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climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 4:34 PM
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So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
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bill413


Aug 3, 2009, 4:43 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

FU.

I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them?

I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 4:51 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Just wait till you have kids. I hope somebody reads this back to you. Cool

Curt


codhands


Aug 3, 2009, 4:54 PM
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I second the FU. I have two kids age 3.5 and 5.5 and both are very interested and good at climbing. If you were a real hardman you would be climbing where it would be nearly impossible for those self serving jerk breeders to take their snotnosed little little inconsiderate parasites called children. That last part was for your benefit by BTW. Also, swearing doesn't make you cool.Smile


kriso9tails


Aug 3, 2009, 4:56 PM
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It's more an issue of teaching your kids to behave than leaving them at home. Do poorly behaved kids and parents that won't take responsibility for them really belong anywhere in particular?

I've seen adults that throw rocks at inappropriate places, run around screaming, cry and are a general nuisance. Usually it's someone throwing a tantrum on a route that's over their head. The only difference between these people and little children is that little children can generally be talked to and reasoned with. Bad behavior is bad behavior for the most part. It's true of adults, of kids, of dogs... of whatever.


lena_chita
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Aug 3, 2009, 5:03 PM
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1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?

2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?

3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.

5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.


6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.

7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.


knieveltech


Aug 3, 2009, 5:08 PM
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Nope. Not buying it.

All of the following are fair game for a rant:
- Crag dogs
- Boom Boxes
- Gibbering clots of gumbies
- Spraylord bullshit


Children, on the other hand, are perfectly acceptable. Hell, it's unusual these days to see parents willing to spend quality time with their kids outdoors. Props to em. If you don't like it do what most folks do when I break out the lycra at the crag: find somewhere else to climb.


jakedatc


Aug 3, 2009, 5:08 PM
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bill413 wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

FU.

I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them?

I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.

I've only seen set ups like that at the Meadows and where it was one kid in a playpen with one parent. I wouldn't think someone would haul all that shit up higher. I probably woulda been pissed too..

Would you have posted the same thing if the child that fell 5 feet was at Bonsai and took a 30 footer off the ledge and had been seriously injured or worse?


erisspirit


Aug 3, 2009, 5:10 PM
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That is more of an issue of parenting. Not teaching them to be well behaved, and not being attentive. If the children were well behaved, and the 3rd adult in the group payed attention, took them on a hike, or helped them climb, would it have been so terrible?
Seems like the biggest issue was they were loud, disrespectful, and ill supervised.

The main reason I love the outdoors so much is my parents took me out to the mountains every Sunday. It is one of my fondest memories, and I doubt I would be as attached to the wilderness if it wasn't for that.

Anywhere can be a dangerous environment for a child... even their own home.


subantz


Aug 3, 2009, 5:19 PM
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Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fireAngelic


dingus


Aug 3, 2009, 5:23 PM
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I don't mind kids at certain crags and as a parent, their noise and activity don't really bother me all that much if at all.

But there is a safety issue and I have seen parents put their kids into accelerated risk zones. Hell I've done it too.

If you REALLY want to know what its like to be a parent, watch a season's worth of Malcom in the Middle reruns. This will remind you brother... of yourself.

I agree generally that parents should not take their kids to busy crags until the kid can operate reasonably independantly and not get in other climbers way or play in fall zones

Throwing rocks is border line - sorta depends on circumstance then.

Mate did you say something to them or just simmer and burn? I've done both of that too.

DMT


irregularpanda


Aug 3, 2009, 5:24 PM
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Hey man,

I think you need to go climbing elsewhere, cuz fighting this is like fighting the tide. It's not gonna change anything. Did you even talk to the parents about your issue, did you approach them and confront them about the disturbance and "danger" involved?

Either that or you need a lawn and a rocking chair to go with your porch, so you can yell at small children who dare to walk on your precious turf.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 5:32 PM
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subantz wrote:
...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets...

It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle.

Curt


Neel


Aug 3, 2009, 5:39 PM
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bill413 wrote:
I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them?

I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.

QFT. I dont mind dogs, as long as their owners can control them. I'ts great that people are exposing their kids to the sport.

A couple things though -
1. if the kids are doing something that's bugging you or you think is potentially unsafe, politely tell their parents.

2. I agree with one thing... I try to keep my language clean when kids are around, but once in a while you'll rip from a hold and scream some explicit things. If parents are bringing their kids to the crag, it's somewhat expected they're going to hear some 4 letter words here and there.


bobbj22


Aug 3, 2009, 5:42 PM
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For the most part I do agree. Teach your kids how to act. I realize that kids are kids, but if you put those kids into a hazardous environment, you better teach them what to do and what not to do. Don't be mad at the kids, it's the parents that need to take control and educate their children. If they can't be left alone while you climb or belay then they aren't old enough, mature enough, or interested enough to be there.

Also, the rock is a public place. If you can't handle some other people losing their cool every once in awhile then you need to catch up with the times because you are going to find some sort of bad language at most public places that have young people, unfortunately. You can even find it on cable television which children generally have access to. Oh Noo! Hurry put a password lock on TBS before the children turn to lives of crime!!

If you weren't used to shrill screams and irritating nuisances then you would understand why other people get pissed. But you don't remember what it's like to not have kids so don't assume everyone has the same tolerance for irrating loud noises. How would you like it if I watched a basketball game on a surround sound while you tried to do yoga.

I don't have kids but I hope that when I do have kids, I don't assume everyone else does and wants to put up with your kids' distractions. How would you like it if I brought a huge stereo and blared the thong song for part of the day? I'm just saying that it's happened to me with a huge group of middle school girls. If you honestly think me yelling "shit" or "fuck" out of my own frustration in front of you and your kids is more offensive to the ear than listening to them scream and yell for an hour than you're simply delusional and I'm wanting to have kids less and less and I speak.

On the other side of things, as I said before it's a public place so if people can get their screaming toddlers there, then they may bring them (I wouldn't though w/ some of the approaches I've been on). I have to say that an annoying barking dog and an annoying screaming kid have a similar effects on my mood after a period of time when I'm in the zone. Dogs are awesome (I have/had several), just don't bring them if they are going to bark until you come back down.

In your situation I would've probably told them to get control of their children and would've apologized for cursing. Solved.


dingus


Aug 3, 2009, 5:45 PM
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curt wrote:
subantz wrote:
...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets...

It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle.

Curt

Lol. That was Bristol Fashion Sir, straight up Bristol.

DMT


subantz


Aug 3, 2009, 6:01 PM
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Hey, mudder trucker. Its what I says it is britch. OK let me appologize in advance. I loves to push da buttons. I simply enjoy to push and pull till someone gets offended. YOU WIN CURT. I was out with a kids summer camp over the past week. I watched my mouth and was well mannered. We all know in our right mind swearing around children is bad. I do not intentionaly curse around kids. I was trolling, yup I admit to it and you took the bait. NEXT.


shorty


Aug 3, 2009, 6:06 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions.

Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

It is unfortunate that we don't have a magic time machine which would allow us to:

1. see you during your pre-school years. I suspect you were a model of behavior.

2. see you with your future children during their pre-school years. I suspect they will be models of behavior.

3. see you during said recent climbs. I suspect you were a model of responsibility, who in no way would ever annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 6:07 PM
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subantz wrote:
...I was trolling, yup I admit to it and you took the bait. NEXT.

Sure, misspelling can often be confused with trolling.

Curt


tradrenn


Aug 3, 2009, 6:07 PM
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codhands wrote:
I second the FU.

Third.


subantz


Aug 3, 2009, 6:14 PM
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1. To lazy to do a spell check
2 cant read or write.
I vote for somewhere in between 1 and 5 but lean torward 3.


ACJ


Aug 3, 2009, 6:19 PM
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I think your going a little over the top, there are bound to be some responsible adults out there.

Anyway, this is what I experienced today...

A sketchy summer camp full of crappy staff leading trips to the local crag. Then I looked on in horror as the staff teach the kids how to carve their names into the rock and knock over widow maker trees while they wait for their turn to "race" up the 4th class terrain that they put on top rope.

Now somebody needs to revoke their commercial permit to climb in the national forests...


CrazyPetie


Aug 3, 2009, 6:38 PM
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I think kids should be exposed to the outdoors and climbing and such.. HOWEVER i'm with climberguy on this one i think.

Someone told you to watch your language around their kids at the crag? Thats would piss me off. Especially these days, kids are gonna learn "bad words" regardless of over protective sheltering. We're outside lady. Climbers swear. Goto the gym if you want your kids to have a christian climbing experiance.

Maybe if they just brought one kid that was well behaved, and who was there to learn to climb. I know i would deffinately be climbing elsewhere if 3 toddlers showed up.

Yea i was a shithead as a kid, who wasn't. I bet i annoyed alot of people. Climbing is a relaxing and peacful environment, it would be like bringing crying children to a movie.


peg_leg1


Aug 3, 2009, 6:42 PM
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You my friend are an idiot. God forbid that you ever reproduce. If you ever find someone shallow enough to mate with, what would you do if you had your kid, no babysitter, and really wanted to go climbing? I bet all of a sudden it would be OK, wouldn't it? Some childless friends might have bitched if I brought my kids to the crags, but now that they have kids it's cool.
Also, if you could focus enough to drown out the kids, maybe you would climb harder. If you have anymore bitching to do, go down to the Gunks and talk to the Family Climbing crowd.
BTW those kids that you bitch about are climbing 5.11's at 10 years old.


(This post was edited by peg_leg1 on Aug 3, 2009, 7:13 PM)


krazyk011


Aug 3, 2009, 6:43 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Dude, I bet you are probably more annoying than most families with kids i've come across at the crag. I can't tell you how many 'adults' have pissed me off at the crag. I do agree that bringing 3 kids out without any other adults to help is probably not the best of ideas and would surely piss me off too... but-

my wife and I climb, and bring our 8 month old out on every trip. you bet your ass we bring toys and tent. She is awesome and loves to be outside at the crag. granted she is young but none the less, we manage her well. We are quite responsible and keep her happy. Shes got just as much right to be there as you. So, in that case, fuck YOU for thinking you are so privileged. Go the fuck back to gym (or to the Red) where all you elitist people think you own every cliff you flop up... and quit your bitching. its people like you that annoy ME.


kriso9tails


Aug 3, 2009, 6:47 PM
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You should have cut off your post right before this part. Makes you sound like just as much of a dick... and I know all about sounding like a dick from first hand experience.

krazyk011 wrote:
Go the fuck back to gym (or to the Red) where all you elitist people think you own every cliff you flop up... and quit your bitching. its people like you that annoy ME.


jakedatc


Aug 3, 2009, 6:55 PM
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So all of you are ok with inattentive parents letting 3 toddlers wander around a crag throwing rocks, crying and almost injuring themselves. that's cool.

A few months ago i was part of a group with a 3 yr old. Group of 4 adults one being the parent. She barely made a peep longer than 10 seconds the whole weekend. We all took turns taking care of her and making sure she was playing safely and not crying. When she did try to do something wrong she was told not to and why not.. she will learn much more than those kids screaming and throwing rocks with no intervention.

I think the point of the guy's post was the inattentive parents and the reckless and unsafe behavior of the kids. not that they were actually there.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 6:59 PM
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CrazyPetie wrote:
Yea i was a shithead as a kid...

Sounds like you still are.

Curt


onceahardman


Aug 3, 2009, 6:59 PM
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Public land means EVERYBODY can go there.

Don't like climbing with kids? Buy your own crag, and post it. Just think how much fun you could have, all alone.

I'm sure you never threw a stone when you were a kid.

Jackass.


jamincan


Aug 3, 2009, 7:17 PM
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I do think it's important to have an adult who can supervise the kids. I recall a couple with one child at the Red two years ago. Their daughter was generally well behaved, but tripped and stubbed her toe or scraped her knee or received some other minor injury. Unfortunately, mom was half way up the route, and dad was belaying her, and there was no one who could console her.

On the other hand, I think it's great to bring kids outside and instill an early appreciation for nature.


dynosore


Aug 3, 2009, 7:28 PM
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I'd rather be around little kids than a grown up (?) that swears as he hangdogs his way up a 5.11 bolted chosspile. At least the kids have an excuse for being annoying, they aren't old enough to know better. I bet you're just mad because the 5 year old onsighted your long-standing project.


chrisJoosse


Aug 3, 2009, 7:44 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Let me add another FU to the chorus.

I am just as interested in having a good time as you, and I am fervently committed to not being one of 'those &@#$%*parents', but if you can't get along when reasonably-regulated kids are around, that's your problem.
Fortunately, when I bring my boy to the crag, I am encouraged by an approving community. And I do hope that if you have a safety (or really any sort of) concern about me or my boy that you'd let me know, rather than bitching about it later on teh interwebz. At least that would be useful.

My wife and I both climb and so does our son. He's not old enough to be unsupervised, so we bring friends willing to take turns on the wall and with him. So far, we've managed to have things work out so that he's always with a responsible adult and well away from the foot of the crag, unless of course he's on the rock, roped and climbing. (yes, with a cute little body harness and helmet)

Now I'll agree with you 100% that unregulated kids throwing rocks and putting themselves or others in danger is intolerable- which begs the question: why did you tolerate it? I understand that other peoples' kids shouldn't be your problem, but if you've got a legit concern over safety and you say nothing, I really wouldn't be surprised if your conscience gives you hell for it- and your conscience is really your own problem, 'cause you know it's right. (and that's really easy to resent, yessirreebob)


dudemanbu


Aug 3, 2009, 7:48 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
So all of you are ok with inattentive parents letting 3 toddlers wander around a crag throwing rocks, crying and almost injuring themselves. that's cool.

A few months ago i was part of a group with a 3 yr old. Group of 4 adults one being the parent. She barely made a peep longer than 10 seconds the whole weekend. We all took turns taking care of her and making sure she was playing safely and not crying. When she did try to do something wrong she was told not to and why not.. she will learn much more than those kids screaming and throwing rocks with no intervention.

I think the point of the guy's post was the inattentive parents and the reckless and unsafe behavior of the kids. not that they were actually there.

+1


dingus


Aug 3, 2009, 7:48 PM
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subantz wrote:
I was trolling, yup I admit to it and you took the bait. NEXT.

Tourette's syndrome?????

Get it, motherfucker?

DMT


bigevilgrape


Aug 3, 2009, 7:50 PM
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I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.


(This post was edited by bigevilgrape on Aug 3, 2009, 7:51 PM)


shockabuku


Aug 3, 2009, 7:52 PM
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Yeah, your damn dogs too!


krazyk011


Aug 3, 2009, 7:53 PM
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Yea, probably..

maybe next time i'll leave out the swearing?


Basta916


Aug 3, 2009, 8:15 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
So all of you are ok with inattentive parents letting 3 toddlers wander around a crag throwing rocks, crying and almost injuring themselves. that's cool.

A few months ago i was part of a group with a 3 yr old. Group of 4 adults one being the parent. She barely made a peep longer than 10 seconds the whole weekend. We all took turns taking care of her and making sure she was playing safely and not crying. When she did try to do something wrong she was told not to and why not.. she will learn much more than those kids screaming and throwing rocks with no intervention.

I think the point of the guy's post was the inattentive parents and the reckless and unsafe behavior of the kids. not that they were actually there.
+1
Amen!!!
glad to see some people take care of there children in public places.
It's becoming a lost art.


kriso9tails


Aug 3, 2009, 8:18 PM
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I got nothing against that; in context I thought the rest of your post was right on the mark. I just didn't see the point of bringing the Red or raggin' on gym climbers... at least not in this thread.


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 8:32 PM
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I think a few of the righteous FUs and "you obviously don't have kids" dismissals are missing the point.

Kids, by definition, are spazzes. Cute, but they know not what they do. Even kids who are pretty good more often than not can be a handful. I can't blame them. The crag is a fun place to be, and they see the adults having fun, so why act like they're in church?

This is why they need adults to look after them, role model and reel them in if necessary. Children need to be controlled when they're at the crag, the gym, the grocery store, the movies, the county jail waiting area, whatever. If you can do that, great. If you can't, leave the kids at home. If you can't leave the kids at home and enjoy your activity, then you stay home too. Because life is just really unfair like that, you know?

I don't have children, but I don't mind them. I actually find them pretty enjoyable once they're old enough to have a conversation with you. It's just a courtesy thing. I've seen uncontrolled kids screaming and stampeding and throwing rocks at the crag and wanted to beat their PARENTS like a pinata (they were already hanging like one, so all I needed was a stick). I've also seen kids just chillin', digging in the dirt with their Hot Wheels and eating their fruit snacks away from the belay hang. And I felt no hostility whatsoever. I'd rather a whole field trip of quiet, respectful first-graders than one "I just got my lead card" douchebag and his screeching belay slave girlfriend having an epic on a warm-up.

That might be elitist, but it's hardly elitist to expect adults to be in control of their children at all times.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 8:34 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
I think a few of the righteous FUs and "you obviously don't have kids" dismissals are missing the point.

Kids, by definition, are spazzes. Cute, but they know not what they do.

True, but we love you anyway. Cool

Curt


dudemanbu


Aug 3, 2009, 8:42 PM
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Basta916 wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
So all of you are ok with inattentive parents letting 3 toddlers wander around a crag throwing rocks, crying and almost injuring themselves. that's cool.

A few months ago i was part of a group with a 3 yr old. Group of 4 adults one being the parent. She barely made a peep longer than 10 seconds the whole weekend. We all took turns taking care of her and making sure she was playing safely and not crying. When she did try to do something wrong she was told not to and why not.. she will learn much more than those kids screaming and throwing rocks with no intervention.

I think the point of the guy's post was the inattentive parents and the reckless and unsafe behavior of the kids. not that they were actually there.
+1
Amen!!!
glad to see some people take care of there children in public places.
It's becoming a lost art.

Just to keep count, that's +3 for jake.


(This post was edited by dudemanbu on Aug 3, 2009, 8:42 PM)


Partner climboard


Aug 3, 2009, 8:44 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Bwahahah- you got shushed by a soccer mom and it tweaked you so hard that you had to go on an epic rant on the interwebz.

Did the toddlers throwing rocks all of three feet really scare you that much?

Oh, and FU.


CrazyPetie


Aug 3, 2009, 8:45 PM
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curt wrote:
CrazyPetie wrote:
Yea i was a shithead as a kid...

Sounds like you still are.

Curt

Thanks for throwin that in there. You're cool.


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 8:47 PM
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curt wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I think a few of the righteous FUs and "you obviously don't have kids" dismissals are missing the point.

Kids, by definition, are spazzes. Cute, but they know not what they do.

True, but we love you anyway. Cool

Curt
Your kid has never pissed me off at the crags. Sure, he looks just like you but the poor little man can't help that. Cool

At least he's clearly had good parents.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 8:49 PM
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CrazyPetie wrote:
curt wrote:
CrazyPetie wrote:
Yea i was a shithead as a kid...

Sounds like you still are.

Curt

Thanks for throwin that in there. You're cool.

You're welcome.

Curt


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 8:52 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
curt wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I think a few of the righteous FUs and "you obviously don't have kids" dismissals are missing the point.

Kids, by definition, are spazzes. Cute, but they know not what they do.

True, but we love you anyway. Cool

Curt
Your kid has never pissed me off at the crags. Sure, he looks just like you but the poor little man can't help that. Cool

At least he's clearly had good parents.

Thanks. By the way, the "poor little man" doesn't turn 13 until next month and is already 5'10" tall, 175lbs and wears size 12 shoes.

Curt


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2009, 8:53 PM
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Wow... thats is some serious douche-baggery if I've ever seen any.

Why not bitch and moan to the parents instead of your virtual friends on the interwebs? Did you just follow them to get more and more reasons to fume all to yourself? Did you take notes so you could accurately report back to people who don't give a shit?

FU


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 8:57 PM
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curt wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Just wait till you have kids. I hope somebody reads this back to you. Cool

Curt

I've read this entire thread, and this post is the most glaring of the lot. The whole elitist "i'm better then you because i've procreated and your can't possibly understand what it's like to bring a child to adulthood mentality is a) disgusting, and b) sorely misguided.
No, I don't have kids. The planet is over-populated as it is, and furthering the status quo will accomplish nothing. Your feeble cries of "fuck you" do not affect me, much like the fingers and honks of rush hour do not affect me.
In reply to:
3. You obviously don't have kids, blah blah blah i have kids and therefore i am better than you...

4. You do not have kids, so see above, scumbag
Can you let your judgment of me relate to some principle beyond the fact that I haven't allowed my chromosomes to join with an X chromosome and produce the miracle of life?
knieveltech wrote:
Nope. Not buying it.

All of the following are fair game for a rant:
- Crag dogs
- Boom Boxes
- Gibbering clots of gumbies
- Spraylord bullshit


Children, on the other hand, are perfectly acceptable. Hell, it's unusual these days to see parents willing to spend quality time with their kids outdoors. Props to em. If you don't like it do what most folks do when I break out the lycra at the crag: find somewhere else to climb.
The first post worthy of my respect.

jakedatc wrote:
I've only seen set ups like that at the Meadows and where it was one kid in a playpen with one parent. I wouldn't think someone would haul all that shit up higher. I probably woulda been pissed too..

Would you have posted the same thing if the child that fell 5 feet was at Bonsai and took a 30 footer off the ledge and had been seriously injured or worse?

My wfr training taught me to look at mechanism of injury. A few more feet and the little bastard would have been sent to a trauma team. The parents have been blessed with dumb luck.

More to follow. I can't fight stupid in one post.


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 8:58 PM
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He is so going to beat your brittle ass at the father-son picnic. Hehehe.


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:01 PM
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shorty wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions.

Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

It is unfortunate that we don't have a magic time machine which would allow us to:

1. see you during your pre-school years. I suspect you were a model of behavior.

2. see you with your future children during their pre-school years. I suspect they will be models of behavior.

3. see you during said recent climbs. I suspect you were a model of responsibility, who in no way would ever annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Granted, I may have been an irresponsible child as a child. Blame the ritalin.
Future children there will be none. Fuck off.
How about you during your recent climbs? Climbing is an arena of effort. Success and failure both hold lessons for those who are receptive.
I'm done with you.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:05 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
curt wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

Just wait till you have kids. I hope somebody reads this back to you. Cool

Curt

I've read this entire thread, and this post is the most glaring of the lot. The whole elitist "i'm better then you because i've procreated and your can't possibly understand what it's like to bring a child to adulthood mentality is a) disgusting, and b) sorely misguided.
No, I don't have kids...

Possibly you missed the Cool at the end of my post. I'm not saying that I'm better than you, but you are seriously mistaken if you think you can possibly understand what it is like to be a parent before you actually become one.

Curt


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:06 PM
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peg_leg1 wrote:
You my friend are an idiot. God forbid that you ever reproduce. If you ever find someone shallow enough to mate with, what would you do if you had your kid, no babysitter, and really wanted to go climbing? I bet all of a sudden it would be OK, wouldn't it? Some childless friends might have bitched if I brought my kids to the crags, but now that they have kids it's cool.
Also, if you could focus enough to drown out the kids, maybe you would climb harder. If you have anymore bitching to do, go down to the Gunks and talk to the Family Climbing crowd.
BTW those kids that you bitch about are climbing 5.11's at 10 years old.
How fucking dare you.
a) reproduction is a responsibility which is often made light of. I will never make light of the weight which anothers life depends on my actions. Including bringing my kids to a place in which they clearly do not belong; aka the crag.
b)how does the top-roping chosspile that is the gunks have anything to do with this, other than as a playground for retards?


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:10 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
So all of you are ok with inattentive parents letting 3 toddlers wander around a crag throwing rocks, crying and almost injuring themselves. that's cool.

A few months ago i was part of a group with a 3 yr old. Group of 4 adults one being the parent. She barely made a peep longer than 10 seconds the whole weekend. We all took turns taking care of her and making sure she was playing safely and not crying. When she did try to do something wrong she was told not to and why not.. she will learn much more than those kids screaming and throwing rocks with no intervention.

I think the point of the guy's post was the inattentive parents and the reckless and unsafe behavior of the kids. not that they were actually there.

You're as much a part of the problem as anyone.
My point is that there is a minimum responsibility level required for climbing, or even hanging out at the base of a popular climb. Shithead 3 year olds do not possess this responsibility.


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2009, 9:13 PM
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Geezus!

Obviously you never were a child, you were born out of a test-tube at the age of 21 and you didn't have parents who loved you and wanted to raise you with an appreciation for the outdoors.

Thank goodness you'll never spawn offspring, but some people do choose to have children. It is not your place to be chastising them for being actively involved in their children's lives, rather than leaving the kids on the couch, munching pringles and soda.


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:13 PM
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Re: [chrisJoosse] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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chrisJoosse wrote:


Let me add another FU to the chorus.

I am just as interested in having a good time as you, and I am fervently committed to not being one of 'those &@#$%*parents', but if you can't get along when reasonably-regulated kids are around, that's your problem.

I'll add a fuck you to the chorus of those too emasculated to say so. i.e. you. Fuck off and rot.

The shitheads I referenced were not regulated, were not supervised, and were not safe.
Why did I not call the Department of Children and Families/ It ain't my business. Climbing is.


rockreaver


Aug 3, 2009, 9:14 PM
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My respect for you has always been pretty good (wether you care or not, most people like to know though) but with these comments here you have kind of cemented the deal. I'm not going to say anything to the OP. He kind of strikes me as the guy that will father kids and then leave them because he feels they slow him down. To guys like that I've got nothing to say.

To you though... Much respect to you. Much respect. You said it. You said it right.

My kids have all been to the rock with me and I'm so proud of them for having the courage to do it. They made me very proud.


(This post was edited by rockreaver on Aug 3, 2009, 9:15 PM)


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:15 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
I think a few of the righteous FUs and "you obviously don't have kids" dismissals are missing the point.

Kids, by definition, are spazzes. Cute, but they know not what they do. Even kids who are pretty good more often than not can be a handful. I can't blame them. The crag is a fun place to be, and they see the adults having fun, so why act like they're in church?

This is why they need adults to look after them, role model and reel them in if necessary. Children need to be controlled when they're at the crag, the gym, the grocery store, the movies, the county jail waiting area, whatever. If you can do that, great. If you can't, leave the kids at home. If you can't leave the kids at home and enjoy your activity, then you stay home too. Because life is just really unfair like that, you know?

I don't have children, but I don't mind them. I actually find them pretty enjoyable once they're old enough to have a conversation with you. It's just a courtesy thing. I've seen uncontrolled kids screaming and stampeding and throwing rocks at the crag and wanted to beat their PARENTS like a pinata (they were already hanging like one, so all I needed was a stick). I've also seen kids just chillin', digging in the dirt with their Hot Wheels and eating their fruit snacks away from the belay hang. And I felt no hostility whatsoever. I'd rather a whole field trip of quiet, respectful first-graders than one "I just got my lead card" douchebag and his screeching belay slave girlfriend having an epic on a warm-up.

That might be elitist, but it's hardly elitist to expect adults to be in control of their children at all times.

Wow.

A voice of reason.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:16 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
...Climbing is an arena of effort. Success and failure both hold lessons for those who are receptive...

Well, you don't climb very hard, so I suspect you know even less about that topic than you do about children.

Curt


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:19 PM
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Kartessa wrote:
Wow... thats is some serious douche-baggery if I've ever seen any.

Why not bitch and moan to the parents instead of your virtual friends on the interwebs? Did you just follow them to get more and more reasons to fume all to yourself? Did you take notes so you could accurately report back to people who don't give a shit?

FU

Oh, so you wish to challenge my integrity? I did complain to the supervisors[/]. Nothing happened. Did I take notes?
I think all the notes that needed to be taken were done so while I was three bolts up: One of the older parasites took his 5' digger nose first. The parents wondered how something so tragic could befall them. I lowered, and they were gone before I could be of service.
FU. Scum.


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2009, 9:21 PM
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Its your fault for throwing the kid off...

Children can sense evil from great distances


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 9:22 PM
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curt wrote:
...but you are seriously mistaken if you think you can possibly understand what it is like to be a parent before you actually become one.

Curt
I'm not sure how many of the non-parents really purported to know what it's like to have kids. I don't. I think we're just thinking of common sense and courtesy. I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:26 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
curt wrote:
...but you are seriously mistaken if you think you can possibly understand what it is like to be a parent before you actually become one.

Curt
I'm not sure how many of the non-parents really purported to know what it's like to have kids. I don't. I think we're just thinking of common sense and courtesy. I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I think it's all about being able to walk a mile in another man's shoes. Common sense and courtesy do not change, but one's priorities certainly can.

Curt


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2009, 9:27 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I had one tantrum as a child... one... my mother saw to it that I showed nothing but model behaviour in public. Look, don't touch. Listen, don't speak.

Should I ever try to use her techniques on my son I would have Children's Aid banging down my door because somewhere in the last 20 years it's become illegal to spank, yell or do anything that may potentially harm their self esteem as adults.


kriso9tails


Aug 3, 2009, 9:32 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
The first post worthy of my respect.

Seems to have pretty low market value in this thread. I was going to offer to buy it from him for a penny, but then I realized I actually wanted the penny more.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:32 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
He is so going to beat your brittle ass at the father-son picnic. Hehehe.

His pediatrician says he will be 6' 6" when he's fully grown, so I have definitely considered that possibility.

Curt


keithspernak


Aug 3, 2009, 9:39 PM
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WORD!!!


rockreaver


Aug 3, 2009, 9:42 PM
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You know I'm a parent and I'm a damned good one. I've been told it enough I feel I can quote that and spray a bit. My kids know how to have fun and rip up earth, turf, heaven and hell. However when I give them the "quiet" chat and pull out the bags of age appropriate distractions they shut it and get it done.

My wife and I share a view that kids who have a bag of age appropriate distractions (coloring, video games, pocket knives and whittling wood, etc...), food, snacks and parent instilled self-awareness can be taken anywhere and left largely unattended.

My kids have been to the crag admittedly our crags see 20 people a week instead of an hour. That doesn't mean I let my kids act like wild dogs even if I am there by myself. I let my kids hang it all out at the pool, the back yard and other spots like that but in the woods they respect the land and they respect my chance to enjoy it.

We take our kids everywhere and we talk with them about how they should act. We discuss in the car on the way over what behavior is okay and what behavior is not okay.

Now I do have 3 kids all young. If I packed them into your haunt and got them set up how would you feel? Understand that they would be spread out in a safe place on a blanket with chairs, plenty of food, distractions and a myriad of other things. They would know in advance to say "Hello", "Thank You" and "Let me get my parents for you."

If this situation would have caused you to walk on by and not even notice and not even make this post then I'll let you off the hook. Poorly managed kids ruin everyone's day and I have always believed that my rights end where yours begin and if you feel like you have the right to climb quietly, drop f-bombs and grope your partner that's fine. I'd rather you didn't but those are conversations I planned on having with my kids sooner or later and sooner is fine too. Know what I mean?

So let's aim for some redemption here. Would the situation I describe have sent you over to me and would you have said, "Your kids don't belong here it's not safe?" or would you have even noticed? Also understand that all of my kids even my 4 year old are pretty solid 5.7/5.8 climbers.

How would that situation sit with you? If you'd roll with the same response well then I guess you get what you get and that's how it goes. I don't condemn you or defend you. I'll just step around the body that has all the knives in it's back and tell my kids we'll talk about it later. Wink If however your response would be, "Whoa. That family kicks @$$. I didn't know people still had behaved kids." then sweet. Come on over and we'll pass the fruit snacks. Tongue

Take care man. Not all parents are bad people and not all kids make bad parents. In time life has it's own rhythm don't force it. Close your eyes, test the hold and when it feels right make your move. It's all good.

Whatever you do though be kind to kids. I really believe that the adults in a kids life have the biggest influence on whether or not that kid grows up to shoot someone and that someone might be you.Unsure Your behavior will certainly influence the people around you especially kids.

I'll never forget when my son said, "Damn dad that looks fun." he was 7 and I made a mental note to have a chat about that word and that I'd never say that in front of him again.

Belay is on.


(This post was edited by rockreaver on Aug 3, 2009, 9:45 PM)


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 9:43 PM
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Kartessa wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I had one tantrum as a child... one... my mother saw to it that I showed nothing but model behaviour in public. Look, don't touch. Listen, don't speak.

Should I ever try to use her techniques on my son I would have Children's Aid banging down my door because somewhere in the last 20 years it's become illegal to spank, yell or do anything that may potentially harm their self esteem as adults.
And see, that's probably why we get so many unleashed brats these days.

The kids who live next door to me are constantly screaming... SCREAMING... in the street, throwing pebbles at my dogs to make them bark, leaving their candy wrappers in my yard, zipping around my driveway even when the car is running. I know they're too little to know any better, but I never see their parents supervising. Somebody who works a few cubicles over from me regularly brings her kid to work. It is NEVER quiet. It screeches like a dolphin with an ear infection.

Children have always been stinkers but I don't remember so many kids being so awful when I was a kid 20 years ago (Curt, shut your mowf.)


keithspernak


Aug 3, 2009, 9:44 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?

2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?

3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.

5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.


6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.

7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.

Who gives a shit about if someone climbs harder than someone else! Climbing is probably one of the most meaningless things out there.


(This post was edited by keithspernak on Aug 3, 2009, 9:47 PM)


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:49 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I had one tantrum as a child... one... my mother saw to it that I showed nothing but model behaviour in public. Look, don't touch. Listen, don't speak.

Should I ever try to use her techniques on my son I would have Children's Aid banging down my door because somewhere in the last 20 years it's become illegal to spank, yell or do anything that may potentially harm their self esteem as adults.
And see, that's probably why we get so many unleashed brats these days.

The kids who live next door to me are constantly screaming... SCREAMING... in the street, throwing pebbles at my dogs to make them bark, leaving their candy wrappers in my yard, zipping around my driveway even when the car is running. I know they're too little to know any better, but I never see their parents supervising. Somebody who works a few cubicles over from me regularly brings her kid to work. It is NEVER quiet. It screeches like a dolphin with an ear infection.

Children have always been stinkers but I don't remember so many kids being so awful when I was a kid 20 years ago (Curt, shut your mowf.)

I keep telling you to move out of the trailer park. Cool

Curt


climberguy2011


Aug 3, 2009, 9:50 PM
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rockreaver wrote:
You know I'm a parent and I'm a damned good one. I've been told it enough I feel I can quote that and spray a bit. My kids know how to have fun and rip up earth, turf, heaven and hell. However when I give them the "quiet" chat and pull out the bags of age appropriate distractions they shut it and get it done.
It appears to me that this is noting more than bread and circuses.
In reply to:
My wife and I share a view that kids who have a bag of age appropriate distractions (coloring, video games, pocket knives and whittling wood, etc...), food, snacks and parent instilled self-awareness can be taken anywhere and left largely unattended.

My kids have been to the crag admittedly our crags see 20 people a week instead of an hour. That doesn't mean I let my kids act like wild dogs even if I am there by myself. I let my kids hang it all out at the pool, the back yard and other spots like that but in the woods they respect the land and they respect my chance to enjoy it.
Would you like a cookie and a blowjob?

We take our kids everywhere and we talk with them about how they should act. We discuss in the car on the way over what behavior is okay and what behavior is not okay.

Now I do have 3 kids all young. If I packed them into your haunt and got them set up how would you feel? Understand that they would be spread out in a safe place on a blanket with chairs, plenty of food, distractions and a myriad of other things. They would know in advance to say "Hello", "Thank You" and "Let me get my parents for you."

If this situation would have caused you to walk on by and not even notice and not even make this post then I'll let you off the hook. Poorly managed kids ruin everyone's day and I have always believed that my rights end where yours begin and if you feel like you have the right to climb quietly, drop f-bombs and grope your partner that's fine. I'd rather you didn't but those are conversations I planned on having with my kids sooner or later and sooner is fine too. Know what I mean?

So let's aim for some redemption here. Would the situation I describe have sent you over to me and would you have said, "Your kids don't belong here it's not safe?" or would you have even noticed? Also understand that all of my kids even my 4 year old are pretty solid 5.7/5.8 climbers.

How would that situation sit with you? If you'd roll with the same response well then I guess you get what you get and that's how it goes. I don't condemn you or defend you. I'll just step around the body that has all the knives in it's back and tell my kids we'll talk about it later. Wink If however your response would be, "Whoa. That family kicks @$$. I didn't know people still had behaved kids." then sweet. Come on over and we'll pass the fruit snacks. Tongue

Take care man. Not all parents are bad people and not all kids make bad parents. In time life has it's own rhythm don't force it. Clothes your eyes, test the hold and when it feels right make your move. It's all good.

Whatever you do though be kind to kids. I really believe that the adults in a kids life have the biggest influence on whether or not that kid grows up to shoot someone and that someone might be you.Unsure Your behavior will certainly influence the people around you especially kids.

I'll never forget when my son said, "Damn dad that looks fun." he was 7 and I made a mental note to have a chat about that word and that I'd never say that in front of him again.

Belay is on.
I noticed the obscenity. It is less than life. As awesome as it is, the true levels are not that of the spinals.


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 9:52 PM
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keithspernak wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?

2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?

3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.

5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.


6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.

7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.

Who gives a shit about if someone climbs harder than someone else! Climbing is probably one of the most meaningless things out there.

That's what a whole bunch of weak climbers say. By the way, why do you post here?

Curt


climbsomething


Aug 3, 2009, 9:58 PM
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curt wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I had one tantrum as a child... one... my mother saw to it that I showed nothing but model behaviour in public. Look, don't touch. Listen, don't speak.

Should I ever try to use her techniques on my son I would have Children's Aid banging down my door because somewhere in the last 20 years it's become illegal to spank, yell or do anything that may potentially harm their self esteem as adults.
And see, that's probably why we get so many unleashed brats these days.

The kids who live next door to me are constantly screaming... SCREAMING... in the street, throwing pebbles at my dogs to make them bark, leaving their candy wrappers in my yard, zipping around my driveway even when the car is running. I know they're too little to know any better, but I never see their parents supervising. Somebody who works a few cubicles over from me regularly brings her kid to work. It is NEVER quiet. It screeches like a dolphin with an ear infection.

Children have always been stinkers but I don't remember so many kids being so awful when I was a kid 20 years ago (Curt, shut your mowf.)

I keep telling you to move out of the trailer park. Cool

Curt
Manufactured home community. We gots stemwalls!


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 10:03 PM
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climbsomething wrote:
curt wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
climbsomething wrote:
I know my parents made sure I didn't get away with acting like a shrieking wind-up toy in public. And now, I only have a few crag tantrums Tongue

I had one tantrum as a child... one... my mother saw to it that I showed nothing but model behaviour in public. Look, don't touch. Listen, don't speak.

Should I ever try to use her techniques on my son I would have Children's Aid banging down my door because somewhere in the last 20 years it's become illegal to spank, yell or do anything that may potentially harm their self esteem as adults.
And see, that's probably why we get so many unleashed brats these days.

The kids who live next door to me are constantly screaming... SCREAMING... in the street, throwing pebbles at my dogs to make them bark, leaving their candy wrappers in my yard, zipping around my driveway even when the car is running. I know they're too little to know any better, but I never see their parents supervising. Somebody who works a few cubicles over from me regularly brings her kid to work. It is NEVER quiet. It screeches like a dolphin with an ear infection.

Children have always been stinkers but I don't remember so many kids being so awful when I was a kid 20 years ago (Curt, shut your mowf.)

I keep telling you to move out of the trailer park. Cool

Curt
Manufactured home community. We gots stemwalls!

Ah, my mistake then.

Curt


rockreaver


Aug 3, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Bread and circuses? Sexual favors? Obscenities?

That explains why you are so down on kids. So that's what it was like for you growing up? Ouch. Man that's painful.

You should get some help.Tongue


jt512


Aug 3, 2009, 10:53 PM
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bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Five stars. You should break your silence more often.

Jay


chrisJoosse


Aug 3, 2009, 11:17 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
chrisJoosse wrote:


Let me add another FU to the chorus.

I am just as interested in having a good time as you, and I am fervently committed to not being one of 'those &@#$%*parents', but if you can't get along when reasonably-regulated kids are around, that's your problem.

I'll add a fuck you to the chorus of those too emasculated to say so. i.e. you. Fuck off and rot.

The shitheads I referenced were not regulated, were not supervised, and were not safe.
Why did I not call the Department of Children and Families/ It ain't my business. Climbing is.
Yet strangely you've made it your business- you didn't have to start this conversation, you know. The subject is obviously important to you.

I get your point, really I do. You want the crag to work, and unregulated kids render the situation very quickly unworkable. You may even want the crag to work for everyone, but your 'solution' (leave the kids at home) doesn't work for me. And your attitude almost, but doesn't quite incline me to organize a field trip of 4-year olds to come to your crag and sing a rousing chorus of Barney tunes until your liver explodes in a spray of apoplexy. Tongue

It sucks when people aren't responsible, but the solution to the problem is not to be an asshole about it. Ghandi once said "be the change you want to see in the world", and he was on to something- if it's important to you, (and it obviously is) you really have limited options: make a difference or be resentful about it. Your call.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing my boy to the crag. I do hope you can appreciate how that might be important to me. And if you can't... well, I can always start up with the kid's chorus. Sly


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 11:28 PM
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jt512 wrote:
bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Five stars. You should break your silence more often.

Jay

I'm not completely surprised that you would support the singularly selfish perspective here, but I am somewhat surprised that you don't have more empathy for those who have children.

Curt


bigevilgrape


Aug 4, 2009, 4:19 AM
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climboard wrote:
Did the toddlers throwing rocks all of three feet really scare you that much?

I don't know about him but any time kids are chucking around rocks it scares the piss out of me. Especially at rumney where there is often another crag directly below the one you are at.


robbovius


Aug 4, 2009, 4:19 AM
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curt wrote:
subantz wrote:
...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets...

It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle.

Curt

dude, he's from fucking Georgia, props to him that he can simply operate a PC and write, well... anything.


robbovius


Aug 4, 2009, 4:30 AM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.


austinnokc


Aug 4, 2009, 5:08 AM
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Wow, This thread has gone crazy. If this is possibly an attempted troll I believe it worked.

Mad Climbers Hierarchy
1. Broken Holds or Holds broken by people.
2. Being mean to little Children.
3. Rainy Days
4. Gear Failure
5. Unclean climbing practices.
6. Keep Adding Fellows

I have a little 15 mon old at the house and she loves climbing over momma and me. Can not wait until she can come climbing with me and my partners but that won't be for a while longer. I do look forward to sharing the outdoors and the vertical world with her.

Austin


lodi5onu


Aug 4, 2009, 5:33 AM
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Come on! You still got the onsight of Couch Potato 5.9

haha, pussy


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 4, 2009, 6:11 AM
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The "cookies and bj" comment to a post that was calm, polite and clear shows one of two thing:
1) The user is a troll. And a pretty good one. I mean "Leave Your Damn Dog at Home" has been done to death.

With the cookie/bj comment, the OP even throws his newly minted persona under the bus to further his cause.

Wonder who this alt goes with....

2) The user is a emotionally unstable. My bet is the reason the honking/fingers in traffic don't bother him is because he does it so often he's no longer aware he's speaking of himself with that comment.


jdefazio


Aug 4, 2009, 6:16 AM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
The planet is over-populated as it is, and furthering the status quo will accomplish nothing.

Yawn *tired argument is tired*


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 6:19 AM
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Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on Aug 4, 2009, 6:20 AM)


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 6:40 AM
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dingus wrote:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT

I prefer the kids.

I never see cats at the crags.


reg


Aug 4, 2009, 6:49 AM
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lena_chita wrote:
1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?

2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?

3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.

5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.


6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.

7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.

climberguy - what she said!


wonderwoman


Aug 4, 2009, 6:54 AM
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Here is where your problem begins:

climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness.

Rumney is a zoo. If you want solitude, try some multi-pitch or areas that have longer approaches. Then I can write a rant complaining about you being there and ruining my day of climbing.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 7:00 AM
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In reply to:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

Nothing wrong with dog people or people people, only people who cannot control their dogs and people who think that they're more important because they chose to bang and creampie instead of wearing a raincoat or popping a pill. You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up. One of those things is frequent climbing trips and having time for yourself. It sucks but you need to wait until they are older and more mature so they can be safe while alone, can be educated and appreciate the environment, and not disturb everyone else. If you know the kids are really interested in climbing and not just using the base of the crag like a playground, then I say of course bring them. Its for the better of the community. When it ruins everyone else's good time because you chose to have a kid and are too impatient to wait for the right time to introduce them to climbing, then I say leave the kids at home.

Let me say that this is assuming you are trad or sport climbing. If you are bouldering I would say you can keep a good eye on younger ones while working some problems out. When bouldering, you can typically find other problems in the area and they are less likely to set up camp if they are moving constantly too.

Oh and there's the profanity thing again. If you want to bring your kids and you know they are little shits, then you are a prick and quit sharing your living example of bad parenting with everyone else. As a parent, you know if your child is a pain in public. I know this because I was a pain. If I wanted to be an asshole I could instill a new vocabulary in your child's mind. Then you could have a Denace the Menace with a sailor's mouth. If that doesn't work, I could always throw rocks back. Pfft haha


fresh


Aug 4, 2009, 7:02 AM
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at least kids don't track mud all over your rope and whine when their parents start climbing, as all dogs do.

(yes, even your dog.)


AltitudeJunkie


Aug 4, 2009, 7:03 AM
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AGREED!!!
when i have kids mine are going to get started out in a gym (flame on) so they can learn basic climbing etiquette. maybe thats not taught at all gyms but at the one i used to work at, it was. kids were just as well behaved as the adults for the most part. no running in the gym no running at the crag. no screaming or being loud and rowdy at the gym, no being loud and rowdy at the crag. i have seen some incredibly poorly behaved kids at the crag but also some incredibly well behaved kids (so i know its possible.) maybe my theory of starting them out in the gym is flawed, but before my kid sets foot on an approach trail, they will know better than to misbehave. maybe it will take longer than I think but im not going to be the parent at the crag that everyone else hates because i can't control my kid.


nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 7:06 AM
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

OK, first off I will agree with you, those kids sounded like a pain in the ass and probably should not have been there as they sounded like they were hazards to both themselves and others. But I will have to partially disagree with you, I think that kids are fine, if they meet ALL of the following criteria:
1. They climb, or are learning to climb, this does not mean running around in a harness! I mean really learning and focused.
2. Their parents understand what real discipline is. None of this new agey “I am disappointed in you…” or even worse “Jesus is disappointed with you.” Because honestly a 5 year old could not care less who is disappointed! They are 5! BUT they do understand a swat on the butt hurts and they don’t want another. (sorry, worked in a daycare in college in an upscale neighborhood, I have been jaded…)
3. They don’t scream, cry, or whine without there being some blood or perturbing bone to accompany it. There is nothing worse than when you are focused to have some whinny ass brat screaming about a splinter or stubbed toe. I know when kids get hurt they freak but GOOD parents teach their kid, or rather train their kid to not freak out over little things. ESPECIALLY Little girls, they are NOT princesses and they are no better than anyone else’s little girl. (Damn Disney has warped their brains!)
4. There are enough adults to have at least one adult per 2 kids at all times. None of this mommy is climbing, daddy is belaying, and little Johnny is running amuck. Bring a sitter, a friend, hell drag out a family member who doesn’t even climb! Just make sure there are adult eyes on your kid all the time! Rocks hurt!
5. They don’t need TOYS to entertain themselves outdoors. Parents need to teach their kids to appreciate the outdoors and teach them to entertain themselves when in the forest/desert/ ect. This does not mean throwing rocks, but maybe a little exploring or god forbid maybe a little firsthand education. They need to teach their kids to appreciate every moment because the way we are heading, there might not be any “outdoors” to take their kids to when they grow up.
OK before I hear all the flaming, especially about little girls and how I should not have kids. I don’t want any! So don’t worry. I helped my wife raise her little 10 year old sister practically as both parents worked crazy schedules and we were the baby sitters. And you know what, when she falls and begins to cry, and I am around… she knows no blood, no broken bones, NO Tears! And if she wants something done, she does it herself if she can. None of this Meggy, Meggy, tie my shoe or help me over this rock BS. And if she is misbehaving, it only takes one look…. Just one, and she stops. And NO I have never spanked her, she’s not my kid (even though it feels like it) but I sure as hell don’t tell her “I am disappointed” I tell her he gameboy is going to disappear or her TV is going to spend some time in my closet, and I mean it! And if that doesn’t work, yeah my wife will put her over the knee, just like I was!

All and all, I think well behaved kids are fine. Every kid should be exposed to the outdoors! Get their fat asses off the couch and away from the TV and Gameboys! But I will agree with ClimberGuy, those kids should not have been there, and those parents were bad parents for bringing them someplace dangerous. You should know what your kids can handle, and they sounded like typical little kids not interested in climbing. OK feel free to rip me a new one now…

EDIT: Holy Hell, I forgot about the swearing!! Sorry folks, if you take your kid out to a Public location, WILLINGLY in contact with large groups of adults, its your problem. I did not decide to pop out a kid, as well as did not decide to hang out with your kid. I decided to head out with other adults to have some adult fun. And if i let out an F-bomb for some reason, i really dont care if you kid is in earshot. If you are a good parent, you will teach you kid that swearing at their age is not OK. And YOU will lead by example, not me. Granted, I do watch my language when around my little sister, but that is because I have made the decision to hang out with a little kid and at that moment I am the example. And when/if something does slip out, she knows, she is 10, not 25! And a 10 year old does not talk like that. But sorry parents, when im out with my friends, year, we swear and we talk dirty (only with the guys) and we will even be respectful of others if they are in earshot. But im not going to watch my mouth every second as while doing adult activities, in a public place, with other adults, things slip out. And after being on best behavor in my cubical all week, im not looking to tip toe around YOUR children. Cool


(This post was edited by nickrp on Aug 4, 2009, 7:25 AM)


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 7:15 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I never see cats at the crags.

When I go bouldering at some of the local haunts I will often bring my Ferrets.

There are way too many people here going off on the troll, I know this isn't the best place for reasoned discussion or well thought out statements, but the hypocrisy is astounding.

How can you deride someone for being a jerk about not empathizing with the joys of bringing your kids into the "wilderness" while at the same time show a complete lack of empathy towards someone else's desire for a peaceful day climbing?

Many people have put forth the obvious connection between dogs and kids, but lets talk about some of the other potential crag distractions. i.e. How about a crag that sits on a property where it is legal to discharge firearms? If someone (a climber even) was at the base of the crag rat-a-tatting there favorite semi auto (responsibly even), how many people would be OK with that?

With that said, at Rumney you should expect four things: Kids, Gumbies, French Canadians, and Black Flies


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 7:18 AM
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nickrp wrote:
OK, first off I will agree with you, those kids sounded like a pain in the ass and probably should not have been there as they sounded like they were hazards to both themselves and others. But I will have to partially disagree with you, I think that kids are fine, if they meet ALL of the following criteria:
1. They climb, or are learning to climb, this does not mean running around in a harness! I mean really learning and focused.
2. Their parents understand what real discipline is. None of this new agey “I am disappointed in you…” or even worse “Jesus is disappointed with you.” Because honestly a 5 year old could not care less who is disappointed! They are 5! BUT they do understand a swat on the butt hurts and they don’t want another. (sorry, worked in a daycare in college in an upscale neighborhood, I have been jaded…)
3. They don’t scream, cry, or whine without there being some blood or perturbing bone to accompany it. There is nothing worse than when you are focused to have some whinny ass brat screaming about a splinter or stubbed toe. I know when kids get hurt they freak but GOOD parents teach their kid, or rather train their kid to not freak out over little things. ESPECIALLY Little girls, they are NOT princesses and they are no better than anyone else’s little girl. (Damn Disney has warped their brains!)
4. There are enough adults to have at least one adult per 2 kids at all times. None of this mommy is climbing, daddy is belaying, and little Johnny is running amuck. Bring a sitter, a friend, hell drag out a family member who doesn’t even climb! Just make sure there are adult eyes on your kid all the time! Rocks hurt!
5. They don’t need TOYS to entertain themselves outdoors. Parents need to teach their kids to appreciate the outdoors and teach them to entertain themselves when in the forest/desert/ ect. This does not mean throwing rocks, but maybe a little exploring or god forbid maybe a little firsthand education. They need to teach their kids to appreciate every moment because the way we are heading, there might not be any “outdoors” to take their kids to when they grow up.
OK before I hear all the flaming, especially about little girls and how I should not have kids. I don’t want any! So don’t worry. I helped my wife raise her little 10 year old sister practically as both parents worked crazy schedules and we were the baby sitters. And you know what, when she falls and begins to cry, and I am around… she knows no blood, no broken bones, NO Tears! And if she wants something done, she does it herself if she can. None of this Meggy, Meggy, tie my shoe or help me over this rock BS. And if she is misbehaving, it only takes one look…. Just one, and she stops. And NO I have never spanked her, she’s not my kid (even though it feels like it) but I sure as hell don’t tell her “I am disappointed” I tell her he gameboy is going to disappear or her TV is going to spend some time in my closet, and I mean it! And if that doesn’t work, yeah my wife will put her over the knee, just like I was!

All and all, I think well behaved kids are fine. Every kid should be exposed to the outdoors! Get their fat asses off the couch and away from the TV and Gameboys! But I will agree with ClimberGuy, those kids should not have been there, and those parents were bad parents for bringing them someplace dangerous. You should know what your kids can handle, and they sounded like typical little kids not interested in climbing. OK feel free to rip me a new one now…

+1

I think this was a successful troll, but this is still the right answer.


lena_chita
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Aug 4, 2009, 7:23 AM
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bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location. .

I actually mostly agree with you there. The parents may not have made the best decision in bringing the kids to that particular location, and it also sounds like they weren't the best parents in terms of keeping track of the kids and keeping them appropriately entertained, safe and out of other people's way.

However, this is NOT an issue of the kids themselves. I can guarantee you that in the same place at the same crag a different group of kids/parents might have been entirely well behaved and corteous to others.

I took issue with OP voicing his blank opposition to kids at the crag just because they were kids, and mildly interfering with his enjoyment of the day, as if kids should be locked away somewhere where no one would see them until they are adults. Some adults they would grow up to be, that way!

bigevilgrape wrote:
Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip.

I agree that people should'nt have kids unless they have thought through the rumifications of that decision and are willing to accept the resonsibilities that come with that decision. Idon't agree with the rest. Children learn by doing. The best way to teach them to behave safely and appropriately in certain situations is to expose them to those situations and teach them how they are expected to behave. Certain situations have to be avoided for safety, but they are the minority. Obviously having 3 toddler-age kid coped up all day at a 10x10ft ledge with a 30ft drop on one side would be unrealistic...

Of course, in the OP it sounded like there wasn't much appropriate teaching going on. However, we only heard one side of the story, and I have a feeling it was a rather biased telling. Still, it is not KIDS' fault that they behave like kids do. It is the adult's fault, and the solution is not to keep the kids away, but to teach them to behave appropriately.

For what it's worth, in 4 years of going on trips, I have seen only ONE group of kids (two families, 3 kids total, ages 5-7 at the time) that behaved really disruptively and annoyed other people at the crag--and IMO it was clearly parents' fault.

I have seen one other family (3 kids, ages 4-8) where the parents were doing everything right, and the kids were still rather loud and disruptive to other people, though less so than the first case, b/c the parents were very vigilant. In this particular case I happen to know that the kids have certain ADHD and Aspergers issues.

Every other family with kids that I have come across while climbing has been no more disruptive to my climbing or to other people at the crag than any other group of same number individuals would have been.

I do believe that my children are pretty well-behaved at the crag, and I certainly work to make it that way, but I would let other people who have climbed with me when I had the kids along say anything about it. My daughter has been coming along with us since she was 2.5 years old. My son was 6.5yo at the time.

I would be the first one to tell any parent thinking of bringing their kids to the crag that it is a whole 'nother game when you bring the kids along, and you have to be prepared for it. You can't come with the mentality that you are going to send and crush while the kids stay out of your way. If you are the person primarily in charge of the kids, you come with the mentality that you are spending time with the kids, and doing a little bit of climbing as your parenting duties allow.

For now, I do my best (as in, my strongest) climbing without my kids. When I have the kids along, I get more kick out of watching my daughter boulder the starts of every route. It is a different kind of best.

bigevilgrape wrote:
The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Again, I agree with you that the parents have not made the best choices. But the solution is not to leave the kids at home, as the OP seems to think.

We don't know the full story. Maybe the parents in question are just starting out and learning what works for their families when they go climbing. Maybe they learned their lesson after this weekend and won't do it the same way again.

But in the end, I doubt they were more annoying than a group of gumbies who strew their gear all over the place where you can trip on it, walk blindly under a climber bouldering to the first bolt, step on other people's ropes, etc. etc.; or the dogs who run headlong into the belayers, nose through other people's lunches and snarl at you.


olderic


Aug 4, 2009, 7:29 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
Rumney is a zoo. If you want solitude, try some multi-pitch or areas that have longer approaches. Then I can write a rant complaining about you being there and ruining my day of climbing.

Bingo Tiff - if you hadn't said it I would have. I usually bring multiple kids AND a large dog when I go to Rumney. Of course several of my kids (yup to the OP - I have more kids then you can count - all the world's dwindling resources are going to be consumed by my family and the dog will will poop on what ever is left) would warm up on the OP's projects but the dog and I would still find them a challenge...


MikeSaint


Aug 4, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Sucker [In reply to]
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Whats up with Rumney? Never been in that neck of the woods. I guess I'm due for a bad day at the crag. Never had a problem with dogs, boomboxes and children.


markc


Aug 4, 2009, 7:32 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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As a parent, I'm torn between a real need to expose my child to the world around him and a desire to not negatively impact those around me in the process. I try to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. That means bringing enough toys, food, and drink, bringing a blanket or other comfort items as necessary, etc. In some environments, it also means having a manageable adult to child ratio. I'm also prepared to make an exit if possible.

My kid has just as much right as anyone to be in public places, but that doesn't mean all locations are equal in terms of child-friendliness. It's important to prepare your children for the environment they're entering into as best as possible, but they aren't robots. They have their own perspective and reactions.

People have said, "Leave them at home until they're responsible." How do you think responsibility is instilled? In my experience, it's not by avoiding new situations. Kids aren't going to learn how to behave at the crag by sitting at home until some magical age of reason. Some crags are more kid-friendly than others. I have no issue with bringing my kid to a crag where there's a reasonable amount of space a the base, and low chance of rock fall. It sounds like these parents made a bad choice. (I've never been to Rumney, but it sounds a little awkward for that size of a group, and with that ratio of kids to adults.) That said, if any party is negatively impacting you, you also have the choice to move. I've done it myself more than once.

By the way, here's a picture of my kid's first time on rope. He insisted I wear my helmet, as well. What few people we ran into (climber or otherwise) were really friendly towards my son, and said it was really cool to see him all geared up. We were in a group with four adults, and no other kids. When he wasn't climbing, his new monster truck was a popular distraction. This was easily one of my better climbing days.




rockandlice


Aug 4, 2009, 7:34 AM
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MikeSaint wrote:
Whats up with Rumney? Never been in that neck of the woods. I guess I'm due for a bad day at the crag. Never had a problem with dogs, boomboxes and children.

You narrowly escaped the kid issue Saturday. There was a temper tantrum throwing screaming baby at Central Bubba that was by and far the worse disruption I've ever come across at a crag. Kid barreled on at the top of his lungs for a solid 40 minutes. At one point a normally calm guy (chris) commented "I wish I was good at punching babies". Shocked


robbovius


Aug 4, 2009, 7:38 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
Here is where your problem begins:

climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness.

Rumney is a zoo. If you want solitude, try some multi-pitch or areas that have longer approaches. Then I can write a rant complaining about you being there and ruining my day of climbing.

no shit, last august when I was at Mt webster, I saw five people...totally ruined my communion with the slabs. fuckers, they were talking and everything.


(This post was edited by robbovius on Aug 4, 2009, 7:39 AM)


shorty


Aug 4, 2009, 7:40 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climberguy2011 wrote:
How about you during your recent climbs? Climbing is an arena of effort. Success and failure both hold lessons for those who are receptive.

Thanks for asking. My most recent climb involved taking a new climber up his first multi-pitch climb -- a four-pitch 5.8 I put up a few years ago. He was totally jazzed being 350' off the deck. During the day I also mentored two climbers who stumbled on the area last year, but didn't have any route beta.

Earlier in the year I hosted a climbing day for the Access Fund staff. It was a combination of assessing my development to date and letting them have a "private" day on a large unpublished crag. The AF staff's climbing experience spanned a wide range -- it was a blast encouraging all through their individual cruxes and seeing their successes.

And when I'm not doing FA's, I often take climbers of moderate abilities on tours of our new routes, coaching them through the tougher sections should they desire any beta.


Partner camhead


Aug 4, 2009, 7:41 AM
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I'm not going to say much about the original topic. I've seen annoying kids at the crag, I've seen bad parents at the crag. I've also climbed with people who bring their kids to the crag (Lena is one of them), with no calamitous effects.


However, I don't want to talk about that. I want to profile/stereotype the douche nozzle who originally posted this.

Given that his username has "2011" in it (probably a graduation date), and that he sprays freshman-level pseudo intellect (overpopulation! I'll NEVER have kids! durrrrr), that he does not have a clear idea of basic genetics or reproduction ("I haven't allowed my chromosomes to join with an X chromosome," wft?), that he sprays on about taking a WFR class (Oh NOEZ! I skinned my knee! Good God get me a WFR!), here's my profile:

You're going to be a sophomore, probably started majoring in biology, switched your major to something like outdoor rec, you probably surround yourself with lesser climbers while boldly hangdogging the bolted 11a's, similarly, you sate your ego by aspiring to some sort of "guiding" job, and You probably have around a B-/C+ GPA. And whether I am right or not, you are going to tell me that you are really smart, and that you climb way better than your profile says.

that was fun.


subantz


Aug 4, 2009, 7:43 AM
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Rahhr britch rahr, Thats funny dingus. Yes I am a uneducated mudder truckjer that cant contriol my frucken mouth at times but this is all in fun. Arswhole. Blush


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 7:48 AM
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In reply to:
You're going to be a sophomore, probably started majoring in biology, switched your major to something like outdoor rec, you probably surround yourself with lesser climbers while boldly hangdogging the bolted 11a's, similarly, you sate your ego by aspiring to some sort of "guiding" job, and You probably have around a B-/C+ GPA. And whether I am right or not, you are going to tell me that you are really smart, and that you climb way better than your profile says.

This is the most in depth stereotyping I've ever seen. Context clues will get you far.


nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 7:57 AM
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camhead wrote:
I'm not going to say much about the original topic. I've seen annoying kids at the crag, I've seen bad parents at the crag. I've also climbed with people who bring their kids to the crag (Lena is one of them), with no calamitous effects.


However, I don't want to talk about that. I want to profile/stereotype the douche nozzle who originally posted this.

Given that his username has "2011" in it (probably a graduation date), and that he sprays freshman-level pseudo intellect (overpopulation! I'll NEVER have kids! durrrrr), that he does not have a clear idea of basic genetics or reproduction ("I haven't allowed my chromosomes to join with an X chromosome," wft?), that he sprays on about taking a WFR class (Oh NOEZ! I skinned my knee! Good God get me a WFR!), here's my profile:

You're going to be a sophomore, probably started majoring in biology, switched your major to something like outdoor rec, you probably surround yourself with lesser climbers while boldly hangdogging the bolted 11a's, similarly, you sate your ego by aspiring to some sort of "guiding" job, and You probably have around a B-/C+ GPA. And whether I am right or not, you are going to tell me that you are really smart, and that you climb way better than your profile says.

that was fun.

I will admit, that is pretty entertaining. But hey he may be an adult that just does not want kids, there are some of us out there.


subantz


Aug 4, 2009, 7:58 AM
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Hey p-nas go back to picking your nose. I love Georgia. Your just mad cause we have bulletproof sandstone and granite. All within 2 hours away. OK finished with you now. Go change your diaper


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 8:00 AM
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markc wrote:
People have said, "Leave them at home until they're responsible." How do you think responsibility is instilled?

Through good parenting.

DMT


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 8:02 AM
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Umm... that was so incredibly... *COOL*!

Great post. Really great. My kids have all been up a 60' pitch grade 5.8 even my 4 year old and she actually rocked the crag like a vetted vet. Of course 3 months at a gym with 40' walls helped and lots of patience. It took her 2 months to break the bouldering line but after that she never looked back and she's got a freakishly good rap form that blows my mind.

I think of all my kids my 4 year old will be the one dragging me to yose when I'm 40+ and making me belay her up the stuff I dream of. Sure I'll be the sloppy 2nd, the pig, the sherpa but I cannot wait.

Your point I liked most about, "How do you think responsibility is instilled is brilliant." all of my kids are guaranteed at least 2 full pitches at grade 5.7 if I can find it or 5.8 if I cannot and hell or high water if they want it they get it. My son ties in my two girls, he's the safety guy on the ground and he does a great job. He has caught me on a few minor things and I've been very impressed. A hot fire burns in his eyes and I can tell he can feel a lead just waiting to bust out.

I think your photo is the 1000 words that shows how it can be done right.

I've had people stop, talk to my kids. This one guy checked each of their harnesses and talked climbing with each of them. This guy was thoughtful and intelligent for a 20 something. He gave each of them a biner of their own and he was careful to give them lockers that were all the same. Each of them carries it on their harness no matter where they are.

That dude did it with style and really proxied my kids into climbing with open arms. It was a cool day. If I was a softie like Dingus I would have cried. Tongue

It was cool. When my kids are out they know that most importantly we "Leave no trace." we "Leave it as we found it." and we have fun.

Loved your comments though. They were great.Cool The photo was too cool. Great stuff!


angeleyes


Aug 4, 2009, 8:08 AM
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ACJ wrote:
I think your going a little over the top, there are bound to be some responsible adults out there.

Anyway, this is what I experienced today...

A sketchy summer camp full of crappy staff leading trips to the local crag. Then I looked on in horror as the staff teach the kids how to carve their names into the rock and knock over widow maker trees while they wait for their turn to "race" up the 4th class terrain that they put on top rope.

Now somebody needs to revoke their commercial permit to climb in the national forests...

report them? I'd think at the least the name carving would cause them to at least warn the people.


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 8:27 AM
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Crying is good for me.

DMT


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 8:30 AM
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bobbj22 wrote:
You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up.

Nope, never did.

Maybe you're forcing your opinions on child rearing on other people.


kriso9tails


Aug 4, 2009, 8:33 AM
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dingus wrote:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT

You implying there's something wrong with dog-people?



nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 8:36 AM
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rockreaver wrote:
Umm... that was so incredibly... *COOL*!

Great post. Really great. My kids have all been up a 60' pitch grade 5.8 even my 4 year old and she actually rocked the crag like a vetted vet. Of course 3 months at a gym with 40' walls helped and lots of patience. It took her 2 months to break the bouldering line but after that she never looked back and she's got a freakishly good rap form that blows my mind.

I think of all my kids my 4 year old will be the one dragging me to yose when I'm 40+ and making me belay her up the stuff I dream of. Sure I'll be the sloppy 2nd, the pig, the sherpa but I cannot wait.

Your point I liked most about, "How do you think responsibility is instilled is brilliant." all of my kids are guaranteed at least 2 full pitches at grade 5.7 if I can find it or 5.8 if I cannot and hell or high water if they want it they get it. My son ties in my two girls, he's the safety guy on the ground and he does a great job. He has caught me on a few minor things and I've been very impressed. A hot fire burns in his eyes and I can tell he can feel a lead just waiting to bust out.

I think your photo is the 1000 words that shows how it can be done right.

I've had people stop, talk to my kids. This one guy checked each of their harnesses and talked climbing with each of them. This guy was thoughtful and intelligent for a 20 something. He gave each of them a biner of their own and he was careful to give them lockers that were all the same. Each of them carries it on their harness no matter where they are.

That dude did it with style and really proxied my kids into climbing with open arms. It was a cool day. If I was a softie like Dingus I would have cried. Tongue

It was cool. When my kids are out they know that most importantly we "Leave no trace." we "Leave it as we found it." and we have fun.

Loved your comments though. They were great.Cool The photo was too cool. Great stuff!

See, now it sounds like you have trained/raised your kids properly. Unlike the origional posters experience, encountering your family at the rocks seems like it would be inspiring rather than annoying. It sounds like your kids are into it, well behaved and respectful of their surroundings and not screaming and running around like chickens with their heads cut off.


atg200


Aug 4, 2009, 8:45 AM
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robbovius wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.

Really? So people who have gone through a series of worsening miscarriages and ultimately found out kids are not going to happen are failures? Nice.


reno


Aug 4, 2009, 9:03 AM
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robbovius wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.

Not buying it, dude.

Not everyone is able to have children, for various reasons... physical ailments, for example. Others elect to find fulfillment of life by other means. Doesn't mean they're living in a state of arrested adolescence or that they've failed as humans.


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 9:13 AM
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nickrp wrote:
See, now it sounds like you have trained/raised your kids properly. Unlike the origional posters experience, encountering your family at the rocks seems like it would be inspiring rather than annoying. It sounds like your kids are into it, well behaved and respectful of their surroundings and not screaming and running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

You know each of my kids has had to be inspired to do well in life. Sometimes a swat gives them the courage to do the right thing next time. Sometimes with my 8 year old son I tell him, "I won't be there and I cannot judge the choices you make. I have to trust you but here's what you can expect from {this} so choose well." Sometimes I stand guard and am the wall they use at their backs. I don't push, I don't bend. I'm just there. Other times I have to hoot and holler like a cheerleader to get them to try the roof and mantel it over the top.

Parenting becomes offensive when your kids motivate someone to make a post like the OP made. I think he could have been more lenient but the grain of truth is there in his words. Had he chosen a different stance. Had he worded his anger more thoughtfully there would have been a lot of people piling on and saying, "Yeah that's hard. I've seen 5 year old's doing it and I've seen 23 year old's just as bad." Really we've all been there. I cannot stand screaming or loud kids in restaurants, movie theaters and such. I work too hard for my weeknights, weekends and evenings to give up a precious outing for someone else to crash it with a "selfish fest". I get really angry at people who say, "If you don't like it too bad I'm going to {climb} or whatever."

Yeah it's a lot of work. Yes I waited forever to be able to take them into public. Yes I said no to a lot of things. My wife and I had to learn to have our own lives and we had to learn that time together had a price. We got babysitters or we picked activities appropriate for where our family was. I cannot tell you the nights I've stood in the back and been the jungle gym my kids climbed on in sheer boredom and I was ready to exit the moment they made even the slightest sound. I've missed 1/2 or more of movies, plays, meals. I don't regret any of it. Parenting isn't easy. It's a choice and you make it.

Just like climbing in many ways. We've all been stuck on a climb above our ability. Stacking fingers and they pull (with less skin than before), cranking on a flake and your fit slips... well your skin on your shin will grow back right? Raising kids is just as hard. Takes work.

I don't begrudge this guys right to climb in a reasonable setting. I don't at all because I know how much effort I put into my kids behavior and I get angry when other parents don't work just as hard. I just think that what you say isn't nearly as important as *how* you say it. This guy did it all wrong. So he's either going to be part of "Future homewreckers of America" and he'll bail on each kid he fathers or he'll stand fast, hold the brake no matter what and anchor his family for years to come. That's his choice and maybe he has some things to think about now.

I just cannot help but wonder if he was the same kid he expected those kids to be or if he's just some selfish jerk that orders a meal for each side of his face. I have no idea and I don't want one. If I saw him at the crag I'd walk. He would certainly climb alone in my book. That's fine with him but a life alone can be lonely and he needs to figure out some lessons.

That's why message boards are brilliant places to learn about life. I'm sure he made that post and expected everyone to praise him for sharing their view exactly. Had he worded it differently they just might have. So hopefully he'll reconsider and take more away from this than insults.

It's his life though. If he wants to be angry for most of it then he's the loser. I'm okay with that. Sure I work my butt off. Sure I swat my kids. Sure I make them behave. It's a ton of work and now it's really paying off.

I have 3 sherpa's coming up in the ranks. Laugh


kriso9tails


Aug 4, 2009, 9:18 AM
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reno wrote:
robbovius wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.

Not buying it, dude.

Not everyone is able to have children, for various reasons... physical ailments, for example. Others elect to find fulfillment of life by other means. Doesn't mean they're living in a state of arrested adolescence or that they've failed as humans.

I thought it was sarcasm.


reno


Aug 4, 2009, 9:31 AM
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kriso9tails wrote:
reno wrote:
robbovius wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.

Not buying it, dude.

Not everyone is able to have children, for various reasons... physical ailments, for example. Others elect to find fulfillment of life by other means. Doesn't mean they're living in a state of arrested adolescence or that they've failed as humans.

I thought it was sarcasm.

If it was, then I apologize if I offended, but I stand by my statement.


Partner camhead


Aug 4, 2009, 9:43 AM
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reno wrote:
kriso9tails wrote:
reno wrote:
robbovius wrote:
climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.

Not buying it, dude.

Not everyone is able to have children, for various reasons... physical ailments, for example. Others elect to find fulfillment of life by other means. Doesn't mean they're living in a state of arrested adolescence or that they've failed as humans.

I thought it was sarcasm.

If it was, then I apologize if I offended, but I stand by my statement.

Don't think it is sarcasm. Rob has gone off on the whole "if you don't have kids you're a selfish terrible person" thing more than once.


nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 9:50 AM
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rockreaver wrote:
I don't begrudge this guys right to climb in a reasonable setting. I don't at all because I know how much effort I put into my kids behavior and I get angry when other parents don't work just as hard. I just think that what you say isn't nearly as important as *how* you say it. This guy did it all wrong. So he's either going to be part of "Future homewreckers of America" and he'll bail on each kid he fathers or he'll stand fast, hold the brake no matter what and anchor his family for years to come. That's his choice and maybe he has some things to think about now.

I just cannot help but wonder if he was the same kid he expected those kids to be or if he's just some selfish jerk that orders a meal for each side of his face. I have no idea and I don't want one. If I saw him at the crag I'd walk. He would certainly climb alone in my book. That's fine with him but a life alone can be lonely and he needs to figure out some lessons.

That's why message boards are brilliant places to learn about life. I'm sure he made that post and expected everyone to praise him for sharing their view exactly. Had he worded it differently they just might have. So hopefully he'll reconsider and take more away from this than insults.

It's his life though. If he wants to be angry for most of it then he's the loser. I'm okay with that. Sure I work my butt off. Sure I swat my kids. Sure I make them behave. It's a ton of work and now it's really paying off.

I have 3 sherpa's coming up in the ranks. Laugh

Are you refering to me, or the origional poster? If you were referring to me, first I do not expect anyone to agree with me, because the whole no desire to have children is not the most popular among other adults and second, yeah I will admit, I was a punk little kid…at home. But my parents one, knew what I could handle, they knew I was loud and well rambunctious. As such they tried to avoid “adult environments” when they could if they knew it would be too much for me. BUT if we were in an “Adult setting” I knew when to behave, because I did get those “swats of encouragement” and I am thankful for em…. Well now I am at least. And as for being a future homewrecker of America…umm no?? If I for some reason accidentally got my wife pregnant (knocking on wood as I type) I would be there through thick and thin. Granted it is defiantly not the path my wife or I want to go down in our lives we do understand that, accidents happen. And I feel that we would do just fine raising a child, we would love and care for him/her and do our best to mold them into a responsible, intelligent and respectful person.

Just curious who you were directing your comments to?


durangoclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 9:55 AM
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The FU is hardly enough. What a jackass. My kids started when they were two (yes two). They have grown into incredible kids, climbers, and friends to even some adults. They are very well behaved. Your elitist attitude sucks. Hope you climb here in Durango someday so my little 12 y/o bad ass can climb circles around your punk ass.


kriso9tails


Aug 4, 2009, 9:57 AM
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camhead wrote:
Don't think it is sarcasm. Rob has gone off on the whole "if you don't have kids you're a selfish terrible person" thing more than once.

Oh. Well, in that case it might be mental illness.


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 10:03 AM
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Oh gosh not you at all. No! Oops. Not you.

I think my comments (not to you at all) were just kind of "in the future" like what will this guy turn out to be like? I think he's going buy climberguy2011 or some such. I was just wondering what type of person he really is.

He just came off here as a really emo, angry person. When he does have kids (I actually hope he does. I hope he does by choice not accident.) he's going to learn how much work it takes to harness all that energy that is a child. Children are not awful but they sure do get a bad rap from people who don't raise theirs with love, compassion, etc...

When people go somewhere (like a crag) and let their kids go insane when other people are around it really makes them look bad or it should. Ironically people go off about the kids. In this case the parents were really the issue. They really were. But gosh even that's subjective. I didn't witness any of it. These kids may not have been that bad at all I have no idea. This guy feels they were though so I might be making a bigger mistake to take his word (I probably am.) for truth.

Anyway, someday this guy might get to try his hand at it. It's not the kids fault. They are really just wanting someone to notice them and take the time to get on their level. When you pay attention to kids the silence tells the tale. When you don't the chaos is hard to ignore unless... Well so anyway.

I just hope this guy does it better when/if it becomes his turn. Parenting is hard. Really hard. But it's fun too. I'm not one of those that thinks it makes you a better person and your a lesser person for not having kids. I don't buy into that. If you need "things" in your life to "make" you a better person then you've got big problems. Life's experiences should by nature make you better and whether you raise kids or don't really doesn't matter at all.

Wow I have rambled. I guess I'm responding to a few thoughts expressed.

To you though... no. Your words to me were kind and I appreciate them a lot. My reply was to you but not about you in the least. I can tell your living your life with a full rack and you have a pretty good idea about how to use it and when. That came right through. So I appreciated your comments a lot. Mine were to you but about the OP.

Hopefully that's more clear now. I meander a lot (I think I write a lot like I climb) and wander around when I'm writing.CrazyLaugh


nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 10:27 AM
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rockreaver wrote:
Oh gosh not you at all. No! Oops. Not you.

I think my comments (not to you at all) were just kind of "in the future" like what will this guy turn out to be like? I think he's going buy climberguy2011 or some such. I was just wondering what type of person he really is.

He just came off here as a really emo, angry person. When he does have kids (I actually hope he does. I hope he does by choice not accident.) he's going to learn how much work it takes to harness all that energy that is a child. Children are not awful but they sure do get a bad rap from people who don't raise theirs with love, compassion, etc...

When people go somewhere (like a crag) and let their kids go insane when other people are around it really makes them look bad or it should. Ironically people go off about the kids. In this case the parents were really the issue. They really were. But gosh even that's subjective. I didn't witness any of it. These kids may not have been that bad at all I have no idea. This guy feels they were though so I might be making a bigger mistake to take his word (I probably am.) for truth.

Anyway, someday this guy might get to try his hand at it. It's not the kids fault. They are really just wanting someone to notice them and take the time to get on their level. When you pay attention to kids the silence tells the tale. When you don't the chaos is hard to ignore unless... Well so anyway.

I just hope this guy does it better when/if it becomes his turn. Parenting is hard. Really hard. But it's fun too. I'm not one of those that thinks it makes you a better person and your a lesser person for not having kids. I don't buy into that. If you need "things" in your life to "make" you a better person then you've got big problems. Life's experiences should by nature make you better and whether you raise kids or don't really doesn't matter at all.

Wow I have rambled. I guess I'm responding to a few thoughts expressed.

To you though... no. Your words to me were kind and I appreciate them a lot. My reply was to you but not about you in the least. I can tell your living your life with a full rack and you have a pretty good idea about how to use it and when. That came right through. So I appreciated your comments a lot. Mine were to you but about the OP.

Hopefully that's more clear now. I meander a lot (I think I write a lot like I climb) and wander around when I'm writing.CrazyLaugh

Hey no problem. I do fully agree with you that raising kids is A LOT of work. I don’t know if you saw my previous post, but I worked in a daycare through college and helped raise my wife’s little sister (from the age of 1) and I know firsthand how much work goes into shaping a child into a great little person. And I will admit, it’s purely selfish reasons why my wife and I have chosen not to have kids, we both feel like we already have one, and we love the little monster, but we still don’t want our own.

I also agree that he should not be mad at the kids for how they act, it is the parents job to reign them in at that age. But as far as the parent talking to him about the swearing, well honestly one, probably heard worse on the local prime time TV, and two I would be more concerned as to my kids action then for their precious ears. But once again, both those issues are the parents fault not the kids.

An I am glad you have your kids out there, it sounds like you brought them up right and I think it’s great that there are parents that one will spend time with their kids like my dad did, and that there are still some kids out there that know what discipline is.


lena_chita
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Aug 4, 2009, 10:35 AM
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camhead wrote:
I'm not going to say much about the original topic. I've seen annoying kids at the crag, I've seen bad parents at the crag. I've also climbed with people who bring their kids to the crag (Lena is one of them), with no calamitous effects..

NO calamitous effects -- you are a diplomat! I thought that weekend was actually the worst that they've been in a long time. I was exhausted by the end of it. And you hadthe car ride to enjoy, as well as the day at the crag... Believe it or not, we made exactly two bathroom stops on the 8-hour drive with the kids... a normal situation. And how many did we have last weekend between C-bus and RRG? I certainly lost count of that. I think it was the last camping trip with the kids this year for me. Since the school is starting in couple weeks, I would probably confine the kid climbing weekends to the local day trips.



camhead wrote:
Given that his username has "2011" in it (probably a graduation date), and that he sprays freshman-level pseudo intellect (overpopulation! I'll NEVER have kids! durrrrr), that he does not have a clear idea of basic genetics or reproduction ("I haven't allowed my chromosomes to join with an X chromosome," wft?), that he sprays on about taking a WFR class (Oh NOEZ! I skinned my knee! Good God get me a WFR!), here's my profile:

You're going to be a sophomore, probably started majoring in biology, switched your major to something like outdoor rec, you probably surround yourself with lesser climbers while boldly hangdogging the bolted 11a's, similarly, you sate your ego by aspiring to some sort of "guiding" job, and You probably have around a B-/C+ GPA. And whether I am right or not, you are going to tell me that you are really smart, and that you climb way better than your profile says.

that was fun.

Good profiling!


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 10:39 AM
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Parenting rescued me from a life of traveling at will, having plenty of money whenever I wanted something and generally getting-life-on however I chose. Boy I'm so glad they pulled me out of a life like that. Sounds so awful. Crazy

There's some truth to that... truly. But in return I have a ton of fun packed into 3 human beings sometimes I call them "human bings" bing-bing-bing (yeah lame). I have 3 sherpas. Think of all the boyfriend stories I'll get to hear. Think of the heavy metal CDs I can steal from my son. It's going to be great.

I'll retire poor and raise rich kids to take care of me. Isn't that the real American Dream? Oh damn... wait that's uh going straight up El Caps Nose. (Gosh that sounds awfully strange.)

No seriously! Thanks for the compliments. Good on you for standing in the gap when the 1 year old needed it most. That's awesome.

As far as swearing and whatever. OMG! My kids probably know more swear words than I do. I see all the OMXGYCNFDW stuff here and I have to ask them what it means. Cool

Anyway, some people here got really angry, some people didn't. I cannot help but think we all learned something though. This is one of those posts that is a major groan but maybe a bit of wisdom can be salvaged here and there...Angelic


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 10:50 AM
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I totally agree. As a single mom of a 3 1/2 year old, I would not dream of taking my child on a climbing trip. To the gym? Yes. On a camping trip? Yes. Hiking? Yup.
I would not take her on a climbing trip (yet) because its not the place for a toddler, for numerous reasons:
1. I can't keep an eye on her and concentrate on climbing/belaying...both of those things would need my undivided attention.
2. What if something happens to me or my partner and one of us is injured?
3. Snakes, poison ivy, crag dogs, edges of cliffs...etc
4. What if she starts harassing other climbers who are trying to belay or climb?
Honestly, the whole thing sounds like a mess to me. But when she is older and I do take her, you damn well better believe she will not be running around, screaming and acting all crazy like.


kriso9tails


Aug 4, 2009, 11:10 AM
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Just out of curiosity, do you have an age in mind?


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 11:19 AM
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Re: [kriso9tails] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I don't have an age in mind. I'm thinking six or seven...but I'll be watching her for the maturity that would be necessary for a climbing trip. Every child is different...some are ready sooner, some later. I will probably be asking my doctor also...I'm thinking in terms of, if the worst happens (she gets bitten by a copperhead and there is a 30 minute hike out...) will she be able to tolerate it like an adult. Could she get hurt/bitten by a snake, etc, playing outside? Well, yes, but its far more unlikely and the hospital is a couple minutes ride in the car down the road. To me, its using common sense as a parent. That said, I don't judge...other people are in different situations and their children are different. To me, parenting comes first, because it was a decision of responsibility that I made. Climbing has to come second...that doesn't mean I don't want to expose my daughter to climbing...which is why I take her to the gym. I might take her to a place like the Columns in Eugene Oregon (drive up crag, zero approach, easy access to hospital), but other than that, no. My own thoughts as a parent.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up.

Nope, never did.

Maybe you're forcing your opinions on child rearing on other people.

Maybe your a selfish prick for choosing to pursue the all the freedoms you enjoyed when you didn't have children. That's so unfair to your kids. You have to give things up for them; they're yours afterall. Your priorities are fucked up and you need to figure them out. The kids come first, not you.


budman


Aug 4, 2009, 11:33 AM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Wish my Mom had taken me climbing when I was 3 1/2. That's why I took my kids when they were very young. If you take you children climbing, then climb with them. If you are there to climb then leave them home, unless there is adult supervision. For those not very tolerant of children, act like an adult and pick somewhere else to climb. Give the kids their day, there will be another day for your project. As to the language thing, if you can't see why it's wrong and can't respect that then you probably have no respect for your self as well. Oh yeh, taking your kids outside to climb is one of the best things for you and them.


majid_sabet


Aug 4, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Re: [budman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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several weeks ago while hiking on a popular trail, I ran in to a completely naked 3-4 years old boy playing behind the rock with no parents in sight.

So I yell to nearest person in the trial if they know who this kid was belonging to and she said oh yaa, his parents are over there. Then i said; call them up and let come and get this kid or or I will be taking him down.

A minute later,some ignorant lady comes and says, yes that is my boy and what seems to be the problem ?

i reply nothing seems to be a problem but kids do disappear which make s a CF of hell for others to find your kid then she goes come on boy and kids run toward the trail. then she tells her husband; hey jeff, can you watch the boy while boy is running toward class 2 river.

WTF

So I ran in to guy and told him that river kills people in 1 minute so you may want to stop your kid from getting near it and the guy was so fucking relax like he did not give a sh*t if his kid died.

well, if that is you up there then do not bring your kid cause you will piss off people.


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Re: [budman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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YOU wish YOUR mom had taken you. I'm not saying your kids don't like it or don't want to go...but taking them because that was your wish is the wrong motive. I wish my mom had taken me also...and camping and hiking and biking and all of that other stuff I love. But, for example, my daughter is afraid of heights (LMAO every climbing parents worst nightmare, eh?) so I go with it. She loves going biking with me though, so I take her. I agree with the rest of your post though.


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bobbj22 wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up.

Nope, never did.

Maybe you're forcing your opinions on child rearing on other people.

Maybe your a selfish prick for choosing to pursue the all the freedoms you enjoyed when you didn't have children. That's so unfair to your kids. You have to give things up for them; they're yours afterall. Your priorities are fucked up and you need to figure them out. The kids come first, not you.

There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


karmiclimber


Aug 4, 2009, 12:13 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I disagree with you. If you can't tell the difference between daycare because you have to work and the inherent dangers of climbing (that your kids did not ask for) AND there ARE things you have to give up as a parent, then you probably do not have the common sense to be a parent, let alone a climber. I'm not saying to teach them to stay at home and learn to knit and watch TV all day, but there is a difference between raising them in a bubble and exposing them to dangerous situations that they aren't able to handle. This is why kids don't drive. Or hang out in bars...Climbing is a serious, adult situation for adults. Thats not to say you can't teach them to climb...just be smart about it. And less selfish?


(This post was edited by karmiclimber on Aug 4, 2009, 12:14 PM)


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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karmiclimber wrote:
I disagree with you. If you can't tell the difference between daycare because you have to work and the inherent dangers of climbing (that your kids did not ask for) AND there ARE things you have to give up as a parent, then you probably do not have the common sense to be a parent, let alone a climber. I'm not saying to teach them to stay at home and learn to knit and watch TV all day, but there is a difference between raising them in a bubble and exposing them to dangerous situations that they aren't able to handle. This is why kids don't drive. Or hang out in bars...Climbing is a serious, adult situation for adults. Thats not to say you can't teach them to climb...just be smart about it. And less selfish?

What is selfish about what I've said?

Oh yeah, and this is still my life too.


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 12:20 PM
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Re: [durangoclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
The FU is hardly enough. What a jackass. My kids started when they were two (yes two). They have grown into incredible kids, climbers, and friends to even some adults. They are very well behaved. Your elitist attitude sucks. Hope you climb here in Durango someday so my little 12 y/o bad ass can climb circles around your punk ass.

These are getting to be too much. The OP's comments were a little harshly stated/trollish and I'm sure your elitist attitudes about your kids climbing ability is accurate, but as many others have said there is a big difference between kids at a crag actually climbing and unsupervised toddlers at a crag misbehaving.

Why is it that someones annoyance with a particular set of children is seen as an attack on all of your babies?

Why do so many of you think that countering with the climbing abilities of your 8-13 year olds has any relevance to the OP's topic?


Basta916


Aug 4, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
several weeks ago while hiking on a popular trail, I ran in to a completely naked 3-4 years old boy playing behind the rock with no parents in sight.

So I yell to nearest person in the trial if they know who this kid was belonging to and she said oh yaa, his parents are over there. Then i said; call them up and let come and get this kid or or I will be taking him down.

A minute later,some ignorant lady comes and says, yes that is my boy and what seems to be the problem ?

i reply nothing seems to be a problem but kids do disappear which make s a CF of hell for others to find your kid then she goes come on boy and kids run toward the trail. then she tells her husband; hey jeff, can you watch the boy while boy is running toward class 2 river.

WTF

So I ran in to guy and told him that river kills people in 1 minute so you may want to stop your kid from getting near it and the guy was so fucking relax like he did not give a sh*t if his kid died.

well, if that is you up there then do not bring your kid cause you will piss off people.

holly crap Majid.. this must be your first post that makes sense...

and to all parents out there that think " my kid is an angel!!!Angelic" If thats your mindset, you are delusional.Wake up. Remember the way you were.
kids are only good if they first learned to listen and behave.
Kids are welcome if they behave, and it's parents/guardians job to make sure of that. Not everyone has to enjoy your screaming brat...Do your job. If you have them , take care of them. Same goes for dogs.


budman


Aug 4, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [karmiclimber] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I was lucky, my chidlren like climbing. After being a parent for 30 years they still climb with their dad. Not as often as I would like but we still hang at the crag when possible. The coolest thing was that they became part of the community and still are, in their own way. As parents it's important to introduce our children to different things in order for them to be more well rounded individuals. Like I said, I was lucky they liked climbing. The smiles on our faces when we climb together tell it all. Hope your daughter ends up a climber so she and you can share the time and the passion. One generation giving to the next.


wjca


Aug 4, 2009, 12:58 PM
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Re: [subantz] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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subantz wrote:
Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fireAngelic

Congratulations. You may be a bigger douche than the OP.


IsayAutumn


Aug 4, 2009, 1:02 PM
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Re: [wjca] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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wjca wrote:
subantz wrote:
Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fireAngelic

Congratulations. You may be a bigger douche than the OP.



Kids suck.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 1:06 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


Job is an essential you fucktard. If you can't support your family enough to keep them happy then you are failing miserably. When you're a parent, you must think about your kids first (i.e. if I fell on an approach 10 years ago and broke my ankle it would hurt. If I fell now it would hurt, I wouldn't be able to work, and I wouldn't be able to play with my kids or do work around the house. As a post earlier noted, you see things differently. This is perfect example.

As for your model kids, that's great I hope they pass on the torch by looking out for number 1 first just like ol pops.


In reply to:
I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.

I could care less what your kids climb. I don't update my climbing logs because I could give a shit less what waterheads like you think. If your kids are as impressive as you think they could beat me in a mile run. You are acting like those annoying people who always want to whip out their wallets and shove pictures of their kids in my face. Those people crack me up.


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 1:08 PM
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Re: [kriso9tails] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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kriso9tails wrote:
dingus wrote:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT

You implying there's something wrong with dog-people?

[img]http://www.billpullman.org/film/spaceballs/S3.jpg[/img]

Space Balls. I want to go to Ridiculous Speed!

DMT


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 1:12 PM
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Re: [rockreaver] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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rockreaver wrote:
Parenting rescued me from a life of traveling at will, having plenty of money whenever I wanted something and generally getting-life-on however I chose. Boy I'm so glad they pulled me out of a life like that. Sounds so awful. Crazy

There's some truth to that... truly. But in return I have a ton of fun packed into 3 human beings sometimes I call them "human bings"

At a basic level our pleasure and fun are irrelevant of course. Our DNA wants to reproduce and we either heed the call or we do not.

Everyhthing else is just detail. The breeders ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS win.

Always.

Non breeders are irrelevant, and the end of the cycle. Dirt to dirt.

DMT


rockreaver


Aug 4, 2009, 1:25 PM
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Re: [dingus] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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I didn't want kids at all. It was kind of weird. I felt like a freak of nature because I didn't. I never told my wife but she knew. I had different ambitions and I wanted to pursue them. Then there was a terrific accident - The End - and I kind of fell apart as a person. She still wanted kids and I didn't.

I just went along with it though as I thought maybe I'd grow into it or something. (I was too farking young to know better.) We had them. Because of them I realized I had a lot of serious issues. In time I've worked through most of them.

Now I really enjoy having them. They mean the world to me. I parent just like my parents did and life continues. My kids are "bomber" kids. I just think they are so great.

But I didn't want them at first. However I knew when I agreed to "sire" them that I was there good and bad and they'd have a father from then on.

I've tried to do a good job of that but it's certainly a learning process. I'd say that I do a good job though. I get compliments everywhere we take them about how well they behave. They really do too. When I lean on them and give them the "Quiet or Die" order they tidy right up. I don't do a lot of that though and in our home I think mayhem is a lot of fun. I really let them cut loose. They better not break anything (usually I do that playing dodge ball with them).

I'll build them all sorts of crazy stuff and we have fun.

I believe that desire to reproduce wasn't there for me. However... I have an extremely strong desire to "practice" and well...Blush

So yeah. Life goes on. The world turns. Snow melts.

I like the song by Smashmouth "All Star" it's how I try to live. Cheryl Crow's "Winding Road" is a good tune too but my favorite is Twisted Sister, "We're Not Gonna Take It".

So I wouldn't say I'm a mindless conformist. In fact I'm a bit of an anarchist. I question authority a lot.

What the hell was I saying?

Oh yeah. I didn't want them either but they've grown on me. They keep me poor. I could have a full trad rack with all the fixin's but instead I've got a set of stoppers, well adjusted kids and a happy life. Wink

Dirt to Dirt - Somehow there's got to be some Monty Python in there somewhere...


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 1:47 PM
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Re: [bobbj22] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bobbj22 wrote:
In reply to:
There you go again, putting your opinions of things onto other people.

So I should stay home and take care of my kids. And not have a job? What shall I feed them with? What shall I do when I'm so stressed out by doing nothing but taking care of them that I want to kill them? Do I go to work? Well, how often? Oh please tell me oh fountain of wisdom.

I have four kids, based on your posts, I'd say they're all more thoughtful, intelligent, and well behaved than you.


Job is an essential you fucktard. If you can't support your family enough to keep them happy then you are failing miserably. When you're a parent, you must think about your kids first (i.e. if I fell on an approach 10 years ago and broke my ankle it would hurt. If I fell now it would hurt, I wouldn't be able to work, and I wouldn't be able to play with my kids or do work around the house. As a post earlier noted, you see things differently. This is perfect example.

As for your model kids, that's great I hope they pass on the torch by looking out for number 1 first just like ol pops.


In reply to:
I forgot to add that 3/4 of my kids climb better than you too.

I could care less what your kids climb. I don't update my climbing logs because I could give a shit less what waterheads like you think. If your kids are as impressive as you think they could beat me in a mile run. You are acting like those annoying people who always want to whip out their wallets and shove pictures of their kids in my face. Those people crack me up.

You are rather simple minded.


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 2:03 PM
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I didn't want kids and said so, all through my 20s. I partied instead. Like it was 1999, ddeja vu all over again.

30ish rolled around and MY bio clock kicked in...

I said to my girl of 9-years: what say we get married and have a couple of kids?

Presto quicko.... (I climbed Lucky Streaks in Tuolumne Meadows on the day my kid was born, coming up on 18 years ago, in just two weeks now)

I still party like its 1999 though. Wear the same clothes too. Even the underwear.

DMT


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 2:03 PM
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YOU are rather empty-minded.


mnottingham


Aug 4, 2009, 2:08 PM
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bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Amen brother. The guy who posted seemed more concerned about the safety of the kids then the three soccer moms who were neglecting them. I'm sick of parents assuming higher moral ground because......they're parents(?) So some critter crawled out your vag! congratulations! You parents are superior to all of us non-parents. You can procreate? We're all impressed. All the BS about "you can't possibly appreciate the challenges of parenthood...blah blah.. daycare..etc" I do appreciate the challenges and expenses of raising children, that's why I've decided to live my life without them. Go ahead parents, tell me my life is worthless, unfullfilled, and empty. We non-parents have heard all that propaganda before. In ten years those three women will be spending every weekend at soccer or field hockey or baseball games. They'll be socking away every dime for college, praying their daughters don't get pregnant, and wondering when their son will crash their car. While we, my non-parent friends and I, will still be singing our favorite tune -- "I'm so glad I don't have children", buying shiny new cams and taking expensive overseas climbing trips with money that would have been wasted on some brat's college education.

In a complete coincidence, Saturday at the Home D