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climberguy2011
Aug 3, 2009, 11:34 PM
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So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue.
Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes.
There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance.
The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route
Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured.
Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location.
Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
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bill413
Aug 3, 2009, 11:43 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote: So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue. Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes. There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance. The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured. Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location. Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
FU.
I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them?
I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.
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curt
Aug 3, 2009, 11:51 PM
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climberguy2011 wrote: So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue. Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes. There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance. The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured. Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location. Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
Just wait till you have kids. I hope somebody reads this back to you. 
Curt
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codhands
Aug 3, 2009, 11:54 PM
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I second the FU. I have two kids age 3.5 and 5.5 and both are very interested and good at climbing. If you were a real hardman you would be climbing where it would be nearly impossible for those self serving jerk breeders to take their snotnosed little little inconsiderate parasites called children. That last part was for your benefit by BTW. Also, swearing doesn't make you cool.
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kriso9tails
Aug 3, 2009, 11:56 PM
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It's more an issue of teaching your kids to behave than leaving them at home. Do poorly behaved kids and parents that won't take responsibility for them really belong anywhere in particular?
I've seen adults that throw rocks at inappropriate places, run around screaming, cry and are a general nuisance. Usually it's someone throwing a tantrum on a route that's over their head. The only difference between these people and little children is that little children can generally be talked to and reasoned with. Bad behavior is bad behavior for the most part. It's true of adults, of kids, of dogs... of whatever.
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lena_chita
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Aug 4, 2009, 12:03 AM
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1. What makes you think that you as a person are more entitled to being at any particular public place than another person who happens to be 5 years old?
2. You are entitled to be annoyed by certain things-- I have my own list, too. I suggest you anticipate these things and take steps to avoid them, instead of expecting other people to stay away in order for you to have a good day. How about going for a longer approach?
3. You obviously don't have kids, so you casn't possibly appreciate the difficulties that adults with kids face, in terms of finding appropriate overnight childcare for young children.
4. You do not have kids, so you can't possibly understand the educational value to kids who are exposed to a variety of situations and see their parents enjoy various activities.
5. There are obnoxious children everywhere, and even the best kids can and do have bad days. The same is true for all adults. When dealing with abnoxious individuals of any age, your best bet is a polite mention to adults in charge. You would be surprized how effective this can be. However, if it doesn't work, go back to point 2.
6. Unless you are under 20yo, and still have some hope of growing up, I suggest that you take steps to make sure that not having kids is a permanent fact for you.
7. I am pretty sure my daughter will outclimb you by the time she is 8yo. She is 6yo now.
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knieveltech
Aug 4, 2009, 12:08 AM
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Nope. Not buying it.
All of the following are fair game for a rant:
- Crag dogs
- Boom Boxes
- Gibbering clots of gumbies
- Spraylord bullshit
Children, on the other hand, are perfectly acceptable. Hell, it's unusual these days to see parents willing to spend quality time with their kids outdoors. Props to em. If you don't like it do what most folks do when I break out the lycra at the crag: find somewhere else to climb.
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jakedatc
Aug 4, 2009, 12:08 AM
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bill413 wrote: climberguy2011 wrote: So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue. Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes. There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance. The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured. Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location. Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers. FU. I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them? I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.
I've only seen set ups like that at the Meadows and where it was one kid in a playpen with one parent. I wouldn't think someone would haul all that shit up higher. I probably woulda been pissed too..
Would you have posted the same thing if the child that fell 5 feet was at Bonsai and took a 30 footer off the ledge and had been seriously injured or worse?
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erisspirit
Aug 4, 2009, 12:10 AM
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That is more of an issue of parenting. Not teaching them to be well behaved, and not being attentive. If the children were well behaved, and the 3rd adult in the group payed attention, took them on a hike, or helped them climb, would it have been so terrible?
Seems like the biggest issue was they were loud, disrespectful, and ill supervised.
The main reason I love the outdoors so much is my parents took me out to the mountains every Sunday. It is one of my fondest memories, and I doubt I would be as attached to the wilderness if it wasn't for that.
Anywhere can be a dangerous environment for a child... even their own home.
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subantz
Aug 4, 2009, 12:19 AM
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Swearing does make you look kools. I dont like or dislike kids, but would rather not be around them climbing. Simply because swear sometimes, Ok alot, and the last thing I want to hear is," HEY watch your mouth there are kids here." Like I give a shit. I usually tell parents in this case. I am not going to watch what I say I am not in court or church. Like you would find me in church anyways. They usually pack up. If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets. If the parents yell at you Yell back. Show those little fuckers that you have a freedom of speech and you intend on exercising your right. This thould help fuel your fire
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dingus
Aug 4, 2009, 12:23 AM
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I don't mind kids at certain crags and as a parent, their noise and activity don't really bother me all that much if at all.
But there is a safety issue and I have seen parents put their kids into accelerated risk zones. Hell I've done it too.
If you REALLY want to know what its like to be a parent, watch a season's worth of Malcom in the Middle reruns. This will remind you brother... of yourself.
I agree generally that parents should not take their kids to busy crags until the kid can operate reasonably independantly and not get in other climbers way or play in fall zones
Throwing rocks is border line - sorta depends on circumstance then.
Mate did you say something to them or just simmer and burn? I've done both of that too.
DMT
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irregularpanda
Aug 4, 2009, 12:24 AM
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Hey man,
I think you need to go climbing elsewhere, cuz fighting this is like fighting the tide. It's not gonna change anything. Did you even talk to the parents about your issue, did you approach them and confront them about the disturbance and "danger" involved?
Either that or you need a lawn and a rocking chair to go with your porch, so you can yell at small children who dare to walk on your precious turf.
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curt
Aug 4, 2009, 12:32 AM
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subantz wrote: ...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets...
It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle.
Curt
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Neel
Aug 4, 2009, 12:39 AM
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bill413 wrote: I agree that uncontrolled kids are annoying pretty much anywhere. But, they are more a part of the family than the dogs. Do you rant about them? I've seen kids from a few months to 20 years old (at least) coming to the crags with their parents. I think it's good for them to be exposed to the sport, to the outdoors, to what their parents enjoy.
QFT. I dont mind dogs, as long as their owners can control them. I'ts great that people are exposing their kids to the sport.
A couple things though -
1. if the kids are doing something that's bugging you or you think is potentially unsafe, politely tell their parents.
2. I agree with one thing... I try to keep my language clean when kids are around, but once in a while you'll rip from a hold and scream some explicit things. If parents are bringing their kids to the crag, it's somewhat expected they're going to hear some 4 letter words here and there.
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bobbj22
Aug 4, 2009, 12:42 AM
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For the most part I do agree. Teach your kids how to act. I realize that kids are kids, but if you put those kids into a hazardous environment, you better teach them what to do and what not to do. Don't be mad at the kids, it's the parents that need to take control and educate their children. If they can't be left alone while you climb or belay then they aren't old enough, mature enough, or interested enough to be there.
Also, the rock is a public place. If you can't handle some other people losing their cool every once in awhile then you need to catch up with the times because you are going to find some sort of bad language at most public places that have young people, unfortunately. You can even find it on cable television which children generally have access to. Oh Noo! Hurry put a password lock on TBS before the children turn to lives of crime!!
If you weren't used to shrill screams and irritating nuisances then you would understand why other people get pissed. But you don't remember what it's like to not have kids so don't assume everyone has the same tolerance for irrating loud noises. How would you like it if I watched a basketball game on a surround sound while you tried to do yoga.
I don't have kids but I hope that when I do have kids, I don't assume everyone else does and wants to put up with your kids' distractions. How would you like it if I brought a huge stereo and blared the thong song for part of the day? I'm just saying that it's happened to me with a huge group of middle school girls. If you honestly think me yelling "shit" or "fuck" out of my own frustration in front of you and your kids is more offensive to the ear than listening to them scream and yell for an hour than you're simply delusional and I'm wanting to have kids less and less and I speak.
On the other side of things, as I said before it's a public place so if people can get their screaming toddlers there, then they may bring them (I wouldn't though w/ some of the approaches I've been on). I have to say that an annoying barking dog and an annoying screaming kid have a similar effects on my mood after a period of time when I'm in the zone. Dogs are awesome (I have/had several), just don't bring them if they are going to bark until you come back down.
In your situation I would've probably told them to get control of their children and would've apologized for cursing. Solved.
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dingus
Aug 4, 2009, 12:45 AM
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curt wrote: subantz wrote: ...If the kids are a real pain just swear like you have torrets... It's "Tourette's"...you butt-plugging douche nozzle. Curt
Lol. That was Bristol Fashion Sir, straight up Bristol.
DMT
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subantz
Aug 4, 2009, 1:01 AM
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Hey, mudder trucker. Its what I says it is britch. OK let me appologize in advance. I loves to push da buttons. I simply enjoy to push and pull till someone gets offended. YOU WIN CURT. I was out with a kids summer camp over the past week. I watched my mouth and was well mannered. We all know in our right mind swearing around children is bad. I do not intentionaly curse around kids. I was trolling, yup I admit to it and you took the bait. NEXT.
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shorty
Aug 4, 2009, 1:06 AM
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climberguy2011 wrote: Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
It is unfortunate that we don't have a magic time machine which would allow us to:
1. see you during your pre-school years. I suspect you were a model of behavior.
2. see you with your future children during their pre-school years. I suspect they will be models of behavior.
3. see you during said recent climbs. I suspect you were a model of responsibility, who in no way would ever annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
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curt
Aug 4, 2009, 1:07 AM
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subantz wrote: ...I was trolling, yup I admit to it and you took the bait. NEXT.
Sure, misspelling can often be confused with trolling.
Curt
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tradrenn
Aug 4, 2009, 1:07 AM
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codhands wrote: I second the FU.
Third.
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subantz
Aug 4, 2009, 1:14 AM
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1. To lazy to do a spell check
2 cant read or write.
I vote for somewhere in between 1 and 5 but lean torward 3.
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ACJ
Aug 4, 2009, 1:19 AM
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I think your going a little over the top, there are bound to be some responsible adults out there.
Anyway, this is what I experienced today...
A sketchy summer camp full of crappy staff leading trips to the local crag. Then I looked on in horror as the staff teach the kids how to carve their names into the rock and knock over widow maker trees while they wait for their turn to "race" up the 4th class terrain that they put on top rope.
Now somebody needs to revoke their commercial permit to climb in the national forests...
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CrazyPetie
Aug 4, 2009, 1:38 AM
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I think kids should be exposed to the outdoors and climbing and such.. HOWEVER i'm with climberguy on this one i think.
Someone told you to watch your language around their kids at the crag? Thats would piss me off. Especially these days, kids are gonna learn "bad words" regardless of over protective sheltering. We're outside lady. Climbers swear. Goto the gym if you want your kids to have a christian climbing experiance.
Maybe if they just brought one kid that was well behaved, and who was there to learn to climb. I know i would deffinately be climbing elsewhere if 3 toddlers showed up.
Yea i was a shithead as a kid, who wasn't. I bet i annoyed alot of people. Climbing is a relaxing and peacful environment, it would be like bringing crying children to a movie.
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peg_leg1
Aug 4, 2009, 1:42 AM
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You my friend are an idiot. God forbid that you ever reproduce. If you ever find someone shallow enough to mate with, what would you do if you had your kid, no babysitter, and really wanted to go climbing? I bet all of a sudden it would be OK, wouldn't it? Some childless friends might have bitched if I brought my kids to the crags, but now that they have kids it's cool.
Also, if you could focus enough to drown out the kids, maybe you would climb harder. If you have anymore bitching to do, go down to the Gunks and talk to the Family Climbing crowd.
BTW those kids that you bitch about are climbing 5.11's at 10 years old.
(This post was edited by peg_leg1 on Aug 4, 2009, 2:13 AM)
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krazyk011
Aug 4, 2009, 1:43 AM
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climberguy2011 wrote: So, a few weekends ago, I was up at rumney for some sport goodness. While it was pretty hot and humid, it was a pretty good weekend for sending, and I ticked some good routes for me. It was a good weekend overall, except for one major issue. Leave your children at home. They do not belong at the crag, and by bringing them, you are not only ruining someone else's good time, you are putting them in a hazardous environment where the supervision is distracted by ideations of sending some sick 5.9 routes. There is a back story to my anger. We were climbing at new wave, and as soon as we got to the area, another party with three children and a maximum age of 5 showed up. There were three adults in the group, and all the requisite equipment, including but not limited to: A tent, several toy trucks, three kid carriers, and all of the other crap that comes with hauling children into an environment which they clearly do not belong. They soon proved this by throwing rocks down the trail, running around and screaming, crying, and being a general nuisance. The adult supervision treated their misbehavior with gentle scolding and no attempt to remedy the rock throwing or running around, as they were busy climbing. They did take the opportunity to scold me for swearing in frustration after falling on a route Not only were they annoying, they potentially endangered their kids by bringing them to a hazardous place, and this was evident when one of the younger children lost his footing and tumbled, much like a pinball, about 5 feet down the trail, to the utter shock of the parents. He fortunately was uninjured. Keep your fucking kids at home. The crag is not a safe place for children to run around, and not only do you put them in danger, you annoy the shit out of any other parties trying to have a good weekend. And then you bitch about my language when you brought them to an adult location. Leave the little bastards at home until they can be responsible for their own actions. I don't fucking care how cute they look in their little full body harness, or if they are the next chris fucking sharma. Keep them at home until they are of a responsible age, and don't annoy the fuck out of your fellow climbers.
Dude, I bet you are probably more annoying than most families with kids i've come across at the crag. I can't tell you how many 'adults' have pissed me off at the crag. I do agree that bringing 3 kids out without any other adults to help is probably not the best of ideas and would surely piss me off too... but-
my wife and I climb, and bring our 8 month old out on every trip. you bet your ass we bring toys and tent. She is awesome and loves to be outside at the crag. granted she is young but none the less, we manage her well. We are quite responsible and keep her happy. Shes got just as much right to be there as you. So, in that case, fuck YOU for thinking you are so privileged. Go the fuck back to gym (or to the Red) where all you elitist people think you own every cliff you flop up... and quit your bitching. its people like you that annoy ME.
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