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dynosore
Jul 10, 2009, 3:34 PM
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knieveltech wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: In reply to: I'm full of opinions but it's good to stick to things you actually know something about. I've climbed in the Rushmore area, it's a beautiful area and the climbing is superb and solid, (and a bit run out!) I'd move to Rapid City before I'd move any where in N. Carolina. Sweltering wasteland. You're exactly right. NC sucks. It's way too hot, even in the mountains, and there is really no climbing either. Unless you are a surfer who likes mediocre waves you should probably just stay out of the whole state. This is correct.
I know NC isn't really that bad, I've been there but it's not my cup of tea. Point is, sounds like you haven't been to Rushmore, so why the strong opinion of it? It's in my top 5 favorite places to climb, and I've been to a lot of the "top" climbing areas.
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happiegrrrl
Jul 10, 2009, 3:37 PM
Post #103 of 271
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and where exactly does that link indicate climbing access affected?
Please note -I need you to excerp that section, or I may damned well not hand out no t-shirt. My discretion! And also know that I will be dreaming up a new design for this.... it will definitely refer to the GP event in a clear way. And recall - I am for the statement.... harharhar
Enjoy the weekend, people,. I am out of here!
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dynosore
Jul 10, 2009, 3:40 PM
Post #104 of 271
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dingus wrote: dynosore wrote: You're blowing smoke. You spewed nonsense and pretended it was science and got called out and they're blowing smoke? Bwahahahahahahaha! DMT
Nonsense? Pointing out the huge potential for error in climate models is nonsense? When the largest tax increase in history is riding on this, I'd say it's worth being darn sure we can trust those models. If people had the same experience as me with these types of models, they would share my skepticism. Give me a temperature increase you'd like to see, dingus, and I'll give you a model I could sell to 99 out of 100 people that will predict that increase.
Whether you believe the GW models or not, tell me again how hobbling our already ailing economy will make any difference when the largest CO2 producers in the world, China and soon India, will never sign on? If you can't see this is a $$ grab by politicians, there's nothing else I can say.
EDIT I see you addressed exactly this. Maybe we agree more than you think.
(This post was edited by dynosore on Jul 10, 2009, 3:44 PM)
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sidepull
Jul 10, 2009, 3:51 PM
Post #105 of 271
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OK happiegrrrl, this is a weak attempt and requires some inference but it's only because I want a t-shirt:
It's an AP story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap_on_re_us/us_rushmore_security_1
"We're going to take this opportunity, as we do with all other opportunities, to do a self-assessment and check our security structure and identify things that are worth strengthening, based on what our investigation reveals," Singh said.
There's also a reference to the anchors used by the climbers (and in an earlier article they were referred to as "climbers" not "activists"). Obviously they're talking about access, right? RIGHT???
Meh, weak.
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rtwilli4
Jul 10, 2009, 3:59 PM
Post #107 of 271
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happiegrrrl wrote: and where exactly does that link indicate climbing access affected? Please note -I need you to excerp that section, or I may damned well not hand out no t-shirt. My discretion! And also know that I will be dreaming up a new design for this.... it will definitely refer to the GP event in a clear way. And recall - I am for the statement.... harharhar Enjoy the weekend, people,. I am out of here!
I must have mis-read the post. I didn't reallize you wanted a climbing access article.
PS - I assume that the text on the t-shirts will also be misspelled?
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on Jul 10, 2009, 6:25 PM)
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 10, 2009, 4:03 PM
Post #108 of 271
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WyoCrackLover wrote: healyje wrote: The 'monument' at Rushmore is, was, and will always be a memorial of desecration. Apparently, the 2.4 Million visitors in 2008 disagree...
Gutzon Borglum, the head of the mountain project was one of the leading assholes of the last century. He was an anti-Semite, Hitler supporter and an all around jerk.
Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap.
That said, the story of the workers who built it is interesting. Was just there. Have a picture of the kids sticking their fingers in GB'S eyes and nose.
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cracklover
Jul 10, 2009, 4:05 PM
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Thanks for outing yourself as being totally ignorant on the subject. It's always tricky to know, at first, who to believe. But you just threw yourself wholeheartedly into the "crackpot" column.
Cheers!
GO
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dingus
Jul 10, 2009, 4:09 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap.
You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands.....
DMT
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 10, 2009, 4:26 PM
Post #111 of 271
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dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap. You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands..... DMT
I didn't include it, but that isn't because I forgot it.
Another tiddbit:
Originally it was to be in the needles with Red Cloud, Buffalo Bill Cody, Lewis and Clark, and Sioux Warriors. Guess who changed it to be presidents? Yup GB
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dingus
Jul 10, 2009, 4:33 PM
Post #112 of 271
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap. You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands..... DMT I didn't include it, but that isn't because I forgot it. Another tiddbit: Originally it was to be in the needles with Red Cloud, Buffalo Bill Cody, Lewis and Clark, and Sioux Warriors. Guess who changed it to be presidents? Yup GB
Ah so you just don't care that it IS a desecration then. Got it.
DMT
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 10, 2009, 4:48 PM
Post #113 of 271
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dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap. You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands..... DMT I didn't include it, but that isn't because I forgot it. Another tiddbit: Originally it was to be in the needles with Red Cloud, Buffalo Bill Cody, Lewis and Clark, and Sioux Warriors. Guess who changed it to be presidents? Yup GB Ah so you just don't care that it IS a desecration then. Got it. DMT
Hey, don't twist my words around, save that for the Soap Box.
The original build was a desecration. But if you spray painted GW's nose red, that isn't. Vandalism, just not over something sacred.
Weren't you the one on about Cave Rock?
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Gmburns2000
Jul 10, 2009, 4:49 PM
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Unbelievable. When you consider the effort that went into it, with the video, the stories on all the major news outlets, and the lurker here on this site, Greenpeace has just proven to be the greatest RC.com troll EVAR!!!
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dingus
Jul 10, 2009, 4:52 PM
Post #115 of 271
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap. You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands..... DMT I didn't include it, but that isn't because I forgot it. Another tiddbit: Originally it was to be in the needles with Red Cloud, Buffalo Bill Cody, Lewis and Clark, and Sioux Warriors. Guess who changed it to be presidents? Yup GB Ah so you just don't care that it IS a desecration then. Got it. DMT Hey, don't twist my words around, save that for the Soap Box. The original build was a desecration. But if you spray painted GW's nose red, that isn't. Vandalism, just not over something sacred. Weren't you the one on about Cave Rock?
No that was YOU going on about Cave Rock. I always agreed it too was desecration.
DMT
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Carnage
Jul 10, 2009, 4:54 PM
Post #116 of 271
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so i dont really wanna get back into the global warming debate and stuff, i just wanna say something about how much rushmore sucks. i went there when i was younger (before i climbed) and all i remember thinking was "ok... this is lame"
all the pics you see make it seem like its a fucking mountain shaped like the heads, when really, its just a part of a cliffline. the pics you always see are like cropped so you cant see the surroundings.
heres a better picture to get the full feel of what it really looks like:
when you see how huge everything else is around it (all the other mountains and shit, which are beautiful if i remember correctly) it just looks tiny.
looking at the rock around it, it looks like they cut into some pristine shit that would be amazing to climb on.
also my favorite part is they way they just chipped everything onto the ground and left it there. there is literally this giant pile of choss leading up to abe's chin.
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asellers98
Jul 10, 2009, 5:10 PM
Post #117 of 271
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Access issues will not be seen directly. My paintball example fits the bill best.
But I reverse that challenge on you, and wanted anyone to present a positive result for this event? What good came of this for correcting Global Warming. And getting the word out is not an acceptable answer since everyone knows about global warming already. They may not understand it, or argue about it, but we all have heard about it.
I didn't hear anything positive coming out of this event, so prove me wrong!
As far as the desecration, I am thinking I used to harsh of a word. Because its existence as you pointed out is definitely a desecration. I didn't think about the land being the indian burial grounds before the construction. What America did to the Indians appauls me. The Indians have a nice healthy view of our planet, and the way they treated it in most cases was an example to be followed.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 10, 2009, 5:13 PM
Post #118 of 271
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dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: dingus wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Mt. Rush was,is, and always will be a tourist trap. That is why it was built, that is what it is. You can't desicrate a tourist trap. You forget that tourist trap was built on sacred Dakota Souix tribal lands..... DMT I didn't include it, but that isn't because I forgot it. Another tiddbit: Originally it was to be in the needles with Red Cloud, Buffalo Bill Cody, Lewis and Clark, and Sioux Warriors. Guess who changed it to be presidents? Yup GB Ah so you just don't care that it IS a desecration then. Got it. DMT Hey, don't twist my words around, save that for the Soap Box. The original build was a desecration. But if you spray painted GW's nose red, that isn't. Vandalism, just not over something sacred. Weren't you the one on about Cave Rock? No that was YOU going on about Cave Rock. I always agreed it too was desecration. DMT
O
M
G
You confused me and [pfwein]. I'm heartbroken. Shattered.
This is a sad day for me. I need a moment.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 10, 2009, 5:14 PM
Post #119 of 271
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I think a good punishment for these guys would be to make them do all the monument’s maintenance for one year. Heck, they proved they can do the climbing. Now let’s see if they can do the repairs?
I would also make them live in a tent at the base of the monument and leave absolutely zero carbon footprint for that year. Practice what you preach! Then I will listen.
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WyoCrackLover
Jul 10, 2009, 5:38 PM
Post #120 of 271
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asellers98 wrote: Access issues will not be seen directly. My paintball example fits the bill best. But I reverse that challenge on you, and wanted anyone to present a positive result for this event? What good came of this for correcting Global Warming. And getting the word out is not an acceptable answer since everyone knows about global warming already. They may not understand it, or argue about it, but we all have heard about it. I didn't hear anything positive coming out of this event, so prove me wrong! As far as the desecration, I am thinking I used to harsh of a word. Because its existence as you pointed out is definitely a desecration. I didn't think about the land being the indian burial grounds before the construction. What America did to the Indians appauls me. The Indians have a nice healthy view of our planet, and the way they treated it in most cases was an example to be followed.
Couldn't agree more... NOTHING positive will result from this event.
However, your opinions on American Indian values and their treatment of the Earth could open up debatable subject matter all on its own...
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acorneau
Jul 10, 2009, 6:04 PM
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Don't forget about the other one...
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Jul 10, 2009, 6:14 PM
Post #122 of 271
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WyoCrackLover wrote: asellers98 wrote: Access issues will not be seen directly. My paintball example fits the bill best. But I reverse that challenge on you, and wanted anyone to present a positive result for this event? What good came of this for correcting Global Warming. And getting the word out is not an acceptable answer since everyone knows about global warming already. They may not understand it, or argue about it, but we all have heard about it. I didn't hear anything positive coming out of this event, so prove me wrong! As far as the desecration, I am thinking I used to harsh of a word. Because its existence as you pointed out is definitely a desecration. I didn't think about the land being the indian burial grounds before the construction. What America did to the Indians appauls me. The Indians have a nice healthy view of our planet, and the way they treated it in most cases was an example to be followed. Couldn't agree more... NOTHING positive will result from this event. However, your opinions on American Indian values and their treatment of the Earth could open up debatable subject matter all on its own...
Positives - more money will be given to Greenpease. Also could be classified as a negative.
Other potential positives, some people here could gain a better understanding of Aboriginal american activities. Or at least better than they got from elementary school books.
Read "1491" to learn.
Interesting tidbit:
Just south of MTR in Nebraska is the Hudson-Meng bone beds where 10,000 year old 8 foot tall prehistoric bison were slaughtered en mass.
This is one of the key sights in the theory that human hunting in NA directly caused the extinction of the megafauna 9,500 years ago.
Humans are humans....
edit:and bad spellers are bad spellers
(This post was edited by Toast_in_the_Machine on Jul 10, 2009, 6:30 PM)
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veganclimber
Jul 10, 2009, 6:15 PM
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dynosore wrote: jmvc wrote: dynosore wrote: But do we really believe that the world warming a couple degrees will doom us all? Humans are great adapters. You may be a wizz at the economy, but that statement shows just how ignorant you are about ecosystems. Sure, it may not "doom us all" but I assure you it will have SEVERE consequences. Edit: To put it in a way you might relate to, consequences that would way exceed 1500$ per family. OK Mr. Ecosystem expert, quantify it for me then, how much per family? The world has already warmed over 1ºF in the last 100 years, and how much has that cost us? Nothing would be my estimate.
Seriously? Read this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/...er-rising-sea-levels
In reply to: Most of the planet's glaciers are melting so fast that many will disappear by the middle of the century, a leading expert has warned. Figures from the World Glacier Monitoring Service show that although melt rates for 2007 fell substantially from record levels the previous year, the loss of ice was still the third worst on record. The total mass left in the glaciers is now thought to be at the lowest level for "thousands of years". Even under moderate predictions of global warming, the small glaciers, which make up the majority by number, will not recover, said Prof Wilfried Haeberli, the organisation's director. The warning will raise concern among those who say that glacier melting is one of the greatest threats of climate change because it raises the risk of sudden avalanches of rocks and soil released from the ice, threatening the livelihoods of more than 2 billion people who depend on melt-water to feed rivers in summer.
In reply to: Two years ago the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change forecast that if current trends continue, 80% of Himalayan glaciers will be gone in 30 years, although more recent estimates have suggested the 2060s or later.
We are talking about disrupting the water supply to billions of people in the next several decades. This is a far greater threat than some new taxes. I'd say this alone is a far more serious problem than the economic disaster we are facing now. Recessions come and go. These water shortages will be effectively permanent.
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bobbj22
Jul 10, 2009, 6:58 PM
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How stupid...even though it made yahoos top stories (as did Numa Numa- which had a monumental impact), the earth's ecosystems are elastic. Humans are but a scratch on the earth. If we can't accurately predict the weather for tomorrow, how the hell do we expect to predict what it will be in 100+ years? By the way, some "scientific observations" tend to believe on average the Earth will rise only a few degrees in 50-100 years. In 100 years, most organisms will have adapted to such a small small amount of change that it won't even matter. Global Warming- big fuckin joke...thanks a lot Al Gore..we wasted a perfectly good award on you becaused you tried to use a tiny amount data as a predictor. Sigh.. Oh and as for Hybrids...not cost efficient..maybe in a few years.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 10, 2009, 7:02 PM
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I'm totally on the GW bandwagon, but I found this interesting when I first read it: Antartica is getting colder. It's an old story, but there's others stuff out there. I felt this was a particularly well-written story.
And near the end of this story it says that not all of Antartica is cooling, but it makes sense that this part, the part closest to South America, is the part that is warming because the pole is where it appears to be getting colder.
Another story, which I found funny because I remember arguing with a friend over how many oceans there are in the world. I was always taught there were four, and so I was quite surprised to learn about the Southern Ocean when I much older. It's interesting how some countries teach the same geography differently.
And to keep on rambling, I once heard that with global warming some parts of the world may actually get colder first.
All in all, interesting stuff. I recycle when I can. I drive less when I can (carpool to the crag, ride my bike or take public transportation to work, etc), turn the lights and heat off as much as I can when I'm not there, and never use AC in the house (though I will use fans to redirect the air flow). I don't feel as if I'm doing enough. I wish I and others did more.
I'm moving to one of the largest holes in the atmosphere next year (Chile). I'm sure I'll feel the effects of human damage to the planet as a result.
Meh. I didn't have anything to add. Just some thoughts I found interesting. Carry on.
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