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Partner oldsalt


Sep 15, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Thoughts During A Fall On Gear?
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This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)


shockabuku


Sep 15, 2009, 7:14 PM
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If I have time to think, I usually think "Am I going to stop before I hit the ground?"Shocked


colatownkid


Sep 15, 2009, 7:20 PM
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oldsalt wrote:
This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

if there is enough time to have a coherent, memorable, complete thought, it's typically, "man, this is taking a lot longer than it's supposed to." this is occasionally followed by "why am i upside down?"


freedan


Sep 15, 2009, 7:34 PM
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Oh shit....

That is about all that went through my mind on a recent 20' on a sand bagged 5.8 after pumping out and failing on a groveling mantel to a sloped ledge. Hanging there I gave thanks to the #2 BD that didn't budge above me and the .75 that did its job off the belay.


jt512


Sep 15, 2009, 8:48 PM
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oldsalt wrote:
This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay


villageidiot


Sep 15, 2009, 8:55 PM
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"I wonder if a thirty second introduction to belaying with a gri-gri was sufficient?"


coastal_climber


Sep 15, 2009, 9:30 PM
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jt512 wrote:
oldsalt wrote:
This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

What he said.


coastal_climber


Sep 15, 2009, 9:35 PM
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And if this climb was "5.Easy" why didn't you take the time to place good gear?


nattfodd


Sep 15, 2009, 10:43 PM
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I just took my first whipper on gear three days ago. I didn't think much during the actual fall, but in the split second where I felt like I was about to go down much faster than planned, I remember saying to myself "Hum, this is going to be interesting". The gear held.

In sport, I have thought a couple times "Hey, I'm still falling, what about that" on long whippers. But never fear. That usually comes afterward.


(This post was edited by nattfodd on Sep 15, 2009, 10:44 PM)


majid_sabet


Sep 16, 2009, 1:05 AM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC




Have a safe climb


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Sep 19, 2009, 8:41 PM)


king_rat


Sep 16, 2009, 3:53 AM
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I can't say i think about a lot during a fall, depending on how long the fall, I might get as far as "oh shit"


stabla


Sep 16, 2009, 6:21 AM
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Falling...

My mind tends to go completely blank during the actual "air time".

However, most of my reflections come during hours or even days after the fall. I begin wondering/asking skeptical questions such as:

If the last nut failed and I crater what will I be giving up due to near fatal injuries? (ability to walk etc)

Is falling really that much fun? Shouldn't every part of climbing be fun?

Is the adventure of trad climbing (in NC) :insert: macho/purist NC trad ethic line here :insert: really so rewarding that crippling myself is worth it?

I guess falling always makes me ask bigger questions. I have heard people do this after all near death experiences (climbing related or not). During times of hardship people begin to dig deep existentially and ask meaningful questions. I urge everyone to attempt to ask these questions when you look up at your next big objective.

When I look at a route its all about risk versus reward. Will the beautiful view up top, comraderie, and movement over stone outweigh the very real possibilty of:
A. rockfall
B. an actual climbing fall due to pump
C. sparse run-out gear
...the factors above can have serious consequences!

Climbing in my short experience (about 8 years) comes down to two things: being a safe competent climber who knows when to turn back or push it and LUCK.

So the next time you epic (fall, bivy etc) and make it back to the car alive. Be grateful...this universe is very old and completely careless about your existence. So slam a cold tallboy of your choice and rejoice in your consciousness. For we play a very dangerous game that involves alot of high risk and luck!


budman


Sep 16, 2009, 6:36 AM
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My thoughts while falling. "Some people actually pay for this free fall feeling".


c4c


Sep 16, 2009, 6:50 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:

Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC


Have a safe climb

nice.


petsfed


Sep 16, 2009, 7:40 AM
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I typically think "ah, dammit. Getting there was a ton of work, now I have to do it again".

Just like Jay, I've never had a piece fail while free climbing. If the gear is questionable, I simply choose not to fall, either by backing off or, you know, not falling.

The trick is, it is entirely by luck that most people survive long enough to develop the experience to know before they start up if they're likely to fall or not. You're not gonna know until you fall on it if your pro will hold, but you'll not know your own limits until you go beyond them (and fall). Catch-22, I know. It just illustrates the utility of sport climbing in the process of climbing harder without dying.


coolcat83


Sep 16, 2009, 8:35 AM
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Not that I've taken many falls that I'd consider big, small hops not usually enough time to realize it and form a thought. Longest fall was like a 25 foot pendulum/whipper, I knew I was coming off and couldn't do aything about it, my thoughts were not even of the gear (bomber red camalot) but more like, shit,shit, SHIT!, fuuuuuck, I hope I stop before that slab... ended up with my feet just touching so I sat down gently enough with rope stretch to fall backwards and ended up head first with my torso hanging off the edge (slab was the top of a roof) on my back down the slab. First thought, "huh, that gear really works."


dreday3000


Sep 16, 2009, 8:48 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:

Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC

Have a safe climb


Quite possibly the best Majid post I've read.


hansundfritz


Sep 16, 2009, 9:13 AM
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Not quite the same thing, but a similar thought process --

I got hit by a car once on my bike as I was rushing to make a train. I flew over the hood and landed on the other side.

I remember that it took an incredibly long time for the whole thing to take place -- long enough for me to have a few thoughts:

1. Oh crap, now I'm going to miss the train and maybe screw up the rest of my summer travel plans.

2. How much is it going to cost to fix the bike?

3. I wonder which hospital they'll take me to and whether my folks will make the trip to see me or whether I'll get released soon enough so they won't have to spend tons of money on plane tickets and hotel rooms.

4. I hope I land safely.

I kind of rolled and landed on my feet. The bike was wrecked. I picked it up and ran for the station and made the train. The car was also pretty wrecked -- flat tire, dented quarter panel, shattered windshield. The driver was half-drunk, so he was relieved that I was alive, and we took about 15 seconds to agree to just forget about it and keep moving.

Anyway, it seemed like I was in the air a long time -- plenty of time to think things over.


the_climber


Sep 16, 2009, 9:23 AM
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Most of my trad falls have been while roped soloing. This leads to various thoughts while ranging from:



WWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to

Oh SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to

Come on, please hold.

with a "Holy shite! I can't believe that held!" afterwards.


Aid falls typically have thoughts more along the lines of:

Woah! ugh, 1, ugh 2, ugh 3... phewww... woah, ahhh, 4, 5, 6...... WWWWWWHHHHOOOOOOOO YEAH!!!!!!!! #7 held!


(This post was edited by the_climber on Sep 16, 2009, 10:14 AM)


unrest


Sep 16, 2009, 9:57 AM
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Funny you'd ask this. The other day I was doing a roped solo on gear. I was 90% up the pitch and got to a place where I had not tied a backup knot under my SP and clipped it to my harness. I was about 6 feet above my last piece. I was holding on by my right pointer and middle finger to a sloper that offered a marginal side-pull at best. My left hand had nothing. I reached back thinking, "You dip-sh _ _ you should have tied the backup." So I grabbed a locker. Clipped it onto my feed line and twisted the biner with my left hand about 4 times and clipped it on. Not a knot, not a hitch but better than air. I then moved to my next thought. Which was:

" I know exactly which piece will blow and I'm above it. This shouldn't be a big deal then. I'm just going to jump."

As I started to think about how to jump I realized, "You dumb-ass just down climb to that plate sized ledge you were just on." So I did and it was over. Placed a cam and clipped. Tied a backup and then moved right past with no trouble.

All of that took about 30 seconds but once I topped out and replayed it in my head it seemed to take forever. I top-roped it then went back down and purposely fell on the piece I thought would blow and it held a 6' fall.

I climbed a few hours. Cleaned it all up and went home.


whippersnapper


Sep 16, 2009, 10:06 AM
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On larger falls, I have the total cliche "time slows down" experience. It's like another part of my brain takes over and I'm just watching and listening to it (same thing happened back in grade school the rare time I would get into a fight).

Basically this part of my brain covers things like: "okay you're going to swing this way so get your feet up", "the rope is behind your arm so move it", etc.

I'm curious if anyone else has this type of experience.


Gmburns2000


Sep 16, 2009, 10:25 AM
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I typically try think about my last piece and where I'm falling to. Honestly, I try to think where I'm going to land both if my last piece holds or doesn't.

However, I find that a lot of falls are over before I even knew they started. That was the case on Cannon about a month ago. I slipped and before I knew it the rope was tight.

Still, I had a lot going through my mind on this fall, and I was later rather surprised at how much info I processed in such a short period of time.


Stormeh


Sep 16, 2009, 11:12 AM
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jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink


jorgegonzalez


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Usually the fall is over before I have a chance to think. About the only thing going on in my brain is something to the effect of: "What the F**k?"

On occasion I wonder if I'm going to make the 6:00 p.m. news.


olderic


Sep 16, 2009, 12:49 PM
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Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 12:52 PM
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olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".
Laugh roflcopters


blueeyedclimber


Sep 16, 2009, 12:58 PM
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jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question. He asked "What are your thoughts during a fall?"

My thoughts are usually "Oh shit!", and then instinct takes over! You don't really have time to think in a fall, only react. That's why it is SO important to make sure you are not setting yourself up for a bad fall (i.e. rope behind your leg, moving above questionable gear when you might fall, etc.)

Josh


blueeyedclimber


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freedan wrote:
Oh shit....

That is about all that went through my mind on a recent 20' on a sand bagged 5.8 after pumping out and failing on a groveling mantel to a sloped ledge. Hanging there I gave thanks to the #2 BD that didn't budge above me and the .75 that did its job off the belay.

Modern Times? Cool


climbingaggie03


Sep 16, 2009, 1:32 PM
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I've only taken one fall of more than 3 or 4 feet and it was a thirty footer on the durrance crack pitch of the durrance route at devils tower (someone told me it was 5.6)

I was linking pitches 1 and 2 with a meager rack and I was unexperienced at big crack groveling. I was 15 feet above my last piece, probably the last piece I could get before the anchors, wherever they were, as I contemplated my options, my feet slipped

As I fell through the air, I yelled, "SHIT, SHIT....SHIT, WHOA DUDE THAT WAS A LONG FALL" while I was going....I was thinking, " Did I just feel that cam slide?"

I don't think the cam slid, I think my belayer got pulled, but I definitely felt myself slowdown and then keep falling.


Upperlimits


Sep 16, 2009, 2:43 PM
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Happens pretty fast. I usually think ... What was that last piece I put in????..... Before I remember I'm caught. Then I'm like ... Oh yeah the .5 C4. Then I think... Man that's a good piece. I should use it more. I've never been caught by a nut. I place a lot of them. It must just be easier climbing when I place nuts. When the climbing gets hard out come the cams. Plug and chug.


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 2:48 PM
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Upperlimits wrote:
Happens pretty fast. I usually think ... What was that last piece I put in????..... Before I remember I'm caught. Then I'm like ... Oh yeah the .5 C4. Then I think... Man that's a good piece. I should use it more. I've never been caught by a nut. I place a lot of them. It must just be easier climbing when I place nuts. When the climbing gets hard out come the cams. Plug and chug.

Hmm. I thought when the climbing gets hard, you have to run it out, and hope you get to a rest before pumping out or peeling off. Crazy


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 3:27 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 3:29 PM
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olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay


Stormeh


Sep 16, 2009, 3:43 PM
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jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 3:43 PM
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jt512 wrote:
olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

Hmm.Unsure I didn't expect your response to be so bland. I'm a tad bit disappointed. I'll just have to awe at the good use of the semicolon instead of a more humorous JT512 post.


el_layclimber


Sep 16, 2009, 3:46 PM
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jt512 wrote:
olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

Just superior in general I take it, then?


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 3:55 PM
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Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 4:05 PM
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jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts? I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear. You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.


suprasoup


Sep 16, 2009, 4:05 PM
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Last pitch of Second Coming on Muralla I'm presented with the usual four options. Which version do I wanna do today? Neither, lets just skip the cracks and climb the vertical face instead. The horizontal cracks dispersed along the length of the face were few and very far between but I knew that they were deep enough for solid tricam placements.
So off I go, chugging along placing equalized tricams in each horizontal I reach. Pretty sweet. I place my last equalized pieces (red and pinkie as usual) in preparation for the 40ish feet that can't be protected. I cruise the section and about 5ish feet from the bolted anchors I look up and a chipmunk plops on my face.Unsure Like any right minded idiot I grab it. With both hands. Frown
So here's the sequence of thoughts:
Seriously? There's a chipmunk on my face. Why does this shit always happen to me. Oh shit, I just grabbed it with both hands. Oh shit, I'm run out like crazy. And the last thought, OHHH SHITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Here's a pic of the "horizontals" basically just seams where the grass and pines were growing out of.Laugh

How massive that vertical head wall is.


So Alvin the Chipmunk and I go for a "ride" the tricams hold and I'm caught 10ish feet before slamming into the ledge at the start of the pitch but poor Alvin kept goingFrown Sorry buddy, I really tried to hang on.

Supra


(This post was edited by suprasoup on Sep 16, 2009, 4:08 PM)


sungam


Sep 16, 2009, 4:05 PM
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I can tell you what I thought when I thought the rope had broken or something (it was actually just angry dropping me with a grigri) "Fuck! I'm taking the full ride! What's the best landing position? I know! Like a fucking Para! Ankles and knees together. I'm falling really slow, I wonder if that's rope drag or just slomo? Holy shit, this is gunna hurt like a bitch! I wonder how much it will hurt? Hey, the ropes coming tight! Fuck, that hurt.


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 4:12 PM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay


sspssp


Sep 16, 2009, 4:13 PM
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My second fall on gear I had just left the big belay ledge and started up a corner and placed a blue alien about 10 feet up. My first thought was, "Sh*t, that was wet". Second was, "I wonder if that alien is going to hold", and third was "even if it does, I wonder if the rope catches before I deck". All the questions got answered yes, but I was fortunate that my belayer was tied in with a lot of slack and ran down the ledge.


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 4:24 PM
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jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 4:30 PM
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bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 4:42 PM
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jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.


Stormeh


Sep 16, 2009, 5:07 PM
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jt512 wrote:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.
Jay

If pulling the hardest possible move is your primary concern, then why not take up pebble wrestling? Or are your ankles as brittle as your ego?


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 5:09 PM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 5:18 PM
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Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.
Jay

If pulling the hardest possible move is your primary concern, then why not take up pebble wrestling?

Why don't you just do the kind of climbing you like, and let me do the kind of climbing I like. I don't put down trad climbing, bouldering, ice climbing, or anything else. I do put down those who vocalize their delusion that their preferred form of climbing is morally superior to others. Of course, it's only trad climbers who do that, for some reason.

Jay


PatMcGinn


Sep 16, 2009, 5:34 PM
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"Trad" climbers... I tried a "sport" route at whitehorse and the bolts were 15 feet apart... Then again some of the bolts at rumney are 10 so it's really not a big difference.

Personally sport climbing allows you to focus on the movement and enjoy the climbing (not saying trad doesn't) but it allows you to solely concentrate on movement, which is why I enjoy it. I like aspect of control in trad where I am in control of my safety.


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 5:35 PM
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jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 5:47 PM
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bennydh wrote:
You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Well, there has to be some reason that you have convinced yourself of the moral superiority of trad climbing. I mean, you don't actually believe it, do you?

In reply to:
Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing.

Is that supposed to be a coherent statement?

In reply to:
Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

You don't think that you sound like a jackass by putting down sport climbing, and pretending that trad climbing is morally superior. And by accusing me, without a shred of evidence, of having "quit" trad climbing because I don't have the stomach for it anymore. And for making ageist insults. Sorry, but do you really think I am the one making the public fool of himself?

Jay


Partner oldsalt


Sep 16, 2009, 5:50 PM
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jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

I was doing a climbing traverse up and right and placed a nut that was held in place by the rope pulling down and left. Then I continued further up and right. It is possible that the nut shimmied out before I broke traction.

Mea culpa! I have the opportunity to do it correctly next time.


code08


Sep 16, 2009, 6:16 PM
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My thoughts are always
"How can I make this hurt the least"
and yes it does hurt when you deck


Bag11s


Sep 16, 2009, 6:46 PM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.


olderic


Sep 16, 2009, 6:52 PM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
olderic wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Not surprising, isn't it rare for shiny new bolts to fail? Wink
More like his pinkpoint draws that are stick clipped 3 bolts ahead of him so he can think he is "leading".

More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.

Jay

Hmm.Unsure I didn't expect your response to be so bland. I'm a tad bit disappointed. I'll just have to awe at the good use of the semicolon instead of a more humorous JT512 post.

Maybe his random profanity generator (apparently the basis for many of his "witty and insightful" retorts) is on the fritz - it seems to keep inserting "morally superior" in nonsensical places.


jt512


Sep 16, 2009, 7:08 PM
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Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 16, 2009, 7:10 PM)


blkela


Sep 16, 2009, 7:23 PM
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jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.


(This post was edited by blkela on Sep 16, 2009, 7:27 PM)


petsfed


Sep 16, 2009, 7:29 PM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you


(This post was edited by petsfed on Sep 16, 2009, 7:30 PM)


Oddball


Sep 16, 2009, 7:35 PM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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My thought's:

Thank God i'm wearing my Brown pantsUnsure


notapplicable


Sep 16, 2009, 9:59 PM
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blkela wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.

Truly the purest expression of this sport.

As long as your not using chalk that is. Which would be like playing pocket pool during absolution. SPIRITUAL CRIMES!


bennydh


Sep 16, 2009, 11:46 PM
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In reply to:
No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

This thread earlier:
In reply to:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting. -Jay
In reply to:
Is that why you turned to bolts? I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear. You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard. -Ben

I didn't think this was all that inflammatory. Apparently, I was wrong since I received the elitist response of:
In reply to:
Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.
This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.
-Jay

Petsfed, I wouldn't have thought after reading that, that I'd be the one called an elitist twat. Although, you are entitled to your opinion.

For the record I boulder, sport climb, and trad climb. Although trad climbing has taken me to more adventurous and interesting climbing. Some of that climbing is hard, some of it is easy, but either can be interesting. If you think you have to crank hard in any type of climbing to make it interesting, I feel bad for you. Jay stated this, I thought it was incredibly elitist, I disagreed, and we started mudslinging.

I shouldn't have called Jay an idiot. I know with a certainty that Jay isn't and idiot, just a jerk and that is part of his charm. Smile


jt512


Sep 17, 2009, 2:36 AM
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Re: [bennydh] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
In reply to:
No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

This thread earlier:
In reply to:
And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting. -Jay
In reply to:
Is that why you turned to bolts? I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear. You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard. -Ben

I didn't think this was all that inflammatory.

"Turned to bolts." "Shiny bolts." "Overprotecting everything." "Just to climb hard." Give me a fucking break. Each one of those phrases is elitist, insulting, and denigrating. If those aren't the elements of an inflammatory post, I don't know what is (and I do know what is!). By choosing such loaded phrases, you clearly show that you have no sincere interest in learning why an experienced trad climber would want to switch to sport climbing (even though many have, and haven't looked back for a second). N00bs like you forget that sport climbing grew out of trad climbing, just as "trad" climbing grew out of mountaineering. In both cases, elements of risk and inconvenience were stripped away to facilitate focus on a valued subset of skills.

Enough said. This is starting to become a more serious, thoughtful reply than your insolent posts deserve; but, who knows, perhaps you'll think about it anyway.

Maybe we'll see you out at New Jack this season. I'll be the "washed up old-timer" working the 13a with the crux death clip at the fourth bolt because someone forgot that sport climbs are supposed to only have "3-foot runouts." You?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 17, 2009, 2:52 AM)


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 5:25 AM
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Re: [oldsalt] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
oldsalt wrote:
jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

Agree with Jay on what. That your question should have been, "What are your thoughts in a fall when you rip gear?"

In that case, I don't know. I have only ripped gear once. Was very early in my leading when I shouldn't have been falling. I made a big mistake trusting gear before I knew how to place it or determine risk. I learned a lot that day. I don't remember thinking anything other than "oh, shit!" during the fall, but I thought a lot in the weeks following when I couldn't climb do to a badly spraigned ankle.

Josh

Josh


altelis


Sep 17, 2009, 5:56 AM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Thoughts During A Fall On Gear? [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
In reply to:
In reply to:
oldsalt wrote:
jt512 wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jt512 wrote:

Don't know. I've never had a piece fail free climbing.

Jay

Jay, that wasn't the question.

My point was that it should have been.

Jay

I'm with Jay on this one.

Agree with Jay on what. That your question should have been, "What are your thoughts in a fall when you rip gear?"

In that case, I don't know. I have only ripped gear once. Was very early in my leading when I shouldn't have been falling. I made a big mistake trusting gear before I knew how to place it or determine risk. I learned a lot that day. I don't remember thinking anything other than "oh, shit!" during the fall, but I thought a lot in the weeks following when I couldn't climb do to a badly spraigned ankle.

Josh

Josh

Josh, I would suggest you are STILL too inexperienced to be trad leading.................











































Clearly if you can't control your cheese-titting how can you even DREAM of trad leading? Tongue


Gmburns2000


Sep 17, 2009, 6:06 AM
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suprasoup wrote:
Last pitch of Second Coming on Muralla I'm presented with the usual four options. Which version do I wanna do today? Neither, lets just skip the cracks and climb the vertical face instead. The horizontal cracks dispersed along the length of the face were few and very far between but I knew that they were deep enough for solid tricam placements.
So off I go, chugging along placing equalized tricams in each horizontal I reach. Pretty sweet. I place my last equalized pieces (red and pinkie as usual) in preparation for the 40ish feet that can't be protected. I cruise the section and about 5ish feet from the bolted anchors I look up and a chipmunk plops on my face.Unsure Like any right minded idiot I grab it. With both hands. Frown
So here's the sequence of thoughts:
Seriously? There's a chipmunk on my face. Why does this shit always happen to me. Oh shit, I just grabbed it with both hands. Oh shit, I'm run out like crazy. And the last thought, OHHH SHITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

Here's a pic of the "horizontals" basically just seams where the grass and pines were growing out of.Laugh
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/94/93/106489493_large_cccec2.jpg[/image]
How massive that vertical head wall is.
[image]http://mountainproject.com/images/29/66/106512966_large_5f3334.jpg?1249921186[/image]

So Alvin the Chipmunk and I go for a "ride" the tricams hold and I'm caught 10ish feet before slamming into the ledge at the start of the pitch but poor Alvin kept goingFrown Sorry buddy, I really tried to hang on.

Supra

Thanks for starting my morning off good. Also, I needed a new keyboard and monitor anyway. Laugh


Gmburns2000


Sep 17, 2009, 6:11 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
blkela wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Bag11s wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

Is that why you turned to bolts?

I turned to sport climbing because I find it much more challenging than trad climbing.

In reply to:
I know plenty of guys cranking hard moves above placed gear.

Are you one of them? If not, speak for yourself.

In reply to:
You don't need shiny bolts overprotecting everything, just to pull hard.

This is a conversation I'm willing to have with someone like Angry, who's not just all talk. You, on the other hand, are just talking out of your ass, I suspect. I see no reason to have this conversation with you.

Jay

Way to not feel superior about climbing at all. I'm not such a shabby climber myself. And for the record, I'm not typically willing to talk about climbing hard with washed up old timers who have turned to clipping bolts. Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement. Maybe when I get old, I'll lose my stomach for more exciting climbing, switch to bolts, and lie to myself and everyone else on the interwebs as to why I switched.

23 years since the 1986 Great Debate!

Representing Sport- Christian Griffith, Alan Watts, and Todd Skinner
Representing Trad- John Bachar, Rob Robinson, and Ron Kauk
On Trial- Lynn Hill

Lynn Hill whose “ethics” on the first ascent of Vandals were questioned during the Great Debate by the provocative questioning of moderator Jim McCarthy, later summarized her thoughts- “The court found me guilty of hang dogging, but I didn’t feel guilty. I had found a logical way to push the levels of difficulty higher and I enjoyed the learning process.” Later that year, after being introduced to French sport climbing she appreciated that “Instead of worrying about risk, the climber could concentrate on pure difficulty.” Which “… didn’t make me reject the traditional values I had learned in America, but it intrigued me.” She went on to enjoy the great French limestone- the “perfect terrain on which to push the limits of difficulty in this gymnastic form of free climbing.”

Lynn seemed to have no problem freeing her mind. Many of the (really quite exceptional) climbers on that panel have since enjoyed years of enjoyment and success in both arenas. Not a lot of moralizing there.

Yep, Lynn Hill got it. So did her badass buddies Lechlinski, Gingery, Bruckman, Long, and many others, I'm sure. Comically, so many lesser climbers, as represented in this thread, did not. Trad is the only real climbing. Well, the rest of us are sure having a good time, and getting strong, faking it.

Jay

Wrong. The only real climbing is free soloing. There, you have nothing but your skill and ability to judge the rock.

Truly the purest expression of this sport.

As long as your not using chalk that is. Which would be like playing pocket pool during absolution. SPIRITUAL CRIMES!

Shoes. You forgot shoes. You're not supposed to wear shoes either. That's aid.


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:34 AM
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jt512 wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
More like, I've trad climbed for 20 years, including 10 years before I ever touched a sport climb; but unlike you, I don't feel morally superior about it.
Jay

It's ok Jay, not everyone has the stomach to keep trad climbing.

And not everyone can pull a hard enough move to find sport climbing interesting.

Jay

There's the rub and the truth as well.

So what I do is make sport climbs that interest me and I CAN pull baszzAtt!

Cuz I got skilz. Construction skilz, not climbingt skilz haha.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:40 AM
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I love it all.

That is all.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:43 AM
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No wait, there's MORE.

(and its FREEEEEEEEEEEE!)

I've had pieces pull during some lead falls over the years. Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Pro pulls and that is a fact.

Lastly - free trad at high grades is an awesome achievement.

REachieving that, after breaking several bones and tearing out soft tissue attachments.... that's something else entirely.

Its that something else entirely.... that reveals the absolute ridiculous nature of climbing. We risk our lives over STUPID ideals that mean nothing to anyone outside this sport.

In other words, we are willing (and do) risk our lives FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S RULES.

Rules for a sport that means NOTHING.

Put that in your grigris and smoke it. You risk your lives for NOTHING.

DMT


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 6:46 AM
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And because we risk our lives for nothing we are foced to invent reasons where none exist.

Think about that now....

we risk our lives for some else's rules. Yall sure as hell didn't invent them!

DMT


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 6:54 AM
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Cheestitting? I always say my name twice, in case you forgot the first time. Tongue


sungam


Sep 17, 2009, 6:55 AM
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bennydh wrote:
You just end up sounding like a jackass.
I just read that whole little back and foreward, and you're the only one acting or sounding like a jackass here.
Feel free to STFU, GTFO, and find someone who cares - cuz to be honest this debate really isn't worth worrying about, and if it was the majority of rc.com still wouldn't give a shit about you're self righteous wannabe-elitist views.


blueeyedclimber


Sep 17, 2009, 6:56 AM
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dingus wrote:
I've had pieces pull during some lead falls over the years. Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

DMT

This is Korect!


shockabuku


Sep 17, 2009, 7:08 AM
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

Have you heard the expression "the pot calling the kettle black"?


dingus


Sep 17, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Now now boys J can take care of himself. He doesn't need a pussy... POSSE! I meant POSSE of COURSE! He doesn't need a posse defending his precious honor.

DMT


Partner j_ung


Sep 17, 2009, 7:20 AM
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Apologies for an on-topic post.

It's not the thoughts during a fall that matter. It's what I'm thinking before a fall. If I'm climbing the way I should, a fall will at least be a moderate surprise and it'll be over before I have to time to process it. But if I'm climbing scared, as I often do, then the crap spinning round my brain bowl like corn chunks in a toilet are what get me -- and make it even more likely I will end up in the air. Those thoughts are not rational enough to warrant writing down.


Bag11s


Sep 17, 2009, 12:31 PM
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oldsalt wrote:
This weekend, I was about halfway up a T-Wall 5.easy trad lead when I got to experience my first such fall. My last piece was a medium nut slotted into a nice notch.

I was about 6 feet above and 6 feet to the right of two nuts placed in opposition. I hadn't like the way that the large hex was sitting, so I backed it up.

I did not double the medium nut. About 4 or 5 feet higher, my right foot slipped and I started to accelerate downward at 9.8 m/sec squared, minus much friction on my back, ankle, and elbow.

I slid far enough to realize that one or more pieces had blown. Now, the point of the post...

What thoughts have you had while "in transit?"

Mine were:

1. That last nut failed.
2. Will they all fail?
3. Will it hurt when I deck?

(Donna, you made a great catch! Don't second guess yourself.)

OK- Not so much on the thoughts I’ve had while whipping- but a few examples of what to avoid-
I’ll confess- climbing trad I’ve ripped gear in a fall- and on more than one occasion. The worst time I zippered three pieces from the bottom leaving two for the catch- yikes! I’ve also had the rope lift marginal gear out from below the topmost pieces which is distinctly disconcerting when you look down and see it sliding down the rope. I’ve also had the topmost (marginal) piece fail in a fall. I’ve also had a belayer standing back way too far from the climb’s base get pulled forward for a tumble when I fell, resulting in a pretty long whipper- he got banged up on that piece of idiocy. I’ve also (more than once) been the recipient of a hard catch on an overhang, and got banged up. I’ve also actually gotten injured falling with a lot of rope out on what seems like should have been a safe fall, but what with the winding route vector, rope stretch, and some belayer inattentiveness went for a bit longer ride than I should have, over a roof and hit the slab below- flipping my right foot upside down. I’ve also taken falls on all kinds of hardware, from small nuts and tcus to ¼” rusty buttonheads. I’ve also run out and or free soloed some scary and dangerous shit, successfully yet barely; with no bad consequences to report so far- some great trad routes have mandatory runouts.
Not all of this happened because I am a total dumbshit, but rather is a consequence of putting in a lot of mileage attempting hard-for-me stuff.
Nowadays, after sussing out the bottom of a route, and when concerned, I give my partner exact instructions on where to stand through my initial gear placements. I protect ever more opportunistically, set nuts with more conviction, extend runners, and generally am mindful to engineer the best system of protection I can interspersed with dealing with the demands of the climbing and making good forward progress.
I’ve also taken hundreds of whips on sport, some not so pretty. Even working a new project that has ridiculously hard climbing bolt to bolt it can take some guts to man up and get going, knowing that if you fail to make it through that cruxiness there will be a pretty jarring fall in store.


andersjr


Sep 17, 2009, 12:36 PM
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did i leave the toaster oven on?


tedtradman


Sep 17, 2009, 1:15 PM
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quite possibly the most entertaining thread of posts i have ever read. I hate when the piece pulls out after you carefully selected it and nestled it in nicely. Its worse when you finally place something after a long run out and it pulls out.

When I fall, my thoughts are always, shiiiit and then "wow, that was not so bad." Haha. The feeling I don't like is when you hanging on a piece and it starts walking.




Smoke em' if you got em!


suprasoup


Sep 17, 2009, 1:46 PM
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petsfed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
Although, I guess those 3 foot run outs between shiny bolts help ensure that you will enjoy retirement.

Thanks for proving once again that if you have to exaggerate to make a point, then you don't actually have one.

Jay

I thought it would drive the point into your thick skull. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

I understand perfectly. You cope with the fact you can't climb as hard as you like by denigrating sport climbing—and you actually think that's original.

Jay

You are an idiot. Try not to project your insecurities on me. I climb pretty hard, and I keep getting stronger. I'm not denigrating sport climbing as a means to cope for any lack of talent either.

Quit trying to be a mind reader like you quit trad climbing. You obviously have no idea what I think, and your projections aren't reality.

Just because you phrase something with authority, it doesn't mean its true; nor does it mean you understand it at all. You just end up sounding like a jackass.

No, sir you are an idiot. Stormeh started with the polite ribbing (which is actually a little ridiculous when you actually know Jay's personal climbing history, but that's a side issue) and then a few others, like you, elected to pursue the point.

Now fuck off, you elitist twat. The only people I ever hear slagging on sport climbing are either pros who got their panties in a bunch that the undeclared project they planned on headpointing got bolted, and people who haven't climbed enough to know that its all climbing.

I'm sorry you're so insecure that you feel the need to highlight your imagined superiority.

/climbs almost exclusively trad
//ashamed to call himself a "trad" climber because of the excess of asshats like you

Very very true.


rockandlice


Sep 18, 2009, 7:02 AM
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dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 7:25 AM
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rockandlice wrote:
dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.

This is a truly tired debate. How people keep ending up arguing it is beyond me. It seems to start off innocently enough, with a dig here and a witty comeback there, but then somebody feels like he got disrespected, and all of the sudden sport climbers are pussies.

It looks like there are roughly 400 other threads on this site about how trad climbers are elitist cunts and how sport climbing is for expecting mothers. Why anyone feels the need to denigrate another expression of the same sport is hard to fathom. It's also hard to fathom why anyone would feel the need to crudely defend their chosen expression from the ignorant insults on an interwebz wank board. Juvenile stuff. End of rant!

Also of note, trad climbers have small penises.

(To the OP: nothing runs through my head during the fall. Right before the fall I usually think to myself, well, I've done the best I can to protect the climb, so I might as well relax. I then find I'm able to accept my fate.)


dingus


Sep 18, 2009, 7:29 AM
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Its just the Dozens, brother. Another version of 'yer momma.'

You don't have to play but you're not going to stop them/us from doing it either.


Taint no thing.

Cheers!
DMT


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 8:05 AM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
rockandlice wrote:
dingus wrote:
Anyone who pretends that pulling perfectly placed trad gear isn't a distinct and even likely possibility SHOULD stick to bolts.

Just about one of the ony comments that is %100 true in this thread.

This is a truly tired debate. How people keep ending up arguing it is beyond me. It seems to start off innocently enough, with a dig here and a witty comeback there, but then somebody feels like he got disrespected, and all of the sudden sport climbers are pussies.

It looks like there are roughly 400 other threads on this site about how trad climbers are elitist cunts and how sport climbing is for expecting mothers.
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 8:11 AM
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sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 8:22 AM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...


IsayAutumn


Sep 18, 2009, 8:24 AM
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sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU


(This post was edited by IsayAutumn on Sep 18, 2009, 8:27 AM)


LostinMaine


Sep 18, 2009, 12:30 PM
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I fell recently on a mega classic 5.6 line at the gunks... my foot slipped on something suspicious. The only thought I had as I was swinging under the roof was "who shit on the GT ledge." It must have been a serious accident...


peon


Sep 18, 2009, 1:04 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU


A little touchy today? I wonder who pissed in our Cheerios this morning. Tongue


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 1:31 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
IsayAutumn wrote:
sungam wrote:
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Reread it, and see if you can actually catch what dingus and rocknlice are saying.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on what those two were saying. The FAIL was me replying to rockandice instead of jt512 and bennydh, or whoever else was stirring up a shit storm.

And hey...I read at a 4th grade level, buddy. More than enough to float to the top in this pond.
Next time try note to quote the people you're not talking to...

Huh? What? Huh? STFU
Yes, sorry. I didn't mean "note" as in "I'll leave you a note", I meant "not" as in "you're not funny, cool, or clever."


bandycoot


Sep 18, 2009, 3:06 PM
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I've had quite a few scary falls on gear. A few of them have pulled gear. Once in Arapiles, I had built a super bomber belay off a single large nut to start a route that you walk into from the side in the middle of a short cliff. I plugged a perfect #3 metolius in a parallel crack from the ground. On my 2nd attempt on the line, I pulled and the cam didn't even really slow me down. Quite scary. Once I felt that thing pop, it was more visceral than a conscious thought, but I thought I was done. Luckily, my belayer caught the near factor 2 fall since she had wrapped the line around her hand and the single nut belay held. Kinda sucks when you're falling through the air and think you're going to shatter on the ground 30-40' below... Pretty awesome when you don't.

Another time, I pulled a #2 Metolius and a piton in a 35' fall on Romantic Warrior's first 5.12a pitch. That was exciting. Didn't know the fall was coming, and when I just kept falling and falling it was pretty freaky. I knew the cam was shit, but the piton had held my friend somewhat recently on the same fall. I guess I was fatter. I remember realizing the gear was failing, but not being too concerned because the fall was clean. A 2nd piton held.

I once fell unexpectedly trying to climb a bigwall in Malaysia. I had a 0.5 camalot in far below because the bolt was rusted that protected the crux. I pulled the crux roof of the pitch, and went to lean back and flick the rope out from under the roof. I was holding a large block that looked attached to the wall but it wasn't apparently. I remember having this sinking feeling in my stomach all of a sudden and my "spidey sense" told me something was wrong. My hand was still on the block, but I was moving. There was a thought of "Oh FUCK this is gonna be a big one!" I just relaxed and the rope caught me about 40' below and I swung into a tree demolishing some almost wrist sized branches. The really sickening feeling came when I realized all that stuff from branches to rocks were slamming down around my GF belaying below. I pulled myself back up the rope and the camalot had slid about 8" out of the crack and was holding me with two lobes. It was almost a REALLY REALLY big fall... Smile

Biggest fall and the most potentially traumatic was actually sport climbing. No gear pull, but blowing a clip plus a belayer error resulted in a 70' head first whistler. I remember there was a ledge about 50' below where I fell. My first thought was "Oh this is gonna suck!" Next thought, "Why haven't I stopped yet." I passed the ledge 50' below and realized it and thought, "Belay failed, I'm dead..." Suddenly I was hanging completely inverted. I grabbed the rope, flipped myself happy as hell on the inside to be alive, turned to my belayer and said calmly, "That is NEVER going to happen again, right?" Half the people at the crag went home immediately after, traumatized. I remember one guy saying, "I've never heard the sound of a human body flying through the air again." I finished the route, refusing to let it get to me. Repeating that clip was one of the scariest things I've ever done climbing, but I finished and lowered...

Jung, your post is awesome. What you think about before you fall is way important...

Josh


sungam


Sep 18, 2009, 3:16 PM
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bandycoot wrote:
I once fell unexpectedly trying to climb a bigwall in Malaysia. I had a 0.5 camalot in far below because the bolt was rusted that protected the crux. I pulled the crux roof of the pitch, and went to lean back and flick the rope out from under the roof. I was holding a large block that looked attached to the wall but it wasn't apparently. I remember having this sinking feeling in my stomach all of a sudden and my "spidey sense" told me something was wrong. My hand was still on the block, but I was moving. There was a thought of "Oh FUCK this is gonna be a big one!" I just relaxed and the rope caught me about 40' below and I swung into a tree demolishing some almost wrist sized branches. The really sickening feeling came when I realized all that stuff from branches to rocks were slamming down around my GF belaying below. I pulled myself back up the rope and the camalot had slid about 8" out of the crack and was holding me with two lobes. It was almost a REALLY REALLY big fall... Smile

Biggest fall and the most potentially traumatic was actually sport climbing. No gear pull, but blowing a clip plus a belayer error resulted in a 70' head first whistler. I remember there was a ledge about 50' below where I fell. My first thought was "Oh this is gonna suck!" Next thought, "Why haven't I stopped yet." I passed the ledge 50' below and realized it and thought, "Belay failed, I'm dead..." Suddenly I was hanging completely inverted. I grabbed the rope, flipped myself happy as hell on the inside to be alive, turned to my belayer and said calmly, "That is NEVER going to happen again, right?" Half the people at the crag went home immediately after, traumatized. I remember one guy saying, "I've never heard the sound of a human body flying through the air again." I finished the route, refusing to let it get to me. Repeating that clip was one of the scariest things I've ever done climbing, but I finished and lowered...
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...


bandycoot


Sep 18, 2009, 3:27 PM
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sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.


suprasoup


Sep 18, 2009, 3:50 PM
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bandycoot wrote:
sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.

The next time I get my ass kicked by a cougar I'll remember what you saidCrazy






wonderwoman


Sep 18, 2009, 7:11 PM
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Holy crap! That's scarier than any whipper!


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 1:28 AM
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bandycoot wrote:
sungam wrote:
*gulp*
Sometimes it's worth being the one with the shitty uninteresting stories...

My friend taught me to ask the question, "What would be the more adventurous option?" I'll always prefer to have the more interesting story.
Yeah, I generally go for the more adventurous option, but I've certainly never taken any 70' nosedives - and I was just saying that I'm fine with not having that story.
Malaysian bigwall sounds like a blast, though. Was that perhaps the Tioman horns? I spent a week snorkeling around there with my school thinking about climbing that thing.


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 1:37 AM
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Did you fight it off or did it just rough you up and leave?


bandycoot


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Damn, I'm impressed! It was, in fact, the Dragon's Horns on Tioman Island. I tried to climb it back in mid 2008. My buddy Scotty, actually the SAME GUY who taught me to ask, "What would be the more adventurous option," is the first ascentionist. Anyways, I went down there to climb it and it turns out that a mixture of factors played into a lack of safety. The bolts weren't stainless, the proximity to the ocean had its effect, and in sections something was seeping out of the rock that bolts on a few years old had hangers partially dissolved. Since higher up the route there were sections that were aided on the FA and were only bolt protected, gear apparently liked to slide in the cracks due to the crap seeping out of the rock, and the only medium rock quality, I decided to call it day. I finished the pitch and rapped the route from about 3-4 pitches up. Someone really should head back up there with the same titanium glue-ins found in Thailand. I'm sure it'll be an amazing route once that has happened.

Josh


brianinslc


Sep 19, 2009, 8:31 AM
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dingus wrote:
Pro pulls and that is a fact.

Especially if you range beyond paint by numbers type stuff...

I've had a few memorable "thoughts" whilst in mid flight.

Was doing a fairly runout steep slab corner climb in the west desert of Utah. Way up there, had a bolt clipped (only one on the route) and the book I was in was opening up, and, pro was sketchy at best. I placed a rattly #6 HB as "pyche" pro, but, knew it was poor but also knew there was no reason not to place it as saving it for higher up wasn't really needed. I could see this really good shallow ledge, and, I knew if I got to it, I'd be money. Right below it, I popped off, no warning. I guess the thought, more of a feeling maybe, was initially curiosity to see if that rattly HB was going to hold. As it came bubblin' by, it didn't, and I went for the 50 footer onto the bolt (only thing between me and the ground). Got hurt, ER, surgery, yada yada...

Took another real long fall on thin aid, trying to do a thin crack "clean" and when I popped off, I knew I was going to blow pieces. Which, is the only thing I kinda thought when I fell. I blew the skin off my knuckle going past one of them homemade aluminum bolt hangers. The bolt pulled but the next one down caught me, only a few feet from the ground. Didn't really have any thoughts about that at the time, but, the next day I really thought back hard on it.

Was up high in Zion, on a FA. Rock was crappy (duh) and I'd placed a bolt that didn't really set, but, was on thin terrain and it was better'n nothing. So, I just climbed past it, going for a shallow corner crack where I hoped I'd get fairly good gear. After a few feet, placed an "ok" TCU and made a couple moves up the shalllow corner. Rock was soft and I didn't realize I'd picked up some grit/dirt on the bottom of my shoe. I leaned over to a fairly good foothold on a lower angle slab, and, I immediately popped off. Low angle enough that I had time to think about that TCU and the crappy bolt below it. Not deep thoughts, just, uhh, come on, hold. Darn thing rode the crack down for about a foot and a half and held. I frickin' couldn't believe it. Dusted my foot off and sent the rest of the pitch, and, we climbed another 9 more that day, on super sketchy terrain.

Took a hard daisy chain fall onto a piece that I thought would pop for sure, but, didn't. At the time, all I thought was, "oh feck" (I'd back cleaned forever). Happiness ensued.

I hate falling. I'm probably more "thoughtful" when it comes to that commitment of moving up or bailing at a crappy placement. No longer bulletproof I suppose. It's kinda the essence of that kind of climbing, though, pulling it off, or, bumming 'cause I didn't climb up and through (but glad to be in one piece).

Yeah, weird game we play, all this risk for some reward.

-Brian in SLC


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 8:57 AM
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bandycoot wrote:
Damn, I'm impressed! It was, in fact, the Dragon's Horns on Tioman Island. I tried to climb it back in mid 2008. My buddy Scotty, actually the SAME GUY who taught me to ask, "What would be the more adventurous option," is the first ascentionist. Anyways, I went down there to climb it and it turns out that a mixture of factors played into a lack of safety. The bolts weren't stainless, the proximity to the ocean had its effect, and in sections something was seeping out of the rock that bolts on a few years old had hangers partially dissolved. Since higher up the route there were sections that were aided on the FA and were only bolt protected, gear apparently liked to slide in the cracks due to the crap seeping out of the rock, and the only medium rock quality, I decided to call it day. I finished the pitch and rapped the route from about 3-4 pitches up. Someone really should head back up there with the same titanium glue-ins found in Thailand. I'm sure it'll be an amazing route once that has happened.

Josh
If I find myself with some spare money... the ex-airforce base in singapore does run very cheap flights...
I'm lead to believe that the horns on Tioman are likely the only wall worthy of the name bigwall in Malaysia. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Looks SWWEEEETTTT though.


suprasoup


Sep 19, 2009, 12:05 PM
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sungam wrote:
Did you fight it off or did it just rough you up and leave?

I'm not sure if a cougar on the prowl ever just roughs you up and then leaves (unless it's the female "cougar" of courseSly)

So here's the scenario:

Just finished a terrifying climb on the Muralla and heading back to my car. Iphone in hand I'm taking pics as usual while listening to DJ Doboy Vocal Edition 10. You ever get that feeling when someone or something is following you?Unsure

I turn around and sure enough there's "a god damn cougar on the trail" (gotta love Talledega Nights sometimesSmile)

Finger on the shutter my iphones just snapping pics away as this massive, up to my chest, predator is sizing me up.
So I'm backing away slowly as this thing is approaching. I already knew in the back of my mind that it was gonna attack. How do I know? Believe me, I know. They can make a whole new reality show called, "When Animals Attack Supra" and it would run for more than one season.Frown
Confirmation came when it raised it's hackles. That's when I raised my trusty poop stickFrownFrown

The few times where I was thanking my lucky stars that I pick up other peoples "shit", literally in this case.

Hauled that bad boy up 4 pitches to dispose of itCrazy Fortunately if I hadn't I wouldn't have had that stick.

So here's the options:
1. Run like a coward and die. Sorry, I might be able to run <10 sec 100m's but that ain't shit compared to a cougar.Frown
2. Cower and whimper like a wuss and die. As is my usual response in any dangerous situation.FrownFrown
3. Fight and die. Yeah cause it's entirely feasible that a 5' 6" 160lb asian dude can take down 6 ft, 200+ lbs of teeth and clawsFrownFrownFrown

So Death rushes at me and I drop my Iphone:


Battle Royale ensues as the cougar and I are locked in mortal combat for about 10ish minutes (I was listening to Doboy so I have a rough idea of the passage of time)

Don't ask what happened during that time cause I can't remember jack. Somehow I managed to beat it back and it high tails it outta there. Angelic Bruised and battered, but surprisingly not disemboweled or missing any limbs I do the same.
Supra, once again, lives to see another sunset Smile


Moral of the story: Don't be a dumbass like me. YOU CAN'T win against a cougar UNLESS you're CURT (Yup, he's a badass, you're not. Seriously. Laugh)


(This post was edited by suprasoup on Sep 23, 2009, 11:19 AM)


sungam


Sep 19, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Good story. I like the idea of background music during a battle, and you could do far worse then DJ Doboy (*makes note to google that later*).
suprasoup wrote:
Moral of the story: Don't be a dumbass like me. YOU CAN'T win against a cougar UNLESS you're CURT (Yup, he's a badass, you're not. Seriously. Laugh)
Hmmm, I never heard that story of Curt's. Hopefully he'll show up and tell? I like this whole "Know Curt and get to survive vicious animal attacks" theory, though.


suprasoup


Sep 19, 2009, 2:38 PM
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sungam wrote:
Good story. I like the idea of background music during a battle, and you could do far worse then DJ Doboy (*makes note to google that later*)
.

Was really hoping actually to have "Eye of the Tiger" running in the background.

suprasoup wrote:
Moral of the story: Don't be a dumbass like me. YOU CAN'T win against a cougar UNLESS you're CURT (Yup, he's a badass, you're not. Seriously. Laugh)

sungam wrote:
Hmmm, I never heard that story of Curt's. Hopefully he'll show up and tell? I like this whole "Know Curt and get to survive vicious animal attacks" theory, though.

Curt's a freakin' legend man. A cougar ain't nothing. I heard he took down a saber tooth tiger back in the day...just sayinWink


tradrenn


Sep 19, 2009, 6:31 PM
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Thank you for sharing this story.

You're the man.

I hope never to run into them in Squamish.

V.


hafilax


Sep 19, 2009, 9:59 PM
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tradrenn wrote:
Thank you for sharing this story.

You're the man.

I hope never to run into them in Squamish.

V.
You mean like this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurvBPV_8YU


moose_droppings


Sep 19, 2009, 10:50 PM
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suprasoup wrote:
Battle Royale ensues as the cougar and I are locked in mortal combat for about 10ish minutes (I was listening to Doboy so I have rough idea of the passage of time)

Seriously, 10 minutes??

That's got to be a world record amount of attack time there.
And you weren't ripped to ribbons??

Really?
Wow.

Freaking amazing your alive.


suprasoup


Sep 19, 2009, 11:28 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
suprasoup wrote:
Battle Royale ensues as the cougar and I are locked in mortal combat for about 10ish minutes (I was listening to Doboy so I have rough idea of the passage of time)

Seriously, 10 minutes??

That's got to be a world record amount of attack time there.
And you weren't ripped to ribbons??

Really?
Wow.

Freaking amazing your alive.

I haven't decided whether I'm extremely lucky or unlucky (if you haven't read my earlier post read it. You'll understand). Either someone upstairs really likes me or is amused enough at my antics to keep my
dumb ass around.

Edit: Don't forget most people would pick option #1 or #2. Believe me I wanted to. Only ass clowns like me pick door #3.Crazy


(This post was edited by suprasoup on Sep 20, 2009, 12:10 AM)


tradrenn


Sep 20, 2009, 11:29 AM
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hafilax wrote:
tradrenn wrote:
Thank you for sharing this story.

You're the man.

I hope never to run into them in Squamish.

V.
You mean like this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EurvBPV_8YU

Yes, like this one.


dr_feelgood


Sep 22, 2009, 2:19 AM
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hope this holds is usually my thought.


IsayAutumn


Sep 22, 2009, 6:33 AM
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Sorry, sungam. That was a dick post. I was in a bad mood.


sungam


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IsayAutumn wrote:
Sorry, sungam. That was a dick post. I was in a bad mood.
Meh. It happens.


Partner j_ung


Sep 23, 2009, 11:08 AM
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suprasoup wrote:
<Insane cougar story with photos to prove it...>

Surely, the iPhone has an app for that. Tongue


suprasoup


Sep 23, 2009, 11:14 AM
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j_ung wrote:
suprasoup wrote:
<Insane cougar story with photos to prove it...>

Surely, the iPhone has an app for that. Tongue

Nope. it's Rated R material so Apple took it off ITunes.Laugh


unrest


Sep 23, 2009, 12:03 PM
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suprasoup wrote:
So here's the scenario:

Just finished a terrifying climb on the Muralla and heading back to my car. Iphone in hand I'm taking pics as usual while listening to DJ Doboy Vocal Edition 10. You ever get that feeling when someone or something is following you?

This is kind of funny. I climb roped-solo a ton. That's about 95% of my climbing is roped solo and I enjoy the hell out of it. But because of your story here and a few others I carry a .40 caliber with 14 hollow-point rounds (one in the chamber) in a shoulder holster where I can get it quick. It's hard to spot under my gear sling so people haven't ever seen it. I've got a concealed carry and years of experience. I never hit a trail or a climb without out on my body. The grips are a bit scratched as on some climbs it scrapes pretty close to the rocks but being a Sig Sauer it can take it.

After reading this I'm not ever going out again without it.

I feel kind of like a gumby toting a Sig but not now. No way. A .40 caliber round fired in the air would have changed this outcome and if it hadn't one fired into hair would have. I also have a very stout climbing stick that I never leave home so by-and-large I am protected.

Supra your stories are amazing. Time for a book. Pepsi bottles, chipmunks and cougars. Dude when it comes to Karma if I were you I'd ask for a refund or something.

Thanks for the laughs and for validating that I'm not as dumb as I thought for faithfully toting my .40 day after day and climb after climb.

SCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARY!!!


cchas


Sep 25, 2009, 8:04 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:

Mine is easy

1- I do not climb so that solve a lot of problems
2- when I do, ohh not again
3- yorrrgoona die
4-you will be in I&A by 6 PM
5-DO NOT FALL , DO NOT DIE AND DO NOT LET THEM READ AND analyze YOUR Fuc*up IN RC
[IMG]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1383/n00bq.jpg[/IMG]



Have a safe climb

Majid,

That is an awesome picture.......


Kartessa


Jan 30, 2012, 9:14 PM
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Someone on another forum posted up a video of you taking on the cougar:

See 1:25
http://www.youtube.com/...ture=player_embedded


psecody


Feb 7, 2012, 6:49 AM
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This topic is really interesting, I fell a couple years ago (not climbing related) from about 25' and on the way down clearly remember coming to terms with my death and kind of being at peace with it before I hit the ground, rolled 15' then stopped only breaking my ankle and walking away from it. It all seemed to happen in slow motion and I remember it very vividly. Then about a year later stumbleupon took me to an article where they tried to see why time seems to slow down in scary situations. I can't remember exactly where I read it but I think it was this article:http://www.plosone.org/...journal.pone.0001295

Anyway I just thought that was interesting. When I fall climbing my thought is usually "what happens happens"


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