that had only been done on gear and never bolted. A few pitches at HinTak were done on gear for the first time in over 10 years, and then bolted. Most of the development (and the only hard stuff) that has been going on has been DWS. There is unlimited potential on the island and we have been trying to put in bolts up high to take pictures from. We are supposed to be getting a lot of titanium bolts this season so hopefully I will be doing a lot of drilling and climbing new lines on gear. Thanks for the heads up. I plan a day or two on the island next Christmas break. Looks like I'll be climbing in CHang Mai in September. Ten day trip and Southern Thailand for three weeks in December/January. I've heard nothing but good things about your little island paradise. Not enough routes yet for me to stay long term, but I can come up a for a few days to escape the crowds and for a change of pace. How is the guiding there? E
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james481
May 12, 2009, 3:04 AM
Post #21 of 100
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angry wrote: camhead wrote: the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything. I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that. The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade. That's all I'm going to say. Easy for you to say. You're married.
Don't worry Angry, I have a wicked man crush on you if it makes you feel any better... 
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rtwilli4
May 12, 2009, 3:14 AM
Post #22 of 100
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Do you mean how do I like guiding there? Or how are the guides? The guides in southern Thailand are hit and miss. The other shop (not mine) will hire anyone! For the most part, there are always two or three guides between the two shops that are competent enough to go and get the latest dumbass who forgot to back clip on the way down the multi-pitch. All of the guides on Phi Phi speak much better English and smoke a lot less weed on the job than the guides in Railey/Tonsai.
I enjoy it. I work a lot, but I can usually wear everyone out as fast as I want so if I'm feeling good, I make sure I get an hour at the end of the day to work on something. I meet people from all over the world and get a lot of invites to come climbing in the wildest places. Hopefully I'll be able to take some of them up soon.
Every once in a while someone really takes to it, and extends their vacation. I've taken a few people from their first time climbing to sending hard 5.10s. It can be rewarding.
I've climbed pretty much everything on the island but there are a few harder .12's that I haven't sent, and a .13b that I hope to rebolt next year. And I never get tired of the multi-pitches where you climb right out of a longtail. For me, living there is about a lot more than just climbing though. It's a very peaceful lifestyle. The beach is my front yard and the crag is my back yard. I can literally throw a rock into the ocean, AND onto the crag, from my front porch.
I go months at a time without watching television, eating processed foods, or even seeing a car or motorbike. I go weeks at a time where the only shoes I wear are my climbing shoes. I couldn't think of a better job :)
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on May 12, 2009, 3:17 AM)
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clausti
May 12, 2009, 3:15 AM
Post #23 of 100
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angry wrote: camhead wrote: the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything. I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that. The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade. That's all I'm going to say. Easy for you to say. You're married.
to someone who gives excellent second, no less.
I don't think camhead has yet clipped the anchors of something i couldn't follow.
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degaine
May 12, 2009, 9:18 AM
Post #24 of 100
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camhead wrote: the harder you climb, the less likely you will have to wait in line for anything.
I would agree with that: anything trad over 5.8/5.9 if it is not a 4 star classic, otherwise over 5.10b or so; for sport (in my experience) over 5.10c should do it.
Instead of "harder" you could insert "bolder" "more run out" "chossy" "less than 2 stars in the guidebook", especially for trad climbs.
camhead wrote: I have moved beyond climbing with and catering to 5.10 climbers, and all the drama, headache, and compromise that accompanies that.
Could you explain? What drama, headache and compromise are you talking about (especially at a sport crag)? I'm not saying you should not climb with who you want to climb with, but I have a good friend / regular crag partner who climbs 5.13/14, and I belay him on what he wants to climb and he on what I'd like to climb at crags where a 5.10 is right next to (or a few yards down from) the harder climbs he likes. Ditto at trad crags like Donner summit where you have a 5.10 chimney next to (you can stand an belay in the same spot for both) a 5.12d thin finger crack.
camhead wrote: The main group I climb with is solid at 5.12, and even when we are fairly large, we are efficient and fairly clusterfuck-free. That's why I like climbing the grade.
What do 5.12 and clusterfuck-free have to do with each other? I have alpine partners who climb no harder than 5.8 trad who are lightyears more experienced with ropecraft and moving over rock than some 5.12 gym / crag climbers I know.
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mikebee
May 12, 2009, 10:55 AM
Post #25 of 100
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Registered: Sep 16, 2006
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My hardest sport redpoint is 5.11a (or 22 Aussie).
My hardest trad grade is 5.9 onsight. I'm happy enough with both grades, and I reckon that there's a good range of climbs to keep me amused around those two levels.
If I could improve one of these two numbers, it'd be my trad grade. I'd like to get it up to .10c or so, but thats really because there a couple of lines that I'd really like to get on that are about this grade.
I'm not built or destined to be a 5.12 or higher climber, and I have no issues with that at all.
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