You don't need to have fallen on pro to have the basics of placing gear in straightforward placements down. But to understand the placement limits of various forms of active and passive gear in their many product manifestations you do have to have fallen more than a few times and further need to have had some marginal gear both hold and pull (small and marginal pro is all about the details). To be honest, I just find expressing strong opinions about the merits or shortcomings of different protection product attributes or use without such experience a bit of a frightening aspect of these on-line venues - too much dubious information ends up in circulation this way.

[...a frightening aspect of these on-line venues - too much dubious information ends up in circulation this way.

Truly, the essence of the internet curse.

Well, lead fall free.

I think I told you this a while back, the worst thing that can happen to a crack climber is tunnel vision. That and getting your tape so tight you can't use a jug when you encounter it.

Because you've waded into and expressed relatively strong opinions on a wide range of gear and trad related threads without a commensurate level of experience or knowledge and without any caveat to that effect. You may want to consider backing off on that on-line posture a bit or prefacing your remarks with a proviso when joining such frays until you actually do have more experience.

As an aside - "the leader must not fall" is an unfortunate meme that not only will not die, but gets actively propogated on-line these days, even by some well-respected folks like rgold. It has its place on some rock, for some skill levels, on some grades, for some people - but as a blanket statement and meme it's pretty counterproductive on the whole.

Again, it's an interesting Internet phenom - no way to know where someone is at or coming from when they post up and assert opinion or provide commentary.

There is a change in your mental game and confidence in your gear that comes from unplanned falling on your gear (never fall test gear on purpose that is whats suicidal), seems to me thats what your post is about, the stuff works you found that out and it made enough of an impact that you created an entire thread dedicated to that fact. Its nice to know you place gear that can take a fall so my comments not so far off, i don't know to many trad climbers that never fall on gear, falling on gear is scary but now you wont be as scared.

So my takeaway from all that is I have credibility issues because I've chosen not to push myself on gear. Sweet! Does this mean I get to keep my gumby card another year?

As an aside - "the leader must not fall" is an unfortunate meme that not only will not die, but gets actively propogated on-line these days, even by some well-respected folks like rgold. It has its place on some rock, for some skill levels, on some grades, for some people - but as a blanket statement and meme it's pretty counterproductive on the whole.

I go out and fall on gear a lot, as practice and when pushing my limits.

Keep it up. Won't be long before your another statistic, an unnecessary one at that.

Believe it or not, trad gear is made for catching falls. Crazy idea isn't it. People don't get hurt or become a statistic because they take falls, that happens all the time. They get hurt when they take falls in poor situations where they can hit the rock, gear pulls, or rock breaks. Just because you have an irrational fear doesn't mean that everyone who falls on gear is going to get hurt.

The only time I have EVER been hurt in a fall is sport climbing, a hold broke and I fell awkwardly into the rock, that all makes sense and is understandable.

With all the people out there climbing HARD trad, falling on routes over and over again pushing the limits why aren't we hearing about deaths left and right if it is so dangerous?

Have you got some unknown guarantees against whats bolded?
Take a clue from yourself.
Shit happens, why invite it.

Just as you have no guarantee that you wont slip and fall and die while toproping, I have none as well. I do have the ability to make a judgement as to when it's appropriate to climb into difficult terrain above my gear or down climb to my last piece. I also have the ability to make judgements on rock quality and how solid a placement is. If I am concerned I have the ability to back gear up, or, once again back down.

Falling is a part of climbing it happens to everyone. Even if you are toproping you fall. By taking control of the situation and learning more about rock, gear, and fall consequences you can engage those risks appropriately. Simply looking at falling on gear as a sooner or later you will die kind of situation is silly and fear based. I look at it as a learning opportunity and value the experience I gain along the way.

Not everyone should go out and just take whips all over the place on all their gear. If you are experienced and understand what is going on then it is your choice. I think it is incorrect however to say that falling is guaranteeing some kind of injury. That just breeds fear in an activity that can produce enough of it without the people who practice it adding fuel to the fire.

I'm want to make it clear to other noobs like you that read might your post that purposely taken falls onto gear is flat out stupid.

Yep, he teaches classes so people can get past your way of thinking.

Yep, he teaches classes so people can get past your way of thinking.