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rockreaver


Aug 3, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Redemption? [In reply to]
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Bread and circuses? Sexual favors? Obscenities?

That explains why you are so down on kids. So that's what it was like for you growing up? Ouch. Man that's painful.

You should get some help.Tongue


jt512


Aug 3, 2009, 10:53 PM
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Re: [bigevilgrape] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Five stars. You should break your silence more often.

Jay


chrisJoosse


Aug 3, 2009, 11:17 PM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climberguy2011 wrote:
chrisJoosse wrote:


Let me add another FU to the chorus.

I am just as interested in having a good time as you, and I am fervently committed to not being one of 'those &@#$%*parents', but if you can't get along when reasonably-regulated kids are around, that's your problem.

I'll add a fuck you to the chorus of those too emasculated to say so. i.e. you. Fuck off and rot.

The shitheads I referenced were not regulated, were not supervised, and were not safe.
Why did I not call the Department of Children and Families/ It ain't my business. Climbing is.
Yet strangely you've made it your business- you didn't have to start this conversation, you know. The subject is obviously important to you.

I get your point, really I do. You want the crag to work, and unregulated kids render the situation very quickly unworkable. You may even want the crag to work for everyone, but your 'solution' (leave the kids at home) doesn't work for me. And your attitude almost, but doesn't quite incline me to organize a field trip of 4-year olds to come to your crag and sing a rousing chorus of Barney tunes until your liver explodes in a spray of apoplexy. Tongue

It sucks when people aren't responsible, but the solution to the problem is not to be an asshole about it. Ghandi once said "be the change you want to see in the world", and he was on to something- if it's important to you, (and it obviously is) you really have limited options: make a difference or be resentful about it. Your call.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing my boy to the crag. I do hope you can appreciate how that might be important to me. And if you can't... well, I can always start up with the kid's chorus. Sly


curt


Aug 3, 2009, 11:28 PM
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Re: [jt512] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location.

lena_chita wrote:
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip

The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Five stars. You should break your silence more often.

Jay

I'm not completely surprised that you would support the singularly selfish perspective here, but I am somewhat surprised that you don't have more empathy for those who have children.

Curt


bigevilgrape


Aug 4, 2009, 4:19 AM
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Re: [climboard] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climboard wrote:
Did the toddlers throwing rocks all of three feet really scare you that much?

I don't know about him but any time kids are chucking around rocks it scares the piss out of me. Especially at rumney where there is often another crag directly below the one you are at.


robbovius


Aug 4, 2009, 4:19 AM
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Re: [curt] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
subantz wrote:
...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets...

It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle.

Curt

dude, he's from fucking Georgia, props to him that he can simply operate a PC and write, well... anything.


robbovius


Aug 4, 2009, 4:30 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climberguy2011 wrote:
Future children there will be none. Fuck off..

then you will never, ever, not ever, fully mature, and will spend your life in a state of arrested adolescense.

....and every other parent reading this thread, knows that for the truth.

the truest fullness of your humanity, the only true measure of success, is in raising children. all else is gloss.


austinnokc


Aug 4, 2009, 5:08 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Wow, This thread has gone crazy. If this is possibly an attempted troll I believe it worked.

Mad Climbers Hierarchy
1. Broken Holds or Holds broken by people.
2. Being mean to little Children.
3. Rainy Days
4. Gear Failure
5. Unclean climbing practices.
6. Keep Adding Fellows

I have a little 15 mon old at the house and she loves climbing over momma and me. Can not wait until she can come climbing with me and my partners but that won't be for a while longer. I do look forward to sharing the outdoors and the vertical world with her.

Austin


lodi5onu


Aug 4, 2009, 5:33 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Come on! You still got the onsight of Couch Potato 5.9

haha, pussy


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 4, 2009, 6:11 AM
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Re: [lodi5onu] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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The "cookies and bj" comment to a post that was calm, polite and clear shows one of two thing:
1) The user is a troll. And a pretty good one. I mean "Leave Your Damn Dog at Home" has been done to death.

With the cookie/bj comment, the OP even throws his newly minted persona under the bus to further his cause.

Wonder who this alt goes with....

2) The user is a emotionally unstable. My bet is the reason the honking/fingers in traffic don't bother him is because he does it so often he's no longer aware he's speaking of himself with that comment.


jdefazio


Aug 4, 2009, 6:16 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climberguy2011 wrote:
The planet is over-populated as it is, and furthering the status quo will accomplish nothing.

Yawn *tired argument is tired*


dingus


Aug 4, 2009, 6:19 AM
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Re: Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT


(This post was edited by dingus on Aug 4, 2009, 6:20 AM)


shockabuku


Aug 4, 2009, 6:40 AM
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Re: [dingus] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

DMT

I prefer the kids.

I never see cats at the crags.


reg


Aug 4, 2009, 6:49 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?

2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?

3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.

4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.

5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.


6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.

7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.

climberguy - what she said!


wonderwoman


Aug 4, 2009, 6:54 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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Here is where your problem begins:

climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness.

Rumney is a zoo. If you want solitude, try some multi-pitch or areas that have longer approaches. Then I can write a rant complaining about you being there and ruining my day of climbing.


bobbj22


Aug 4, 2009, 7:00 AM
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Re: [dingus] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Bitch all you want - it changes nothing. Our kids bother you more than they bother us. We are way worse than dog people.

Nothing wrong with dog people or people people, only people who cannot control their dogs and people who think that they're more important because they chose to bang and creampie instead of wearing a raincoat or popping a pill. You chose to have children or are just lucky (or unlucky depending on your mentality) so in doing so you silently agreed that you were gonna give some things up. One of those things is frequent climbing trips and having time for yourself. It sucks but you need to wait until they are older and more mature so they can be safe while alone, can be educated and appreciate the environment, and not disturb everyone else. If you know the kids are really interested in climbing and not just using the base of the crag like a playground, then I say of course bring them. Its for the better of the community. When it ruins everyone else's good time because you chose to have a kid and are too impatient to wait for the right time to introduce them to climbing, then I say leave the kids at home.

Let me say that this is assuming you are trad or sport climbing. If you are bouldering I would say you can keep a good eye on younger ones while working some problems out. When bouldering, you can typically find other problems in the area and they are less likely to set up camp if they are moving constantly too.

Oh and there's the profanity thing again. If you want to bring your kids and you know they are little shits, then you are a prick and quit sharing your living example of bad parenting with everyone else. As a parent, you know if your child is a pain in public. I know this because I was a pain. If I wanted to be an asshole I could instill a new vocabulary in your child's mind. Then you could have a Denace the Menace with a sailor's mouth. If that doesn't work, I could always throw rocks back. Pfft haha


fresh


Aug 4, 2009, 7:02 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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at least kids don't track mud all over your rope and whine when their parents start climbing, as all dogs do.

(yes, even your dog.)


AltitudeJunkie


Aug 4, 2009, 7:03 AM
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AGREED!!!
when i have kids mine are going to get started out in a gym (flame on) so they can learn basic climbing etiquette. maybe thats not taught at all gyms but at the one i used to work at, it was. kids were just as well behaved as the adults for the most part. no running in the gym no running at the crag. no screaming or being loud and rowdy at the gym, no being loud and rowdy at the crag. i have seen some incredibly poorly behaved kids at the crag but also some incredibly well behaved kids (so i know its possible.) maybe my theory of starting them out in the gym is flawed, but before my kid sets foot on an approach trail, they will know better than to misbehave. maybe it will take longer than I think but im not going to be the parent at the crag that everyone else hates because i can't control my kid.


nickrp


Aug 4, 2009, 7:06 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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climberguy2011 wrote:
So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.

Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.

There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.


The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route

Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.

Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.

Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.

OK, first off I will agree with you, those kids sounded like a pain in the ass and probably should not have been there as they sounded like they were hazards to both themselves and others. But I will have to partially disagree with you, I think that kids are fine, if they meet ALL of the following criteria:
1. They climb, or are learning to climb, this does not mean running around in a harness! I mean really learning and focused.
2. Their parents understand what real discipline is. None of this new agey “I am disappointed in you…” or even worse “Jesus is disappointed with you.” Because honestly a 5 year old could not care less who is disappointed! They are 5! BUT they do understand a swat on the butt hurts and they don’t want another. (sorry, worked in a daycare in college in an upscale neighborhood, I have been jaded…)
3. They don’t scream, cry, or whine without there being some blood or perturbing bone to accompany it. There is nothing worse than when you are focused to have some whinny ass brat screaming about a splinter or stubbed toe. I know when kids get hurt they freak but GOOD parents teach their kid, or rather train their kid to not freak out over little things. ESPECIALLY Little girls, they are NOT princesses and they are no better than anyone else’s little girl. (Damn Disney has warped their brains!)
4. There are enough adults to have at least one adult per 2 kids at all times. None of this mommy is climbing, daddy is belaying, and little Johnny is running amuck. Bring a sitter, a friend, hell drag out a family member who doesn’t even climb! Just make sure there are adult eyes on your kid all the time! Rocks hurt!
5. They don’t need TOYS to entertain themselves outdoors. Parents need to teach their kids to appreciate the outdoors and teach them to entertain themselves when in the forest/desert/ ect. This does not mean throwing rocks, but maybe a little exploring or god forbid maybe a little firsthand education. They need to teach their kids to appreciate every moment because the way we are heading, there might not be any “outdoors” to take their kids to when they grow up.
OK before I hear all the flaming, especially about little girls and how I should not have kids. I don’t want any! So don’t worry. I helped my wife raise her little 10 year old sister practically as both parents worked crazy schedules and we were the baby sitters. And you know what, when she falls and begins to cry, and I am around… she knows no blood, no broken bones, NO Tears! And if she wants something done, she does it herself if she can. None of this Meggy, Meggy, tie my shoe or help me over this rock BS. And if she is misbehaving, it only takes one look…. Just one, and she stops. And NO I have never spanked her, she’s not my kid (even though it feels like it) but I sure as hell don’t tell her “I am disappointed” I tell her he gameboy is going to disappear or her TV is going to spend some time in my closet, and I mean it! And if that doesn’t work, yeah my wife will put her over the knee, just like I was!

All and all, I think well behaved kids are fine. Every kid should be exposed to the outdoors! Get their fat asses off the couch and away from the TV and Gameboys! But I will agree with ClimberGuy, those kids should not have been there, and those parents were bad parents for bringing them someplace dangerous. You should know what your kids can handle, and they sounded like typical little kids not interested in climbing. OK feel free to rip me a new one now…

EDIT: Holy Hell, I forgot about the swearing!! Sorry folks, if you take your kid out to a Public location, WILLINGLY in contact with large groups of adults, its your problem. I did not decide to pop out a kid, as well as did not decide to hang out with your kid. I decided to head out with other adults to have some adult fun. And if i let out an F-bomb for some reason, i really dont care if you kid is in earshot. If you are a good parent, you will teach you kid that swearing at their age is not OK. And YOU will lead by example, not me. Granted, I do watch my language when around my little sister, but that is because I have made the decision to hang out with a little kid and at that moment I am the example. And when/if something does slip out, she knows, she is 10, not 25! And a 10 year old does not talk like that. But sorry parents, when im out with my friends, year, we swear and we talk dirty (only with the guys) and we will even be respectful of others if they are in earshot. But im not going to watch my mouth every second as while doing adult activities, in a public place, with other adults, things slip out. And after being on best behavor in my cubical all week, im not looking to tip toe around YOUR children. Cool


(This post was edited by nickrp on Aug 4, 2009, 7:25 AM)


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 7:15 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I never see cats at the crags.

When I go bouldering at some of the local haunts I will often bring my Ferrets.

There are way too many people here going off on the troll, I know this isn't the best place for reasoned discussion or well thought out statements, but the hypocrisy is astounding.

How can you deride someone for being a jerk about not empathizing with the joys of bringing your kids into the "wilderness" while at the same time show a complete lack of empathy towards someone else's desire for a peaceful day climbing?

Many people have put forth the obvious connection between dogs and kids, but lets talk about some of the other potential crag distractions. i.e. How about a crag that sits on a property where it is legal to discharge firearms? If someone (a climber even) was at the base of the crag rat-a-tatting there favorite semi auto (responsibly even), how many people would be OK with that?

With that said, at Rumney you should expect four things: Kids, Gumbies, French Canadians, and Black Flies


gmggg


Aug 4, 2009, 7:18 AM
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Re: [nickrp] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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nickrp wrote:
OK, first off I will agree with you, those kids sounded like a pain in the ass and probably should not have been there as they sounded like they were hazards to both themselves and others. But I will have to partially disagree with you, I think that kids are fine, if they meet ALL of the following criteria:
1. They climb, or are learning to climb, this does not mean running around in a harness! I mean really learning and focused.
2. Their parents understand what real discipline is. None of this new agey “I am disappointed in you…” or even worse “Jesus is disappointed with you.” Because honestly a 5 year old could not care less who is disappointed! They are 5! BUT they do understand a swat on the butt hurts and they don’t want another. (sorry, worked in a daycare in college in an upscale neighborhood, I have been jaded…)
3. They don’t scream, cry, or whine without there being some blood or perturbing bone to accompany it. There is nothing worse than when you are focused to have some whinny ass brat screaming about a splinter or stubbed toe. I know when kids get hurt they freak but GOOD parents teach their kid, or rather train their kid to not freak out over little things. ESPECIALLY Little girls, they are NOT princesses and they are no better than anyone else’s little girl. (Damn Disney has warped their brains!)
4. There are enough adults to have at least one adult per 2 kids at all times. None of this mommy is climbing, daddy is belaying, and little Johnny is running amuck. Bring a sitter, a friend, hell drag out a family member who doesn’t even climb! Just make sure there are adult eyes on your kid all the time! Rocks hurt!
5. They don’t need TOYS to entertain themselves outdoors. Parents need to teach their kids to appreciate the outdoors and teach them to entertain themselves when in the forest/desert/ ect. This does not mean throwing rocks, but maybe a little exploring or god forbid maybe a little firsthand education. They need to teach their kids to appreciate every moment because the way we are heading, there might not be any “outdoors” to take their kids to when they grow up.
OK before I hear all the flaming, especially about little girls and how I should not have kids. I don’t want any! So don’t worry. I helped my wife raise her little 10 year old sister practically as both parents worked crazy schedules and we were the baby sitters. And you know what, when she falls and begins to cry, and I am around… she knows no blood, no broken bones, NO Tears! And if she wants something done, she does it herself if she can. None of this Meggy, Meggy, tie my shoe or help me over this rock BS. And if she is misbehaving, it only takes one look…. Just one, and she stops. And NO I have never spanked her, she’s not my kid (even though it feels like it) but I sure as hell don’t tell her “I am disappointed” I tell her he gameboy is going to disappear or her TV is going to spend some time in my closet, and I mean it! And if that doesn’t work, yeah my wife will put her over the knee, just like I was!

All and all, I think well behaved kids are fine. Every kid should be exposed to the outdoors! Get their fat asses off the couch and away from the TV and Gameboys! But I will agree with ClimberGuy, those kids should not have been there, and those parents were bad parents for bringing them someplace dangerous. You should know what your kids can handle, and they sounded like typical little kids not interested in climbing. OK feel free to rip me a new one now…

+1

I think this was a successful troll, but this is still the right answer.


lena_chita
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Aug 4, 2009, 7:23 AM
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Re: [bigevilgrape] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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bigevilgrape wrote:
I'm going to break my silence here.

I think it is inappropriate to bring 3 children up to a destination crag on a weekend. Children are more suited to being at smaller crags with fewer people. And I think it takes a lot of gull to criticize someone for swearing just because they have kids with them. Its an adult location and Rumney is a place people take big trips to. I see no reason why anyone should have to change their behavior because you decided to bring your children to an adult location. .

I actually mostly agree with you there. The parents may not have made the best decision in bringing the kids to that particular location, and it also sounds like they weren't the best parents in terms of keeping track of the kids and keeping them appropriately entertained, safe and out of other people's way.

However, this is NOT an issue of the kids themselves. I can guarantee you that in the same place at the same crag a different group of kids/parents might have been entirely well behaved and corteous to others.

I took issue with OP voicing his blank opposition to kids at the crag just because they were kids, and mildly interfering with his enjoyment of the day, as if kids should be locked away somewhere where no one would see them until they are adults. Some adults they would grow up to be, that way!

bigevilgrape wrote:
Invalid: I know the difficulties in finding overnight childcare because I have been the one watching peoples kids many times, but what the hell. You CHOSE to have kids so you chose to take on this challenge. (We won't go into my thoughts for people who didn't chose to have their kids) Sometimes you have to put off a climbing trip and wait until the kids are old enough to behave safely and appropriately for that trip.

I agree that people should'nt have kids unless they have thought through the rumifications of that decision and are willing to accept the resonsibilities that come with that decision. Idon't agree with the rest. Children learn by doing. The best way to teach them to behave safely and appropriately in certain situations is to expose them to those situations and teach them how they are expected to behave. Certain situations have to be avoided for safety, but they are the minority. Obviously having 3 toddler-age kid coped up all day at a 10x10ft ledge with a 30ft drop on one side would be unrealistic...

Of course, in the OP it sounded like there wasn't much appropriate teaching going on. However, we only heard one side of the story, and I have a feeling it was a rather biased telling. Still, it is not KIDS' fault that they behave like kids do. It is the adult's fault, and the solution is not to keep the kids away, but to teach them to behave appropriately.

For what it's worth, in 4 years of going on trips, I have seen only ONE group of kids (two families, 3 kids total, ages 5-7 at the time) that behaved really disruptively and annoyed other people at the crag--and IMO it was clearly parents' fault.

I have seen one other family (3 kids, ages 4-8) where the parents were doing everything right, and the kids were still rather loud and disruptive to other people, though less so than the first case, b/c the parents were very vigilant. In this particular case I happen to know that the kids have certain ADHD and Aspergers issues.

Every other family with kids that I have come across while climbing has been no more disruptive to my climbing or to other people at the crag than any other group of same number individuals would have been.

I do believe that my children are pretty well-behaved at the crag, and I certainly work to make it that way, but I would let other people who have climbed with me when I had the kids along say anything about it. My daughter has been coming along with us since she was 2.5 years old. My son was 6.5yo at the time.

I would be the first one to tell any parent thinking of bringing their kids to the crag that it is a whole 'nother game when you bring the kids along, and you have to be prepared for it. You can't come with the mentality that you are going to send and crush while the kids stay out of your way. If you are the person primarily in charge of the kids, you come with the mentality that you are spending time with the kids, and doing a little bit of climbing as your parenting duties allow.

For now, I do my best (as in, my strongest) climbing without my kids. When I have the kids along, I get more kick out of watching my daughter boulder the starts of every route. It is a different kind of best.

bigevilgrape wrote:
The other problem I see in this picture is 3 toddlers and 3 adults. Its one thing to bring one toddler out to the crag, but 3? That's asking for trouble. At a place where there is very little room at the bottom of the crag and with 3 little ones running around someone is gonna take a digger over the edge and go tumbling down the very steep hill behind them.

I don't think its a question of leaving all kids at home, its about knowing when it is appropriate to bring them with you. To me this is a case where it was clearly inappropriate as well as unsafe. And to be honest I see more parents who don't know how to deal with their kids when they take them climbing then those who do. (Which is exactly how I feel about crag dogs since people feel the need to draw similarities)

And for the love of god if you don't want your children to hear anyone swear then you shouldn't take them to places you know there will be swearing.

Again, I agree with you that the parents have not made the best choices. But the solution is not to leave the kids at home, as the OP seems to think.

We don't know the full story. Maybe the parents in question are just starting out and learning what works for their families when they go climbing. Maybe they learned their lesson after this weekend and won't do it the same way again.

But in the end, I doubt they were more annoying than a group of gumbies who strew their gear all over the place where you can trip on it, walk blindly under a climber bouldering to the first bolt, step on other people's ropes, etc. etc.; or the dogs who run headlong into the belayers, nose through other people's lunches and snarl at you.


olderic


Aug 4, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
Rumney is a zoo. If you want solitude, try some multi-pitch or areas that have longer approaches. Then I can write a rant complaining about you being there and ruining my day of climbing.

Bingo Tiff - if you hadn't said it I would have. I usually bring multiple kids AND a large dog when I go to Rumney. Of course several of my kids (yup to the OP - I have more kids then you can count - all the world's dwindling resources are going to be consumed by my family and the dog will will poop on what ever is left) would warm up on the OP's projects but the dog and I would still find them a challenge...


MikeSaint


Aug 4, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Sucker [In reply to]
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Whats up with Rumney? Never been in that neck of the woods. I guess I'm due for a bad day at the crag. Never had a problem with dogs, boomboxes and children.


markc


Aug 4, 2009, 7:32 AM
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Re: [climberguy2011] Leave your damn kids at home [In reply to]
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As a parent, I'm torn between a real need to expose my child to the world around him and a desire to not negatively impact those around me in the process. I try to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible. That means bringing enough toys, food, and drink, bringing a blanket or other comfort items as necessary, etc. In some environments, it also means having a manageable adult to child ratio. I'm also prepared to make an exit if possible.

My kid has just as much right as anyone to be in public places, but that doesn't mean all locations are equal in terms of child-friendliness. It's important to prepare your children for the environment they're entering into as best as possible, but they aren't robots. They have their own perspective and reactions.

People have said, "Leave them at home until they're responsible." How do you think responsibility is instilled? In my experience, it's not by avoiding new situations. Kids aren't going to learn how to behave at the crag by sitting at home until some magical age of reason. Some crags are more kid-friendly than others. I have no issue with bringing my kid to a crag where there's a reasonable amount of space a the base, and low chance of rock fall. It sounds like these parents made a bad choice. (I've never been to Rumney, but it sounds a little awkward for that size of a group, and with that ratio of kids to adults.) That said, if any party is negatively impacting you, you also have the choice to move. I've done it myself more than once.

By the way, here's a picture of my kid's first time on rope. He insisted I wear my helmet, as well. What few people we ran into (climber or otherwise) were really friendly towards my son, and said it was really cool to see him all geared up. We were in a group with four adults, and no other kids. When he wasn't climbing, his new monster truck was a popular distraction. This was easily one of my better climbing days.



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